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Rewind II invites and closed qualifier announced
posted in News
31
#31
9 Frags +

http://challonge.com/6xc0z4sh

bracket my dudes

http://challonge.com/6xc0z4sh

bracket my dudes
32
#32
17 Frags +

who the fuck made this bracket?

who the fuck made this bracket?
33
#33
37 Frags +

Are those seeds final? Seems a bit inappropriate to have SVIFT, Ascent and Velocity all on the same side of the bracket.

Are those seeds final? Seems a bit inappropriate to have SVIFT, Ascent and Velocity all on the same side of the bracket.
34
#34
-20 Frags +

All teams are considered equal at the start of the tournament, so it's only fair that the bracket was randomly generated. Since the format of the tournament is double elimination, no grand finals, it really doesn't matter what the seeding is, all teams will play the same number of "hard" match ups they would with any other seeding, those matches just might happen at different parts of the tournament.

All teams are considered equal at the start of the tournament, so it's only fair that the bracket was randomly generated. Since the format of the tournament is double elimination, no grand finals, it really doesn't matter what the seeding is, all teams will play the same number of "hard" match ups they would with any other seeding, those matches just might happen at different parts of the tournament.
35
#35
25 Frags +

wtf

wtf
36
#36
9 Frags +

sema2005 does not approve of this bracket.

- sema2005

sema2005 does not approve of this bracket.





- sema2005
37
#37
20 Frags +

OMEGALUL

OMEGALUL
38
#38
30 Frags +

youre still supposed to seed double elim tournaments -_-

youre still supposed to seed double elim tournaments -_-
39
#39
15 Frags +

that's definitely not how that works man

that's definitely not how that works man
40
#40
-12 Frags +

Keep in mind in this tournament there's 0 difference between 8th and 3rd. The job of this bracket is to sort out the top 2, and it does that in the most fair way possible. The biggest weakness of this bracket is that the semi-finals and lower bracket finals (again, there are no grand finals) might not be the most hyped games, but those hype games (ascent vs velocity, velocity vs svift) will still happen, and they'll still get streamed.

I understand it doesn't look good at a glance, and for a regular tournament it would be garbage, but I think the format actually makes a lot of sense for this specific tournament.

Keep in mind in this tournament there's 0 difference between 8th and 3rd. The job of this bracket is to sort out the top 2, and it does that in the most fair way possible. The biggest weakness of this bracket is that the semi-finals and lower bracket finals (again, there are no grand finals) might not be the most hyped games, but those hype games (ascent vs velocity, velocity vs svift) will still happen, and they'll still get streamed.

I understand it doesn't look good at a glance, and for a regular tournament it would be garbage, but I think the format actually makes a lot of sense for this specific tournament.
41
#41
15 Frags +

random brackets are fair and balanced

random brackets are fair and balanced
42
#42
27 Frags +

seed the bracket please thank you

seed the bracket please thank you
43
#43
23 Frags +

what dude

what dude
44
#44
14 Frags +

I don't think considering all teams equal at the start of a tournament is a very good idea...

I don't think considering all teams equal at the start of a tournament is a very good idea...
45
#45
15 Frags +
Cornpop16I understand it doesn't look good at a glance, and for a regular tournament it would be garbage, but I think the format actually makes a lot of sense for this specific tournament.

Explain why please

[quote=Cornpop16]I understand it doesn't look good at a glance, and for a regular tournament it would be garbage, but I think the format actually makes a lot of sense for this specific tournament.[/quote]

Explain why please
46
#46
11 Frags +

why dont we just have hbox and armada play in pools

why dont we just have hbox and armada play in pools
47
#47
1 Frags +

If someone wants to have a discussion why we should go with a seeded tournament instead this can change, but let me continue to explain why I belive random seeding is better in this situation.

Firstly, any seeding of this tournament would have to be arbitrary. Because some of these teams have never played before, some are brand new, and most we haven't really seen play against one another. Sure we probably could seed these teams and do a pretty good job, but ultimatly the seeding would be based on nothing but "the admins think this player is better than that player" which unfortunatly couldn't be objective.

Now in it's self, subjective seeding isn't really THAT bad of a deal. But the thing is that subjective seeding offers pretty much no advantages over random seeding. Yes it's true that a team could unfairly get 3rd when they deserved 4th or 5th, but as stated before, that means nothing in this tournament. The top 2 get invited, and the bottom 6 have to play through the open bracket.

If someone wants to have a discussion why we should go with a seeded tournament instead this can change, but let me continue to explain why I belive random seeding is better in this situation.

Firstly, any seeding of this tournament would have to be arbitrary. Because some of these teams have never played before, some are brand new, and most we haven't really seen play against one another. Sure we probably could seed these teams and do a pretty good job, but ultimatly the seeding would be based on nothing but "the admins think this player is better than that player" which unfortunatly couldn't be objective.

Now in it's self, subjective seeding isn't really THAT bad of a deal. But the thing is that subjective seeding offers pretty much no advantages over random seeding. Yes it's true that a team could unfairly get 3rd when they deserved 4th or 5th, but as stated before, that means nothing in this tournament. The top 2 get invited, and the bottom 6 have to play through the open bracket.
48
#48
16 Frags +

Couldn't you just seed them into pools if it's hard to differentiate between every team? Seems like the most reasonable solution that prevents skewed brackets whilst not having to play guessing games about ambiguous players/rosters.

Couldn't you just seed them into pools if it's hard to differentiate between every team? Seems like the most reasonable solution that prevents skewed brackets whilst not having to play guessing games about ambiguous players/rosters.
49
#49
2 Frags +
Cornpop16Firstly, any seeding of this tournament would have to be arbitrary. Because some of these teams have never played before, some are brand new, and most we haven't really seen play against one another. Sure we probably could seed these teams and do a pretty good job, but ultimatly the seeding would be based on nothing but "the admins think this player is better than that player" which unfortunatly couldn't be objective.

Seeding is never perfect and it doesn't have to be. The idea of seeding is that in a case like this where there's 3 teams that are the noteworthy favorite, 2 of the 3 aren't bumped to lower bracket guaranteed by the end of round 2.While the results may ultimately be the same, you dont end up with an unbalanced bracket. It does not matter which order in the top 3 you put ascent velocity and svift, nor does it matter what order in the bottom 3 which order you put, sure there might be arguments, but the important part is that you dont pit two of the best teams against each other in the first match. Ideally they meet much much later.

[quote=Cornpop16]Firstly, any seeding of this tournament would have to be arbitrary. Because some of these teams have never played before, some are brand new, and most we haven't really seen play against one another. Sure we probably could seed these teams and do a pretty good job, but ultimatly the seeding would be based on nothing but "the admins think this player is better than that player" which unfortunatly couldn't be objective.[/quote]

Seeding is never perfect and it doesn't have to be. The idea of seeding is that in a case like this where there's 3 teams that are the noteworthy favorite, 2 of the 3 aren't bumped to lower bracket guaranteed by the end of round 2.While the results may ultimately be the same, you dont end up with an unbalanced bracket. It does not matter which order in the top 3 you put ascent velocity and svift, nor does it matter what order in the bottom 3 which order you put, sure there might be arguments, but the important part is that you dont pit two of the best teams against each other in the first match. Ideally they meet much much later.
50
#50
-1 Frags +
kaidusCouldn't you just seed them into pools if it's hard to differentiate between every team? Seems like the most reasonable solution that prevents skewed brackets whilst not having to play guessing games about ambiguous players/rosters.

Do you mean something like put the top 4 into one pool, bottom 4 into another pool and then just have every round 1 match be a "Pool A" team vs "Pool B" team? This idea is better than just hand picking, but which team gets into which bracket is still subjective.

Again though, subjectiveness isn't inherently bad, I'm just not sure what the upsides of a format like that would actually be. Like I guess you gain a more exciting semifinals/LBF, but for that you're conceding that there probably won't be a close first round game, and the exciting matchup that would otherwise happen in semifinals/LBF will still happen at a different point in a randomly seeded tournament.

Maybe that trade is worth it though.

[quote=kaidus]Couldn't you just seed them into pools if it's hard to differentiate between every team? Seems like the most reasonable solution that prevents skewed brackets whilst not having to play guessing games about ambiguous players/rosters.[/quote]

Do you mean something like put the top 4 into one pool, bottom 4 into another pool and then just have every round 1 match be a "Pool A" team vs "Pool B" team? This idea is better than just hand picking, but which team gets into which bracket is still subjective.

Again though, subjectiveness isn't inherently bad, I'm just not sure what the upsides of a format like that would actually be. Like I guess you gain a more exciting semifinals/LBF, but for that you're conceding that there probably won't be a close first round game, and the exciting matchup that would otherwise happen in semifinals/LBF will still happen at a different point in a randomly seeded tournament.

Maybe that trade is worth it though.
51
#51
-3 Frags +
Dreamboatthe important part is that you dont pit two of the best teams against each other in the first match. Ideally they meet much much later.

Again, the response would be why is this important? I guess from an entertainment perspective, people would like the most exciting moment to be saved as the best for last, and that's a good point.

I wanna read and respond to as many opinions as I can for the rest of the night, and then in the morning we may decide to reseed the tournament.

[quote=Dreamboat]the important part is that you dont pit two of the best teams against each other in the first match. Ideally they meet much much later.[/quote]
Again, the response would be why is this important? I guess from an entertainment perspective, people would like the most exciting moment to be saved as the best for last, and that's a good point.

I wanna read and respond to as many opinions as I can for the rest of the night, and then in the morning we may decide to reseed the tournament.
52
#52
18 Frags +

Every single participant and spectator thinks its silly to not have this seeded. The only people who think this is a good idea are the tournament managers (apparently). Take from that what you will.

Every single participant and spectator thinks its silly to not have this seeded. The only people who think this is a good idea are the tournament managers (apparently). Take from that what you will.
53
#53
1 Frags +

No matter how the tournament is seeded, it really doesn't make a huge difference on the tournament.

If hypothetically my team, SVIFT, and Ascent are all interchangeable for the top two teams, we should be able to beat all the other teams without an issue. In a double elim bracket, you can only lose once. So the 3rd best team will lose to the two teams that are better than them, and the other two will be the two invited teams.

Honestly the way the bracket was before allowed for interesting matches on both nights for the casts, but now that it's changed the first round is just 4 invite experienced teams playing 4 not-invite experienced teams. Hopefully that means we'll all be done with our matches quick but still I don't know why everyone is losing their shit

Edit:
Actually just kidding that's how it was when we were all on the same side of the bracket. Now if svift beats whatever team they meet in UBF, they get the invite. So now by trying to appease people saying the bracket was unbalanced, we have an unbalanced bracket.

No matter how the tournament is seeded, it really doesn't make a huge difference on the tournament.

If hypothetically my team, SVIFT, and Ascent are all interchangeable for the top two teams, we should be able to beat all the other teams without an issue. In a double elim bracket, you can only lose once. So the 3rd best team will lose to the two teams that are better than them, and the other two will be the two invited teams.

Honestly the way the bracket was before allowed for interesting matches on both nights for the casts, but now that it's changed the first round is just 4 invite experienced teams playing 4 not-invite experienced teams. Hopefully that means we'll all be done with our matches quick but still I don't know why everyone is losing their shit

Edit:
Actually just kidding that's how it was when we were all on the same side of the bracket. Now if svift beats whatever team they meet in UBF, they get the invite. So now by trying to appease people saying the bracket was unbalanced, we have an unbalanced bracket.
54
#54
-1 Frags +

This guy knows

This guy knows
55
#55
12 Frags +
PeteActually just kidding that's how it was when we were all on the same side of the bracket. Now if svift beats whatever team they meet in UBF, they get the invite. So now by trying to appease people saying the bracket was unbalanced, we have an unbalanced bracket.

this kind of situation will happen in literally every possible bracket when there are 3 main competitors, its not fixable

[quote=Pete]Actually just kidding that's how it was when we were all on the same side of the bracket. Now if svift beats whatever team they meet in UBF, they get the invite. So now by trying to appease people saying the bracket was unbalanced, we have an unbalanced bracket.[/quote]

this kind of situation will happen in literally every possible bracket when there are 3 main competitors, its not fixable
56
#56
1 Frags +
n0wasn't sigh was on velocity?

u mean wasn't sigh on velocity? And no, he wasn't on velocity, he was on 20b, then moved to 8K

[quote=n0]wasn't sigh was on velocity?[/quote]

u mean wasn't sigh on velocity? And no, he wasn't on velocity, he was on 20b, then moved to 8K
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