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Global whitelist unveiled
posted in News
121
#121
8 Frags +

Winger + Atomizer Jumps:

Viaduct:

Cliff pack to cliff just barely, have to aim for slightly lower place.
House to China.
House to Cliff.
China to that rock on cliff that soldiers stand on, blanking on its name.
Concrete to China through mid.
Concrete to China through japan.
Can't don't Concrete to China through grass.

Winger + Atomizer Jumps:

Viaduct:

Cliff pack to cliff just barely, have to aim for slightly lower place.
House to China.
House to Cliff.
China to that rock on cliff that soldiers stand on, blanking on its name.
Concrete to China through mid.
Concrete to China through japan.
Can't don't Concrete to China through grass.
122
#122
11 Frags +

Machina + Jarate is allowed now? oh lord

Machina + Jarate is allowed now? oh lord
123
#123
20 Frags +

The other nice benefit of a unified whitelist is whereas before 30% of the weapons were banned in 60% of the leagues and 20% were banned in 8%, Valve just sits there and rolls there eyes, but now with only twenty weapons banned in any and all league, Valve might think "Hey, you know, maybe snipers shouldn't be headshot proof."

Seriously, how long has that Dalokoh bug been around?

The other nice benefit of a unified whitelist is whereas before 30% of the weapons were banned in 60% of the leagues and 20% were banned in 8%, Valve just sits there and rolls there eyes, but now with only twenty weapons banned in any and all league, Valve might think "Hey, you know, maybe snipers shouldn't be headshot proof."

Seriously, how long has that Dalokoh bug been around?
124
#124
0 Frags +

So.... same whitelist, but not same map pool or same ruleset?

Are faceit likely to follow this?

And to repeat someone else, if it is decided that this whitelist needs to change, who now changes it?

So.... same whitelist, but not same map pool or same ruleset?

Are faceit likely to follow this?

And to repeat someone else, if it is decided that this whitelist needs to change, who now changes it?
125
#125
48 Frags +

I think we can all agree though, even with it's imperfections, a global whitelist is a good step forward

I think we can all agree though, even with it's imperfections, a global whitelist is a good step forward
126
#126
46 Frags +

I definitely think that there should have been more input from many more people in all the regions of the community realistically. Having been in the mumble (not participating in the talks though) I think the pool was quite small and its not a judgement call only a select few should make. I think this whole thing might've done a lot better if publicized more and input was more open-ended. Like blaze I was also completely unaware of such a transaction until the "day of".

However on the basic principle of the whole idea, I'm all for it. This is the FASTEST way to get certain items nerfed and or buffed. Having the highest caliber of players experimenting with these items and trying to abuse them is much more efficient than relying on a lower level matchmaking pool to dictate what is OP and what isn't. Just think that a better dialogue with more players in the scene and even some of the public sphere would have been better. :)

I definitely think that there should have been more input from many more people in all the regions of the community realistically. Having been in the mumble (not participating in the talks though) I think the pool was quite small and its not a judgement call only a select few should make. I think this whole thing might've done a lot better if publicized more and input was more open-ended. Like blaze I was also completely unaware of such a transaction until the "day of".

However on the basic principle of the whole idea, I'm all for it. This is the FASTEST way to get certain items nerfed and or buffed. Having the highest caliber of players experimenting with these items and trying to abuse them is much more efficient than relying on a lower level matchmaking pool to dictate what is OP and what isn't. Just think that a better dialogue with more players in the scene and even some of the public sphere would have been better. :)
127
#127
9 Frags +
EnterimA lot of the same complaints being made about the cleaver (banned) are also applicable to the Wrap Assassin (newly unbanned), which might be worth looking into if the Atomizer gets cut.

I'm pretty sure the Wrap Assassin recharges in like 15 seconds and does way less damage than the Cleaver. No one is going to use it when they can just use Atomizer tho.

[quote=Enterim]A lot of the same complaints being made about the cleaver (banned) are also applicable to the Wrap Assassin (newly unbanned), which might be worth looking into if the Atomizer gets cut.[/quote]

I'm pretty sure the Wrap Assassin recharges in like 15 seconds and does way less damage than the Cleaver. No one is going to use it when they can just use Atomizer tho.
128
#128
5 Frags +

Gunslinger unbanned? Wow

Gunslinger unbanned? Wow
129
#129
1 Frags +

while a unified whitelist is certainly a step for competitive tf2 to have understanding across every league (or until valve balances every weapon or a well-liked promod of this game is created), i think a better step to precede this one is to create a unifying ruleset of time/rounds/etc and THEN move onto unlocks

while a unified whitelist is certainly a step for competitive tf2 to have understanding across every league (or until valve balances every weapon or a well-liked promod of this game is created), i think a better step to precede this one is to create a unifying ruleset of time/rounds/etc and THEN move onto unlocks
130
#130
21 Frags +

I personally think having the Solemn Vow would've been okay.
Gives medics a more active role in calling targets. giving up the ubersaw for a passive ability that requires teamwork is fine imo

Show Content
better than giving up the boston basher for a passive ability that allows you to triple jump at least

Atomizer unban will be "interesting" to say the least

Most unbans are fine though. I've been hoping for a whitelist blacklist like this for a while. Even if it only lasts a season at least we'll have tried.

Any reason for the Steak to remain banned? Don't want medics to get the small hp pack or is there some bug like the dalokah's bar?

I personally think having the Solemn Vow would've been okay.
Gives medics a more active role in calling targets. giving up the ubersaw for a passive ability that requires teamwork is fine imo

[spoiler]better than giving up the boston basher for a passive ability that allows you to triple jump at least[/spoiler]

Atomizer unban will be "interesting" to say the least

Most unbans are fine though. I've been hoping for a [s]whitelist[/s] blacklist like this for a while. Even if it only lasts a season at least we'll have tried.

Any reason for the Steak to remain banned? Don't want medics to get the small hp pack or is there some bug like the dalokah's bar?
131
#131
-16 Frags +

we should enforce clas limit 1

we should enforce clas limit 1
132
#132
24 Frags +
swagmachinepiss throwing sniper to mid rip tf2

we played 3 scrims against full time jarate sniper last night and got hit by it like 3 times

[quote=swagmachine]piss throwing sniper to mid rip tf2[/quote]
we played 3 scrims against full time jarate sniper last night and got hit by it like 3 times
133
#133
7 Frags +

Winger + Atomizer Jumps:

Gullywash:

Lower ground mid to high ground mid without using the wooden beam.
Can get into the Big Door hiding spot easily.
Choke to wooden planks on upper.
From the very back corner of second to the top of second point.
Lower ground on last to Balcony.

Double jump gets you to most places on this map, atomizer isn't really a big deal here.

Winger + Atomizer Jumps:

Gullywash:

Lower ground mid to high ground mid without using the wooden beam.
Can get into the Big Door hiding spot easily.
Choke to wooden planks on upper.
From the very back corner of second to the top of second point.
Lower ground on last to Balcony.

Double jump gets you to most places on this map, atomizer isn't really a big deal here.
134
#134
-8 Frags +
Tom
This does not apply to highlander, this whitelist only applies to 6v6.

Sorry, was under the impression that it was completely universal.

So it's just a global 6s whitelist then, okay. Not as big of a deal as if it were a global TF2 whitelist. Without that Valve won't care much.

Keep in mind it was a fairly safe assumption because "6s" and "6v6" weren't mentioned anywhere in the post, and it would explain some shit like the Rescue Ranger

[quote=Tom]

This does not apply to highlander, this whitelist only applies to 6v6.[/quote]
Sorry, was under the impression that it was completely universal.

So it's just a global 6s whitelist then, okay. Not as big of a deal as if it were a global TF2 whitelist. Without that Valve won't care much.

Keep in mind it was a fairly safe assumption because "6s" and "6v6" weren't mentioned anywhere in the post, and it would explain some shit like the Rescue Ranger
135
#135
18 Frags +

I think it's important as we go forward with TF2 that we loosen up the whitelist, and set a standard for all regions. This new whitelist is pretty crazy though, I never expected to see stuff like Atomizer, Natascha, Rescue Ranger and Jarate unbanned without getting nerfed first.

I like these unexpected unbans though. A questionable whitelist is not what's going to kill TF2, refusing change might.

I think it's important as we go forward with TF2 that we loosen up the whitelist, and set a standard for all regions. This new whitelist is pretty crazy though, I never expected to see stuff like Atomizer, Natascha, Rescue Ranger and Jarate unbanned without getting nerfed first.

I like these unexpected unbans though. A questionable whitelist is not what's going to kill TF2, refusing change might.
136
#136
27 Frags +
ohioisonfireseems like this will add a lot more variety in terms of "strats", might make tf2 more exciting to watch

this is the mindset that has resulted in tf2 becoming more of a ridiculous clusterfuck over the years:

people who see the key to better gameplay and a diverse metagame as being the shiny new toys that valve gives us rather than from the minds of competitive players themselves

it's the same reason cs has become so bullshit with the smgs and pistols being 85% as good as rifles, thus fucking up the entire money system that made it more strategic than most similar games

if your idea of "strats" is "random coin flip of which team chose the right op laser weapon thingy to counter the other team's op doohicky" then you should just play a shitty fps like overwatch (incidentally, that's the reason valve is doing all this desperate shit right now anyways)

[quote=ohioisonfire]seems like this will add a lot more variety in terms of "strats", might make tf2 more exciting to watch[/quote]

this is the mindset that has resulted in tf2 becoming more of a ridiculous clusterfuck over the years:

people who see the key to better gameplay and a diverse metagame as being the shiny new toys that valve gives us rather than from the minds of competitive players themselves

it's the same reason cs has become so bullshit with the smgs and pistols being 85% as good as rifles, thus fucking up the entire money system that made it more strategic than most similar games

if your idea of "strats" is "random coin flip of which team chose the right op laser weapon thingy to counter the other team's op doohicky" then you should just play a shitty fps like overwatch (incidentally, that's the reason valve is doing all this desperate shit right now anyways)
137
#137
21 Frags +

I can't wait to push into last with a revved up, buffed Natascha Heavy and a Level 3 that's getting pumped by a Rescue Ranger.

I can't wait to push into last with a revved up, buffed Natascha Heavy and a Level 3 that's getting pumped by a Rescue Ranger.
138
#138
10 Frags +
yttriumSo it's just a global 6s whitelist then, okay. Not as big of a deal as if it were a global TF2 whitelist. Without that Valve won't care much.

But Valve doesn't care about HL or 4's right now; they're focusing on 6's.

[quote=yttrium]So it's just a global 6s whitelist then, okay. Not as big of a deal as if it were a global TF2 whitelist. Without that Valve won't care much.[/quote]

But Valve doesn't care about HL or 4's right now; they're focusing on 6's.
139
#139
7 Frags +
EnterimA lot of the same complaints being made about the cleaver (banned) are also applicable to the Wrap Assassin (newly unbanned), which might be worth looking into if the Atomizer gets cut.

ETF2L allowed it last season already. It was used like once and nobody cared. It was also allowed at i58 I think? It wasn't worth giving up the Boston Basher for back then and it won't be worth giving up the Atomizer for now

[quote=Enterim]A lot of the same complaints being made about the cleaver (banned) are also applicable to the Wrap Assassin (newly unbanned), which might be worth looking into if the Atomizer gets cut.[/quote]
ETF2L allowed it last season already. It was used like once and nobody cared. It was also allowed at i58 I think? It wasn't worth giving up the Boston Basher for back then and it won't be worth giving up the Atomizer for now
140
#140
-5 Frags +

what.... the sun on the stick is unbanned? Screw the atomizer, incoming full time pyro.

heh

what.... the sun on the stick is unbanned? Screw the atomizer, incoming full time pyro.



heh
141
#141
-3 Frags +
Cornpop16I think it's important as we go forward with TF2 that we loosen up the whitelist, and set a standard for all regions. This new whitelist is pretty crazy though, I never expected to see stuff like Atomizer, Natascha, Rescue Ranger and Jarate unbanned without getting nerfed first.

I like these unexpected unbans though. A questionable whitelist is not what's going to kill TF2, refusing change might.

this one has so many obvious mistakes,... wait for the non obvious to surface ...

[quote=Cornpop16]I think it's important as we go forward with TF2 that we loosen up the whitelist, and set a standard for all regions. This new whitelist is pretty crazy though, I never expected to see stuff like Atomizer, Natascha, Rescue Ranger and Jarate unbanned without getting nerfed first.

I like these unexpected unbans though. A questionable whitelist is not what's going to kill TF2, refusing change might.[/quote]

this one has so many obvious mistakes,... wait for the non obvious to surface ...
142
#142
11 Frags +
DoomLordThe other nice benefit of a unified whitelist is whereas before 30% of the weapons were banned in 60% of the leagues and 20% were banned in 8%, Valve just sits there and rolls there eyes, but now with only twenty weapons banned in any and all league, Valve might think "Hey, you know, maybe snipers shouldn't be headshot proof."

Seriously, how long has that Dalokoh bug been around?

you've hinted at the bigger problem here

valve takes YEARS to fix anything, and when they do they end up breaking 3 things for every 1 thing they fix in any given update

having hope that this will change when tf2 is being maintained by the lowest level shitters at valve at this point, and even csgo (one of the 3 biggest esports in the world by any measure) can't receive updates to fix ground floor-level issues, is delusional

[quote=DoomLord]The other nice benefit of a unified whitelist is whereas before 30% of the weapons were banned in 60% of the leagues and 20% were banned in 8%, Valve just sits there and rolls there eyes, but now with only twenty weapons banned in any and all league, Valve might think "Hey, you know, maybe snipers shouldn't be headshot proof."

Seriously, how long has that Dalokoh bug been around?[/quote]

you've hinted at the bigger problem here

valve takes YEARS to fix anything, and when they do they end up breaking 3 things for every 1 thing they fix in any given update

having hope that this will change when tf2 is being maintained by the lowest level shitters at valve at this point, and even csgo (one of the 3 biggest esports in the world by any measure) can't receive updates to fix ground floor-level issues, is delusional
143
#143
2 Frags +

hey man like theres always asiafortress if you dont want these yeah?

hey man like theres always asiafortress if you dont want these yeah?
144
#144
37 Frags +
flatlinehonestly the cow mangler is like the slightest direct upgrade in the entire game

http://orig08.deviantart.net/ef92/f/2012/021/f/5/tf2___the_third_degree_by_megaman196-d4n4r46.jpg

[quote=flatline]
honestly the cow mangler is like the slightest direct upgrade in the entire game[/quote]

[img]http://orig08.deviantart.net/ef92/f/2012/021/f/5/tf2___the_third_degree_by_megaman196-d4n4r46.jpg[/img]
145
#145
newbie.tf
3 Frags +

in depth (and very quiet) opinions

We played with what was essentially this whitelist last night in scrims, so I think I can provide an interesting perspective on the whitelist. :)

[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoUqWYers_Q]in depth (and very quiet) opinions[/url]

We played with what was essentially this whitelist last night in scrims, so I think I can provide an interesting perspective on the whitelist. :)
146
#146
8 Frags +
TobAny reason for the Steak to remain banned? Don't want medics to get the small hp pack or is there some bug like the dalokah's bar?

I think it's because of speed buff, eat it in spawn, go fast to mid and when there it will recharge and have a medium health pack to throw.

[quote=Tob]Any reason for the Steak to remain banned? Don't want medics to get the small hp pack or is there some bug like the dalokah's bar?[/quote]
I think it's because of speed buff, eat it in spawn, go fast to mid and when there it will recharge and have a medium health pack to throw.
147
#147
6 Frags +

Winger + Atomizer Jumps:

Sunshine:

Last point to pipe.
Can jump over the right grate thing on last, from the lower ground.
Lower to far left entrance on second without using stairs.
Lower to small pack on second.
Can't get onto the top of the entrance into flowers.
Lower ground to second point.
Can jump onto the fence at choke.
Can use fence to get onto the wooden fence thing at choke.
Can get wooden fench from using high ground in choke.
Cafe to Tower pack.
Mid to top of tetris.
Shed to top of tetris.
Shed to cafe roof.
If you do a little twirl you can go cafe to roof of cafe.

I think thats it.

Winger + Atomizer Jumps:

Sunshine:

Last point to pipe.
Can jump over the right grate thing on last, from the lower ground.
Lower to far left entrance on second without using stairs.
Lower to small pack on second.
Can't get onto the top of the entrance into flowers.
Lower ground to second point.
Can jump onto the fence at choke.
Can use fence to get onto the wooden fence thing at choke.
Can get wooden fench from using high ground in choke.
Cafe to Tower pack.
Mid to top of tetris.
Shed to top of tetris.
Shed to cafe roof.
If you do a little twirl you can go cafe to roof of cafe.

I think thats it.
148
#148
-2 Frags +

Question.

Since this is a "universal" banlist, does this apply to HL as well? Or does it only apply to 6's?

Question.

Since this is a "universal" banlist, does this apply to HL as well? Or does it only apply to 6's?
149
#149
12 Frags +
Antaresscout with winger and atomizer

http://i.imgur.com/jMtXIxv.jpg

inb4 double 185 hp scout bombs at mids , who the fuck needs soldiers

[quote=Antares]scout with winger and atomizer

[img]http://i.imgur.com/jMtXIxv.jpg[/img][/quote]
inb4 double 185 hp scout bombs at mids , who the fuck needs soldiers
150
#150
-14 Frags +
flatlineSandman is banned.

Crit-a-Cola is banned.

USE YOUR EYES TASHEEM
saamin what universe should the rescue ranger not be banned

also why would the cow mangler not be banned

honestly the cow mangler is like the slightest direct upgrade in the entire game, not worth banning it imo even though if you look at the straight stats it is a direct upgrade

It still does less damage per shot.

[quote=flatline]Sandman is banned.

Crit-a-Cola is banned.


USE YOUR EYES TASHEEM

[quote=saam]in what universe should the rescue ranger not be banned

also why would the cow mangler not be banned[/quote]

honestly the cow mangler is like the slightest direct upgrade in the entire game, not worth banning it imo even though if you look at the straight stats it is a direct upgrade[/quote]

It still does less damage per shot.
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