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Loot boxes definitively linked gambling addiction
posted in World Events
1
#1
0 Frags +

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56614281

interesting facts:

  • a link between loot boxes and actual problematic gambling is basically 100% confirmed
  • Valve is one of the first companies to impliment loot boxes
  • 40% of kids open loot boxes

I know that dota, csgo and tf2 are all M rated games but it still doesn't feel very good knowing valve showed the entire industry how to make a gambling addiction a profitable business model. Especially when they know kids are going to be gambling.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56614281

interesting facts:
[list]
[*] a link between loot boxes and actual problematic gambling is basically 100% confirmed
[*] Valve is one of the first companies to impliment loot boxes
[*] 40% of kids open loot boxes
[/list]

I know that dota, csgo and tf2 are all M rated games but it still doesn't feel very good knowing valve showed the entire industry how to make a gambling addiction a profitable business model. Especially when they know kids are going to be gambling.
2
#2
30 Frags +

what's gambling?

https://i.imgur.com/HsIZ2s4.png

https://www.teamfortress.tv/30093

what's gambling?
[img]https://i.imgur.com/HsIZ2s4.png[/img]
https://www.teamfortress.tv/30093
3
#3
4 Frags +

this just in: water is wet

this just in: water is wet
4
#4
2 Frags +

I don't think Valve will change much as long as they can make (loads of) money from it. Right now it looks like the only thing that can stop Valve from supporting loot boxes are the governments of each country. Three years ago Valve had to shut down the loot boxes in the Netherlands and Belgium because there's a Betting and Gaming Act against it. We can still find loot boxes but we can't open or trade them:

Show Content

Psyonix/Epic also removed the loot boxes in Rocket League like 1.5 years ago, replacing them with blueprints so you can always see what you are getting.

I don't think Valve will change much as long as they can make (loads of) money from it. Right now it looks like the only thing that can stop Valve from supporting loot boxes are the governments of each country. Three years ago Valve had to shut down the loot boxes in the Netherlands and Belgium because there's a Betting and Gaming Act against it. We can still find loot boxes but we can't open or trade them:
[spoiler][img]https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1637579663199271086/44005CD15CD2C49B7BC7C0CC0A467AFD8B67A66F/[/img][/spoiler]

Psyonix/Epic also removed the loot boxes in Rocket League like [url=https://www.polygon.com/2019/8/6/20757348/rocket-league-crates-leaving]1.5 years ago[/url], replacing them with blueprints so you can always see what you are getting.
5
#5
-8 Frags +

Now it's up to the federal government and it's rag tag group of crazy gals n guys to put an end to this debauchery once and for all by systematically reeducating these fucking retarded kids into civilized, non-sinning, dogooders.

NAh but fr tho if you are an adult with a child who has acess to these games you might need to set aside an afternoon and explain to them, camly, and without malice. That if you use my goddamn credit card again to buy vbucks i will not let you live here. If your child has any addiction whatsoever at the age of 8-16 or whatever the fuck the unamed sample size and demographics were used in this hot science, and you just can't seem to throw them into the wall hard enough for them to understand, it might be time for some punitive measures.

also We all p[layed tf2 in the fucking golden age of scamming trading opening hats n weapobns n shit, if you were into it you know it was huge and you probably got scammed or wasted some money on crates and that taught you not to fuck with numbers when they were big and you were small. at least i did i opened like 30 crates and realized quick shit was fake and gay. n my mommy got mad

Now it's up to the federal government and it's rag tag group of crazy gals n guys to put an end to this debauchery once and for all by systematically reeducating these fucking retarded kids into civilized, non-sinning, dogooders.

NAh but fr tho if you are an adult with a child who has acess to these games you might need to set aside an afternoon and explain to them, camly, and without malice. That if you use my goddamn credit card again to buy vbucks i will not let you live here. If your child has any addiction whatsoever at the age of 8-16 or whatever the fuck the unamed sample size and demographics were used in this hot science, and you just can't seem to throw them into the wall hard enough for them to understand, it might be time for some punitive measures.

also We all p[layed tf2 in the fucking golden age of scamming trading opening hats n weapobns n shit, if you were into it you know it was huge and you probably got scammed or wasted some money on crates and that taught you not to fuck with numbers when they were big and you were small. at least i did i opened like 30 crates and realized quick shit was fake and gay. n my mommy got mad
6
#6
-9 Frags +
Rebitehttps://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56614281

interesting facts:
  • shid
  • fard
  • numbers are big and smal and all around u learn how to count them for an added bonus point
[quote=Rebite]https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56614281

interesting facts:
[list]
[*] shid
[*] fard
[*] numbers are big and smal and all around u learn how to count them for an added bonus point
[/list]
[/quote]
7
#7
-9 Frags +
Rebitehttps://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56614281

I know that dota, csgo and tf2 are all M rated games but it still doesn't feel very good knowing valve showed the entire industry how to make a gambling addiction a profitable business model. Especially when they know kids are going to be gambling.

lol i din't even read this part: scinece confrims valve invented the slot machine in 2007, the recently unthoughtof breakthrough swept across the gaming world and casinos were instantly erased from this timeline, along with lottery tickets, betting, and the ability for parents to like give a shit.

[quote=Rebite]https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56614281

I know that dota, csgo and tf2 are all M rated games but it still doesn't feel very good knowing valve showed the entire industry how to make a gambling addiction a profitable business model. Especially when they know kids are going to be gambling.[/quote]


lol i din't even read this part: scinece confrims valve invented the slot machine in 2007, the recently unthoughtof breakthrough swept across the gaming world and casinos were instantly erased from this timeline, along with lottery tickets, betting, and the ability for parents to like give a shit.
8
#8
-2 Frags +

Took them this long to publicise results

Took them this long to publicise results
9
#9
-5 Frags +
Air_this just in: water is wet

water isn't wet itself, you get wet if you have water on you.

but yes, they are designed to entice you to get more than you need.

[quote=Air_]this just in: water is wet[/quote]

water isn't wet itself, you get wet if you have water on you.

but yes, they are designed to entice you to get more than you need.
10
#10
6 Frags +

The BBC catches up on what everyone has known for 10 years

It will probably take another 10 years for the mainstream to realise that what's truly addictive about many of these games is the tightly-controlled matchmaking system, it's the reason people get so invested in these games that they're willing to spend the money in the first place, the entire matchmaking system in most of these games is a carefully crafted loop of addictive incentives, every single aspect of it is designed to keep you playing and make you care about a dumbass Elo-flavoured carrot on a stick.

I don't think there'll ever be serious attention given to this though, it's easy to see there's a problem when an addiction involves money directly (not to mention more attractive to governments looking to extract fines from offenders), but it's not so easy for an outsider to see all the moving parts in a system that makes it so addictive that people will continue playing a game they basically hate just because of meta-incentives like ranks, levels and skins.

This is a barmy idea and would never happen but if you banned game companies from offering meta-progression elements (item unlocks, skins, ranking up) as a reward for playing only on first party servers I actually believe that much of this addiction stranglehold would evaporate. There's something extremely sinister about the same group controlling the fundamental characteristics of the game, the manner in which it is played, when rewards are distributed, and the rate at which the more desirable rewards will be given.

https://i.imgur.com/b8RkW2K.png

The BBC catches up on what everyone has known for 10 years

It will probably take another 10 years for the mainstream to realise that what's truly addictive about many of these games is the tightly-controlled matchmaking system, it's the reason people get so invested in these games that they're willing to spend the money in the first place, the entire matchmaking system in most of these games is a carefully crafted loop of addictive incentives, every single aspect of it is designed to keep you playing and make you care about a dumbass Elo-flavoured carrot on a stick.

I don't think there'll ever be serious attention given to this though, it's easy to see there's a problem when an addiction involves money directly (not to mention more attractive to governments looking to extract fines from offenders), but it's not so easy for an outsider to see all the moving parts in a system that makes it so addictive that people will continue playing a game they basically hate just because of meta-incentives like ranks, levels and skins.

This is a barmy idea and would never happen but if you banned game companies from offering meta-progression elements (item unlocks, skins, ranking up) as a reward for playing only on first party servers I actually believe that much of this addiction stranglehold would evaporate. There's something extremely sinister about the same group controlling the fundamental characteristics of the game, the manner in which it is played, when rewards are distributed, and the rate at which the more desirable rewards will be given.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/b8RkW2K.png[/img]
11
#11
EssentialsTF
6 Frags +

So I've decided to give the report the article is based upon a quick read through. I have a couple of points that I think are important to note.

  1. This report/research was conducted with support from BeGambleAware, an independant charity advised by the Gambling Commission set up by the UK Government. That is not that unusual with reports such as these, and charities like BGA tend to be non-invasive when supporting research, but its always good to bear such information in mind when conclusions are drawn.
  2. The '40% of children have opened a lootbox' statistic is taken from a 2020 study where its explained that its a little more complicated, especially when you frame it in the context of problem gambling. From the study itself: while establishing a statistically significant link between loot box engagement and problem gambling, our data do not allow conclusions as to whether loot box engagement promotes problematic gambling or if problematic gambling leads to gambling-like loot box behavior in gaming.. (It's behind a paywall you'll just have to trust me on this one).
  3. Most of the studies used in the review of the data are not longitudinal (aka examining over a longer period of time) and utilises surveys which have their own host of issues, especially if they are your only source of data collection.
  4. Their own individual data collection started during the COVID-19 pandemic and their sample for their survey was collected on the 19/11/2020, at a significant peak of the UK pandemic. This presents a potential skew in data that can only be verified by a reproduced study (someone else doing the exact same study to see if they get the same results).

This isn't to say that this is based on inaccurate conclusions or shoddy research. There is a link between problem gambling and video games, any player who plays games with loot boxes in them will tell you there is an issue. Valve especially has a problem in regards to reselling items and artificially forcing them into a seperate digital currency, resulting in scandals like CSGOLotto and what have you. There definitely needs to be some form of child protection from such things, and you can make the argument that developers (or more accurately publishers) can't be trusted to deal with microtransactions themselves. But at the same time, parents should be monitoring their children, especially when it comes to games that feature microtransactions.

TL;DR - Study makes good points about lootboxes being bad (who knew?), but the article have missed some key points in their reporting, as always.

So I've decided to give the [url=https://www.begambleaware.org/sites/default/files/2021-03/Gaming_and_Gambling_Report_Final.pdf]report[/url] the article is based upon a quick read through. I have a couple of points that I think are important to note.
[olist]
[*] This report/research was conducted with support from [url=https://www.begambleaware.org/about-us]BeGambleAware[/url], an independant charity advised by the [url=https://beta.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/about-us/who-we-are]Gambling Commission set up by the UK Government[/url]. That is not that unusual with reports such as these, and charities like BGA tend to be non-invasive when supporting research, but its always good to bear such information in mind when conclusions are drawn.
[*] The '40% of children have opened a lootbox' statistic is taken from a 2020 study where its explained that its a little more complicated, especially when you frame it in the context of problem gambling. From the study itself: [i]while establishing a statistically significant link between loot box engagement and problem gambling, our data do not allow conclusions as to whether loot box engagement promotes problematic gambling or if problematic gambling leads to gambling-like loot box behavior in gaming.[/i]. (It's behind a paywall you'll just have to trust me on this one).
[*] Most of the studies used in the review of the data are not longitudinal (aka examining over a longer period of time) and utilises surveys which have their own host of issues, especially if they are your only source of data collection.
[*] Their own individual data collection started during the COVID-19 pandemic and their sample for their survey was collected on the 19/11/2020, at a significant peak of the UK pandemic. This presents a potential skew in data that can only be verified by a reproduced study (someone else doing the exact same study to see if they get the same results).
[/olist]

This isn't to say that this is based on inaccurate conclusions or shoddy research. There is a link between problem gambling and video games, any player who plays games with loot boxes in them will tell you there is an issue. Valve especially has a problem in regards to reselling items and artificially forcing them into a seperate digital currency, resulting in scandals like CSGOLotto and what have you. There definitely needs to be some form of child protection from such things, and you can make the argument that developers (or more accurately publishers) can't be trusted to deal with microtransactions themselves. But at the same time, parents should be monitoring their children, especially when it comes to games that feature microtransactions.

[b]TL;DR - Study makes good points about lootboxes being bad (who knew?), but the article have missed some key points in their reporting, as always.[/b]
12
#12
-5 Frags +

the real gamble is when you have diarrhea but you need to fart. Is it a simple fart or are you going to shit your pants? Who knows, only one way to find out

the real gamble is when you have diarrhea but you need to fart. Is it a simple fart or are you going to shit your pants? Who knows, only one way to find out
13
#13
3 Frags +
AdnurakThe BBC catches up on what everyone has known for 10 years

It will probably take another 10 years for the mainstream to realise that what's truly addictive about many of these games is the tightly-controlled matchmaking system, it's the reason people get so invested in these games that they're willing to spend the money in the first place, the entire matchmaking system in most of these games is a carefully crafted loop of addictive incentives, every single aspect of it is designed to keep you playing and make you care about a dumbass Elo-flavoured carrot on a stick.

I don't think there'll ever be serious attention given to this though, it's easy to see there's a problem when an addiction involves money directly (not to mention more attractive to governments looking to extract fines from offenders), but it's not so easy for an outsider to see all the moving parts in a system that makes it so addictive that people will continue playing a game they basically hate just because of meta-incentives like ranks, levels and skins.

This is a barmy idea and would never happen but if you banned game companies from offering meta-progression elements (item unlocks, skins, ranking up) as a reward for playing only on first party servers I actually believe that much of this addiction stranglehold would evaporate. There's something extremely sinister about the same group controlling the fundamental characteristics of the game, the manner in which it is played, when rewards are distributed, and the rate at which the more desirable rewards will be given.

https://i.imgur.com/b8RkW2K.png

on the subject of matchmaking being carefully crafted to addict, this article about EOMM (Engagement Optimized Matchmaking) in COD is a super interesting read

[quote=Adnurak]The BBC catches up on what everyone has known for 10 years

It will probably take another 10 years for the mainstream to realise that what's truly addictive about many of these games is the tightly-controlled matchmaking system, it's the reason people get so invested in these games that they're willing to spend the money in the first place, the entire matchmaking system in most of these games is a carefully crafted loop of addictive incentives, every single aspect of it is designed to keep you playing and make you care about a dumbass Elo-flavoured carrot on a stick.

I don't think there'll ever be serious attention given to this though, it's easy to see there's a problem when an addiction involves money directly (not to mention more attractive to governments looking to extract fines from offenders), but it's not so easy for an outsider to see all the moving parts in a system that makes it so addictive that people will continue playing a game they basically hate just because of meta-incentives like ranks, levels and skins.

This is a barmy idea and would never happen but if you banned game companies from offering meta-progression elements (item unlocks, skins, ranking up) as a reward for playing only on first party servers I actually believe that much of this addiction stranglehold would evaporate. There's something extremely sinister about the same group controlling the fundamental characteristics of the game, the manner in which it is played, when rewards are distributed, and the rate at which the more desirable rewards will be given.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/b8RkW2K.png[/img][/quote]
on the subject of matchmaking being carefully crafted to addict, [url=http://web.cs.ucla.edu/~yzsun/papers/WWW17Chen_EOMM]this article[/url] about EOMM (Engagement Optimized Matchmaking) in COD is a super interesting read
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