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So is MGE practice or no?
1
#1
0 Frags +

Note: Okay so the Mentoring section of the Forums was practically dead and I'm impatient so I decided to just ask this here.

I've thrownaway 2500 hours into TF2 and I'm lost and can only compete at about a UGC Silver rank. I have spent more time analyzing my aim then probably anyone I've ever met from 6s to Highlander to MGE and I still can't outaim most players I play with. I'm not sure if this is a problem with my peripherals which are too embarrassing to say or if I'm just exhausted from playing and should take a good long break but I spend so much time trying to practice and it hurts not feeling any sort of improvement.

When I play MGE which is my strongest source of practice, I end up hitting more airshots then players with 2000 elo and sometimes higher but I still can't even put more than 15 frags on them, or consistently defeat them. I was told not to surf rockets or jump too often because it's considered bad etiquette but I don't see anyone else doing it and I lose a lot, so is this person wrong? I dunno what to do.

Note: Okay so the Mentoring section of the Forums was practically dead and I'm impatient so I decided to just ask this here.

I've thrownaway 2500 hours into TF2 and I'm lost and can only compete at about a UGC Silver rank. I have spent more time analyzing my aim then probably anyone I've ever met from 6s to Highlander to MGE and I still can't outaim most players I play with. I'm not sure if this is a problem with my peripherals which are too embarrassing to say or if I'm just exhausted from playing and should take a good long break but I spend so much time trying to practice and it hurts not feeling any sort of improvement.

When I play MGE which is my strongest source of practice, I end up hitting more airshots then players with 2000 elo and sometimes higher but I still can't even put more than 15 frags on them, or consistently defeat them. I was told not to surf rockets or jump too often because it's considered bad etiquette but I don't see anyone else doing it and I lose a lot, so is this person wrong? I dunno what to do.
2
#2
11 Frags +

i mean mge is good practice for getting good aim, but like if ur computer setup is really that bad, i feel like that may be what is limiting you. also dont make your main concern trying to beat people in mge

i mean mge is good practice for getting good aim, but like if ur computer setup is really that bad, i feel like that may be what is limiting you. also dont make your main concern trying to beat people in mge
3
#3
6 Frags +

Just play more 6s and watch demos of pockets/roamers.
Also its fine to surf rockets on mge.

Just play more 6s and watch demos of pockets/roamers.
Also its fine to surf rockets on mge.
4
#4
26 Frags +

1. stop thinking so much
2. mge is a way to shoot at people so you get better at shooting at people simple as that
3. most of the time people in mge servers whining at your playstyle are wrong
4. im also wrong a lot so take everything with a grain of salt
5. not sure what you mean by problematic peripherals but yeah if you have a cruddy mouse and a 60hz monitor you are going to have a bad time its still possible but it takes a lot more work I played multiple seasons with fps drops to under 60 and its the sadzone

2500 hours is a long time (maybe not compared to random dudes who have 5k+ but still) and I know not seeing improvement sucks I literally quit every single thing I do in life unless I feel improvement but if you enjoy tf2 try to stick with it because there WILL be a point where you are better than you were before

IMO if you arent having fun you generally wont be in a good mindset for improving

example being if you find yourself thinking about random negative stuff while mgeing or scrimming its just going to taint your practice time and sap your energy/fun

for me it was constantly thinking about what my opponents thought of me like id maybe randomly run away from someone and pistol them from far away or spam double jump a few times in a row and id just think "man does this guy think im a pussy now" "omg hes going to shit talk me or something"

try to just focus on your aim or movement or both and developing good habits but if its too crazy to think about and you are worried about etiquette and everything just reset to ground 0 and remind yourself that mge is just a place to shoot dudes and everything is fine

if you stick with it you will see improvement I promise its just a matter of time everyone goes through patches where they see less improvement or more improvement how good you become is based on how much you love and commit to the game example b4nny he has liked the game the most and for the longest amount of time so hes the best at it

god damn sorry for the wall but goodluck dude

1. stop thinking so much
2. mge is a way to shoot at people so you get better at shooting at people simple as that
3. most of the time people in mge servers whining at your playstyle are wrong
4. im also wrong a lot so take everything with a grain of salt
5. not sure what you mean by problematic peripherals but yeah if you have a cruddy mouse and a 60hz monitor you are going to have a bad time its still possible but it takes a lot more work I played multiple seasons with fps drops to under 60 and its the sadzone

2500 hours is a long time (maybe not compared to random dudes who have 5k+ but still) and I know not seeing improvement sucks I literally quit every single thing I do in life unless I feel improvement but if you enjoy tf2 try to stick with it because there WILL be a point where you are better than you were before

IMO if you arent having fun you generally wont be in a good mindset for improving

example being if you find yourself thinking about random negative stuff while mgeing or scrimming its just going to taint your practice time and sap your energy/fun

for me it was constantly thinking about what my opponents thought of me like id maybe randomly run away from someone and pistol them from far away or spam double jump a few times in a row and id just think "man does this guy think im a pussy now" "omg hes going to shit talk me or something"

try to just focus on your aim or movement or both and developing good habits but if its too crazy to think about and you are worried about etiquette and everything just reset to ground 0 and remind yourself that mge is just a place to shoot dudes and everything is fine

if you stick with it you will see improvement I promise its just a matter of time everyone goes through patches where they see less improvement or more improvement how good you become is based on how much you love and commit to the game example b4nny he has liked the game the most and for the longest amount of time so hes the best at it

god damn sorry for the wall but goodluck dude
5
#5
4 Frags +

Probably poor gamesense and positioning if you're consistently hitting good shots and still losing.

Probably poor gamesense and positioning if you're consistently hitting good shots and still losing.
6
#6
0 Frags +
lachatI was told not to surf rockets

Surfing damage is perfectly fine. Whoever told you to not surf damage is either incredibly dumb or just trolling you unfortunately. In fact, surfing damage is so crucial to so many classes that it's basically a hindrance to your overall play if you choose not to do it.

lachatI was told not to surf rockets or jump too often because it's considered bad etiquette but I don't see anyone else doing it and I lose a lot, so is this person wrong? I dunno what to do.

Counterjumping can be considered bad etiquette since it's a 1v1 duel but like if you've been knocked off of high ground jumping back up isn't the type of counterjumping that some people do where they just jump straight up for no apparent reason just to get above you and shoot a rocket or 2 at you from above. That kind of counterjumping is what gets people mad.

Assuming that when you say there's a problem with your peripherals, I'm assuming you're talking about your computer's hardware not being able to deliver a good framerate that's playable. A good framerate where you get above 60 fps average (anywhere from 80-100 fps is decently easy to achieve with one or 2 hardware upgrades if you can't get a consistent 60) and it will certainly make your time that you're putting in a bit more worthwhile. I've tinkered with so many graphical and resolution settings on my laptop just so I can get ~40 fps. And while it's dreadful to even have to play in such a low framerate, that's all that I have right now unless I drive an hour and a half to go home and play on my much better gaming pc (which even without a dedicated graphics card can still run tf2 at over 200 fps on max settings) and only happens once every month at best on the weekends, I still manage with what I have

[quote=lachat]I was told not to surf rockets [/quote]
Surfing damage is perfectly fine. Whoever told you to not surf damage is either incredibly dumb or just trolling you unfortunately. In fact, surfing damage is so crucial to so many classes that it's basically a hindrance to your overall play if you choose not to do it.
[quote=lachat]I was told not to surf rockets or jump too often because it's considered bad etiquette but I don't see anyone else doing it and I lose a lot, so is this person wrong? I dunno what to do.[/quote]
Counterjumping can be considered bad etiquette since it's a 1v1 duel but like if you've been knocked off of high ground jumping back up isn't the type of counterjumping that some people do where they just jump straight up for no apparent reason just to get above you and shoot a rocket or 2 at you from above. That kind of counterjumping is what gets people mad.

Assuming that when you say there's a problem with your peripherals, I'm assuming you're talking about your computer's hardware not being able to deliver a good framerate that's playable. A good framerate where you get above 60 fps average (anywhere from 80-100 fps is decently easy to achieve with one or 2 hardware upgrades if you can't get a consistent 60) and it will certainly make your time that you're putting in a bit more worthwhile. I've tinkered with so many graphical and resolution settings on my laptop just so I can get ~40 fps. And while it's dreadful to even have to play in such a low framerate, that's all that I have right now unless I drive an hour and a half to go home and play on my much better gaming pc (which even without a dedicated graphics card can still run tf2 at over 200 fps on max settings) and only happens once every month at best on the weekends, I still manage with what I have
7
#7
-3 Frags +

Surf rockets but don't surf every single rocket because you do want to practice airshots, using shotgun is important, install a graphics config and do everything you can so that you can reach 120 fps

Surf rockets but don't surf every single rocket because you do want to practice airshots, using shotgun is important, install a graphics config and do everything you can so that you can reach 120 fps
8
#8
-1 Frags +

Analise factors other than your aim that could be affecting you.
i.e; a change in sens or DPI, limited mouse/desk space, poor equipment, inconsistencies in hardware or configs, dehydration*, etc.

*

Show Content
Dehydration sounds like a joke, and idk if it applies to tf2 as much, but when i played counter-strike people always said dehydration was a cause to many players sucking, and it was true. Lots of people who didnt drink a lot of water had shaky-er hands, mking it harder to be precise and have steady aim. Like i said, dont know if it applies to TF2, but its something to consider.

Also, try some SOAP Dm in addition to MGE

Analise factors other than your aim that could be affecting you.
i.e; a change in sens or DPI, limited mouse/desk space, poor equipment, inconsistencies in hardware or configs, dehydration*, etc.

*[spoiler]Dehydration sounds like a joke, and idk if it applies to tf2 as much, but when i played counter-strike people always said dehydration was a cause to many players sucking, and it was true. Lots of people who didnt drink a lot of water had shaky-er hands, mking it harder to be precise and have steady aim. Like i said, dont know if it applies to TF2, but its something to consider.[/spoiler]

Also, try some SOAP Dm in addition to MGE
9
#9
13 Frags +

Dont shotgun deny dont blatantly counterjump dont prefire the spawn sound dont shotgun deny. Everything else is fine.I personally feel using glitchy spots (no splash spot on spire) is kind of lame but fair game.

Dont shotgun deny dont blatantly counterjump dont prefire the spawn sound dont shotgun deny. Everything else is fine.I personally feel using glitchy spots (no splash spot on spire) is kind of lame but fair game.
10
#10
-1 Frags +

just because you 'hit more airshots than players with 2000 elo' doesn't mean you have better aim, it just means you have better airshots. having good airshots doesn't mean you have good soldier aim, hitting consistent directs/100 damage rockets in general is where you have better rocket aim.

i think if you wanted to use mge as a practice to get better in 6s, then i think scout v soldier is the best way to improve your aim. being able to fight scouts is more crucial in a 6s game and i think scout v soldier mge transitions better to 6s than soldier v soldier does.

just because you 'hit more airshots than players with 2000 elo' doesn't mean you have better aim, it just means you have better airshots. having good airshots doesn't mean you have good soldier aim, hitting consistent directs/100 damage rockets in general is where you have better rocket aim.

i think if you wanted to use mge as a practice to get better in 6s, then i think scout v soldier is the best way to improve your aim. being able to fight scouts is more crucial in a 6s game and i think scout v soldier mge transitions better to 6s than soldier v soldier does.
11
#11
1 Frags +

I've always hated MGE, but since you enjoy it, there's no reason to stop playing. But I will side with Cheesy, there's no reason to really analyze what's happening in MGE - especially if you're not surfing damage and you're playing the soldier class, because learning when to surf and when not to surf (those situations do exist) is a super important skill, especially if you intend to take ubers some day.

"Bad" peripherals or a bad computer can cause night/day effects. If your FPS is super poor, or it stutters a lot, or your internet is unstable - all of these things will handicap your performance and there isn't much you can do about it as far as practicing goes. If you're using an inconsistent mouse or a keyboard that won't let you press more than 3 keys at once, that could also handicap you.

The only advice I can give you, is if you're not enjoying MGE, do something else. Even pubbing can teach you to aim or at least get comfortable with your sensitivity/set up and expose you to a lot of lop-sided situations. I'd also argue that if you're still stuck in silver and have spent thousands of hours in MGE, it's because there is some problem other than aim at play - either you don't know whats going on, can't play on a team well, or you have some set up problem, or simply haven't played your chosen format enough to really understand whats going on, or perhaps you aim too low when you ask for tryouts/trials. Getting on decent teams is all about who you know.

I remember clearly when I was a team leader, that even if a person claimed to be really good, if nobody I knew, knew them, I was far less likely to even give them a tryout, because putting people you don't know on your team is a big risk. So, it could also be that nobody really knows who you are, and pugging or even lobbying/centering is a good way to meet new and better people - especially now that pub communities just don't exist like they used to give you a huge array of people that know you already.

I've always hated MGE, but since you enjoy it, there's no reason to stop playing. But I will side with Cheesy, there's no reason to really analyze what's happening in MGE - especially if you're not surfing damage and you're playing the soldier class, because learning when to surf and when not to surf (those situations do exist) is a super important skill, especially if you intend to take ubers some day.

"Bad" peripherals or a bad computer can cause night/day effects. If your FPS is super poor, or it stutters a lot, or your internet is unstable - all of these things will handicap your performance and there isn't much you can do about it as far as practicing goes. If you're using an inconsistent mouse or a keyboard that won't let you press more than 3 keys at once, that could also handicap you.

The only advice I can give you, is if you're not enjoying MGE, do something else. Even pubbing can teach you to aim or at least get comfortable with your sensitivity/set up and expose you to a lot of lop-sided situations. I'd also argue that if you're still stuck in silver and have spent thousands of hours in MGE, it's because there is some problem other than aim at play - either you don't know whats going on, can't play on a team well, or you have some set up problem, or simply haven't played your chosen format enough to really understand whats going on, or perhaps you aim too low when you ask for tryouts/trials. Getting on decent teams is all about who you know.

I remember clearly when I was a team leader, that even if a person claimed to be really good, if nobody I knew, knew them, I was far less likely to even give them a tryout, because putting people you don't know on your team is a big risk. So, it could also be that nobody really knows who you are, and pugging or even lobbying/centering is a good way to meet new and better people - especially now that pub communities just don't exist like they used to give you a huge array of people that know you already.
12
#12
14 Frags +

Also something to keep in mind is ive played a LOT of people who have mastered mge strats and hit insane flick airshots but have dogshit ground rockets, awful movement, and horrific rocket jumps. You can get better with mge you just have to play it a certain way. Practice the fundamentals and dont worry about wins/losses and youll see results whereas the apes doing all the lame shit for elo will blow forever

Also something to keep in mind is ive played a LOT of people who have mastered mge strats and hit insane flick airshots but have dogshit ground rockets, awful movement, and horrific rocket jumps. You can get better with mge you just have to play it a certain way. Practice the fundamentals and dont worry about wins/losses and youll see results whereas the apes doing all the lame shit for elo will blow forever
13
#13
0 Frags +

Mge is good practice depending on how you play, It's basically only for aim since the way you play in mge you can't really play in the actual game since it gives you bad habits. But like i said it really depends on how you play. I'd recommend playing dm servers more than just mge but the only bad part about that is that dm servers are almost always dead.... #BringBackDMServers

Mge is good practice depending on how you play, It's basically only for aim since the way you play in mge you can't really play in the actual game since it gives you bad habits. But like i said it really depends on how you play. I'd recommend playing dm servers more than just mge but the only bad part about that is that dm servers are almost always dead.... #BringBackDMServers
14
#14
0 Frags +
marmadukeGRYLLSdont blatantly counterjump

overdoing it sure, but in real games it is a useful tool

[quote=marmadukeGRYLLS]dont blatantly counterjump[/quote]

overdoing it sure, but in real games it is a useful tool
15
#15
0 Frags +

How effective MGE is for real game practice depends entirely on the two people playing it.

Open public MGE is pretty poor for practice beyond stuff like airshots because people add honor rules like no counterjumping even though in a real game you want to counterjump because it's super effective.

Treat it as one dimensional practice. It won't improve your gamesense but you can get better at 1-2 things, more if you do it with a friend and specifically play against each other in ways to practice certain things.

DM is a more effective real game practice for DM classes imo. You get more realistic fights, focusing on low health targets, 1v2s, 1v3s, etc.

How effective MGE is for real game practice depends entirely on the two people playing it.

Open public MGE is pretty poor for practice beyond stuff like airshots because people add honor rules like no counterjumping even though in a real game you want to counterjump because it's super effective.

Treat it as one dimensional practice. It won't improve your gamesense but you can get better at 1-2 things, more if you do it with a friend and specifically play against each other in ways to practice certain things.

DM is a more effective real game practice for DM classes imo. You get more realistic fights, focusing on low health targets, 1v2s, 1v3s, etc.
16
#16
3 Frags +

mge against friend who is similar to your skill level > dm > mge against randoms

mge against friend who is similar to your skill level > dm > mge against randoms
17
#17
-2 Frags +

wtf is this "actual game" or "real game" you peopl keep bringing up

wtf is this "actual game" or "real game" you peopl keep bringing up
18
#18
1 Frags +
CollaidemarmadukeGRYLLSdont blatantly counterjump
overdoing it sure, but in real games it is a useful tool

i feel like in actual games it's such an easy thing to do that there's not much benefit practicing it and you're infinitely better off putting in effort trying to learn to take these fights the hard way so in times where counterjumping is a bad idea (like a soldier is bombing your med) you're more comfortable and can handle the situation better

and the distinction between "good to counterjump" and "bad to counterjump" isn't something you can really learn in mge so practicing counterjumps is kinda a waste of time for you and it will piss off like every single person you play so why bother

[quote=Collaide][quote=marmadukeGRYLLS]dont blatantly counterjump[/quote]

overdoing it sure, but in real games it is a useful tool[/quote]
i feel like in actual games it's such an easy thing to do that there's not much benefit practicing it and you're infinitely better off putting in effort trying to learn to take these fights the hard way so in times where counterjumping is a bad idea (like a soldier is bombing your med) you're more comfortable and can handle the situation better

and the distinction between "good to counterjump" and "bad to counterjump" isn't something you can really learn in mge so practicing counterjumps is kinda a waste of time for you and it will piss off like every single person you play so why bother
19
#19
-3 Frags +
JonesyMcFlyCollaide
overdoing it sure, but in real games it is a useful tool
stuff
marmadukeGRYLLSCollaide
overdoing it sure, but in real games it is a useful tool
Im pretty sure anybody with hands and eyes can shoot rockets straight down.

"overdoing it sure"

KEVCHEVwtf is this "actual game" or "real game" you peopl keep bringing up

pugs, scrims, officials, aka NOT mge

[quote=JonesyMcFly][quote=Collaide]

overdoing it sure, but in real games it is a useful tool[/quote]
stuff[/quote]
[quote=marmadukeGRYLLS][quote=Collaide]

overdoing it sure, but in real games it is a useful tool[/quote]Im pretty sure anybody with hands and eyes can shoot rockets straight down.[/quote]

"overdoing it sure"

[quote=KEVCHEV]wtf is this "actual game" or "real game" you peopl keep bringing up[/quote]
pugs, scrims, officials, aka NOT mge
20
#20
2 Frags +
CollaidemarmadukeGRYLLSdont blatantly counterjump
overdoing it sure, but in real games it is a useful tool

Im pretty sure anybody with hands and eyes can shoot rockets straight down. Person whos getting counter jumped only gets to go for insane flick airshots which is a massive waste of time as those are maybe 1% of your rockets shot unlesss youre mgemike.

Also after re-reading op: are you comfortable with your sens? Are your peripherals so bad it hinders you? You could also be burnt out if youre playing way too much.

[quote=Collaide][quote=marmadukeGRYLLS]dont blatantly counterjump[/quote]

overdoing it sure, but in real games it is a useful tool[/quote]

Im pretty sure anybody with hands and eyes can shoot rockets straight down. Person whos getting counter jumped only gets to go for insane flick airshots which is a massive waste of time as those are maybe 1% of your rockets shot unlesss youre mgemike.


Also after re-reading op: are you comfortable with your sens? Are your peripherals so bad it hinders you? You could also be burnt out if youre playing way too much.
21
#21
2 Frags +

If you aren't seeing the results you want, the most important thing for you to do is not give up. You may have thrown 2500 hours into the game, and while that is a considerable amount of playtime, there are people who have been playing (actually playing and not idling) for close to 10k hours.

These things take a lot of time.

If you aren't seeing the results you want, the most important thing for you to do is not give up. You may have thrown 2500 hours into the game, and while that is a considerable amount of playtime, there are people who have been playing (actually playing and not idling) for close to 10k hours.

These things take a lot of time.
22
#22
0 Frags +

dont counterjump
dont surf rockets more than 20% of the time
dont shotgun deny
dont play spire
play mge 30% of the time that you play 6s if you want to get the best results
also play jump maps

dont counterjump
dont surf rockets more than 20% of the time
dont shotgun deny
dont play spire
play mge 30% of the time that you play 6s if you want to get the best results
also play jump maps
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