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Need Help Diagnosing PC Issues
posted in Hardware
1
#1
0 Frags +

I've been dealing with a really unpredictable crashing problem on my tower that's kept the poor thing sidelined for the better part of a year. The symptoms seem to change from day-to-day, and the exact cause is something that several different PC triage groups can't pinpoint. The crashes occur as follows:

  • In some cases, the entire computer will operate perfectly fine, running games, browsers, music, and even streaming without a problem - until I shut it down, where the following conditions will occur on the next startup. (This case is very rare)
  • After boot, the system will run through startup tasks and make it through 15 minutes of internet or gaming before it involuntarily restarts - not a hard shutdown, just rebooting from bios - without any sort of BSOD in-between. When this happens, the system will be stuck in a perpetual loop of booting, operating for 5-15 minutes, then soft-restarting until I shut it down myself. (This occurs most often)
  • Occasionally, Windows 7 will begin its boot cycle only to hang infinitely on the "Starting Windows" screen. This can happen following a fresh startup or after several reboots of the previous condition. This one renders the computer completely inoperable, and the only short-term fix I have for this one is to shut it down and wait an indefinite amount of time. (This is also rare, but occurs more often than the first condition)

SPECS:

  • Processor: Intel Quad Core i5 Q9450 2.66Ghz
  • Memory: 6GB DDR2
  • GPU: GeForce GTX 460 (a later addition to the system that was added a year before the crashes started)
  • Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-EP35C-DS3R
  • Power Supply: Seasonic 600W

It's been suggested that the problem could be corrupt Windows 7 files, corrupt RAM, overloading the power supply, overheating, and even a faulty motherboard. However, I'd rather not rebuild the entirety of the tower from the ground up if most of the system is and has been operating fine, especially if I'm strapped for cash. If anyone knows or can suggest a fix, I'd appreciate the help.

I've been dealing with a really unpredictable crashing problem on my tower that's kept the poor thing sidelined for the better part of a year. The symptoms seem to change from day-to-day, and the exact cause is something that several different PC triage groups can't pinpoint. The crashes occur as follows:

[list]
[*] In some cases, the entire computer will operate perfectly fine, running games, browsers, music, and even streaming without a problem - [i]until[/i] I shut it down, where the following conditions will occur on the next startup. (This case is very rare)
[*] After boot, the system will run through startup tasks and make it through 15 minutes of internet or gaming before it involuntarily restarts - not a hard shutdown, just rebooting from bios - without any sort of BSOD in-between. When this happens, the system will be stuck in a perpetual loop of booting, operating for 5-15 minutes, then soft-restarting until I shut it down myself. (This occurs most often)
[*] Occasionally, Windows 7 will begin its boot cycle only to hang infinitely on the "Starting Windows" screen. This can happen following a fresh startup or after several reboots of the previous condition. This one renders the computer completely inoperable, and the only short-term fix I have for this one is to shut it down and wait an indefinite amount of time. (This is also rare, but occurs more often than the first condition)
[/list]

SPECS:
[list]
[*] Processor: Intel Quad Core i5 Q9450 2.66Ghz
[*] Memory: 6GB DDR2
[*] GPU: GeForce GTX 460 (a later addition to the system that was added a year before the crashes started)
[*] Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-EP35C-DS3R
[*] Power Supply: Seasonic 600W
[/list]

It's been suggested that the problem could be corrupt Windows 7 files, corrupt RAM, overloading the power supply, overheating, and even a faulty motherboard. However, I'd rather not rebuild the entirety of the tower from the ground up if most of the system is and has been operating fine, especially if I'm strapped for cash. If anyone knows or can suggest a fix, I'd appreciate the help.
2
#2
0 Frags +

I mean you've kinda gotta go through all the individual issues. Have you tried running any ram/hdd stress tests or anything like that?

something like this
https://www.memtest86.com/

I mean you've kinda gotta go through all the individual issues. Have you tried running any ram/hdd stress tests or anything like that?

something like this
https://www.memtest86.com/
3
#3
0 Frags +

Sounds like the mobo is on its way out.

Sounds like the mobo is on its way out.
4
#4
-12 Frags +

looks like colon cancer tbh

looks like colon cancer tbh
5
#5
-2 Frags +

ur a colon cancer go irritate elsewhere dumbhead dumbass

ur a colon cancer go irritate elsewhere dumbhead dumbass
6
#6
0 Frags +
Thundersn0wHave you tried running any ram/hdd stress tests or anything like that?

if i can get the poor thing running long enough to pull this off, i certainly will

ScrewballSounds like the mobo is on its way out.

i was hoping this wasnt the case, especially since that's looking like the most expensive repair of whats been suggested

though the last time the third scenario happened it set off gigabyte's light codes, i just never got a chance to figure out which was setting off

[quote=Thundersn0w]Have you tried running any ram/hdd stress tests or anything like that? [/quote]
if i can get the poor thing running long enough to pull this off, i certainly will

[quote=Screwball]Sounds like the mobo is on its way out.[/quote]
i was hoping this wasnt the case, especially since that's looking like the most expensive repair of whats been suggested

though the last time the third scenario happened it set off gigabyte's light codes, i just never got a chance to figure out which was setting off
7
#7
RGB LAN
1 Frags +

You can try to check the Event Viewer to see if there's anything that stands out just before your computer randomly restarts.

Don't totally assume that it's the motherboard (or any one specific thing). It really could be a handful of possibilities. Easiest thing you can try is to remove a stick of RAM and see if it still happens. If it does, put the RAM back and take out a different stick, etc. Bad RAM can cause strange shit to happen.

Theoretically, you could test to see if it's your hard drive by creating a bootable standalone image of Windows on a flash drive. I use it a decent amount at my job and it's pretty awesome. I can help you with this if you wanna add me on Steam.

You can try to check the Event Viewer to see if there's anything that stands out just before your computer randomly restarts.

Don't totally assume that it's the motherboard (or any one specific thing). It really could be a handful of possibilities. Easiest thing you can try is to remove a stick of RAM and see if it still happens. If it does, put the RAM back and take out a different stick, etc. Bad RAM can cause strange shit to happen.

Theoretically, you could test to see if it's your hard drive by creating a bootable standalone image of Windows on a flash drive. I use it a decent amount at my job and it's pretty awesome. I can help you with this if you wanna add me on Steam.
8
#8
0 Frags +

just test everything.. process of elimination. that's how you fix a computer

-reinstall windows. that eliminates any software issues/virus etc. the usb boot is a great idea because it also eliminates your hard drive from the list of things it could be.
-test each stick of ram individually
-monitor temps

try those first since they are free

after that you have psu, mobo, gpu, cpu.

gpu unlikely the problem but its easy to test using onboard gfx or another card, cpu very unlikely its usually overheating to worry about here or builder error.
psu has a decent chance of being it, if you can try it with another psu. and the mobo which is last resort to me because its a pain to rebuild your system.. but maybe its configured wrong. or since its a pretty old pc you can get one dirt cheap

If I had to guess, your processor is overheating as those quad cores run hot and you probly didnt change thermal paste in 10 years, but that is literally a guess.

just test everything.. process of elimination. that's how you fix a computer

-reinstall windows. that eliminates any software issues/virus etc. the usb boot is a great idea because it also eliminates your hard drive from the list of things it could be.
-test each stick of ram individually
-monitor temps

try those first since they are free

after that you have psu, mobo, gpu, cpu.

gpu unlikely the problem but its easy to test using onboard gfx or another card, cpu very unlikely its usually overheating to worry about here or builder error.
psu has a decent chance of being it, if you can try it with another psu. and the mobo which is last resort to me because its a pain to rebuild your system.. but maybe its configured wrong. or since its a pretty old pc you can get one dirt cheap

If I had to guess, your processor is overheating as those quad cores run hot and you probly didnt change thermal paste in 10 years, but that is literally a guess.
9
#9
0 Frags +

This is probably not the case, but it's worth telling you because I dealt with the same thing and couldn't find any help/suggestions for it online.

Could if be you have a faulty power button? My PC would randomly shut-down or restart because the power button was faulty such that it would activate without actually being pressed.
Disconnect the power button from the motherboard and find a way to switch on the PC (I have to switch mine on by switching off the power supply and switching it back on after 3 minutes). See if the problem still occurs.

Again though, this is such a rare issue that it most probably isn't the case...

This is probably not the case, but it's worth telling you because I dealt with the same thing and couldn't find any help/suggestions for it online.

Could if be you have a faulty power button? My PC would randomly shut-down or restart because the power button was faulty such that it would activate without actually being pressed.
Disconnect the power button from the motherboard and find a way to switch on the PC (I have to switch mine on by switching off the power supply and switching it back on after 3 minutes). See if the problem still occurs.

Again though, this is such a rare issue that it most probably isn't the case...
10
#10
2 Frags +

Check HDD and RAM first. If the HDD keeps corrupting data but the RAM is fine it would explain why it struggles only during boot.

Next reinstall windows. At this point it's probably not in great shape anyway.

GPU is not that likely, but do you use the onboard GPU or a different GPU if you can, just to be sure.

PSU is extremely unlikely. Without a lot of load on the GPU there's no way to overload it and it can't cause any soft reboots. The PSU can only cause a shutdown by cutting the power and even if the mobo was detecting problems with the voltage and causing the shutdown no sane protection mechanism would reboot immediately after detecting a PSU failure. The only way it could be the PSU is if it's actually a hard shutdown and the mobo is set to reboot after a power loss. Check the BIOS if there's an option set for that.
Same with the power button, that should be a hard shutdown as well.

The parts are fairly old so it could very well be the mobo or even the CPU, but check the rest first because that is easier. If you can rule out HDD, RAM, GPU and windows then you can deal with the hassle of either diagnosing a mobo/CPU failure without swapping or finding a replacement mobo/CPU 10 years after they've reached EOL.
Overheating seems unlikely since that would be more common during load, not during boot, but you should be reapplying thermal paste every couple years anyway, so do that if you've got some lying around.

Check HDD and RAM first. If the HDD keeps corrupting data but the RAM is fine it would explain why it struggles only during boot.

Next reinstall windows. At this point it's probably not in great shape anyway.

GPU is not that likely, but do you use the onboard GPU or a different GPU if you can, just to be sure.

PSU is extremely unlikely. Without a lot of load on the GPU there's no way to overload it and it can't cause any soft reboots. The PSU can only cause a shutdown by cutting the power and even if the mobo was detecting problems with the voltage and causing the shutdown no sane protection mechanism would reboot immediately after detecting a PSU failure. The only way it could be the PSU is if it's actually a hard shutdown and the mobo is set to reboot after a power loss. Check the BIOS if there's an option set for that.
Same with the power button, that should be a hard shutdown as well.

The parts are fairly old so it could very well be the mobo or even the CPU, but check the rest first because that is easier. If you can rule out HDD, RAM, GPU and windows then you can deal with the hassle of either diagnosing a mobo/CPU failure without swapping or finding a replacement mobo/CPU 10 years after they've reached EOL.
Overheating seems unlikely since that would be more common during load, not during boot, but you should be reapplying thermal paste every couple years anyway, so do that if you've got some lying around.
11
#11
0 Frags +

Did anything interesting happen? Did it explode?

Did anything interesting happen? Did it explode?
12
#12
0 Frags +

I got a ton of feedback from this thread, and I intend to put it all to practice, but given the "remove part, boot, wait for machine to crash" trial-and-error I'll be working with for many of the suggestions, I'll be looking for my next free day to make computer repair an all-day event.

I'm also on vacation until the 12th at the latest, so I can't try much for the time being.

I got a ton of feedback from this thread, and I intend to put it all to practice, but given the "remove part, boot, wait for machine to crash" trial-and-error I'll be working with for many of the suggestions, I'll be looking for my next free day to make computer repair an all-day event.

I'm also on vacation until the 12th at the latest, so I can't try much for the time being.
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