You should probably test these weapons yourself before suggesting them. I know you're invite, but I don't really think you understand how much these weapons would be used and abused. There's a reason they've been banned and I believe will stay banned.

Well you're right about this part. A pick ban system helps, but until valve (or the competitive community) makes changes to the rules for equipping unlocks, there's always gonna be that problem.

Ah yes, I remember the dreaded kritz spy plays that got the enforcer banned. It was a terrible time for 6s and im so glad its over now.
/s

All of the unlocks I listed are extremely situational. Seriously, in what game are forward engineers teleporting back to spawn, or spy unlocks ever going to be a problem? They might come into use once a game, but they have almost no reason to be banned. People could come up with some interesting strategies for them.

In the Persian Persuader's case, I think it'd be an interesting sidegrade on process mids to get another +20hp from the ammo pack if a demoman was struggling versus an enemy gunboat's rollouts. If a demo combined it with the booties, maybe they could actually skip their health pack entirely while pushing the enemy demoman with the health increase.

This sort of strategy is not a gamechanger. If people want to spend time coming up with creative ideas relating to these items, they should be allowed to.

http://whitelist.tf/1048

Red = Ban; Blue = Unban

Meet the Medic: Mostly because why not. Framerate complaints and whatnot.

Liberty Launcher: The damage-down is actually kind of a good balance in exchange for easier rockets to hit, and less damage from rocket jumps. If roamers really wanted to use it during stalemates to have that total of 75% less damage from rocket jumps (25% of 60%, my math on tf2 percentages and how the mix might be off) in order to kill the medic, it may or may not make a difference. No reason to have it banned since it's not game changing (3, sometimes even 4 rockets to kill any buffed/healing scout).

Concheror: Regardless of the fact you need to first build the rage, my real problem with this weapon is the speed boost. It's essentially a weaker buff banner, since it would be used in almost exactly the same way, but Team iT once made their scout/soldier get the speed boost enough to get them straight to the Gullywash last point fairly quick; notable point about concheror, in regards to its AoE, it can go through walls and work vertically, and make flank plays like this (iT Concheror Push on Gullywash). This weapon combines mad milk and disciplinary action in one backpack, using it essentially has no downsides because you're gonna build it safely with spam rockets, and the enemy team can't really counter it except maybe airblasting spam rockets away, which only stagnates the game further.

Phlogistinator: No reason to ban it because pyro on its own with Degreaser/Flamethrower has its niche as an uber diffuser, projectile counter, etc. Any player using this weapon would have to exploit really dumb players to not only build Mmmph, but then successfully charge up the flamethrower crits and net a few kills. We could see more unique pushes with Phlogistinator if the charge is built up, but it would punish a lot of lower-div teams in the hands of a Phlanking Phlog. This weapon gives pyro a chance to be an offensive class, in a gimmicky sort of way. Again, no real reason to ban it.

Splendid Screen: This weapon coupled with Claidheamh Mor is ridiculous, because the shield bash will always do damage no matter how far you've charged, and it will instantly crit after a shield bash, unlike the Chargin' Targe which has a near-frame-perfect window to get the critical hit. Demoknighting is gimmicky, but this weapon makes it viable to gain a kill or two every 15 seconds or so. Should've been banned before the Charge Turning was nerfed, but still has applications as a high-damage output on a single target. This is a weapon I'd consider unbanning if there's a good argument defending it.

Persian Persuader: This weapon should be unbanned if the Splendid Screen is banned. The tradeoff for ammo as health can be a downfall to your demoman. However, imagine a situation where you, the demoman, die while the enemy team captures the second point. You respawn after they've started pushing last, and either your fallen comrades ammo, or your victims ammo will supply you with health, even thought it's only 20 HP per weapon, but since you don't really need ammo for the 32 sticky bombs and 20 grenades that you just spawned with, maybe an ammo pickup will give you health to survive and pull off a clutch defense. I see Persian Persuader being more of a defensive weapon for holding last, since you have the resupply locker to get your ammo back. Again, I'd only allow this weapon to be unbanned if the Splendid Screen is banned.

Huo-Long Heater: Runs out of ammo in 15 seconds of continuous fire, 34 seconds of just being revved up. Essentially a straight upgrade from the Minigun if used in the short term, but if you can stay alive as heavy in a last push (8 seconds chewed up from uber time with you revving up on/off during that, plus any time used while firing), then Minigun would be a better choice because of the Ammo. The flames may have an FPS issue, if so I'd consider banning it, but the flames can do a minimum of 75 damage, assuming you don't stop afterburn. Can make close-quarter fights on last points like Badlands or Gullywash, even Snakewater a little more likely to hold because anything trying to stack the point will be hit by the flames. Again, it's probably a straight upgrade, but testing its use for a season could be interesting just to see how it affects certain scenarios.

Dalokahs Bar: This weapon can pretty much only be applicable if you spawn as heavy after your medic has died and is waiting on the respawn timer, the 50 HP can make a difference because then snipers would have to hit 3 shots, assuming the first two headshots connect and no other focus fire is done on the heavy. This is an item that really has no reason to ban it, since heavy is typically a last-point defense class, and not a flanking/push class.

Holiday Punch: Considering all 3 choices for Heavy Melees (Eviction Notice, Killing Gloves of Boxing, Warrior's Spirit), there's only really the KGB for heavy melee, aside from stock. It's a gimmicky weapon since you'd almost never be using melee anyway. But in rash situations, a melee could save the game. Holiday Punch is a direct upgrade from the Fists, because it'll still do 65 damage no matter what, unless it hits the enemy from the back. This effect works on ubered enemies, which can diffuse an uber if the heavy can cleanly flank an ubered combo. Think of the Holiday Punch as a Market Gardener for Heavy; straight upgrade from stock, gimmicky and last-restort-ish, but can add a new angle to the game at the tradeoff of not using a primary weapon. I'd consider banning this weapon if there is an argument really strong enough to call this weapon a guaranteed game changer.

Frontier Justice: Trading 6 shotgun shots for 3, on the off chance that any level 1/2/3 sentry you build gets a kill or assist, and can turn into a valuable last-resort weapon for when your gun goes down, and you're still alive. The revenge crits can turn engineer into a useful class, rather than just using gun and run tactics--where the sentry is destroyed and you switch back to scout or soldier. If an engineer has a successful sentry, the frontier justice can extend the engineer's usefulness. If the engineer doesn't have a successful sentry, then switching to your main class in spawn would be the choice. It is worth unbanning for a season to see if anyone uses it effectively enough, another one of those "no reason to be banned" weapons in my opinion, that can't really change the game except give engineer a little more usefulness at the tradeoff of 3 extra shotgun shots.

Southern Hospitality: Essentially a straight upgrade from the Wrench, but so is the Jag. No reason to ban if Jag is still unbanned.

Bazaar Bargain: I listed this as a ban when I first generated this list, but thinking about it now, the stock sniper rifle is just so good in its own purpose that any other weapon isn't really as necessary, and bazaar bargain requires at least 2 headshots before it can be an upgraded sniper rifle; but charging up shots may or may not be game changing when using the bazaar bargain. If anyone has any thoughts on the bazaar bargain being overpowered in a game-changing sense, I'll consider banning it.

Umm...

Phlog + Flaregun + Last Push + Uber = Kritzed Ubers.

No thank you.

cont'd

Cleaner's Carbine / Bushwacka: Let me start with Cleaner's Carbine should be allowed because it's a unique side-grade to the SMG, in that getting a kill can reward the sniper with minicrits; however, I'm on the fence with whether or not Cleaner's Carbine should be allowed if Bushwacka is allowed. I'd like this to be discussed because I can see mini-crit boosted Bushwacka being a playmaker, but I'm not sure if it would be overpowered or not. Pyro w/ Axtinguisher is allowed, and pyro has more HP than Sniper. Ultimately, I want to see Cleaner's Carbine unbanned, and the ethics of Bushwacka paired with this discussed.

L'Etranger: 40% extra cloak makes spy a lot more capable of getting into positions behind enemy lines, for literally no downside. You make it easier to get into position to kill your target. I've used L'Etranger in a match to go from badlands last main lobby to behind the point, but only because of the extra cloak. I'd like to see an argument that defends L'Etranger before I'd consider unbanning it.

Red-Tape Recorder: Sapper almost never gets use in 6s anyway, but this sapper is a straight upgrade to the regular Sapper. There is absolutely no downside to this weapon.

Your Eternal Reward: Identical to the spycicle in that kills are not read on the kill feed, can lead to some pretty awful chain stabs on maps like Badlands or Gullywash where the main combo is stacked so close to one another that getting the comms through that spy just backstabbed can be too late to save your teammates. Spy alone doesn't get that much use in 6s except for lasts, but it is really no different from the spycicle when used the same way; chain-stabbing.

Phlog pushes would be interesting to watch. Kritz Ubers aren't that bad when you have uber to defend anyway. It would probably have less use on maps like Snakewater and Granary where the distance from any entrance to the enemy team is so far, it'd be most used on maps like badlands and gullywash which can have stalematey lasts.

@rowrow:

I agree with you on almost every unbanning. Only exceptions are conch and FJ, and somewhat the phlog. (As was pointed out earlier, you can use the mmmph to have absurd damage resistance on gully last and survive all the sticks on point. The bazaar bargain should also remain banned because apparently that's glitched. If you hit a headshot, any subsequent bodyshots up the counter).

However, I disagree with you on every banning (save maybe MtM, where I don't have a preference).

The splendid screen is fine. You're losing stickies. Sure, you can use it for a gimmicky play, but your team will be worse off.

As you pointed out, pyro with the axtinguisher is allowed, so there's no reason to ban the bushwacka.

RTR is almost entirely irrelevant. I actually think it might be a downgrade to regular sapper, since in the extremely rare scenario that it matters, the extra damage from the sapper is usually enough to kill a gun with 2 rockets.

YER is fine being legal. How are you going to get a pick with it? DR? People will call you out. It's 6s. Regular watch? You're even easier to spot than a regular player.

The thing about Phlog is interesting, but that is game changing and I would consider that grounds to ban it, just like people complaining about quick fix capping points.

Concheror can make pushing lasts like Granary, Snakewater, Process, and Metalworks easier, with no downside to having it equipped. Building the rage takes time, but the enemy team can't really counter a concheror push any easier than countering a regular push.

Frontier Justice just gives a successful engineer a higher purpose during a push. If the sentry is unsuccessful, then there was no downside. All engineers I see just have the gun up, and either live to whack it with a wrench until its death, or let it die and switch back to their main. With Frontier Justice, they can make use of their fallen sentry, at the trade off of having up to 3 shots, potentially crit-boosted, as opposed to 4 rockets/6 scattergun shots by switching off engineer.

People use Chargin' Targe in 6s, so the reason for banning Splendid Screen is because it is a stronger Chargin' Targe, used in a different way.

I would love to see some Carbine/Bushwacka plays then, if both would be unbanned.

Like I said, sappers are used so rarely in 6s, but the point of the sapper is to disable the gun from being repaired while your demo/soldier/pistol spams it down. Red Tape has no downsides in that regard, but it's kind of a moot point to argue over since Spy is not used to attack the Sentry.

I wish there was a way to show YER being powerful, in the right hands definitely. Also sort of a moot point to argue over because people can get chain stabs with the Knife just as easily. But my argument focuses on the fact that it is essentially no different than the intended use of Spycicle (getting chain stabs).

Then have your invite team, who voted for them to be banned BTW, vote for them in ESEA next season. Would be very interesting I agree.

The targe is good because of the damage resistances.

The actual charging part is just gravy and lets you get to mid at a time that isn't unreasonable.

I never said that's what got it banned, obviously it was the increased damage over the revolver. Just stating that an enforcer crit can one shot a medic and most classes from any range. It was just a strategy I said people would run if it was allowed, not the reason it was banned. Please don't try to invalidate my point with this.

Edit: fuck phones

sniper rifle does 150 with a kritz. why isnt everyone running around rail gunning kritzed snipers?

matter of fact, yo froyo you idiots should be running clock sniper kritz 24/7 the fuck are you doing

difference between that and say, enforcer is enforcer has more DPS than sniper rifle, which has 150 dps max.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/candh/images/3/36/OverYourHead.PNG

I don't know what you're comparing full time kritz sniper to. Full time kritz sniper is just as viable as full time kritz "blank" ?

Ecks dee you're so fucking funny I'm falling out of my goddamn chair laughing.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20961143/Pics/gifs/WOVsj.gif

remove the loose cannon

You're making this discussion 100x worse.

You're smoking that good stuff. In all seriousness why?

why bother kritzing him when he gets all the crits he wants on his own

kritz enforcer is 144 btw

anyway the real reason everyone hates the enforcer is because it 2shots scouts point-blank and 3shots demos from not-point-blank (soldier gets 3shot w/ revolver at point-blank because of self-damage)

kritz spies are irrelevant to its annoyingness