Nub_Danish[n a Calgary newspaper about refugees who had fled to Canada saying they didn't like the hospitality and were considering returning to Syria. The reasons they listed were, the sheets weren't being changed daily and they were being served "westernized middle eastern food" so it is to say maybe all the refugee's aren't fleeing violence considering they'd be willing to return because they didn't like the food.
Yeah, totally - and their evil plans were thwarted due to mediocre food.
Alert the presses. Terrorism_solved.
[quote=Nub_Danish][n a Calgary newspaper about refugees who had fled to Canada saying they didn't like the hospitality and were considering returning to Syria. The reasons they listed were, the sheets weren't being changed daily and they were being served "westernized middle eastern food" so it is to say maybe all the refugee's aren't fleeing violence considering they'd be willing to return because they didn't like the food.[/quote]
Yeah, totally - and their evil plans were thwarted due to mediocre food.
Alert the presses. Terrorism_solved.
Nub_DanishI mean there was a article here in a Calgary newspaper about refugees who had fled to Canada saying they didn't like the hospitality and were considering returning to Syria. The reasons they listed were, the sheets weren't being changed daily and they were being served "westernized middle eastern food" so it is to say maybe all the refugee's aren't fleeing violence considering they'd be willing to return because they didn't like the food.
So even if it was the case that a notable percentage of Syrian refugees would consider returning to Syria because of bad food (hint: this isn't the case) and thus they aren't leaving Syria for serious reasons why ARE they moving out of Syria? To invade your country and destroy your precious way of life by spreading their evil Muslim religion? Listening to people like you talk about immigrants makes it seem like this is what you believe.
[quote=Nub_Danish]I mean there was a article here in a Calgary newspaper about refugees who had fled to Canada saying they didn't like the hospitality and were considering returning to Syria. The reasons they listed were, the sheets weren't being changed daily and they were being served "westernized middle eastern food" so it is to say maybe all the refugee's aren't fleeing violence considering they'd be willing to return because they didn't like the food.[/quote]
So even if it was the case that a notable percentage of Syrian refugees would consider returning to Syria because of bad food (hint: this isn't the case) and thus they aren't leaving Syria for serious reasons why ARE they moving out of Syria? To invade your country and destroy your precious way of life by spreading their evil Muslim religion? Listening to people like you talk about immigrants makes it seem like this is what you believe.
Theres no real reason for 70-80% of the immigrant hate lets be fuckin real. They mostly hate brown people and a few are concerned about the feasibility of mass immigration
Theres no real reason for 70-80% of the immigrant hate lets be fuckin real. They mostly hate brown people and a few are concerned about the feasibility of mass immigration
if mediocre food can stop terrorists, why is america still so afraid of terrorism
checkmate atheists
if mediocre food can stop terrorists, why is america still so afraid of terrorism
checkmate atheists
Germany revealed a formerly secret document that they made to prepare for brexit. An important thing to note about this document is that the strategy of Germany and the EU is to not allow Britain to "get all the good parts of the EU" like access to the free market, and to make an example of Britain in order to prevent other countries from leaving as well. Isn't this what Emilio said wouldn't happen?
I also read an article about Britain's relation to China, and apparently it may take up to 10 years for them to make new trade agreements between them.
It sounds like recovery's gonna take long enough for the old voters to die before they see any kind of possible benefit. Dunno about the younger generations though, maybe your children or grandchildren will be grateful to you one day, who knows.
Germany revealed a formerly secret document that they made to prepare for brexit. An important thing to note about this document is that the strategy of Germany and the EU is to not allow Britain to "get all the good parts of the EU" like access to the free market, and to make an example of Britain in order to prevent other countries from leaving as well. Isn't this what Emilio said [b]wouldn't[/b] happen?
I also read an article about Britain's relation to China, and apparently it may take up to 10 years for them to make new trade agreements between them.
It sounds like recovery's gonna take long enough for the old voters to die before they see any kind of possible benefit. Dunno about the younger generations though, maybe your children or grandchildren will be grateful to you one day, who knows.
It makes sense to not make the new agreements too favorable. Allowing the UK to freeride off the EU's benefits while not having to make any of the investments for it might benefit both economies a bit more in the short term, but it would also encourage other member states to do the same. I'm pretty sure that, once a fair amount of counties try to reap the benefits without sharing in the costs of the EU, the whole system would just fall flat on its face. This is why I think the promised trade agreements are likely to be a significant downgrade from what was there before.
It makes sense to not make the new agreements too favorable. Allowing the UK to freeride off the EU's benefits while not having to make any of the investments for it might benefit both economies a bit more in the short term, but it would also encourage other member states to do the same. I'm pretty sure that, once a fair amount of counties try to reap the benefits without sharing in the costs of the EU, the whole system would just fall flat on its face. This is why I think the promised trade agreements are likely to be a significant downgrade from what was there before.
DavidTheWinI don't get the thinly veiled anti-intellectualism. When 90% of everyone whose job it is to research this kind of thing politically and economically says its a bad idea and they do it anyway and say "the British public are tired of listening to experts" then frankly they are fucking stupid.
The problem with trust in experts is the 2008 crash. The economy hasn't recovered, for ordinary people anyway, and which experts saw that coming or did something to prevent it? Anybody who had doubts was shouted down. There's no trust in politics, politicians, experts, national or international institutions - they have no credibility any more. Everyone assumes they're corrupt because many of them are corrupt.
What most voters don't realise is that none of the attacks or implied promises made during the campaign will come to pass. The French and Germans are already making noises about picking up city of London business and that would be a disaster, the UK economy leans heavily on finance. We must negotiate free movement of capital and there are only a few things that could balance that, most of of which were denounced by leavers during the campaign.
[quote=DavidTheWin]I don't get the thinly veiled anti-intellectualism. When 90% of everyone whose job it is to research this kind of thing politically and economically says its a bad idea and they do it anyway and say "the British public are tired of listening to experts" then frankly they are fucking stupid.[/quote]
The problem with trust in experts is the 2008 crash. The economy hasn't recovered, for ordinary people anyway, and which experts saw that coming or did something to prevent it? Anybody who had doubts was shouted down. There's no trust in politics, politicians, experts, national or international institutions - they have no credibility any more. Everyone assumes they're corrupt because many of them are corrupt.
What most voters don't realise is that none of the attacks or implied promises made during the campaign will come to pass. The French and Germans are already making noises about picking up city of London business and that would be a disaster, the UK economy leans heavily on finance. We must negotiate free movement of capital and there are only a few things that could balance that, most of of which were denounced by leavers during the campaign.
GentlemanJonDavidTheWinI don't get the thinly veiled anti-intellectualism. When 90% of everyone whose job it is to research this kind of thing politically and economically says its a bad idea and they do it anyway and say "the British public are tired of listening to experts" then frankly they are fucking stupid.
The problem with trust in experts is the 2008 crash. The economy hasn't recovered, for ordinary people anyway, and which experts saw that coming or did something to prevent it? Anybody who had doubts was shouted down. There's no trust in politics, politicians, experts, national or international institutions - they have no credibility any more. Everyone assumes they're corrupt because many of them are corrupt.
What most voters don't realise is that none of the attacks or implied promises made during the campaign will come to pass. The French and Germans are already making noises about picking up city of London business and that would be a disaster, the UK economy leans heavily on finance. We must negotiate free movement of capital and there are only a few things that could balance that, most of of which were denounced by leavers during the campaign.
The mistrust in the elected leaders is causing a lot of terrible parties to rise, because it's easier for them to lure in the uneducated/uninformed with short sighted propaganda. And let's be honest, international politics is nothing that even the educated voters understand easily.
A few years ago radical parties couldn't get votes easily because people were sticking with the big well established ones.
Also democracy where you elect a leading party most fit to rule is fine, direct democracy where the general population decided is fucking terrible because it's far too complex for most people to understand the implications of their votes. And nobody listens to the ones with good arguments, most just go for the party with the better propaganda.
[quote=GentlemanJon][quote=DavidTheWin]I don't get the thinly veiled anti-intellectualism. When 90% of everyone whose job it is to research this kind of thing politically and economically says its a bad idea and they do it anyway and say "the British public are tired of listening to experts" then frankly they are fucking stupid.[/quote]
The problem with trust in experts is the 2008 crash. The economy hasn't recovered, for ordinary people anyway, and which experts saw that coming or did something to prevent it? Anybody who had doubts was shouted down. There's no trust in politics, politicians, experts, national or international institutions - they have no credibility any more. Everyone assumes they're corrupt because many of them are corrupt.
What most voters don't realise is that none of the attacks or implied promises made during the campaign will come to pass. The French and Germans are already making noises about picking up city of London business and that would be a disaster, the UK economy leans heavily on finance. We must negotiate free movement of capital and there are only a few things that could balance that, most of of which were denounced by leavers during the campaign.[/quote]
The mistrust in the elected leaders is causing a lot of terrible parties to rise, because it's easier for them to lure in the uneducated/uninformed with short sighted propaganda. And let's be honest, international politics is nothing that even the educated voters understand easily.
A few years ago radical parties couldn't get votes easily because people were sticking with the big well established ones.
Also democracy where you elect a leading party most fit to rule is fine, direct democracy where the general population decided is fucking terrible because it's far too complex for most people to understand the implications of their votes. And nobody listens to the ones with good arguments, most just go for the party with the better propaganda.
The one thing that ails me about this is the amount of Brits calling this our "Independence Day" - Nigel Farage made one of the most over the top speeches I have heard since I watched....the movie "Independence Day" - as if we were shackled down to the evils of the EU, with Angela Merkel coming into our houses and stealing our children's food.
He also called it a victory for "decent people" - Sorry my values on multiculturalism and diversity don't make me "decent". The only good thing to come out of this is to see Pig Fucker Cameron go. Hopefully to be replaced by Theresa May, not Boris Yeltsin Jnr.
The one thing that ails me about this is the amount of Brits calling this our "Independence Day" - Nigel Farage made one of the most over the top speeches I have heard since I watched....the movie "Independence Day" - as if we were shackled down to the evils of the EU, with Angela Merkel coming into our houses and stealing our children's food.
He also called it a victory for "decent people" - Sorry my values on multiculturalism and diversity don't make me "decent". The only good thing to come out of this is to see Pig Fucker Cameron go. Hopefully to be replaced by Theresa May, not Boris Yeltsin Jnr.
From what I've seen in the comments of pro-brexit youtubers is that 30% of them are scared of le muslim rape gangs, 30% of them think that EU will become a superstate and suppress the UK and the rest are deranged people who think the net money britain "sends" into the EU is more than it is, and, that they don't earn by doing it. (trade etc).
95% of the pro-brexit arguments I've heard are also anecdotal evidence, xenophobia, lies, or appeal to emotion.
Either way I'm happy. A good chunk of right-wing populism will be proven wrong with this vote. Looking forward to the future.
EDIT:
HildrethThe one thing that ails me about this is the amount of Brits calling this our "Independence Day" - Nigel Farage made one of the most over the top speeches I have heard since I watched....the movie "Independence Day" - as if we were shackled down to the evils of the EU, with Angela Merkel coming into our houses and stealing our children's food.
Right-wing populists are often inherently scared of any power structures that aren't corporations. I don't know why but they just perpetuate this irrational fear and it's bred into every new generation..
From what I've seen in the comments of pro-brexit youtubers is that 30% of them are scared of [i]le muslim rape gangs[/i], 30% of them think that EU will become a [i]superstate and suppress the UK[/i] and the rest are deranged people who think the net money britain "sends" into the EU is more than it is, and, that they don't earn by doing it. (trade etc).
95% of the pro-brexit arguments I've heard are also anecdotal evidence, xenophobia, lies, or appeal to emotion.
Either way I'm happy. A good chunk of right-wing populism will be proven wrong with this vote. Looking forward to the future.
EDIT:
[quote=Hildreth]The one thing that ails me about this is the amount of Brits calling this our "Independence Day" - Nigel Farage made one of the most over the top speeches I have heard since I watched....the movie "Independence Day" - as if we were shackled down to the evils of the EU, with Angela Merkel coming into our houses and stealing our children's food.[/quote]
Right-wing populists are often inherently scared of any power structures that aren't corporations. I don't know why but they just perpetuate this irrational fear and it's bred into every new generation..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq3qdX2TGps
It's sad to see people here who've been so misled. They say they're tired of Tory austerity and think that if we stayed in the EU it would be the death of the NHS when that's literally the exact opposite of what leaving the EU will bring.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq3qdX2TGps
It's sad to see people here who've been so misled. They say they're tired of Tory austerity and think that if we stayed in the EU it would be the death of the NHS when that's literally the exact opposite of what leaving the EU will bring.
CollaideRight-wing populists are often inherently scared of any power structures that aren't corporations. I don't know why but they just perpetuate this irrational fear and it's bred into every new generation..
In the case of Farage he's spent almost his whole adult life as a market trader. He has the typical distrust or contempt for regulation despite de-regulated markets regularly bringing about catastrophe, again see the 2008 crisis. Removing the UK from EU market regulations is potentially of benefit to him and his professional associates. He is financially backed by a hedge fund manager.
[quote=Collaide]Right-wing populists are often inherently scared of any power structures that aren't corporations. I don't know why but they just perpetuate this irrational fear and it's bred into every new generation..[/quote]
In the case of Farage he's spent almost his whole adult life as a market trader. He has the typical distrust or contempt for regulation despite de-regulated markets regularly bringing about catastrophe, again see the 2008 crisis. Removing the UK from EU market regulations is potentially of benefit to him and his professional associates. He is financially backed by a hedge fund manager.
DavidTheWinhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq3qdX2TGps
It's sad to see people here who've been so misled. They say they're tired of Tory austerity and think that if we stayed in the EU it would be the death of the NHS when that's literally the exact opposite of what leaving the EU will bring.
There's no single answer, it's sad to see someone who has taken the £350 million bs and put it together in their mind, and decided the NHS will die if we stay in the EU without that money when in reality it's never going to materialise. It's sad to see people think they have no democracy or sovereignty when they can leave with a vote - something you can only do if you are democratic and sovereign. It was never taken away, we simply agreed to cooperate.
This is the art of politics, you say enough to let people impress their own fears, prejudices and beliefs onto what you're saying. None of them will get what they want.
[quote=DavidTheWin]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq3qdX2TGps
It's sad to see people here who've been so misled. They say they're tired of Tory austerity and think that if we stayed in the EU it would be the death of the NHS when that's literally the exact opposite of what leaving the EU will bring.[/quote]
There's no single answer, it's sad to see someone who has taken the £350 million bs and put it together in their mind, and decided the NHS will die if we stay in the EU without that money when in reality it's never going to materialise. It's sad to see people think they have no democracy or sovereignty when they can leave with a vote - something you can only do if you are democratic and sovereign. It was never taken away, we simply agreed to cooperate.
This is the art of politics, you say enough to let people impress their own fears, prejudices and beliefs onto what you're saying. None of them will get what they want.
https://youtu.be/yHNfvJc99YY?t=49s
So why is something this big allowed to pass without a super majority?
t. American
So why is something this big allowed to pass without a super majority?
t. American
GentlemanJonDavidTheWinI don't get the thinly veiled anti-intellectualism. When 90% of everyone whose job it is to research this kind of thing politically and economically says its a bad idea and they do it anyway and say "the British public are tired of listening to experts" then frankly they are fucking stupid.
The problem with trust in experts is the 2008 crash. The economy hasn't recovered, for ordinary people anyway, and which experts saw that coming or did something to prevent it? Anybody who had doubts was shouted down. There's no trust in politics, politicians, experts, national or international institutions - they have no credibility any more. Everyone assumes they're corrupt because many of them are corrupt.
What most voters don't realise is that none of the attacks or implied promises made during the campaign will come to pass. The French and Germans are already making noises about picking up city of London business and that would be a disaster, the UK economy leans heavily on finance. We must negotiate free movement of capital and there are only a few things that could balance that, most of of which were denounced by leavers during the campaign.
Ppl were aware that the housing market was propping up the economy and quite a few economists saw the crash. Just because you dont know where the money is doesnt make the experts wrong
[quote=GentlemanJon][quote=DavidTheWin]I don't get the thinly veiled anti-intellectualism. When 90% of everyone whose job it is to research this kind of thing politically and economically says its a bad idea and they do it anyway and say "the British public are tired of listening to experts" then frankly they are fucking stupid.[/quote]
The problem with trust in experts is the 2008 crash. The economy hasn't recovered, for ordinary people anyway, and which experts saw that coming or did something to prevent it? Anybody who had doubts was shouted down. There's no trust in politics, politicians, experts, national or international institutions - they have no credibility any more. Everyone assumes they're corrupt because many of them are corrupt.
What most voters don't realise is that none of the attacks or implied promises made during the campaign will come to pass. The French and Germans are already making noises about picking up city of London business and that would be a disaster, the UK economy leans heavily on finance. We must negotiate free movement of capital and there are only a few things that could balance that, most of of which were denounced by leavers during the campaign.[/quote]
Ppl were aware that the housing market was propping up the economy and quite a few economists saw the crash. Just because you dont know where the money is doesnt make the experts wrong
WariSo why is something this big allowed to pass without a super majority?
t. American
That was an advisory referendum. That means that POTENTIALLY the goverment could not listen to the brits (that would obviously make it sound an anti-democratic decision since more then 50% voted against).
Also if they needed something like 60% of the voters to go out EU and there were "just" 52%, it would be quite hard to govern with MORE then half of your people against you.
[quote=Wari]So why is something this big allowed to pass without a super majority?
t. American[/quote]
That was an advisory referendum. That means that POTENTIALLY the goverment could not listen to the brits (that would obviously make it sound an anti-democratic decision since more then 50% voted against).
Also if they needed something like 60% of the voters to go out EU and there were "just" 52%, it would be quite hard to govern with MORE then half of your people against you.
cirloAlso if they needed something like 60% of the voters to go out EU and there were "just" 52%, it would be quite hard to govern with MORE then half of your people against you.
Fact of the matter is, now that a lot of Brits are facing the realities of leaving the EU it seems unlikely that a majority still want to leave the EU. There's a lot of stories going around about people who voted leave just because they thought remain would win and in fact wanted to remain, but wanted the vote to be close to send a message to the EU. Plus there's other people saying they voted leave and didn't really consider the ramifications of leave winning because they just assumed remain would win. With more and more UK citizens quickly realizing the economic consequences of leaving the EU, I don't think a leave vote would win again if another referendum was held right now, let alone in a couple of years. So yeah, it does seem a little insane that they're going to go ahead and leave the EU just because of this one referendum.
[quote=cirlo]Also if they needed something like 60% of the voters to go out EU and there were "just" 52%, it would be quite hard to govern with MORE then half of your people against you.[/quote]
Fact of the matter is, now that a lot of Brits are facing the realities of leaving the EU it seems unlikely that a majority still want to leave the EU. There's a lot of stories going around about people who voted leave just because they thought remain would win and in fact wanted to remain, but wanted the vote to be close to send a message to the EU. Plus there's other people saying they voted leave and didn't really consider the ramifications of leave winning because they just assumed remain would win. With more and more UK citizens quickly realizing the economic consequences of leaving the EU, I don't think a leave vote would win again if another referendum was held right now, let alone in a couple of years. So yeah, it does seem a little insane that they're going to go ahead and leave the EU just because of this one referendum.
cirloWariSo why is something this big allowed to pass without a super majority?
t. American
That was an advisory referendum. That means that POTENTIALLY the goverment could not listen to the brits (that would obviously make it sound an anti-democratic decision since more then 50% voted against).
Also if they needed something like 60% of the voters to go out EU and there were "just" 52%, it would be quite hard to govern with MORE then half of your people against you.
Here in the US we regularly have referendums that require a super majority. Weed would be legal or medical in a few more states at the very least if we did it at 50%. Our constitution requires like 75% of the states to ratify an amendment as well
[quote=cirlo][quote=Wari]So why is something this big allowed to pass without a super majority?
t. American[/quote]
That was an advisory referendum. That means that POTENTIALLY the goverment could not listen to the brits (that would obviously make it sound an anti-democratic decision since more then 50% voted against).
Also if they needed something like 60% of the voters to go out EU and there were "just" 52%, it would be quite hard to govern with MORE then half of your people against you.[/quote]
Here in the US we regularly have referendums that require a super majority. Weed would be legal or medical in a few more states at the very least if we did it at 50%. Our constitution requires like 75% of the states to ratify an amendment as well
#260
Because it doesn't have any impact at all. The PM is free to ignore it forever which is literally what Cameron did.
The next PM could do the same without any repercussions.
Cameron resigned though because he promised to do whatever the vote said, while expecting that "remain" would win so the "eurosceptics" would finally shut up.
Realistically though they have to get it over with fast so Cameron essentially blocking any progress until October is terrible. It's on the table now and the UK is losing money as we speak just because of that.
#260
Because it doesn't have any impact at all. The PM is free to ignore it forever which is literally what Cameron did.
The next PM could do the same without any repercussions.
Cameron resigned though because he promised to do whatever the vote said, while expecting that "remain" would win so the "eurosceptics" would finally shut up.
Realistically though they have to get it over with fast so Cameron essentially blocking any progress until October is terrible. It's on the table now and the UK is losing money as we speak just because of that.
eeePpl were aware that the housing market was propping up the economy and quite a few economists saw the crash. Just because you dont know where the money is doesnt make the experts wrong
There was the knowledge that debt was propping up the economy (a lot in mortgages) because that was the design, the supposed repackaging of toxic debt into safe bundles, junk bonds on steroids. A tiny handful of doomsayers spoke out but they carried no authority, while the architects of the financial "innovations" were given nobel prizes. Nobody big like the IMF, the EU, any central banks, credit ratings agencies, etc moved until it was too late. Those are the institutions predicting doom now and their failure makes it too easy to discredit them.
Credit ratings agencies that passed Greece as AAA safe 10 years ago are downgrading the UK. It doesn't have the impact it once had, even if this time they're right. That's why we have a zombie economy now, nobody has any other ideas other than to extend debt again, but there is no way to do it safely.
e: I've just been reminded of one of Michael Gove's lines during the campaign: “People in this country have had enough of experts.”. Says it all really.
SetsulBecause it doesn't have any impact at all. The PM is free to ignore it forever which is literally what Cameron did.
The next PM could do the same without any repercussions.
Not without repercussions, it would be political suicide - they would destroy their popular vote at the next election and breathe new life into their rivals on the right who have now been completely neutralised. Also some legal opinion is that the next time Cameron meets his EU counterparts that would trigger exit negotiations regardless of intent.
[quote=eee]Ppl were aware that the housing market was propping up the economy and quite a few economists saw the crash. Just because you dont know where the money is doesnt make the experts wrong[/quote]
There was the knowledge that debt was propping up the economy (a lot in mortgages) because that was the design, the supposed repackaging of toxic debt into safe bundles, junk bonds on steroids. A tiny handful of doomsayers spoke out but they carried no authority, while the architects of the financial "innovations" were given nobel prizes. Nobody big like the IMF, the EU, any central banks, credit ratings agencies, etc moved until it was too late. Those are the institutions predicting doom now and their failure makes it too easy to discredit them.
Credit ratings agencies that passed Greece as AAA safe 10 years ago are downgrading the UK. It doesn't have the impact it once had, even if this time they're right. That's why we have a zombie economy now, nobody has any other ideas other than to extend debt again, but there is no way to do it safely.
e: I've just been reminded of one of Michael Gove's lines during the campaign: “People in this country have had enough of experts.”. Says it all really.
[quote=Setsul]Because it doesn't have any impact at all. The PM is free to ignore it forever which is literally what Cameron did.
The next PM could do the same without any repercussions.[/quote]
Not without repercussions, it would be political suicide - they would destroy their popular vote at the next election and breathe new life into their rivals on the right who have now been completely neutralised. Also some legal opinion is that the next time Cameron meets his EU counterparts that would trigger exit negotiations regardless of intent.
I should've been clearer, I meant technically.
It's still pretty much what he's doing. Yes it's political suicide which is why he's resigning.
Also exit negotations being triggered regardless of intent would be rather bizarre.
I should've been clearer, I meant technically.
It's still pretty much what he's doing. Yes it's political suicide which is why he's resigning.
Also exit negotations being triggered regardless of intent would be rather bizarre.
SetsulI should've been clearer, I meant technically.
It's still pretty much what he's doing. Yes it's political suicide which is why he's resigning.
Also exit negotations being triggered regardless of intent would be rather bizarre.
For him personally losing was the suicide part.
The theory is that just by turning up and talking about it he's invoking the relevant article. I'm not sure that's the case or that other EU ministers will interpret it that way, and at this stage every opinion is dripping with undeclared interests. Not the opinion of an idiot though, a Prof in international relations or similar at Oxford.
[quote=Setsul]I should've been clearer, I meant technically.
It's still pretty much what he's doing. Yes it's political suicide which is why he's resigning.
Also exit negotations being triggered regardless of intent would be rather bizarre.[/quote]
For him personally losing was the suicide part.
The theory is that just by turning up and talking about it he's invoking the relevant article. I'm not sure that's the case or that other EU ministers will interpret it that way, and at this stage every opinion is dripping with undeclared interests. Not the opinion of an idiot though, a Prof in international relations or similar at Oxford.
Am I too late to post this?
http://vid.pr0gramm.com/2016/06/25/87c1c3df3717e8fd.mp4
[img]http://i.imgur.com/0ljEYwR.jpg[/img]
GentlemanJonThere was the knowledge that debt was propping up the economy (a lot in mortgages) because that was the design, the supposed repackaging of toxic debt into safe bundles, junk bonds on steroids. A tiny handful of doomsayers spoke out but they carried no authority, while the architects of the financial "innovations" were given nobel prizes. Nobody big like the IMF, the EU, any central banks, credit ratings agencies, etc moved until it was too late. Those are the institutions predicting doom now and their failure makes it too easy to discredit them.
Credit ratings agencies that passed Greece as AAA safe 10 years ago are downgrading the UK. It doesn't have the impact it once had, even if this time they're right. That's why we have a zombie economy now, nobody has any other ideas other than to extend debt again, but there is no way to do it safely.
e: I've just been reminded of one of Michael Gove's lines during the campaign: “People in this country have had enough of experts.”. Says it all really.
No one is going to say "don't invest" that's dumb. Financial analysts were aware that the market would eventually collapse but they were trying to make money and support it as long as possible, so of course they're not going to publicly mention the likelihood of a global recession. They got nobel prizes because the net benefit of propping up housing loans was still positive. People made money, people had homes, and overall, the recession didn't outpace the money everyone made.
That's different than now because they're looking at an event that hurts their bottom line and flat out saying its a bad idea.
The anti-intellectualism is kind of appalling in that quote. If people are so tired of experts, they should remove all licensing for things like lawyers and doctors then.
[quote=GentlemanJon]
There was the knowledge that debt was propping up the economy (a lot in mortgages) because that was the design, the supposed repackaging of toxic debt into safe bundles, junk bonds on steroids. A tiny handful of doomsayers spoke out but they carried no authority, while the architects of the financial "innovations" were given nobel prizes. Nobody big like the IMF, the EU, any central banks, credit ratings agencies, etc moved until it was too late. Those are the institutions predicting doom now and their failure makes it too easy to discredit them.
Credit ratings agencies that passed Greece as AAA safe 10 years ago are downgrading the UK. It doesn't have the impact it once had, even if this time they're right. That's why we have a zombie economy now, nobody has any other ideas other than to extend debt again, but there is no way to do it safely.
e: I've just been reminded of one of Michael Gove's lines during the campaign: “People in this country have had enough of experts.”. Says it all really.
[/quote]
No one is going to say "don't invest" that's dumb. Financial analysts were aware that the market would eventually collapse but they were trying to make money and support it as long as possible, so of course they're not going to publicly mention the likelihood of a global recession. They got nobel prizes because the net benefit of propping up housing loans was still positive. People made money, people had homes, and overall, the recession didn't outpace the money everyone made.
That's different than now because they're looking at an event that hurts their bottom line and flat out saying its a bad idea.
The anti-intellectualism is kind of appalling in that quote. If people are so tired of experts, they should remove all licensing for things like lawyers and doctors then.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
thats a whole lot of signatures
Also Farage said in May that a 48-52 (in remains favour) result would call for a 2nd referendum. Not going to be surprised when suddenly that won't apply anymore.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
thats a whole lot of signatures
Also Farage said in May that a 48-52 (in remains favour) result would call for a 2nd referendum. Not going to be surprised when suddenly that won't apply anymore.
Permzillahttps://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
thats a whole lot of signatures
Also Farage said in May that a 48-52 (in remains favour) result would call for a 2nd referendum. Not going to be surprised when suddenly that won't apply anymore.
I'm sure if the vote went the other way and this petition was created afterwards, then it wouldn't be news worthy but still equally pointless.
http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/4EB5/production/_90094102_mediaitem90093124.jpg
Democracy and shit innit?
[quote=Permzilla]https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
thats a whole lot of signatures
Also Farage said in May that a 48-52 (in remains favour) result would call for a 2nd referendum. Not going to be surprised when suddenly that won't apply anymore.[/quote]
I'm sure if the vote went the other way and this petition was created afterwards, then it wouldn't be news worthy but still equally pointless.
[img]http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/4EB5/production/_90094102_mediaitem90093124.jpg[/img]
Democracy and shit innit?
RussianGuyovichPermzillahttps://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
thats a whole lot of signatures
Also Farage said in May that a 48-52 (in remains favour) result would call for a 2nd referendum. Not going to be surprised when suddenly that won't apply anymore.
I'm sure if the vote went the other way and this petition was created afterwards, then it wouldn't be news worthy but still equally pointless.
I don't expect the petition to do anything but it's still a whole lot of signatures for the amount of time since the result. Didn't mean anything more than that.
From reading the news today there seems to be a lot of people who voted leave changing their minds, although I'm not sure if the media is simply being selective to try to prove a bias. I honestly think that if there was another referendum that remain would win, but I don't think there will be another one.
[quote=RussianGuyovich][quote=Permzilla]https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
thats a whole lot of signatures
Also Farage said in May that a 48-52 (in remains favour) result would call for a 2nd referendum. Not going to be surprised when suddenly that won't apply anymore.[/quote]
I'm sure if the vote went the other way and this petition was created afterwards, then it wouldn't be news worthy but still equally pointless.[/quote]
I don't expect the petition to do anything but it's still a whole lot of signatures for the amount of time since the result. Didn't mean anything more than that.
From reading the news today there seems to be a lot of people who voted leave changing their minds, although I'm not sure if the media is simply being selective to try to prove a bias. I honestly think that [b]if[/b] there was another referendum that remain would win, but I don't think there will be another one.
PermzillaI don't expect the petition to do anything but it's still a whole lot of signatures for the amount of time since the result. Didn't mean anything more than that.
Well it's not that surprising considering 16 million voters are against the outcome and it's still fresh in our minds.
From reading the news today there seems to be a lot of people who voted leave changing their minds, although I'm not sure if the media is simply being selective to try to prove a bias.
No doubt! This result goes against their best interests afterall.
I honestly think that if there was another referendum that remain would win, but I don't think there will be another one
Maybe, maybe not. The decision's been made and now we must move on.
[quote=Permzilla]
I don't expect the petition to do anything but it's still a whole lot of signatures for the amount of time since the result. Didn't mean anything more than that.[/quote]
Well it's not that surprising considering 16 million voters are against the outcome and it's still fresh in our minds.
[quote]From reading the news today there seems to be a lot of people who voted leave changing their minds, although I'm not sure if the media is simply being selective to try to prove a bias.[/quote]
No doubt! This result goes against their best interests afterall.
[quote]I honestly think that if there was another referendum that remain would win, but I don't think there will be another one[/quote]
Maybe, maybe not. The decision's been made and now we must move on.