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Mass shooting in Orlando
posted in Off Topic
151
#151
3 Frags +
evglehate to be that guy but if this was a white person who did this they would have got away with it claiming that they are in a mentally insecure state but since this individual has ties with islam he will automatically be depicted as a terrorist.

there's a lot wrong with this post lol

[quote=evgle]hate to be that guy but if this was a white person who did this they would have got away with it claiming that they are in a mentally insecure state but since this individual has ties with islam he will automatically be depicted as a terrorist.[/quote]
there's a lot wrong with this post lol
152
#152
10 Frags +

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
153
#153
0 Frags +
yaughttps://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

http://metrocosm.com/support-isis-muslim-world-perceptions-vs-reality/
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/17/in-nations-with-significant-muslim-populations-much-disdain-for-isis/
Lumping all muslims in with the minority of radical extremists is 100% fucking stupid. It's literally the same thing as lumping all white males in as jesus-freak radical christians, it contributes nothing and is actively harmful to an actual productive discussion.

[quote=yaug]https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/[/quote]
http://metrocosm.com/support-isis-muslim-world-perceptions-vs-reality/
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/17/in-nations-with-significant-muslim-populations-much-disdain-for-isis/
Lumping all muslims in with the minority of radical extremists is 100% fucking stupid. It's literally the same thing as lumping all white males in as jesus-freak radical christians, it contributes nothing and is actively harmful to an actual productive discussion.
154
#154
-7 Frags +

guns should be legal because uh.. because freedom.... because uhhhhhhhhh

guns should be legal because uh.. because freedom.... because uhhhhhhhhh
155
#155
7 Frags +
SpaceGhostsCoffeeyaughttps://www.thereligionofpeace.com/http://metrocosm.com/support-isis-muslim-world-perceptions-vs-reality/
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/17/in-nations-with-significant-muslim-populations-much-disdain-for-isis/
Lumping all muslims in with the minority of radical extremists is 100% fucking stupid. It's literally the same thing as lumping all white males in as jesus-freak radical christians, it contributes nothing and is actively harmful to an actual productive discussion.

Just because they think ISIS is bad doesn't mean they aren't radical. It's 100% fucking stupid to believe if they hate ISIS they automatically drop all their 'values' on how to live, threat women or view western society.

[quote=SpaceGhostsCoffee][quote=yaug]https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/[/quote]
http://metrocosm.com/support-isis-muslim-world-perceptions-vs-reality/
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/17/in-nations-with-significant-muslim-populations-much-disdain-for-isis/
Lumping all muslims in with the minority of radical extremists is 100% fucking stupid. It's literally the same thing as lumping all white males in as jesus-freak radical christians, it contributes nothing and is actively harmful to an actual productive discussion.[/quote]
Just because they think ISIS is bad doesn't mean they aren't radical. It's 100% fucking stupid to believe if they hate ISIS they automatically drop all their 'values' on how to live, threat women or view western society.
156
#156
-3 Frags +

i was actually considering leaving my house and going to dallas pride but fuck that shit, ignore sjw bullshit and think about stuff like this when people say that the LGBT community isn't oppressed

i was actually considering leaving my house and going to dallas pride but fuck that shit, ignore sjw bullshit and think about stuff like this when people say that the LGBT community isn't oppressed
157
#157
2 Frags +

Even if guns were illegal criminals would still get a hold of them. I really don't get why people always say " ban guns " lol.

Even if guns were illegal criminals would still get a hold of them. I really don't get why people always say " ban guns " lol.
158
#158
1 Frags +
remedyi was actually considering leaving my house and going to dallas pride but fuck that shit, ignore sjw bullshit and think about stuff like this when people say that the LGBT community isn't oppressed

This isn't opression, this is terrorism. In the same sense you could say white people are being opressed because it's the majority of people being killed in these attacks.

[quote=remedy]i was actually considering leaving my house and going to dallas pride but fuck that shit, ignore sjw bullshit and think about stuff like this when people say that the LGBT community isn't oppressed[/quote]
This isn't opression, this is terrorism. In the same sense you could say white people are being opressed because it's the majority of people being killed in these attacks.
159
#159
0 Frags +

ya except he didnt go to the white people club and target 50 white people because his religion is against white people

ya except he didnt go to the white people club and target 50 white people because his religion is against white people
160
#160
2 Frags +
BonafideSpaceGhostsCoffeeyaughttps://www.thereligionofpeace.com/http://metrocosm.com/support-isis-muslim-world-perceptions-vs-reality/
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/17/in-nations-with-significant-muslim-populations-much-disdain-for-isis/
Lumping all muslims in with the minority of radical extremists is 100% fucking stupid. It's literally the same thing as lumping all white males in as jesus-freak radical christians, it contributes nothing and is actively harmful to an actual productive discussion.
Just because they think ISIS is bad doesn't mean they aren't radical. It's 100% fucking stupid to believe if they hate ISIS they automatically drop all their 'values' on how to live, threat women or view western society.

Your first sentence is a fair point. I'll even give you that I do disagree severely with a lot of the religion's values and wanting to enact sharia law in places. On first glance that site appeared to just be a garbage ultra-right wing hate site, which lead to me being tired of the inevitable blacklash after terror attacks that happens to totally normal people.

[quote=Bonafide][quote=SpaceGhostsCoffee][quote=yaug]https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/[/quote]
http://metrocosm.com/support-isis-muslim-world-perceptions-vs-reality/
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/17/in-nations-with-significant-muslim-populations-much-disdain-for-isis/
Lumping all muslims in with the minority of radical extremists is 100% fucking stupid. It's literally the same thing as lumping all white males in as jesus-freak radical christians, it contributes nothing and is actively harmful to an actual productive discussion.[/quote]
Just because they think ISIS is bad doesn't mean they aren't radical. It's 100% fucking stupid to believe if they hate ISIS they automatically drop all their 'values' on how to live, threat women or view western society.[/quote]
Your first sentence is a fair point. I'll even give you that I do disagree severely with a lot of the religion's values and wanting to enact sharia law in places. On first glance that site appeared to just be a garbage ultra-right wing hate site, which lead to me being tired of the inevitable blacklash after terror attacks that happens to totally normal people.
161
#161
-2 Frags +
remedyya except he didnt go to the white people club and target 50 white people because his religion is against white people

Do I really have to google for people what certain words even mean?

Opression:
prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or exercise of authority.

This person isn't trying to opress these people by any means, he just wants them to be straight up dead, to scare fear into others, exactly the point terrorism. Opression has a whole other goal.

[quote=remedy]ya except he didnt go to the white people club and target 50 white people because his religion is against white people[/quote]
Do I really have to google for people what certain words even mean? [quote]Opression:
prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or exercise of authority.[/quote]

This person isn't trying to opress these people by any means, he just wants them to be straight up dead, to scare fear into others, exactly the point terrorism. Opression has a whole other goal.
162
#162
11 Frags +
remedyi was actually considering leaving my house and going to dallas pride but fuck that shit, ignore sjw bullshit and think about stuff like this when people say that the LGBT community isn't oppressed

The real oppression involved are our lgbt brothers and sisters suffering in mandated silence in middle eastern countries with backwards laws against being who you are.

The biggest victims of Islamic intolerance are Muslims.

[quote=remedy]i was actually considering leaving my house and going to dallas pride but fuck that shit, ignore sjw bullshit and think about stuff like this when people say that the LGBT community isn't oppressed[/quote]

The real oppression involved are our lgbt brothers and sisters suffering in mandated silence in middle eastern countries with backwards laws against being who you are.

The biggest victims of Islamic intolerance are Muslims.
163
#163
0 Frags +
BarryChuckleTurinGun laws don't prevent terrorism, look at Brussels and Paris.

Sure it might lower petty crime but with the state of poverty in inner cities, knives will be used instead.

Please explain to me how someone is going to walk into a crowded area and kill 50 people with a knife.
SpaceCadetGuns are not to blame for these shootings. Crazy is to blame for these mass shootings. In my opinion, the only way to combat these crazy shooters is to have responsible trained gun owners around who are armed and prepared to respond in defense of their life...
It's crowded, it's noisy, everone is screaming, maybe it's dark, there's a stampede, and you don't know what the fuck is going on. You don't know who the shooter is or where they are. You pull your gun out: what are you going to do? Shit there's a guy with a gun, better shoot him! Except that was also a concealed carry John Wayne cowboy who thought they could be a hero, and you just shot him dead. And killed the person behind him. And now someone else is shooting at you. Is this the original shooter, or do they just think that YOU'RE the shooter? Fuck knows, better shoot them.

tl:dr introducing a bunch more people with guns to a situation l ike this is unlikely to get FEWER people killed, unless they were ridiculously lucky enough to be in postiion to end it as soon as it starts.

Anyway arguing the "what ifs" about whether concealed carry citizens would help or not in these situations is pretty pointless, because all of the statistics point to one simple fact: the more gun owners out there, the more gun deaths there are.

America has a huge problem and I honestly can't believe how many otherwise reasonable people are just sticking their heads in the sand and pretending widespread gun ownership is a good idea regardless of what happens over and over and over again. Guess I'll see you in the next thread after the next mass shooting defending gun ownership while people bury their loved ones.

:(

I mean it sounds unrealistic but mass stabbings are real and they can get especially deadly when a group of people go on mass stabbings together.

Also, a murderer could easily be deterred into walking into a place and shooting it up if 5 or 6 could be armed. The introduction of armed security guards could also deter shooters.

By the way, I really like that a lot of us can have civilized discussion on politics. This is what politics is about: working with others and their idealologies to solve a problem and not just blindly slinging shit at anyone who opposes you.

[quote=BarryChuckle][quote=Turin]Gun laws don't prevent terrorism, look at Brussels and Paris.

Sure it might lower petty crime but with the state of poverty in inner cities, knives will be used instead.[/quote]

Please explain to me how someone is going to walk into a crowded area and kill 50 people with a knife.


[quote=SpaceCadet]Guns are not to blame for these shootings. Crazy is to blame for these mass shootings. In my opinion, the only way to combat these crazy shooters is to have responsible trained gun owners around who are armed and prepared to respond in defense of their life...[/quote]

It's crowded, it's noisy, everone is screaming, maybe it's dark, there's a stampede, and you don't know what the fuck is going on. You don't know who the shooter is or where they are. You pull your gun out: what are you going to do? Shit there's a guy with a gun, better shoot him! Except that was also a concealed carry John Wayne cowboy who thought they could be a hero, and you just shot him dead. And killed the person behind him. And now someone else is shooting at you. Is this the original shooter, or do they just think that YOU'RE the shooter? Fuck knows, better shoot them.

tl:dr introducing a bunch more people with guns to a situation l ike this is unlikely to get FEWER people killed, unless they were ridiculously lucky enough to be in postiion to end it as soon as it starts.

Anyway arguing the "what ifs" about whether concealed carry citizens would help or not in these situations is pretty pointless, because all of the statistics point to one simple fact: the more gun owners out there, the more gun deaths there are.

America has a huge problem and I honestly can't believe how many otherwise reasonable people are just sticking their heads in the sand and pretending widespread gun ownership is a good idea regardless of what happens over and over and over again. Guess I'll see you in the next thread after the next mass shooting defending gun ownership while people bury their loved ones.

:([/quote]

I mean it sounds unrealistic but mass stabbings are real and they can get especially deadly when a group of people go on mass stabbings together.

Also, a murderer could easily be deterred into walking into a place and shooting it up if 5 or 6 could be armed. The introduction of armed security guards could also deter shooters.

By the way, I really like that a lot of us can have civilized discussion on politics. This is what politics is about: working with others and their idealologies to solve a problem and not just blindly slinging shit at anyone who opposes you.
164
#164
4 Frags +
drshdwpuppetremedyi was actually considering leaving my house and going to dallas pride but fuck that shit, ignore sjw bullshit and think about stuff like this when people say that the LGBT community isn't oppressed
The real oppression involved are our lgbt brothers and sisters suffering in mandated silence in middle eastern countries with backwards laws against being who you are.

The biggest victims of Islamic intolerance are Muslims.

is it not ironic that they subscribe to the system that oppresses them

[quote=drshdwpuppet][quote=remedy]i was actually considering leaving my house and going to dallas pride but fuck that shit, ignore sjw bullshit and think about stuff like this when people say that the LGBT community isn't oppressed[/quote]

The real oppression involved are our lgbt brothers and sisters suffering in mandated silence in middle eastern countries with backwards laws against being who you are.

The biggest victims of Islamic intolerance are Muslims.[/quote]
is it not ironic that they subscribe to the system that oppresses them
165
#165
3 Frags +

im scared

im scared
166
#166
-1 Frags +

why do you feel the need to post this here

why do you feel the need to post this here
167
#167
-5 Frags +
phobiaEven if guns were illegal criminals would still get a hold of them. I really don't get why people always say " ban guns " lol.

because they don't think, they just speak

[quote=phobia]Even if guns were illegal criminals would still get a hold of them. I really don't get why people always say " ban guns " lol.[/quote]
because they don't think, they just speak
168
#168
1 Frags +
toads_tfdrshdwpuppetremedyi was actually considering leaving my house and going to dallas pride but fuck that shit, ignore sjw bullshit and think about stuff like this when people say that the LGBT community isn't oppressed
The real oppression involved are our lgbt brothers and sisters suffering in mandated silence in middle eastern countries with backwards laws against being who you are.

The biggest victims of Islamic intolerance are Muslims.
is it not ironic that they subscribe to the system that oppresses them

It's not like they can really say "yeah I don't want to deal with this, let's stop." If you stop subscribing to it and going against it, at best you'll leave everything you know to get away from it (hence the refugee crisis), maybe join a militia instead and spend the next couple years (if you live that long) fighting your own people, and at worst you'll be executed for it. At least, this is in the case of ISIS.

It seems really obvious to us that there's some huge cultural oppression going on in much of the middle east that needs to be dealt with, but for the people there many see it as the way things are. It hasn't even been a lifetime since the oppression against blacks and women in America was widely recognized, and is still being dealt with today, don't forget.

[quote=toads_tf][quote=drshdwpuppet][quote=remedy]i was actually considering leaving my house and going to dallas pride but fuck that shit, ignore sjw bullshit and think about stuff like this when people say that the LGBT community isn't oppressed[/quote]

The real oppression involved are our lgbt brothers and sisters suffering in mandated silence in middle eastern countries with backwards laws against being who you are.

The biggest victims of Islamic intolerance are Muslims.[/quote]
is it not ironic that they subscribe to the system that oppresses them[/quote]
It's not like they can really say "yeah I don't want to deal with this, let's stop." If you stop subscribing to it and going against it, at best you'll leave everything you know to get away from it (hence the refugee crisis), maybe join a militia instead and spend the next couple years (if you live that long) fighting your own people, and at worst you'll be executed for it. At least, this is in the case of ISIS.

It seems really obvious to us that there's some huge cultural oppression going on in much of the middle east that needs to be dealt with, but for the people there many see it as the way things are. It hasn't even been a lifetime since the oppression against blacks and women in America was widely recognized, and is still being dealt with today, don't forget.
169
#169
13 Frags +
phobiaEven if guns were illegal criminals would still get a hold of them. I really don't get why people always say " ban guns " lol.

large crime syndicates with international smuggling rings could acquire guns. Street level muggers and spur of the moment psychopaths could not. If a gun requires criminal connections and costs several thousand dollars, people who REALLY REALLY REALLY want one can still get one, but the autistic kid who wants to shoot up his school can't.

This is ignoring that not having tons of guns available to the public has a pretty positive effect on noncriminal gun deaths (which happen to be the vast majority of gun deaths). The average person can't be trusted not to kill themselves or their friends with a gun tbh.

[quote=phobia]Even if guns were illegal criminals would still get a hold of them. I really don't get why people always say " ban guns " lol.[/quote]
large crime syndicates with international smuggling rings could acquire guns. Street level muggers and spur of the moment psychopaths could not. If a gun requires criminal connections and costs several thousand dollars, people who REALLY REALLY REALLY want one can still get one, but the autistic kid who wants to shoot up his school can't.

This is ignoring that not having tons of guns available to the public has a pretty positive effect on noncriminal gun deaths (which happen to be the vast majority of gun deaths). The average person can't be trusted not to kill themselves or their friends with a gun tbh.
170
#170
0 Frags +

Blaming religion is like blaming video games in a case of a school shooting

Blaming religion is like blaming video games in a case of a school shooting
171
#171
6 Frags +
dizastaBlaming religion is like blaming video games in a case of a school shooting

It's not though. There was an idea working in this man's mind. It may not be what you'd consider main stream religion, but unless you consider him to be completely insane then, like all apparently rational mass killers, he needed something to dehumanise his victims.

In his case it looks like it was the hateful religious ideology of Islamic extremism. You can argue it's not theologically sound, but it's still a religious idea at the heart of his motivation.

Speculating about how important it was to him individually is a bit pointless as we'll never really know, but there was clearly a failure to successfully challenge those ideas within him. Maybe it would have been possible, maybe not. I doubt an FBI investigation would have been the best way to do that, but it seems it was the only official contact.

[quote=dizasta]Blaming religion is like blaming video games in a case of a school shooting[/quote]
It's not though. There was an idea working in this man's mind. It may not be what you'd consider main stream religion, but unless you consider him to be completely insane then, like all apparently rational mass killers, he needed something to dehumanise his victims.

In his case it looks like it was the hateful religious ideology of Islamic extremism. You can argue it's not theologically sound, but it's still a religious idea at the heart of his motivation.

Speculating about how important it was to him individually is a bit pointless as we'll never really know, but there was clearly a failure to successfully challenge those ideas within him. Maybe it would have been possible, maybe not. I doubt an FBI investigation would have been the best way to do that, but it seems it was the only official contact.
172
#172
0 Frags +
BarryChucklePlease explain to me how someone is going to walk into a crowded area and kill 50 people with a knife.

It's crowded, it's noisy, everone is screaming, maybe it's dark, there's a stampede, and you don't know what the fuck is going on. You don't know who the shooter is or where they are. You pull your gun out: what are you going to do? Shit there's a guy with a gun, better shoot him! Except that was also a concealed carry John Wayne cowboy who thought they could be a hero, and you just shot him dead. And killed the person behind him. And now someone else is shooting at you. Is this the original shooter, or do they just think that YOU'RE the shooter? Fuck knows, better shoot them.

Guess I'll see you in the next thread after the next mass shooting defending gun ownership while people bury their loved ones.
:(

this was spot on.

[quote=BarryChuckle]
Please explain to me how someone is going to walk into a crowded area and kill 50 people with a knife.

It's crowded, it's noisy, everone is screaming, maybe it's dark, there's a stampede, and you don't know what the fuck is going on. You don't know who the shooter is or where they are. You pull your gun out: what are you going to do? Shit there's a guy with a gun, better shoot him! Except that was also a concealed carry John Wayne cowboy who thought they could be a hero, and you just shot him dead. And killed the person behind him. And now someone else is shooting at you. Is this the original shooter, or do they just think that YOU'RE the shooter? Fuck knows, better shoot them.

Guess I'll see you in the next thread after the next mass shooting defending gun ownership while people bury their loved ones.
:([/quote]
this was spot on.
173
#173
6 Frags +

https://twitter.com/JoshButler/status/742127183812952064

https://twitter.com/JoshButler/status/742127183812952064
174
#174
1 Frags +
Bonafidehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg

I advise you all to watch this video (and more of Shapiro's work while you're at it, he's excellent). It really puts the whole "ISIS is just like the Westboro Baptist Church" argument to rest. About 100 people in some state who show up with offensive signs at funerals is totally comparable to millions of people all over the globe with radicalized beliefs who are okay with killing people in the same of said belief.

I also read a lot about people saying religion in general is to blame. While I agree that in general it's shit, there's only one in 2016 that actively kills people in the name of it. Comparing it to medieval times and the crusades is not an argument. I thought the world was supposed to be past that after all? The thing is Islam is not just a religion. Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military components.

[quote=Bonafide]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg[/quote]
I advise you all to watch this video (and more of Shapiro's work while you're at it, he's excellent). It really puts the whole "ISIS is just like the Westboro Baptist Church" argument to rest. About 100 people in some state who show up with offensive signs at funerals is totally comparable to millions of people all over the globe with radicalized beliefs who are okay with killing people in the same of said belief.

I also read a lot about people saying religion in general is to blame. While I agree that in general it's shit, there's only one in 2016 that actively kills people in the name of it. Comparing it to medieval times and the crusades is not an argument. I thought the world was supposed to be past that after all? The thing is Islam is not just a religion. Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military components.
175
#175
-1 Frags +

anyone defending the gun laws in america are stupid.

anyone advocating people being able to walk into a store and purchase a gun are stupid.

denial rates are less than 1% on instore purchases.

i wanted to go to america to study after high school, I'm an american citizen but myself and my family are almost too afraid to go because of stupid shit like this.

I'm not going to study there, ever. And my parents were almost too afraid to go they would miss my great aunts 100th.

what does it take for you people to understand?!?!? another mass shooting? smh

condolences to the families

anyone defending the gun laws in america are stupid.

anyone advocating people being able to walk into a store and purchase a gun are stupid.

denial rates are less than 1% on instore purchases.

i wanted to go to america to study after high school, I'm an american citizen but myself and my family are almost too afraid to go because of stupid shit like this.

I'm not going to study there, ever. And my parents were almost too afraid to go they would miss my great aunts 100th.

what does it take for you people to understand?!?!? another mass shooting? smh

condolences to the families
176
#176
1 Frags +
Laanhttps://twitter.com/JoshButler/status/742127183812952064

While I am glad Australia has not been targeted, I think it is total ignorance on this guys part to try and compare Australia and America with such a blanket statement. Both countries have 2 completely seperate histories and cultures. Both countries were founded on different principles and beliefs. Like it or not, the Right to Bear Arms runs very deep in this country and a whole lot of us like it that way. There is no way your laws will work in this country but I am very glad they work for you down under.

[quote=Laan]https://twitter.com/JoshButler/status/742127183812952064[/quote]

While I am glad Australia has not been targeted, I think it is total ignorance on this guys part to try and compare Australia and America with such a blanket statement. Both countries have 2 completely seperate histories and cultures. Both countries were founded on different principles and beliefs. Like it or not, the Right to Bear Arms runs very deep in this country and a whole lot of us like it that way. There is no way your laws will work in this country but I am very glad they work for you down under.
177
#177
1 Frags +

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rR9IaXH1M0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9UFyNy-rw4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rR9IaXH1M0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9UFyNy-rw4
178
#178
7 Frags +
squidthe only issue surrounding guns in these cases is the ease in which mentally ill people can acquire them--normal, reasonable people should and should continue to have access to any reasonable civil liberties

What mental illness are you diagnosing the shooter with?

[quote=squid]the only issue surrounding guns in these cases is the ease in which mentally ill people can acquire them--normal, reasonable people should and should continue to have access to any reasonable civil liberties[/quote]
What mental illness are you diagnosing the shooter with?
179
#179
4 Frags +

This has very little to do with mental illness. IS consists of criminal scum. People that never have been religious and suddenly become radical Islamist trying to find glory in the IS.

Strict gun laws should be applied quicker to certain tagged individuals, instead of waiting until it's to late.
The terrorists in Belgium and France where known criminals and tagged individuals but nobody did anything.
Even this guy was investigated by the FBI for suspicious shit he did in the past and yet he still could get guns.

People can buy rocket launchers and miniguns or w/e for all I care, just blacklist these shady people sooner.

This has very little to do with mental illness. IS consists of criminal scum. People that never have been religious and suddenly become radical Islamist trying to find glory in the IS.

Strict gun laws should be applied quicker to certain tagged individuals, instead of waiting until it's to late.
The terrorists in Belgium and France where known criminals and tagged individuals but nobody did anything.
Even this guy was investigated by the FBI for suspicious shit he did in the past and yet he still could get guns.

People can buy rocket launchers and miniguns or w/e for all I care, just blacklist these shady people sooner.
180
#180
4 Frags +
eeeThis is ignoring that not having tons of guns available to the public has a pretty positive effect on noncriminal gun deaths (which happen to be the vast majority of gun deaths). The average person can't be trusted not to kill themselves or their friends with a gun tbh.

then how come the average person with a gun hasnt killed themselves or their friend? the 60% of gun deaths being suicides is a problem definitely, but that could be fixed with mental illness (or instability) checks making it more difficult for them to acquire a gun. But even then, if somebody really wants to kill themselves, it IS their right to do it.

not to mention that's a guilty until proven innocent way of thinking, which isn't justice at all.

[quote=eee]
This is ignoring that not having tons of guns available to the public has a pretty positive effect on noncriminal gun deaths (which happen to be the vast majority of gun deaths). The average person can't be trusted not to kill themselves or their friends with a gun tbh.[/quote]
then how come the average person with a gun hasnt killed themselves or their friend? the 60% of gun deaths being suicides is a problem definitely, but that could be fixed with mental illness (or instability) checks making it more difficult for them to acquire a gun. But even then, if somebody really wants to kill themselves, it IS their right to do it.

not to mention that's a guilty until proven innocent way of thinking, which isn't justice at all.
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