The problem is that conch gives two humongous buffs while the other banners give you one good buff.

And the only NOT bannable banner is Buff Banner, because minicrits are a reasonable buff.

that's how it functions, but why does it need to be banned for that?

i don't see buff banner in 6s ever. you can actually pop conch and i suspect that's why people don't like it, because it does something.

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wow pyro sounds amazing, why isn't he run in 6s more.

crits on pyro's weapons don't mean shit when other classes outdamage him all the time. like all the time. soldiers/demos can already explosive stall classes and stuff ubers.

the thing is pyros have to put in far more effort for something resembling what the other combat classes can do effortlessly.

all i can get out of your post is that you feel entitled to be able to spam out pyros with rockets (RL is way easier than airblast timing). in a good soldier/pyro matchup the pyro is fucked unless the soldier makes a mistake.

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Isn't the rational behind banning the battalion's backup that it can nullify a kritz? Why is the vaccinator allowed then if it can totally mulch 4 crit stickies?

just because a class takes more effort doesn't mean it's less effective. have you ever seen a pyro defend last? clearly amazing.

what is CEVO's stance as far as bans go? are you trying to keep as many weapons unbanned as possible, or are you trying to ban things that aren't viable? i think you should try to keep as many weapons unbanned as possible.

in my opinion:

items that fall into the "not very good" category (i.e. dalokohs bar) should remain unbanned.

items that fall into the "straight upgrade but not gamebreaking" category (i.e. southern hospitality, escape plan) should also remain unbanned.

items that fall into the "ruins my FPS" category (i.e. medic taunt) should also remain unbanned if possible (taunt sliding is illegal, for example, so no need to ban the medic taunt).

items that can be exploited should be banned as well (i.e. high five taunt)

you should only really be banning gamebreaking weapons or weapons that slow the game down too much despite being bad (natascha). under this reasoning, items like conch should remain unbanned.

time to open up Quickfix discussion?

o wait , nevermind the meta will change and tf2 comp can change :O

I never ever want to see the quick fix in 6v6 again, and I'm going to bitch slap anyone that says the "meta shift" it brought about was in any way beneficial to this game.

It's too good to not run to mid. Which means you actually end up making the meta worse.

Can we ban gullywash?

Sorry for being kind of stupid but what's the main reason the Beggar's Bazooka is banned? I'd love to see what roamers can do with it, and it seems like you're at a huge disadvantage if you're defending with the Beggar's Bazooka unless you're in a really small room. Are there glitches with it?

the glitch is that its dumb pub garbage

I'm actually curious as to why it's overpowered or stupid. Maybe I'm just having a brain fart right now but I would appreciate it if someone could explain it to me. Sorry for being dumb.

If you don't know why the beggars is overpowered or stupid, look at sneakypolarbear using it in HL on lakeside. Pretty sure he got it banned for the next HL season after that. I know it's HL, but if a weapon is banned there, it usually should be for 6s too.

Inf. airpogo + 3 rockets on med. In any open maps like process for example, your med is dead no matter what u do about it. If it's an enclosed map or part of the map, then you already get the picture.

I know people will say 'but airpogoing around the map is hard' and 'but there is an offset on the rockets so it's hard to hit the medic', but in the reality of IM and invite players it really isn't at all.

That's actually not how the weapon works anymore.

3 rockets at once is a really dumb way to die trying to peek a choke

It's still really stupid to just have the ability to spam three rockets down a choke all at once.

Or just in general.

Can't you say the same about every other unlock or class that is run to mid in 6v6? Specifically the medigun.

yes, running anything to mid is too good, ban all classes

If we played 6v6 spectator only we'd finally reach the levels of balanced play needed to be a real esport

his point is you can talk yourself in circles about why this weapon is bad for 6s or you can just swallow your pride and try it out

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Well, first, you have to clarify your question, because now you're questioning the whole format of 6v6 vs. the impact of an unlock (EDIT: this is a whole different discussion and it doesn't really fit in this thread).

Let's not forget that besides its effectiveness on midfights (and pretty incredible dominance on KOTH IMO), there are other problems with the QF too, especially being able to cap while using the QF uber (whereas the medigun ubered medic and ubered targets don't contribute to capping), as well as the self-healing while using a Quick-Fix uber (remember when clockwork ran sniper for half the game on gully? S14 LAN never forget). It's incredibly too good for midfights and is still a little too good for other fights (partially because of the fast healing, partially because of the speedy uber building). This means that you have to run QF to be on even footing, because ubers are practically useless against a QF. The only other play is to use kritz, and while it's perfectly fine to have kritz plays, the way it's used to counter QF (which is, basically, build kritz the whole time while just stalemating as much as you can, because overextending into a QF hold means death), promotes almost only 1 playstyle (incredibly passive).

I hope that is sufficient enough reasoning to point out why the QF is not a good change in the meta. If I'm wrong on something, please correct me; but I believe I have all my facts and mental probabilities straight. I'm all for having more unlocks, but everything should be looked at with a careful eye, and it's my firm belief that the QF as it is right now is not good for the meta.

You're missing the entire point lmao. Without the quickfix in play you can either take Medigun or kritz to mid, both are viable depending on what you want to do and most of the time it won't have much to do with how the actual mid fight plays out. With Quickfix in play, you have two options: You either run quickfix to mid or you run kritz and you don't go to mid and try to bait the other team into your kritz which is both dumb and boring for everyone. Quickfix is not fun to play with, it's not fun to play against, we've already tried it. It's not fun period.

http://teamfortress.tv/thread/11550/esea-quick-fix-ruling/?page=1

The consensus was not as one-sided as you think. Players like Seagull and Platinum vouched hard for QF and made incredibly good points in its defense. On top of that, it's been a year and it hasn't been looked at once since the LAN.

and the "fun" argument is stupid

Man, re-reading that thread is painful. Too many strong feelings and not enough rational thought.

Both Plat and Seagull made good posts, but Plat included the provision of the QF needing a small nerf to be balanced in the meta. Which it still hasn't received.

Dropping Invite names isn't the best way to get your point across.

I agree that quick fix is pretty much the best medigun. I was questioning the logic that it would somehow create less variety than there already is. Teams don't run anything but the medigun in most situations already, qf doesn't change that.

any nerf would have to be handled delicately so it wouldn't go back to collecting dust. on that note i think most players agree stickies could stand to be nerfed, but the difference is they've been around forever and earned "staple" status in 6s. in comparison to that i don't really think QF got a fair trial.

there are a lot of great QF counters that are banned (stuff that enables burst damage) and that's part of the problem too. can't cut out certain parts and expect the machine to run smoothly

shit, i remember a video where a sniper quickscoped a medic three times while he was megahealed and didn't drop him, instead of just charging a shot for a second more. it was so dumb but enough people bought it i guess

to me 50/50 quickfix/kritz is more exciting than 70/30 uber/kritz.

So basically you're saying you want us to unban more stupid weapons so we can counter a stupid weapon that should just be banned anyways? Like that's the entire problem with most of the unlocks in general. Dumb weapons just require other dumb weapons so they can be "countered." That's not really what I (and most likely most of the community) want 6s to turn into, and it's exactly what the quick fix was already starting to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OalWDhYfdeg