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MAJOR TF2 update for 6/18/14 (6/19/14, Love & War)
451
#451
17 Frags +

I guess i rushed it with the promod idea and all the reasons brought up make sense.
I still hope tho tha valve slightly changes the nerf to something more reasonable

I guess i rushed it with the promod idea and all the reasons brought up make sense.
I still hope tho tha valve slightly changes the nerf to something more reasonable
452
#452
1 Frags +
TendaMonstakeepertonRegarding the ScoRes: is it even affected by the arm time ramp up? I don't mean "it takes longer to arm," but does it have that mechanic built into it now too? I think it's pretty important to remember that the thing shoots stickies out faster too. Not arguing that it's the new meta, but I'd be interested to see people experiment with it in the new environment.
All stickies are effected by this change, but keep in mind with the ScoRes it hardly matters because of the extended arm time. Although I'm poor at theory crafting I can't really see the ScoRes being that useful (yes it's that bad) mostly because it's so damn easy to dodge and what good is all that blue if you can barely do anything worth while because of it's sole downside. Seems like it's supposed to be better defensively but I don't really think that's the case at all.

I'd rather get some damage than no damage until someone runs into a stickytrap.

You messed up the formatting a little bit, but thanks for the response and information regarding the ramp up.

I realize the ScoRes will by no means become the standard, nor do I expect it to. The things I always liked about it that I thought were overlooked was that it had the fast firing speed and ability to destroy other stickies. What with stickies now being nerfed, making traps more...efficient (I guess?), you could destroy them more easily with a single sticky and/or clear off last cap. I'm not sure, could still be fun to mess around with, but obviously hard to aggress with due to the arm time. I think if the meta shifts to demomen being more campy we could see it more, but still probably won't for whatever multitude of reasons. I still do like the idea of spraying stickies everywhere with the thing though, as inefficient, thoughtless, or ineffective as that probably is.

[quote=TendaMonsta][quote=keeperton]
Regarding the ScoRes: is it even affected by the arm time ramp up? I don't mean "it takes longer to arm," but does it have that mechanic built into it now too? I think it's pretty important to remember that the thing shoots stickies out faster too. Not arguing that it's the new meta, but I'd be interested to see people experiment with it in the new environment.[/quote]

All stickies are effected by this change, but keep in mind with the ScoRes it hardly matters because of the extended arm time. Although I'm poor at theory crafting I can't really see the ScoRes being that useful (yes it's that bad) mostly because it's so damn easy to dodge and what good is all that blue if you can barely do anything worth while because of it's sole downside. Seems like it's supposed to be better defensively but I don't really think that's the case at all.

I'd rather get some damage than no damage until someone runs into a stickytrap.[/quote]

You messed up the formatting a little bit, but thanks for the response and information regarding the ramp up.

I realize the ScoRes will by no means become the standard, nor do I expect it to. The things I always liked about it that I thought were overlooked was that it had the fast firing speed and ability to destroy other stickies. What with stickies now being nerfed, making traps more...efficient (I guess?), you could destroy them more easily with a single sticky and/or clear off last cap. I'm not sure, could still be fun to mess around with, but obviously hard to aggress with due to the arm time. I think if the meta shifts to demomen being more campy we could see it more, but still probably won't for whatever multitude of reasons. I still do like the idea of spraying stickies everywhere with the thing though, as inefficient, thoughtless, or ineffective as that probably is.
453
#453
-39 Frags +

ya kaneco ur right its not like for 7 years before the update a point blank sticky did 130+ or some shit

i dont know where else to go but point out that you have no ability to play this game competitively whatsoever so you typing paragraphs about how the game works is pretty moot

tf2 is a class based game

this means classes have specialization

balancing the game by buffing the weaknesses of these classes is fucking stupid

demo is still pretty good at supporting his team midrange and a sticky pipe still kills a lot of stuff close range

you can go back to begging every na site owner to merge theirs with comp.tf now, you arent contributing here at all

ya kaneco ur right its not like for 7 years before the update a point blank sticky did 130+ or some shit

i dont know where else to go but point out that you have no ability to play this game competitively whatsoever so you typing paragraphs about how the game works is pretty moot

tf2 is a class based game

this means classes have specialization

balancing the game by buffing the weaknesses of these classes is fucking stupid

demo is still pretty good at supporting his team midrange and a sticky pipe still kills a lot of stuff close range

you can go back to begging every na site owner to merge theirs with comp.tf now, you arent contributing here at all
454
#454
0 Frags +

Mids are more fun to watch too. Demos don't shut it down right away. They last longer and will have more time to develop. Players who DM religiously should love this.

Mids are more fun to watch too. Demos don't shut it down right away. They last longer and will have more time to develop. Players who DM religiously should love this.
455
#455
16 Frags +

This is the end of the line boys. Game is meant for bronies and furries who want to have a social experience in-game from now on.

This is the end of the line boys. Game is meant for bronies and furries who want to have a social experience in-game from now on.
456
#456
-6 Frags +
KanecoYou remember when you feel helpless 1v1ing a decent scout, now it will be even worse.

or you could just practice pipe aim

[quote=Kaneco]You remember when you feel helpless 1v1ing a decent scout, now it will be even worse.[/quote]

or you could just practice pipe aim
457
#457
16 Frags +
KanecomKanecoif anything, demo needed a buff at close range combat not a nerf.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEoTQB7h3NQ
Nice argument mason

Try to actually play the class and read what I said again.

It didn't need a close range nerf, if anything it needed a long range nerf, like damage fall off on distance like rockets, less stickies, damage nerf when more than 1 demo per team. Close range is actually the biggest weakness of the class, and you are taking one of the demo most reliable weapons (albeit still very unreliable) at close range and nerfing it even more.

You remember when you feel helpless 1v1ing a decent scout, now it will be even worse. There's no other class so reliant on other classes for selfdefense as the demo. Its even worse now.

Thats the point, are you guys trolling?

Scouts are going to be rewarded more heavily for catching demos with their pants down, AS IT SHOULD BE, and demos are going to have to mentally play more defensive with pre-set sticky traps and be more conservative overall with their ammo and cautious with their dets.

Old case: Scout facerushes you, you throw two stickies on the ground, if the scout semi-dodges he probably still dies from 60-70 splash damage

New case: Scout facerushes you, you throw a sticky on the ground, det, and switch to pipes.

Advanced new case: Demomans not retarded, has 2 stickies on a corner near himself, dets the scout who flanked him, rewarding him for playing on the scouts aggression.

You people need to adjust. The problem was that a demo spamming 8 stickies into a crowd during a mid fight did splash damage to 2-3 people at a time with easier execution than a rocket.

Anyone saying 'up the class limit' clearly hasnt thought about that at all... try pushing and last point without having to pop uber immediately through every chokepoint due to there being multiple traps set up, or going to mid with 1 demo spamming your doorway with another spamming your low ground on badlands mid.

Also, who are you guys to say Valve abandoned us for 7 years?

This game has come a long way since 2007, if there was ever a problem for an invite player or competitive TF2 in general, Robin always helped us. To say Valve forgot about competitive TF2 or ignored it is a lie.

This one patch just changed the game significantly, and if you ask me, this game needed to be changed significantly.

This shit opens up the door for a lot of teams to catch up to the invite mentality and figure out the balance mechanics and what strats may and may not be viable.

It's a shame carnage quit though, this patch is going to be the patch for scouts. 8)

[quote=Kaneco][quote=m][quote=Kaneco]if anything, demo needed a buff at close range combat not a nerf.

[/quote]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEoTQB7h3NQ[/youtube][/quote]
Nice argument mason

Try to actually play the class and read what I said again.

It didn't need a close range nerf, if anything it needed a long range nerf, like damage fall off on distance like rockets, less stickies, damage nerf when more than 1 demo per team. Close range is actually the biggest weakness of the class, and you are taking one of the demo most reliable weapons (albeit still very unreliable) at close range and nerfing it even more.

You remember when you feel helpless 1v1ing a decent scout, now it will be even worse. There's no other class so reliant on other classes for selfdefense as the demo. Its even worse now.[/quote]

Thats the point, are you guys trolling?

Scouts are going to be rewarded more heavily for catching demos with their pants down, AS IT SHOULD BE, and demos are going to have to mentally play more defensive with pre-set sticky traps and be more conservative overall with their ammo and cautious with their dets.

Old case: Scout facerushes you, you throw two stickies on the ground, if the scout semi-dodges he probably still dies from 60-70 splash damage

New case: Scout facerushes you, you throw a sticky on the ground, det, and switch to pipes.

Advanced new case: Demomans not retarded, has 2 stickies on a corner near himself, dets the scout who flanked him, rewarding him for playing on the scouts aggression.

You people need to adjust. The problem was that a demo spamming 8 stickies into a crowd during a mid fight did splash damage to 2-3 people at a time with easier execution than a rocket.

Anyone saying 'up the class limit' clearly hasnt thought about that at all... try pushing and last point without having to pop uber immediately through every chokepoint due to there being multiple traps set up, or going to mid with 1 demo spamming your doorway with another spamming your low ground on badlands mid.

Also, who are you guys to say Valve abandoned us for 7 years?

This game has come a long way since 2007, if there was ever a problem for an invite player or competitive TF2 in general, Robin always helped us. To say Valve forgot about competitive TF2 or ignored it is a lie.

This one patch just changed the game significantly, and if you ask me, this game needed to be changed significantly.

This shit opens up the door for a lot of teams to catch up to the invite mentality and figure out the balance mechanics and what strats may and may not be viable.

It's a shame carnage quit though, this patch is going to be the patch for scouts. 8)
458
#458
2 Frags +

These are some way I thought of the demo and heavy nerf. With testing they might change but theoretically they are as follows;

Considering the nerf, sticky traps will be more about placement and being actual traps and less about crowd control and spam.

Holding choke points now will rely on the detonation timing of a demo. Let's say he dets on an over-extending scout, now the damage of other teammates watching point will be more relevant for those 2 seconds before the demo will put out decent damage.

Demo pipe aim will be penalized more so now if it isn't well enough to connect.

Mid fights will leave a bit more room for scouts which will spread the responsibility to defending territorial control to soldiers.

With heavy nerf, jumping soldiers will have more room to bomb medic which will need more attention from other classes. This is more highlander-centric and 6s last defense.

Defending with heavy becomes less viable in smaller last points like badlands. In bigger last points like granary it'll be a bit easier. Switching to pyro then might become more common.

My overall opinion, just because a sticky does even 80% less damage, why would I even wanna walk through that knowing he may have 7 other stickies to go?

These are some way I thought of the demo and heavy nerf. With testing they might change but theoretically they are as follows;

Considering the nerf, sticky traps will be more about placement and being actual traps and less about crowd control and spam.

Holding choke points now will rely on the detonation timing of a demo. Let's say he dets on an over-extending scout, now the damage of other teammates watching point will be more relevant for those 2 seconds before the demo will put out decent damage.

Demo pipe aim will be penalized more so now if it isn't well enough to connect.

Mid fights will leave a bit more room for scouts which will spread the responsibility to defending territorial control to soldiers.

With heavy nerf, jumping soldiers will have more room to bomb medic which will need more attention from other classes. This is more highlander-centric and 6s last defense.

Defending with heavy becomes less viable in smaller last points like badlands. In bigger last points like granary it'll be a bit easier. Switching to pyro then might become more common.

My overall opinion, just because a sticky does even 80% less damage, why would I even wanna walk through that knowing he may have 7 other stickies to go?
459
#459
5 Frags +
yankeeKanecoYou remember when you feel helpless 1v1ing a decent scout, now it will be even worse.
or you could just practice pipe aim

Since when are pipes reliable? Any projectile weapon is unreliable, even more at close range and even then you take self damage from it. You need a hitscan weapon of some sort or a no self dmg weapon to have some realiable close range defense mechanism. And no, melee is not reliable either.

Maybe if the damage ramp up nerf included self damage, so it promoted a more agressive playstyle altogether it would actually be a logic balance, not like this

[quote=yankee][quote=Kaneco]You remember when you feel helpless 1v1ing a decent scout, now it will be even worse.[/quote]

or you could just practice pipe aim[/quote]

Since when are pipes reliable? Any projectile weapon is unreliable, even more at close range and even then you take self damage from it. You need a hitscan weapon of some sort or a no self dmg weapon to have some realiable close range defense mechanism. And no, melee is not reliable either.

Maybe if the damage ramp up nerf included self damage, so it promoted a more agressive playstyle altogether it would actually be a logic balance, not like this
460
#460
-2 Frags +

Demo has been fine for 7 years, i've been maining it for 2 years and all was fine and good and now they come with this bullshit?

Demo has been fine for 7 years, i've been maining it for 2 years and all was fine and good and now they come with this bullshit?
461
#461
5 Frags +

In years of competitive TF2 there has never been a talk about demoman being OP in close range, he doesn't even have a close range weapon...

I can follow your guys rationale being a promode-like plugin/mod hurting the scene but look at COD4, the mod made the game playable competitively and if we make our amazing (fps improvements, more options, etc.) I cant really see why it's such a bad thing.

r4ptureThe second option is to just man up and deal with it. It sucks? Sure does.Give it time.

Why exactly do we need to bend over and take this change? It's obviously gonna make demos much more underpowered, you can no longer punish a player/players who are overextended quickly, if a scout jumps you you are pretty much dead, poping kritz trough a choke is no longer an option.

Yes it's gonna change the meta and players will eventually adapt but why? Because Valve thought so?

mi dont know where else to go but point out that you have no ability to play this game competitively whatsoever so you typing paragraphs about how the game works is pretty moot
(...)
you can go back to begging every na site owner to merge theirs with comp.tf now, you arent contributing here at all

Holy shit u mad? Acting like a 12 year old redbull junkie wont contribute nothing either...

In years of competitive TF2 there has never been a talk about demoman being OP in close range, he doesn't even have a close range weapon...

I can follow your guys rationale being a promode-like plugin/mod hurting the scene but look at COD4, the mod made the game playable competitively and if we make our amazing (fps improvements, more options, etc.) I cant really see why it's such a bad thing.

[quote=r4pture]The second option is to just man up and deal with it. It sucks? Sure does.Give it time.[/quote]
Why exactly do we need to bend over and take this change? It's obviously gonna make demos much more underpowered, you can no longer punish a player/players who are overextended quickly, if a scout jumps you you are pretty much dead, poping kritz trough a choke is no longer an option.

Yes it's gonna change the meta and players will eventually adapt but why? Because Valve thought so?

[quote=m]i dont know where else to go but point out that you have no ability to play this game competitively whatsoever so you typing paragraphs about how the game works is pretty moot
(...)
you can go back to begging every na site owner to merge theirs with comp.tf now, you arent contributing here at all[/quote]
Holy shit u mad? Acting like a 12 year old redbull junkie wont contribute nothing either...
462
#462
8 Frags +

I think you're missing something...demoman is not supposed to be strong at close range. That's deliberately a weakness of the class as it is one of (if not the) the strongest mid and long range classes.

Not saying I like the change but your argument is not a good one

I think you're missing something...demoman is not [i]supposed[/i] to be strong at close range. That's deliberately a weakness of the class as it is one of (if not [i]the[/i]) the strongest mid and long range classes.

Not saying I like the change but your argument is not a good one
463
#463
0 Frags +
freakinI think you're missing something...demoman is not supposed to be strong at close range. That's deliberately a weakness of the class as it is one of (if not the) the strongest mid and long range classes.

Not saying I like the change but your argument is not a good one

Demoman was already weak in close range, now it cant do nothing.

[quote=freakin]I think you're missing something...demoman is not [i]supposed[/i] to be strong at close range. That's deliberately a weakness of the class as it is one of (if not [i]the[/i]) the strongest mid and long range classes.

Not saying I like the change but your argument is not a good one[/quote]

Demoman was already weak in close range, now it cant do nothing.
464
#464
-6 Frags +

hey look demo isnt cancer anymore its time to come back

hey look demo isnt cancer anymore its time to come back
465
#465
0 Frags +
DuckyfreakinI think you're missing something...demoman is not supposed to be strong at close range. That's deliberately a weakness of the class as it is one of (if not the) the strongest mid and long range classes.

Not saying I like the change but your argument is not a good one

Demoman was already weak in close range, now it cant do nothing.

Pipes? If you're buffed and near your medic, the self damage won't matter. If you need to get multiple close range kills and aren't near your medic, you're probably over extended or out of position.

Or if you're alone with your medic and therefore aren't being helped by your pocket or a scout...you're also out of position.

[quote=Ducky][quote=freakin]I think you're missing something...demoman is not [i]supposed[/i] to be strong at close range. That's deliberately a weakness of the class as it is one of (if not [i]the[/i]) the strongest mid and long range classes.

Not saying I like the change but your argument is not a good one[/quote]

Demoman was already weak in close range, now it cant do nothing.[/quote]
Pipes? If you're buffed and near your medic, the self damage won't matter. If you need to get multiple close range kills and aren't near your medic, you're probably over extended or out of position.

Or if you're alone with your medic and therefore aren't being helped by your pocket or a scout...you're also out of position.
466
#466
-3 Frags +
DuckyYes it's gonna change the meta and players will eventually adapt but why? Because Valve thought so?

It's their game annd we can't do anything about it but adapt, maybe they'll change it, maybe they won't, point is: Don't bitch about the inevitable.

[quote=Ducky]
Yes it's gonna change the meta and players will eventually adapt but why? Because Valve thought so?
[/quote]

It's their game annd we can't do anything about it but adapt, maybe they'll change it, maybe they won't, point is: Don't bitch about the inevitable.
467
#467
-1 Frags +
KanecoSince when are pipes reliable?

When you practice. I'm sorry that you don't have a 100% effective solution for killing +fwding scouts now, but this update doesn't change the fact that pipes still do a shitload of damage.

[quote=Kaneco]Since when are pipes reliable?[/quote]

When you practice. I'm sorry that you don't have a 100% effective solution for killing +fwding scouts now, but this update doesn't change the fact that pipes still do a shitload of damage.
468
#468
-9 Frags +
DuckyI can follow your guys rationale being a promode-like plugin/mod hurting the scene but look at COD4, the mod made the game playable competitively and if we make our amazing (fps improvements, more options, etc.) I cant really see why it's such a bad thing.
r4ptureThe second option is to just man up and deal with it. It sucks? Sure does.Give it time.It's obviously gonna make demos much more underpowered

1st take 1 look at the number of people who play CoD4 promod competitively, and then look at TF2 competitive, we have like 10x their numbers with 6s alone.

2nd You thought demos were underpowered that's possibly the biggest bullshit I've ever heard in TF2.

[quote=Ducky]I can follow your guys rationale being a promode-like plugin/mod hurting the scene but look at COD4, the mod made the game playable competitively and if we make our amazing (fps improvements, more options, etc.) I cant really see why it's such a bad thing.

[quote=r4pture]The second option is to just man up and deal with it. It sucks? Sure does.Give it time.[/quote]
It's obviously gonna make demos much more underpowered
[/quote]

1st take 1 look at the number of people who play CoD4 promod competitively, and then look at TF2 competitive, we have like 10x their numbers with 6s alone.

2nd You thought demos were [u]underpowered[/u] that's possibly the biggest bullshit I've ever heard in TF2.
469
#469
14 Frags +

I'm still not ok with this

I'm still not ok with this
470
#470
-10 Frags +

Honestly I just hope that the tide turner doesn't get banned. Demoknight was fun and pretty effective before the killed charge turning, but not many actually did it for multiple reasons. Some felt they were abusing an unintended mechanic, they didn't want to play with a controller/install vjoy etc. I've played on a team multiple times with a friend who plays demoknight with a controller, and he played it on my 6s team. You could still do effective rollouts with it and the loose cannon, you had decent area denial with it, and if you could reliably airbust with it, scouts could be fought. Airburst does about 60 damage if you hit it, and if you hit a double donk the scout probably died, and if you get the timing of the cannon down they're extremely reliable at close range, while not taking self damage. Not having stickies required both our soldiers to man up a bit and take over for the damage spam aspect. Demoknight could spearhead pushes and go for entry picks with the charge, and can often get med picks reliably. He was actually still top-damaging on the team with only the loose cannon spam and crit melees. He got 300-350 dpm reliably without sticks. Demoknight is just overall a fun subclass that is just now more viable in 6s because of the sticky nerf.

Edit: http://sizzlingstats.com/stats/181567 Demoknight doesng 427 dpm on snakewater.

Honestly I just hope that the tide turner doesn't get banned. Demoknight was fun and pretty effective before the killed charge turning, but not many actually did it for multiple reasons. Some felt they were abusing an unintended mechanic, they didn't want to play with a controller/install vjoy etc. I've played on a team multiple times with a friend who plays demoknight with a controller, and he played it on my 6s team. You could still do effective rollouts with it and the loose cannon, you had decent area denial with it, and if you could reliably airbust with it, scouts could be fought. Airburst does about 60 damage if you hit it, and if you hit a double donk the scout probably died, and if you get the timing of the cannon down they're extremely reliable at close range, while not taking self damage. Not having stickies required both our soldiers to man up a bit and take over for the damage spam aspect. Demoknight could spearhead pushes and go for entry picks with the charge, and can often get med picks reliably. He was actually still top-damaging on the team with only the loose cannon spam and crit melees. He got 300-350 dpm reliably without sticks. Demoknight is just overall a fun subclass that is just now more viable in 6s because of the sticky nerf.

Edit: http://sizzlingstats.com/stats/181567 Demoknight doesng 427 dpm on snakewater.
471
#471
23 Frags +

why is everyone talking about close range fights and 1v1s?
getting into a lot of those situations is poor play

what we should really be talking about is holding chokepoints and aggressive spam

it'll be much harder to hold a team out of a chokepoint now as once the initial stickies are destroyed/knocked away all a demo has left is continual spam which now does far less damage. whether this is a good thing or a bad thing isnt 100% but i'd definitely speculate that it's bad. i can just imagine a huge clusterfuck all the time if demos cant keep people out of chokepoints. the good maps currently dont let people through chokepoints easily and no-one complains about that (as far as i can tell).
some maps are definitely too chokey but in my eyes the solution to this is with the map itself rather than the sticky launcher.

the demo is also really important in non-uber pushes when he suddenly charges forwards doing a huge amount of damage at the right time. numlocked was really good at knowing when to do this and it was a key factor in epsilon's success and aggressiveness. imagine trying to non-uber push into a heavy without sticky damage, it would be over before it had begun. and i think the fact that demo cant hold chokes reliably coupled with the fact the heavy cant be damaged as easily will mean heavy becomes more viable. again, just speculation.

i've not played scrims with these changes yet and i'll reserve judgement until i do - it just sucks that it came out in the middle of a season and so close to lan.

why is everyone talking about close range fights and 1v1s?
getting into a lot of those situations is poor play

what we should really be talking about is holding chokepoints and aggressive spam

it'll be much harder to hold a team out of a chokepoint now as once the initial stickies are destroyed/knocked away all a demo has left is continual spam which now does far less damage. whether this is a good thing or a bad thing isnt 100% but i'd definitely [i]speculate[/i] that it's bad. i can just imagine a huge clusterfuck all the time if demos cant keep people out of chokepoints. the good maps currently dont let people through chokepoints easily and no-one complains about that (as far as i can tell).
some maps are definitely too chokey but in my eyes the solution to this is with the map itself rather than the sticky launcher.

the demo is also really important in non-uber pushes when he suddenly charges forwards doing a huge amount of damage at the right time. numlocked was really good at knowing when to do this and it was a key factor in epsilon's success and aggressiveness. imagine trying to non-uber push into a heavy without sticky damage, it would be over before it had begun. and i think the fact that demo cant hold chokes reliably coupled with the fact the heavy cant be damaged as easily will mean heavy becomes more viable. again, just [i]speculation[/i].

i've not played scrims with these changes yet and i'll reserve judgement until i do - it just sucks that it came out in the middle of a season and so close to lan.
472
#472
7 Frags +
yankeeKanecoSince when are pipes reliable?
When you practice. I'm sorry that you don't have a 100% effective solution for killing +fwding scouts now, but this update doesn't change the fact that pipes still do a shitload of damage.

Its not reliable, even if you practice, you can hit 80% of them and its still not reliable. Its a projectile weapon, that makes it prediction based, thus, not reliable.

A reliable weapon is a hitscan weapon or similar, you aim for a place and you hit that place 100% of the time, no exceptions, you dont have to predict anything and your success is not dependent on the will or movement of the person you are trying to hit, because if you are aiming for him you will hit him 100% of the time, because it's not prediction based.

You can have godly pipe aim, it still doesn't make pipes a reliable self defense weapon.

[quote=yankee][quote=Kaneco]Since when are pipes reliable?[/quote]

When you practice. I'm sorry that you don't have a 100% effective solution for killing +fwding scouts now, but this update doesn't change the fact that pipes still do a shitload of damage.[/quote]
Its not reliable, even if you practice, you can hit 80% of them and its still not reliable. Its a projectile weapon, that makes it prediction based, thus, not reliable.

A reliable weapon is a hitscan weapon or similar, you aim for a place and you hit that place 100% of the time, no exceptions, you dont have to predict anything and your success is not dependent on the will or movement of the person you are trying to hit, because if you are aiming for him you will hit him 100% of the time, because it's not prediction based.

You can have godly pipe aim, it still doesn't make pipes a reliable self defense weapon.
473
#473
38 Frags +

you just gotta 2 pipe every scout who tries to kill you, its easy

you just have to choose to never miss again

you just gotta 2 pipe every scout who tries to kill you, its easy

you just have to choose to never miss again
474
#474
-1 Frags +
yankeeKanecoSince when are pipes reliable?A reliable weapon is a hitscan weapon or similar, you aim for a place and you hit that place 100% of the time, no exceptions, you dont have to predict anything and your success is not dependent on the will or movement of the person you are trying to hit, because if you are aiming for him you will hit him 100% of the time, because it's not prediction based.

this is pretty much true of pipes at close range

[quote=yankee][quote=Kaneco]Since when are pipes reliable?[/quote]
A reliable weapon is a hitscan weapon or similar, you aim for a place and you hit that place 100% of the time, no exceptions, you dont have to predict anything and your success is not dependent on the will or movement of the person you are trying to hit, because if you are aiming for him you will hit him 100% of the time, because it's not prediction based.
[/quote]
this is pretty much true of pipes at close range
475
#475
Ascent
45 Frags +

Would've made a lot more sense for the update to be: Sticky Bombs do 15% less damage.

That way you can no longer kill a 125 HP class with a single sticky, the max damage you could do would be 117.

I'm pretty confident valve will change this though, it's sort of what happened with the quick fix before, they made a much to drastic change to the weapon and then found a middle ground between the original stats and the changed stats to make it a better rounded item.

Would've made a lot more sense for the update to be: Sticky Bombs do 15% less damage.

That way you can no longer kill a 125 HP class with a single sticky, the max damage you could do would be 117.

I'm pretty confident valve will change this though, it's sort of what happened with the quick fix before, they made a much to drastic change to the weapon and then found a middle ground between the original stats and the changed stats to make it a better rounded item.
476
#476
8 Frags +

6 stickies for demo and stock damage as were before or, as ma3laa said - 15% less damage, but 8 sticks. That's the way tf2 is gonna roll, i really do hope so.

6 stickies for demo and stock damage as were before or, as ma3laa said - 15% less damage, but 8 sticks. That's the way tf2 is gonna roll, i really do hope so.
477
#477
4 Frags +
Ma3laaWould've made a lot more sense for the update to be: Sticky Bombs do 15% less damage.

That way you can no longer kill a 125 HP class with a single sticky, the max damage you could do would be 117.

I'm pretty confident valve will change this though, it's sort of what happened with the quick fix before, they made a much to drastic change to the weapon and then found a middle ground between the original stats and the changed stats to make it a better rounded item.

I think this is how valve should have nerfed it. This makes WAAAAY more sense to me than the damage ramp up

[quote=Ma3laa]Would've made a lot more sense for the update to be: Sticky Bombs do 15% less damage.

That way you can no longer kill a 125 HP class with a single sticky, the max damage you could do would be 117.

I'm pretty confident valve will change this though, it's sort of what happened with the quick fix before, they made a much to drastic change to the weapon and then found a middle ground between the original stats and the changed stats to make it a better rounded item.[/quote]

I think this is how valve should have nerfed it. This makes WAAAAY more sense to me than the damage ramp up
478
#478
6 Frags +

You have to run the sticky launcher to mid because it's so good. Then, once mid is capped and you're holding 2, teams are more hesitant to push since they lack the offensive capability of before to push through the enemy defenses. Instead, since the sticky launcher can't be used offensively, it has to be used defensively. Therefore, we just sit there and stare at each other.

Now replace sticky launcher with quick-fix.

You have to run the sticky launcher to mid because it's so good. Then, once mid is capped and you're holding 2, teams are more hesitant to push since they lack the offensive capability of before to push through the enemy defenses. Instead, since the sticky launcher can't be used offensively, it has to be used defensively. Therefore, we just sit there and stare at each other.

Now replace sticky launcher with quick-fix.
479
#479
2 Frags +
Buttnosesick change, just played a doublemix on demo vs kaidus and now that sticky trap camping skill-fraud has been unmasked for what he is. glad valve finally got round to it

all those hours in endif paying off

[quote=Buttnose]sick change, just played a doublemix on demo vs kaidus and now that sticky trap camping skill-fraud has been unmasked for what he is. glad valve finally got round to it[/quote]
all those hours in endif paying off
480
#480
8 Frags +

I'd definitely wager when they were playtesting the parachute thingy with the demo they are like, "this is too OP with stickies", how do we fix it? Delay the det charge. I doubt they thought it through too much tbh. Whether this turns out good or bad, Ill reserve my judgement for a couple weeks. Last nights scrims were fine.

I'd definitely wager when they were playtesting the parachute thingy with the demo they are like, "this is too OP with stickies", how do we fix it? Delay the det charge. I doubt they thought it through too much tbh. Whether this turns out good or bad, Ill reserve my judgement for a couple weeks. Last nights scrims were fine.
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