BRING BACK pl_waste!!
We seriously need more koth and a/d maps.
posted in
TF2 General Discussion
THEBILLDOZERBRING BACK pl_waste!!
Isn't pl_waste basically 5cp, except that you have to sit on a cart so you can't play with the flow?
[quote=THEBILLDOZER]BRING BACK pl_waste!![/quote]
Isn't pl_waste basically 5cp, except that you have to sit on a cart so you can't play with the flow?
Isn't pl_waste basically 5cp, except that you have to sit on a cart so you can't play with the flow?
Raptor00XTHEBILLDOZERBRING BACK pl_waste!!
Isn't pl_waste basically 5cp, except that you have to sit on a cart so you can't play with the flow?
ive never actually played a game on pl waste
[quote=Raptor00X][quote=THEBILLDOZER]BRING BACK pl_waste!![/quote]
Isn't pl_waste basically 5cp, except that you have to sit on a cart so you can't play with the flow?[/quote]
ive never actually played a game on pl waste
Isn't pl_waste basically 5cp, except that you have to sit on a cart so you can't play with the flow?[/quote]
ive never actually played a game on pl waste
faggetMy guess was correct, you have 1k hours in the game and your comp experience is faceit and 10 games of tf2c(4 games of 6s), so please don't act like you know what you are talking about.
Your name speaks for you.
[quote=fagget]My guess was correct, you have 1k hours in the game and your comp experience is faceit and 10 games of tf2c(4 games of 6s), so please don't act like you know what you are talking about.[/quote]
Your name speaks for you.
Your name speaks for you.
Caeli-product +bagel
-process +gpit/edifice
remove two of the best maps, add in one probably good map and one widely disliked map???????
remove granary. alternatively, remove every wall on the map
[quote=Caeli]-product +bagel
-process +gpit/edifice[/quote]
remove two of the best maps, add in one probably good map and one widely disliked map???????
remove granary. alternatively, remove every wall on the map
-process +gpit/edifice[/quote]
remove two of the best maps, add in one probably good map and one widely disliked map???????
remove granary. alternatively, remove every wall on the map
Collaide-gran -reckoner +bagel +logjam
Why does everyone hate reckoner so much? Lack of verticality?
[quote=Collaide]-gran -reckoner +bagel +logjam[/quote]
Why does everyone hate reckoner so much? Lack of verticality?
Why does everyone hate reckoner so much? Lack of verticality?
MenachemCaeli-product +bagel
-process +gpit/edifice
remove two of the best maps, add in one probably good map and one widely disliked map???????
remove granary. alternatively, remove every wall on the map
two of the best maps? might be in NA. In EU I can't think of a single person that likes product and isn't a sniper main. Nobody wants to scrim on it.
People dislike granary because you have to play it differently and it doesn't have a ''spire'' (just like sunshine, process...) and it's certainly not as stalematey as people usually say. In fact, no map has felt slow to me (except for reckoner last)
I got it, let's create a map where every point is a spire and additionally, scout-friendly with million props to jump on. Let's make soldier more useless than already is and let's play every map the same so I don't have to learn new ways on how to push a choke.
[quote=Menachem][quote=Caeli]-product +bagel
-process +gpit/edifice[/quote]
remove two of the best maps, add in one probably good map and one widely disliked map???????
remove granary. alternatively, remove every wall on the map[/quote]
two of the best maps? might be in NA. In EU I can't think of a single person that likes product and isn't a sniper main. Nobody wants to scrim on it.
People dislike granary because you have to play it differently and it doesn't have a ''spire'' (just like sunshine, process...) and it's certainly not as stalematey as people usually say. In fact, no map has felt slow to me (except for reckoner last)
I got it, let's create a map where every point is a spire and additionally, scout-friendly with million props to jump on. Let's make soldier more useless than already is and let's play every map the same so I don't have to learn new ways on how to push a choke.
-process +gpit/edifice[/quote]
remove two of the best maps, add in one probably good map and one widely disliked map???????
remove granary. alternatively, remove every wall on the map[/quote]
two of the best maps? might be in NA. In EU I can't think of a single person that likes product and isn't a sniper main. Nobody wants to scrim on it.
People dislike granary because you have to play it differently and it doesn't have a ''spire'' (just like sunshine, process...) and it's certainly not as stalematey as people usually say. In fact, no map has felt slow to me (except for reckoner last)
I got it, let's create a map where every point is a spire and additionally, scout-friendly with million props to jump on. Let's make soldier more useless than already is and let's play every map the same so I don't have to learn new ways on how to push a choke.
i feel like you're really mad about a problem that doesn't even exist
i feel like you're really mad about a problem that doesn't even exist
Caelitwo of the best maps? might be in NA. In EU I can't think of a single person that likes product and isn't a sniper main. Nobody wants to scrim on it.
People dislike granary because you have to play it differently and it doesn't have a ''spire'' (just like sunshine, process...) and it's certainly not as stalematey as people usually say. In fact, no map has felt slow to me (except for reckoner last)
I got it, let's create a map where every point is a spire and additionally, scout-friendly with million props to jump on. Let's make soldier more useless than already is and let's play every map the same so I don't have to learn new ways on how to push a choke.
u dum
[quote=Caeli]
two of the best maps? might be in NA. In EU I can't think of a single person that likes product and isn't a sniper main. Nobody wants to scrim on it.
People dislike granary because you have to play it differently and it doesn't have a ''spire'' (just like sunshine, process...) and it's certainly not as stalematey as people usually say. In fact, no map has felt slow to me (except for reckoner last)
I got it, let's create a map where every point is a spire and additionally, scout-friendly with million props to jump on. Let's make soldier more useless than already is and let's play every map the same so I don't have to learn new ways on how to push a choke.[/quote]
u dum
two of the best maps? might be in NA. In EU I can't think of a single person that likes product and isn't a sniper main. Nobody wants to scrim on it.
People dislike granary because you have to play it differently and it doesn't have a ''spire'' (just like sunshine, process...) and it's certainly not as stalematey as people usually say. In fact, no map has felt slow to me (except for reckoner last)
I got it, let's create a map where every point is a spire and additionally, scout-friendly with million props to jump on. Let's make soldier more useless than already is and let's play every map the same so I don't have to learn new ways on how to push a choke.[/quote]
u dum
caeli are u a bad soldier cuz u type like a bad soldier
caeli are u a bad soldier cuz u type like a bad soldier
unfCaelitwo of the best maps? might be in NA. In EU I can't think of a single person that likes product and isn't a sniper main. Nobody wants to scrim on it.
People dislike granary because you have to play it differently and it doesn't have a ''spire'' (just like sunshine, process...) and it's certainly not as stalematey as people usually say. In fact, no map has felt slow to me (except for reckoner last)
I got it, let's create a map where every point is a spire and additionally, scout-friendly with million props to jump on. Let's make soldier more useless than already is and let's play every map the same so I don't have to learn new ways on how to push a choke.
u dum
yea let's call people who have different opinions dumb.
[quote=unf][quote=Caeli]
two of the best maps? might be in NA. In EU I can't think of a single person that likes product and isn't a sniper main. Nobody wants to scrim on it.
People dislike granary because you have to play it differently and it doesn't have a ''spire'' (just like sunshine, process...) and it's certainly not as stalematey as people usually say. In fact, no map has felt slow to me (except for reckoner last)
I got it, let's create a map where every point is a spire and additionally, scout-friendly with million props to jump on. Let's make soldier more useless than already is and let's play every map the same so I don't have to learn new ways on how to push a choke.[/quote]
u dum[/quote]
yea let's call people who have different opinions dumb.
two of the best maps? might be in NA. In EU I can't think of a single person that likes product and isn't a sniper main. Nobody wants to scrim on it.
People dislike granary because you have to play it differently and it doesn't have a ''spire'' (just like sunshine, process...) and it's certainly not as stalematey as people usually say. In fact, no map has felt slow to me (except for reckoner last)
I got it, let's create a map where every point is a spire and additionally, scout-friendly with million props to jump on. Let's make soldier more useless than already is and let's play every map the same so I don't have to learn new ways on how to push a choke.[/quote]
u dum[/quote]
yea let's call people who have different opinions dumb.
CaeliunfCaelitwo of the best maps? might be in NA. In EU I can't think of a single person that likes product and isn't a sniper main. Nobody wants to scrim on it.
People dislike granary because you have to play it differently and it doesn't have a ''spire'' (just like sunshine, process...) and it's certainly not as stalematey as people usually say. In fact, no map has felt slow to me (except for reckoner last)
I got it, let's create a map where every point is a spire and additionally, scout-friendly with million props to jump on. Let's make soldier more useless than already is and let's play every map the same so I don't have to learn new ways on how to push a choke.
u dum
yea let's call people who have different opinions dumb.
u dum
[quote=Caeli][quote=unf][quote=Caeli]
two of the best maps? might be in NA. In EU I can't think of a single person that likes product and isn't a sniper main. Nobody wants to scrim on it.
People dislike granary because you have to play it differently and it doesn't have a ''spire'' (just like sunshine, process...) and it's certainly not as stalematey as people usually say. In fact, no map has felt slow to me (except for reckoner last)
I got it, let's create a map where every point is a spire and additionally, scout-friendly with million props to jump on. Let's make soldier more useless than already is and let's play every map the same so I don't have to learn new ways on how to push a choke.[/quote]
u dum[/quote]
yea let's call people who have different opinions dumb.[/quote]
u dum
two of the best maps? might be in NA. In EU I can't think of a single person that likes product and isn't a sniper main. Nobody wants to scrim on it.
People dislike granary because you have to play it differently and it doesn't have a ''spire'' (just like sunshine, process...) and it's certainly not as stalematey as people usually say. In fact, no map has felt slow to me (except for reckoner last)
I got it, let's create a map where every point is a spire and additionally, scout-friendly with million props to jump on. Let's make soldier more useless than already is and let's play every map the same so I don't have to learn new ways on how to push a choke.[/quote]
u dum[/quote]
yea let's call people who have different opinions dumb.[/quote]
u dum
I don't know about A/D - Using learned knowledge of the past, leagues have historically edged out A/D maps like Gravel Pit from the map pool and whilst I personally think Steel is a fantastic map and it'd be interesting to play from a 6's point of view, I can't imagine more than 5% of the community agree with me, so I think the format will be edged out of the 6's game mode.
For Koth though, we've gradually influxed one map into the pool, Viaduct and it hasn't proven completely unpopular and as the OP rightly points out, 5cp is a burden on stalemates and more focus should be to invest in using more Koth maps to add more variety to help universal appeal of the gamemode but also help reduce stalemates which is a big issue with the game in it's current format.
Koth_Bagel has had a lot of praise and should be considered.
Ashville / Coalplant has been used previously but phased out, maps like Lakeside have not been considered probably due to the strength of the sniper, maps like Warmtic to my knowledge have never been tested and I am not sure why, it seems like it MIGHT be viable for testing. Other than this, from the existing pool of maps, I can't see many other options unless you're a fan of Koth Badlands.
Going forward I would say it would be crazy not to introduce more Koth into competitive TF2, particularly 6v6.
I don't know about A/D - Using learned knowledge of the past, leagues have historically edged out A/D maps like Gravel Pit from the map pool and whilst I personally think Steel is a fantastic map and it'd be interesting to play from a 6's point of view, I can't imagine more than 5% of the community agree with me, so I think the format will be edged out of the 6's game mode.
For Koth though, we've gradually influxed one map into the pool, Viaduct and it hasn't proven completely unpopular and as the OP rightly points out, 5cp is a burden on stalemates and more focus should be to invest in using more Koth maps to add more variety to help universal appeal of the gamemode but also help reduce stalemates which is a big issue with the game in it's current format.
Koth_Bagel has had a lot of praise and should be considered.
Ashville / Coalplant has been used previously but phased out, maps like Lakeside have not been considered probably due to the strength of the sniper, maps like Warmtic to my knowledge have never been tested and I am not sure why, it seems like it MIGHT be viable for testing. Other than this, from the existing pool of maps, I can't see many other options unless you're a fan of Koth Badlands.
Going forward I would say it would be crazy not to introduce more Koth into competitive TF2, particularly 6v6.
For Koth though, we've gradually influxed one map into the pool, Viaduct and it hasn't proven completely unpopular and as the OP rightly points out, 5cp is a burden on stalemates and more focus should be to invest in using more Koth maps to add more variety to help universal appeal of the gamemode but also help reduce stalemates which is a big issue with the game in it's current format.
Koth_Bagel has had a lot of praise and should be considered.
Ashville / Coalplant has been used previously but phased out, maps like Lakeside have not been considered probably due to the strength of the sniper, maps like Warmtic to my knowledge have never been tested and I am not sure why, it seems like it MIGHT be viable for testing. Other than this, from the existing pool of maps, I can't see many other options unless you're a fan of Koth Badlands.
Going forward I would say it would be crazy not to introduce more Koth into competitive TF2, particularly 6v6.
CaeliunfCaelitwo of the best maps? might be in NA. In EU I can't think of a single person that likes product and isn't a sniper main. Nobody wants to scrim on it.
People dislike granary because you have to play it differently and it doesn't have a ''spire'' (just like sunshine, process...) and it's certainly not as stalematey as people usually say. In fact, no map has felt slow to me (except for reckoner last)
I got it, let's create a map where every point is a spire and additionally, scout-friendly with million props to jump on. Let's make soldier more useless than already is and let's play every map the same so I don't have to learn new ways on how to push a choke.
u dum
yea let's call people who have different opinions dumb.
I think he is calling you dumb because you're asserting your "opinions" as generalizations.
Ie - "I can't think of anyone else but a sniper main who likes Viaduct" - I like Viaduct and I am not a sniper main. You got 1, I am sure if you surveyed all non sniper mains, you'd find more than 1 who approve of the map. People will scrim it when it is time to play it, I want to scrim it - Unless your team plays a lot in the off-season (which mine doesn't) then I don't see why you care if you practise it in the off-season or not, otherwise teams will play the maps due to be played in official games.
You also assert why "people dislike Granary" without any evidence to back up, some theory about a spire which does indeed sound silly. If you can find more people who think you're correct, then your theory holds weight, but it does not come across as an opinion.
[quote=Caeli][quote=unf][quote=Caeli]
two of the best maps? might be in NA. In EU I can't think of a single person that likes product and isn't a sniper main. Nobody wants to scrim on it.
People dislike granary because you have to play it differently and it doesn't have a ''spire'' (just like sunshine, process...) and it's certainly not as stalematey as people usually say. In fact, no map has felt slow to me (except for reckoner last)
I got it, let's create a map where every point is a spire and additionally, scout-friendly with million props to jump on. Let's make soldier more useless than already is and let's play every map the same so I don't have to learn new ways on how to push a choke.[/quote]
u dum[/quote]
yea let's call people who have different opinions dumb.[/quote]
I think he is calling you dumb because you're asserting your "opinions" as generalizations.
Ie - "I can't think of anyone else but a sniper main who likes Viaduct" - I like Viaduct and I am not a sniper main. You got 1, I am sure if you surveyed all non sniper mains, you'd find more than 1 who approve of the map. People will scrim it when it is time to play it, I want to scrim it - Unless your team plays a lot in the off-season (which mine doesn't) then I don't see why you care if you practise it in the off-season or not, otherwise teams will play the maps due to be played in official games.
You also assert why "people dislike Granary" without any evidence to back up, some theory about a spire which does indeed sound silly. If you can find more people who think you're correct, then your theory holds weight, but it does not come across as an opinion.
two of the best maps? might be in NA. In EU I can't think of a single person that likes product and isn't a sniper main. Nobody wants to scrim on it.
People dislike granary because you have to play it differently and it doesn't have a ''spire'' (just like sunshine, process...) and it's certainly not as stalematey as people usually say. In fact, no map has felt slow to me (except for reckoner last)
I got it, let's create a map where every point is a spire and additionally, scout-friendly with million props to jump on. Let's make soldier more useless than already is and let's play every map the same so I don't have to learn new ways on how to push a choke.[/quote]
u dum[/quote]
yea let's call people who have different opinions dumb.[/quote]
I think he is calling you dumb because you're asserting your "opinions" as generalizations.
Ie - "I can't think of anyone else but a sniper main who likes Viaduct" - I like Viaduct and I am not a sniper main. You got 1, I am sure if you surveyed all non sniper mains, you'd find more than 1 who approve of the map. People will scrim it when it is time to play it, I want to scrim it - Unless your team plays a lot in the off-season (which mine doesn't) then I don't see why you care if you practise it in the off-season or not, otherwise teams will play the maps due to be played in official games.
You also assert why "people dislike Granary" without any evidence to back up, some theory about a spire which does indeed sound silly. If you can find more people who think you're correct, then your theory holds weight, but it does not come across as an opinion.
Caelitwo of the best maps? might be in NA. In EU I can't think of a single person that likes product and isn't a sniper main. Nobody wants to scrim on it.
People dislike granary because you have to play it differently and it doesn't have a ''spire'' (just like sunshine, process...) and it's certainly not as stalematey as people usually say. In fact, no map has felt slow to me (except for reckoner last)
I got it, let's create a map where every point is a spire and additionally, scout-friendly with million props to jump on. Let's make soldier more useless than already is and let's play every map the same so I don't have to learn new ways on how to push a choke.
I'm in EU and I like product, and I main demo ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[quote=Caeli]
two of the best maps? might be in NA. In EU I can't think of a single person that likes product and isn't a sniper main. Nobody wants to scrim on it.
People dislike granary because you have to play it differently and it doesn't have a ''spire'' (just like sunshine, process...) and it's certainly not as stalematey as people usually say. In fact, no map has felt slow to me (except for reckoner last)
I got it, let's create a map where every point is a spire and additionally, scout-friendly with million props to jump on. Let's make soldier more useless than already is and let's play every map the same so I don't have to learn new ways on how to push a choke.[/quote]
I'm in EU and I like product, and I main demo ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
two of the best maps? might be in NA. In EU I can't think of a single person that likes product and isn't a sniper main. Nobody wants to scrim on it.
People dislike granary because you have to play it differently and it doesn't have a ''spire'' (just like sunshine, process...) and it's certainly not as stalematey as people usually say. In fact, no map has felt slow to me (except for reckoner last)
I got it, let's create a map where every point is a spire and additionally, scout-friendly with million props to jump on. Let's make soldier more useless than already is and let's play every map the same so I don't have to learn new ways on how to push a choke.[/quote]
I'm in EU and I like product, and I main demo ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Caelitwo of the best maps? might be in NA. In EU I can't think of a single person that likes product and isn't a sniper main. Nobody wants to scrim on it..
in my experience people don't want to scrim it outside of product week because it's more dm-centric. people would rather practice pushing and positioning as opposed to team dm.
[quote=Caeli]
two of the best maps? might be in NA. In EU I can't think of a single person that likes product and isn't a sniper main. Nobody wants to scrim on it..[/quote]
in my experience people don't want to scrim it outside of product week because it's more dm-centric. people would rather practice pushing and positioning as opposed to team dm.
two of the best maps? might be in NA. In EU I can't think of a single person that likes product and isn't a sniper main. Nobody wants to scrim on it..[/quote]
in my experience people don't want to scrim it outside of product week because it's more dm-centric. people would rather practice pushing and positioning as opposed to team dm.
MenachemCaelitwo of the best maps? might be in NA. In EU I can't think of a single person that likes product and isn't a sniper main. Nobody wants to scrim on it..
in my experience people don't want to scrim it outside of product week because it's more dm-centric. people would rather practice pushing and positioning as opposed to team dm.
I do not disagree with your point of view but Pushing and Positioning do exist on Viaduct and are extremely important skills to have because they are used so much different than in 5CP maps. Most players that say "viaduct is DM only" are the players who don't even try to understand the difference in positions/play styles for KOTH. I feel you are punished much more on Viaduct for mistakes during pushes/team fights as opposed to 5CP maps.
Its obviously not the map you want to scrim very often because 5CP maps are 7/8 maps we play every season.
However, I have seen many teams come together and improve their cohesion by playing viaduct and then translate that to better 5CP team play.
[quote=Menachem][quote=Caeli]
two of the best maps? might be in NA. In EU I can't think of a single person that likes product and isn't a sniper main. Nobody wants to scrim on it..[/quote]
in my experience people don't want to scrim it outside of product week because it's more dm-centric. people would rather practice [b]pushing and positioning[/b] as opposed to team dm.[/quote]
I do not disagree with your point of view but Pushing and Positioning do exist on Viaduct and are extremely important skills to have because they are used so much different than in 5CP maps. Most players that say "viaduct is DM only" are the players who don't even try to understand the difference in positions/play styles for KOTH. I feel you are punished much more on Viaduct for mistakes during pushes/team fights as opposed to 5CP maps.
Its obviously not the map you want to scrim very often because 5CP maps are 7/8 maps we play every season.
However, I have seen many teams come together and improve their cohesion by playing viaduct and then translate that to better 5CP team play.
two of the best maps? might be in NA. In EU I can't think of a single person that likes product and isn't a sniper main. Nobody wants to scrim on it..[/quote]
in my experience people don't want to scrim it outside of product week because it's more dm-centric. people would rather practice [b]pushing and positioning[/b] as opposed to team dm.[/quote]
I do not disagree with your point of view but Pushing and Positioning do exist on Viaduct and are extremely important skills to have because they are used so much different than in 5CP maps. Most players that say "viaduct is DM only" are the players who don't even try to understand the difference in positions/play styles for KOTH. I feel you are punished much more on Viaduct for mistakes during pushes/team fights as opposed to 5CP maps.
Its obviously not the map you want to scrim very often because 5CP maps are 7/8 maps we play every season.
However, I have seen many teams come together and improve their cohesion by playing viaduct and then translate that to better 5CP team play.
Has ramjam ever been seriously tried in 6s? They played it in highlander a few times and I really like the map but it might be too big of a map for 6s
Has ramjam ever been seriously tried in 6s? They played it in highlander a few times and I really like the map but it might be too big of a map for 6s
ZeRo5We all know how flawed the 5cp format is, it is stalematey unfun to watch or play (IMO) and is getting very repetitive [...] strategies and can never get stalematey because it encourages pushing [...] it has the potential to become the new gamemode since its less stalematey [...]
A/D should guarantee an enginner 100% of the time for the defending side which is a main supporter for stalemates so I don't see how a/d would work. I don't think the map layout would effect the way a/d would function because either way the defending side would just run engie, heavy, etc.
The only reason viaduct/product is so enjoyable is because there's no chance to setup an engie and it forces the other team to push due to the timer. I think tf2 could use at least one or two more koth maps in the rotation if those maps have the same or better gameplay than viaduct/product.
[quote=ZeRo5]We all know how flawed the 5cp format is, it is stalematey unfun to watch or play (IMO) and is getting very repetitive [...] strategies and can never get stalematey because it encourages pushing [...] it has the potential to become the new gamemode since its less stalematey [...][/quote]
A/D should guarantee an enginner 100% of the time for the defending side which is a main supporter for stalemates so I don't see how a/d would work. I don't think the map layout would effect the way a/d would function because either way the defending side would just run engie, heavy, etc.
The only reason viaduct/product is so enjoyable is because there's no chance to setup an engie and it forces the other team to push due to the timer. I think tf2 could use at least one or two more koth maps in the rotation if those maps have the same or better gameplay than viaduct/product.
A/D should guarantee an enginner 100% of the time for the defending side which is a main supporter for stalemates so I don't see how a/d would work. I don't think the map layout would effect the way a/d would function because either way the defending side would just run engie, heavy, etc.
The only reason viaduct/product is so enjoyable is because there's no chance to setup an engie and it forces the other team to push due to the timer. I think tf2 could use at least one or two more koth maps in the rotation if those maps have the same or better gameplay than viaduct/product.
I played Gravel Pit for 3 seasons. And I loved it, even as a depressed Medic main.
At the same time it's best to stick with CP and KOTH. In a perfect world we would have 4 of each but maybe adding another KOTH is feasible.
I played Gravel Pit for 3 seasons. And I loved it, even as a depressed Medic main.
At the same time it's best to stick with CP and KOTH. In a perfect world we would have 4 of each but maybe adding another KOTH is feasible.
At the same time it's best to stick with CP and KOTH. In a perfect world we would have 4 of each but maybe adding another KOTH is feasible.
s1keZeRo5We all know how flawed the 5cp format is, it is stalematey unfun to watch or play (IMO) and is getting very repetitive [...] strategies and can never get stalematey because it encourages pushing [...] it has the potential to become the new gamemode since its less stalematey [...]
A/D should guarantee an enginner 100% of the time for the defending side which is a main supporter for stalemates so I don't see how a/d would work. I don't think the map layout would effect the way a/d would function because either way the defending side would just run engie, heavy, etc.
While engi definitely makes 5cp more slow, I'm not so sure about a/d. He can definitely make for a stronger defense in certain situations, but sentries are easy to spam down (especially with the ranger reban) and the engi himself is easy to kill.
I'm also going to paste a post I made earlier today: Honestly I don't get the whole "it's stalematey" argument to begin with. In 5cp stalemates are a real problem; it's possible for both teams to stand to lose more than they could gain by pushing and then spend a long 5 minutes poking at each other until one team gets bored enough to push anyway or bring out offclasses, but in payload and a/d, there's one team whose sole purpose is to push. I don't see why stalemates there would last longer than the time it takes to build an uber.
[quote=s1ke][quote=ZeRo5]We all know how flawed the 5cp format is, it is stalematey unfun to watch or play (IMO) and is getting very repetitive [...] strategies and can never get stalematey because it encourages pushing [...] it has the potential to become the new gamemode since its less stalematey [...][/quote]
A/D should guarantee an enginner 100% of the time for the defending side which is a main supporter for stalemates so I don't see how a/d would work. I don't think the map layout would effect the way a/d would function because either way the defending side would just run engie, heavy, etc.
[/quote]
While engi definitely makes 5cp more slow, I'm not so sure about a/d. He can definitely make for a stronger defense in certain situations, but sentries are easy to spam down (especially with the ranger reban) and the engi himself is easy to kill.
I'm also going to paste a post I made earlier today: Honestly I don't get the whole "it's stalematey" argument to begin with. In 5cp stalemates are a real problem; it's possible for both teams to stand to lose more than they could gain by pushing and then spend a long 5 minutes poking at each other until one team gets bored enough to push anyway or bring out offclasses, but in payload and a/d, there's one team whose sole purpose is to push. I don't see why stalemates there would last longer than the time it takes to build an uber.
A/D should guarantee an enginner 100% of the time for the defending side which is a main supporter for stalemates so I don't see how a/d would work. I don't think the map layout would effect the way a/d would function because either way the defending side would just run engie, heavy, etc.
[/quote]
While engi definitely makes 5cp more slow, I'm not so sure about a/d. He can definitely make for a stronger defense in certain situations, but sentries are easy to spam down (especially with the ranger reban) and the engi himself is easy to kill.
I'm also going to paste a post I made earlier today: Honestly I don't get the whole "it's stalematey" argument to begin with. In 5cp stalemates are a real problem; it's possible for both teams to stand to lose more than they could gain by pushing and then spend a long 5 minutes poking at each other until one team gets bored enough to push anyway or bring out offclasses, but in payload and a/d, there's one team whose sole purpose is to push. I don't see why stalemates there would last longer than the time it takes to build an uber.
its not "stalemates" in the classic sense that people have an issue with. its long periods of sluggish gameplay where one team is defending one point and another team is repeatedly attacking that point. attackers have an inherit disadvantage when attacking a point, and that is only made worse in a/d with the no-downside full time defense classes
its not "stalemates" in the classic sense that people have an issue with. its long periods of sluggish gameplay where one team is defending one point and another team is repeatedly attacking that point. attackers have an inherit disadvantage when attacking a point, and that is only made worse in a/d with the no-downside full time defense classes
5cp is SO much more fun to watch than koth imo.
Koth is basically just one big DM.
Sure, there's teamplay elements to it and it's a lot more complicated than just DM, but the spectator sees a lot less of the strategic elements than in 5cp.
In 5cp there's back and forth with the points, a team can push the other teams last, lose the push and the other team uses the advantage to roll all the way to the other teams last. That's exiting and interesting to see. So are backcaps or to see if a team that just won mid pushes for second or holds mid first and if the team that lost mid defends second or just turtles last.
In koth all you see is both teams runnign into each other again and again and the team that gets more kills gets the point.
Basically it's just 5cp mid fights all game long.
And A/D is basically Koth but with two points.
I get why people are complaining about 5cp, but i also think the complaints are way over the top for how big the issues really are. People pretend like the only issue with Koth and A/D is the maps, but I think it's a the grass is always greener on the other side kinda thing.
Assuming all the game modes worked flawlessly and had great maps, i still think 5cp would by far be the best one for comp play.
5cp is SO much more fun to watch than koth imo.
Koth is basically just one big DM.
Sure, there's teamplay elements to it and it's a lot more complicated than just DM, but the spectator sees a lot less of the strategic elements than in 5cp.
In 5cp there's back and forth with the points, a team can push the other teams last, lose the push and the other team uses the advantage to roll all the way to the other teams last. That's exiting and interesting to see. So are backcaps or to see if a team that just won mid pushes for second or holds mid first and if the team that lost mid defends second or just turtles last.
In koth all you see is both teams runnign into each other again and again and the team that gets more kills gets the point.
Basically it's just 5cp mid fights all game long.
And A/D is basically Koth but with two points.
I get why people are complaining about 5cp, but i also think the complaints are way over the top for how big the issues really are. People pretend like the only issue with Koth and A/D is the maps, but I think it's a the grass is always greener on the other side kinda thing.
Assuming all the game modes worked flawlessly and had great maps, i still think 5cp would by far be the best one for comp play.
Koth is basically just one big DM.
Sure, there's teamplay elements to it and it's a lot more complicated than just DM, but the spectator sees a lot less of the strategic elements than in 5cp.
In 5cp there's back and forth with the points, a team can push the other teams last, lose the push and the other team uses the advantage to roll all the way to the other teams last. That's exiting and interesting to see. So are backcaps or to see if a team that just won mid pushes for second or holds mid first and if the team that lost mid defends second or just turtles last.
In koth all you see is both teams runnign into each other again and again and the team that gets more kills gets the point.
Basically it's just 5cp mid fights all game long.
And A/D is basically Koth but with two points.
I get why people are complaining about 5cp, but i also think the complaints are way over the top for how big the issues really are. People pretend like the only issue with Koth and A/D is the maps, but I think it's a the grass is always greener on the other side kinda thing.
Assuming all the game modes worked flawlessly and had great maps, i still think 5cp would by far be the best one for comp play.
RentQN5cp is SO much more fun to watch than koth imo.
Koth is basically just one big DM.
Sure, there's teamplay elements to it and it's a lot more complicated than just DM, but the spectator sees a lot less of the strategic elements than in 5cp.
In 5cp there's back and forth with the points, a team can push the other teams last, lose the push and the other team uses the advantage to roll all the way to the other teams last. That's exiting and interesting to see. So are backcaps or to see if a team that just won mid pushes for second or holds mid first and if the team that lost mid defends second or just turtles last.
In koth all you see is both teams running into each other again and again and the team that gets more kills gets the point.
Just want to point out that the most successful esport when it comes to viewer numbers (cs:go) is exactly that. Easy to understand DM for new people with a lot of underlying strats and complexity that you have to be better to understand. In this sense KOTH would objectively be the best option if we are trying to present TF2 as a streamable and marketable game. Might not be the most fun for the players but it would be a easier viewer experience.
[quote=RentQN]5cp is SO much more fun to watch than koth imo.
Koth is basically just one big DM.
Sure, there's teamplay elements to it and it's a lot more complicated than just DM, but the spectator sees a lot less of the strategic elements than in 5cp.
In 5cp there's back and forth with the points, a team can push the other teams last, lose the push and the other team uses the advantage to roll all the way to the other teams last. That's exiting and interesting to see. So are backcaps or to see if a team that just won mid pushes for second or holds mid first and if the team that lost mid defends second or just turtles last.
In koth all you see is both teams running into each other again and again and the team that gets more kills gets the point. [/quote]
Just want to point out that the most successful esport when it comes to viewer numbers (cs:go) is exactly that. Easy to understand DM for new people with a lot of underlying strats and complexity that you have to be better to understand. In this sense KOTH would objectively be the best option if we are trying to present TF2 as a streamable and marketable game. Might not be the most fun for the players but it would be a easier viewer experience.
Koth is basically just one big DM.
Sure, there's teamplay elements to it and it's a lot more complicated than just DM, but the spectator sees a lot less of the strategic elements than in 5cp.
In 5cp there's back and forth with the points, a team can push the other teams last, lose the push and the other team uses the advantage to roll all the way to the other teams last. That's exiting and interesting to see. So are backcaps or to see if a team that just won mid pushes for second or holds mid first and if the team that lost mid defends second or just turtles last.
In koth all you see is both teams running into each other again and again and the team that gets more kills gets the point. [/quote]
Just want to point out that the most successful esport when it comes to viewer numbers (cs:go) is exactly that. Easy to understand DM for new people with a lot of underlying strats and complexity that you have to be better to understand. In this sense KOTH would objectively be the best option if we are trying to present TF2 as a streamable and marketable game. Might not be the most fun for the players but it would be a easier viewer experience.
gpit was fun until you hit point c and had to stare up at a revved up heavy and level 3 sentry
ashville/coalplant were removed way back in the mix^/hrg days, why not bring them back and play on them in pugs
gpit was fun until you hit point c and had to stare up at a revved up heavy and level 3 sentry
ashville/coalplant were removed way back in the mix^/hrg days, why not bring them back and play on them in pugs
ashville/coalplant were removed way back in the mix^/hrg days, why not bring them back and play on them in pugs
Tino_RentQN5cp is SO much more fun to watch than koth imo.
Koth is basically just one big DM.
Sure, there's teamplay elements to it and it's a lot more complicated than just DM, but the spectator sees a lot less of the strategic elements than in 5cp.
In 5cp there's back and forth with the points, a team can push the other teams last, lose the push and the other team uses the advantage to roll all the way to the other teams last. That's exiting and interesting to see. So are backcaps or to see if a team that just won mid pushes for second or holds mid first and if the team that lost mid defends second or just turtles last.
In koth all you see is both teams running into each other again and again and the team that gets more kills gets the point.
Just want to point out that the most successful esport when it comes to viewer numbers (cs:go) is exactly that. Easy to understand DM for new people with a lot of underlying strats and complexity that you have to be better to understand. In this sense KOTH would objectively be the best option if we are trying to present TF2 as a streamable and marketable game. Might not be the most fun for the players but it would be a easier viewer experience.
CSGO is nothing like koth lol.
For starters it has 2 points not 1, which already makes a huge difference.
In koth there is no choice in where to go, only when. So that's something where 5cp is closer to CS than koth.
I also don't think koth has anywhere near the strategic complexity of CS, underlying or not.
So 5cp having more strategic dept than koth is another similarity.
CS is definitely more complex than both, but 5cp is closer.
And it's not like the basic rules üg6cp are to complicated for new viewers to understand.
The classes in TF2 might be, but that's a different story.
All in all I think your argument that koth is the better game mode because CSGO is successful is pretty rediculous...
[quote=Tino_][quote=RentQN]5cp is SO much more fun to watch than koth imo.
Koth is basically just one big DM.
Sure, there's teamplay elements to it and it's a lot more complicated than just DM, but the spectator sees a lot less of the strategic elements than in 5cp.
In 5cp there's back and forth with the points, a team can push the other teams last, lose the push and the other team uses the advantage to roll all the way to the other teams last. That's exiting and interesting to see. So are backcaps or to see if a team that just won mid pushes for second or holds mid first and if the team that lost mid defends second or just turtles last.
In koth all you see is both teams running into each other again and again and the team that gets more kills gets the point. [/quote]
Just want to point out that the most successful esport when it comes to viewer numbers (cs:go) is exactly that. Easy to understand DM for new people with a lot of underlying strats and complexity that you have to be better to understand. In this sense KOTH would objectively be the best option if we are trying to present TF2 as a streamable and marketable game. Might not be the most fun for the players but it would be a easier viewer experience.[/quote]
CSGO is nothing like koth lol.
For starters it has 2 points not 1, which already makes a huge difference.
In koth there is no choice in where to go, only when. So that's something where 5cp is closer to CS than koth.
I also don't think koth has anywhere near the strategic complexity of CS, underlying or not.
So 5cp having more strategic dept than koth is another similarity.
CS is definitely more complex than both, but 5cp is closer.
And it's not like the basic rules üg6cp are to complicated for new viewers to understand.
The classes in TF2 might be, but that's a different story.
All in all I think your argument that koth is the better game mode because CSGO is successful is pretty rediculous...
Koth is basically just one big DM.
Sure, there's teamplay elements to it and it's a lot more complicated than just DM, but the spectator sees a lot less of the strategic elements than in 5cp.
In 5cp there's back and forth with the points, a team can push the other teams last, lose the push and the other team uses the advantage to roll all the way to the other teams last. That's exiting and interesting to see. So are backcaps or to see if a team that just won mid pushes for second or holds mid first and if the team that lost mid defends second or just turtles last.
In koth all you see is both teams running into each other again and again and the team that gets more kills gets the point. [/quote]
Just want to point out that the most successful esport when it comes to viewer numbers (cs:go) is exactly that. Easy to understand DM for new people with a lot of underlying strats and complexity that you have to be better to understand. In this sense KOTH would objectively be the best option if we are trying to present TF2 as a streamable and marketable game. Might not be the most fun for the players but it would be a easier viewer experience.[/quote]
CSGO is nothing like koth lol.
For starters it has 2 points not 1, which already makes a huge difference.
In koth there is no choice in where to go, only when. So that's something where 5cp is closer to CS than koth.
I also don't think koth has anywhere near the strategic complexity of CS, underlying or not.
So 5cp having more strategic dept than koth is another similarity.
CS is definitely more complex than both, but 5cp is closer.
And it's not like the basic rules üg6cp are to complicated for new viewers to understand.
The classes in TF2 might be, but that's a different story.
All in all I think your argument that koth is the better game mode because CSGO is successful is pretty rediculous...
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