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ETF2L S33 maps // Global Map Pool
1
#1
0 Frags +

Dear gamers,

ETF2L Season 33 is going to start in a few weeks and I personally haven't heard about the maps that are going to be played.

I have the feeling that for a few seasons, there is 1 map that gets added and then removed because it is not particularly liked (S30 cardinal, S31 prolands). S32 featured logjam but I have the feeling that this map wasn't liked either. (No disrespect to the creators of the said maps tho).
What map would you like to see in the next season ?
Maybe it is time to agree on a map that will be played for several seasons in a row ?

It could also be a good idea to synchronize with whoever are the creators of the new NA league (replacing ESEA) to have the same map pool across the 2 regions (and maybe even with OZFortress/AsiaFortress as well).

I personally liked metalworks and it seems like it's been played for a lots of seasons in ESEA so I would guess NA players liked it... But maybe I am wrong.

Dear gamers,

ETF2L Season 33 is going to start in a few weeks and I personally haven't heard about the maps that are going to be played.

I have the feeling that for a few seasons, there is 1 map that gets added and then removed because it is not particularly liked (S30 cardinal, S31 prolands). S32 featured logjam but I have the feeling that this map wasn't liked either. (No disrespect to the creators of the said maps tho).
What map would you like to see in the next season ?
Maybe it is time to agree on a map that will be played for several seasons in a row ?

It could also be a good idea to synchronize with whoever are the creators of the new NA league (replacing ESEA) to have the same map pool across the 2 regions (and maybe even with OZFortress/AsiaFortress as well).

I personally liked metalworks and it seems like it's been played for a lots of seasons in ESEA so I would guess NA players liked it... But maybe I am wrong.
2
#2
3 Frags +

I've not heard much about how Logjam faired this season in either ETF2L or Ozfortress. I've got a minor list of things to go through on it but if anyone's got any more insight I would appreciate it!

I've not heard much about how Logjam faired this season in either ETF2L or Ozfortress. I've got a minor list of things to go through on it but if anyone's got any more insight I would appreciate it!
3
#3
5 Frags +

I preferred logjam over prolands and maybe even granary. It would be fair to give maps like metalworks another chance, although I would prefer to see reckoner for example.

As Hyce said, maybe it would be good to point out what's wrong with the maps that weren't liked. You can keep adding different maps, but if the mapmakers don't get feedback you have to rotate maps every season because these maps won't improve.

I preferred logjam over prolands and maybe even granary. It would be fair to give maps like metalworks another chance, although I would prefer to see reckoner for example.

As Hyce said, maybe it would be good to point out what's wrong with the maps that weren't liked. You can keep adding different maps, but if the mapmakers don't get feedback you have to rotate maps every season because these maps won't improve.
4
#4
9 Frags +

Logjam was really well received in ozfortress. Having hyce actively listening and working with our feedback was fantastic. Seems generally well liked and was picked heaps in playoffs.

The most recent season of ozfortress used a new map pool system where Gullywash, Snakewater, Product, Process and Logjam were played twice, and Sunshine, Metalworks, Granary, Prolands were played once. This added variety to the map pool while also keeping the staples in. I like the flexibility of this system too, maps that are played once can be swapped to be played twice as seen fit, and you have a bit more space to replace maps as the community sees fit (Propaganda, Reckoner, Bagel etc).

Logjam was really well received in ozfortress. Having hyce actively listening and working with our feedback was fantastic. Seems generally well liked and was picked heaps in playoffs.

The most recent season of ozfortress used a new map pool system where Gullywash, Snakewater, Product, Process and Logjam were played twice, and Sunshine, Metalworks, Granary, Prolands were played once. This added variety to the map pool while also keeping the staples in. I like the flexibility of this system too, maps that are played once can be swapped to be played twice as seen fit, and you have a bit more space to replace maps as the community sees fit (Propaganda, Reckoner, Bagel etc).
5
#5
3 Frags +

as much as i like reckoner, it is crucial to note that the creator has quit the game so further development is up in the air. would much rather see a map with a more active map maker.

as much as i like reckoner, it is crucial to note that the creator has quit the game so further development is up in the air. would much rather see a map with a more active map maker.
6
#6
-10 Frags +

bring back badlands for logjam how can we play a map for so long and get rid of it? its like thhe main staple map and i get the issues with last but its just a map i would much rather play that than these new cringe maps

or better yet trade badlands for granary and keep logjam because hyce seems like he wants to improve his map and we dont have that with the others

bring back badlands for logjam how can we play a map for so long and get rid of it? its like thhe main staple map and i get the issues with last but its just a map i would much rather play that than these new cringe maps

or better yet trade badlands for granary and keep logjam because hyce seems like he wants to improve his map and we dont have that with the others
7
#7
1 Frags +
HyceI've not heard much about how Logjam faired this season in either ETF2L or Ozfortress. I've got a minor list of things to go through on it but if anyone's got any more insight I would appreciate it!

Unfortunately, I didn't get to play a lot of the map so when I say " I have the feeling that this map wasn't liked either", it's mostly by speaking with people rather than actually playing it.
If it turns out I was wrong (and it seems that for the moment, this is the case) then logjam could actually be this very map that stays in the map pool (and you seem to be a quite active/open to criticism map maker so that is cool)

Also, one of the reason I am asking about the maps is that teams are playing scrims regularly now and I think it would be quite helpful to know which "newer" map we will need to practice (So this is more a questions for ETF2l admins I guess).

arnoId. Seems generally well liked and was picked heaps in playoffs.

In ETF2L playoffs, the map was never picked in prem and picked twice in D1 if I'm correct and it is quite interesting to see such a difference.

[quote=Hyce]I've not heard much about how Logjam faired this season in either ETF2L or Ozfortress. I've got a minor list of things to go through on it but if anyone's got any more insight I would appreciate it![/quote]
Unfortunately, I didn't get to play a lot of the map so when I say " I have the feeling that this map wasn't liked either", it's mostly by speaking with people rather than actually playing it.
If it turns out I was wrong (and it seems that for the moment, this is the case) then logjam could actually be this very map that stays in the map pool (and you seem to be a quite active/open to criticism map maker so that is cool)

Also, one of the reason I am asking about the maps is that teams are playing scrims regularly now and I think it would be quite helpful to know which "newer" map we will need to practice (So this is more a questions for ETF2l admins I guess).

[quote=arnoId]. Seems generally well liked and was picked heaps in playoffs.
[/quote]
In ETF2L playoffs, the map was never picked in prem and picked twice in D1 if I'm correct and it is quite interesting to see such a difference.
8
#8
3 Frags +

I think logjam mid really sucks as soldier, its high bomb straight away or nothing - there is no favourable positioning.
also both the "flanks" between mid and second are too long and straight to really be flanks, they feel so useless

I think logjam mid really sucks as soldier, its high bomb straight away or nothing - there is no favourable positioning.
also both the "flanks" between mid and second are too long and straight to really be flanks, they feel so useless
9
#9
-4 Frags +

Nobody will ever agree on new maps. Nobody agreed on gunboats when it was added. Consensus is unreacheable. My answer to this yearly argument is to simply add more maps.

Besides, etf2l map pool + pick and ban is ridiculous. How many viaduct games did we see on stream at cph?

With that said, new maps are always welcome because they add variety, and are a way to balance the game. For example, scout is currently very strong, so maps good for soldier with flat grounds could be a way to counter scout's strengh. It's the way maps are used in Starcraft series.

I wish we had a smarter system than the currently 7-map pool used in europe. For LAN, we could have 10 or 12 maps or whatever and use them with the current pick and ban system.

For regular seasons, I see two solutions :

  • Given there are 3 seasons a year, we could have different map pools used, with for example 4 core maps staying in, and 2 or 3 non-core maps being swapped each season; Playoffs would be done with pick/ban with the full map pool
  • Run the season with a full map pool with each team picking their map but enforce teams to choose the same map at most two times. Discuss further to figure out if having the two halves of the given fixture be played on the same map when both teams pick it is a problem or not. I like this way the most because anyone can pick the map they want to play, but it has the huge drawback that it requires additional coding on the website.

Edit : pick/ban for cups and tiebreakers only requires the map pool to be an odd number, and it's possible to replace Case1.6 and 7 by 'Team x bans <whatever number once multiplied by 2 leaves one map in the pool>

Nobody will ever agree on new maps. Nobody agreed on gunboats when it was added. Consensus is unreacheable. My answer to this yearly argument is to simply add more maps.

Besides, etf2l map pool + pick and ban is ridiculous. How many viaduct games did we see on stream at cph?

With that said, new maps are always welcome because they add variety, and are a way to balance the game. For example, scout is currently very strong, so maps good for soldier with flat grounds could be a way to counter scout's strengh. It's the way maps are used in Starcraft series.

I wish we had a smarter system than the currently 7-map pool used in europe. For LAN, we could have 10 or 12 maps or whatever and use them with the current pick and ban system.

For regular seasons, I see two solutions :
[list]
[*] Given there are 3 seasons a year, we could have different map pools used, with for example 4 core maps staying in, and 2 or 3 non-core maps being swapped each season; Playoffs would be done with pick/ban with the full map pool
[*] Run the season with a full map pool with each team picking their map but enforce teams to choose the same map at most two times. Discuss further to figure out if having the two halves of the given fixture be played on the same map when both teams pick it is a problem or not. I like this way the most because anyone can pick the map they want to play, but it has the huge drawback that it requires additional coding on the website.
[/list]

Edit : pick/ban for cups and tiebreakers only requires the map pool to be an odd number, and it's possible to replace [url=http://etf2l.org/rules/general-rules/#10]Case1.6 and 7[/url] by 'Team x bans <whatever number once multiplied by 2 leaves one map in the pool>
10
#10
-2 Frags +

metalworks=>logjam>granary>reckoner>badlands

my personal opinions, if it came down to it I'd probably prefer metalworks just because I have a lot more experience on the map but I think from a design standpoint logjam and metalworks are both of higher quality than the other potential maps

metalworks=>logjam>granary>reckoner>badlands

my personal opinions, if it came down to it I'd probably prefer metalworks just because I have a lot more experience on the map but I think from a design standpoint logjam and metalworks are both of higher quality than the other potential maps
11
#11
3 Frags +

I really want to see Propaganda in this season, I also enjoyed Logjam last season but I'm very biased towards it.

I really want to see Propaganda in this season, I also enjoyed Logjam last season but I'm very biased towards it.
12
#12
0 Frags +

logjam goes hard
metal>gran

logjam goes hard
metal>gran
13
#13
1 Frags +

gullywash/snakewater/process/product/granary/metalworks/sunshine
personally

gullywash/snakewater/process/product/granary/metalworks/sunshine
personally
14
#14
4 Frags +

second koth map please

thank you very much

second koth map please

thank you very much
15
#15
-3 Frags +

remove viaduct

remove viaduct
16
#16
5 Frags +

Old reckoner (before the update that made everyone hate it) was actually really good imo.

Given the obvious diversity of views on this subject I think it's important that this season ETF2L has a preliminary vote with a lot of options on the table before having a map cup, where frontrunners from the first poll are pitted against eachother - it was good having one last season but I think the selection of maps to test seemed rather random i.e. why didn't we test propaganda which seemed from the NA playtest cup like a solid new map? The maps played in the cup could then be voted on afterwards as a final poll for what gets put into the season.

Old reckoner (before the update that made everyone hate it) was actually really good imo.

Given the obvious diversity of views on this subject I think it's important that this season ETF2L has a preliminary vote with a lot of options on the table [i]before[/i] having a map cup, where frontrunners from the first poll are pitted against eachother - it was good having one last season but I think the selection of maps to test seemed rather random i.e. why didn't we test propaganda which seemed from the NA playtest cup like a solid new map? The maps played in the cup could then be voted on afterwards as a final poll for what gets put into the season.
17
#17
-2 Frags +

cp_freight_b3

cp_freight_b3
18
#18
13 Frags +

if badlands last was completely remade with no context to the old one it'd be one of the best maps for sure

if badlands last was completely remade with no context to the old one it'd be one of the best maps for sure
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