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Sandbagging
31
#31
4 Frags +
thrasherJohnMilterNeither of my teammates seem to understand that trasher thinks esea dropped the ball by not moving his own team to main.
I'd be lying if I said that we werent asking to be moved up. We scrim main teams all the time and it's always a good game. I'm also talking about teams like AG and Dream Boat tho. Those teams would be highly competitive in main.

The same can be said for top main teams being competitive with lower invite teams, and top open teams being competitive with lower IM teams. There is never a large skill gap between the top and bottom of neighboring divisions.

[quote=thrasher][quote=JohnMilter]Neither of my teammates seem to understand that trasher thinks esea dropped the ball by not moving his own team to main.[/quote]

I'd be lying if I said that we werent asking to be moved up. We scrim main teams all the time and it's always a good game. I'm also talking about teams like AG and Dream Boat tho. Those teams would be highly competitive in main.[/quote]

The same can be said for top main teams being competitive with lower invite teams, and top open teams being competitive with lower IM teams. There is never a large skill gap between the top and bottom of neighboring divisions.
32
#32
2 Frags +

The definition I'm familiar with is whenever a team/player intentionally plays worse than normal so as not to reveal any strategies or playstyles to the opposition

The definition I'm familiar with is whenever a team/player intentionally plays worse than normal so as not to reveal any strategies or playstyles to the opposition
33
#33
6 Frags +
KhakiThe definition I'm familiar with is whenever a team/player intentionally plays worse than normal so as not to reveal any strategies or playstyles to the opposition

That's "throwing."

[quote=Khaki]The definition I'm familiar with is whenever a team/player intentionally plays worse than normal so as not to reveal any strategies or playstyles to the opposition[/quote]

That's "throwing."
34
#34
14 Frags +

i would be fine with budsquad if powah didn't go scout at all
that is just mean

i would be fine with budsquad if powah didn't go scout at all
that is just mean
35
#35
-10 Frags +

I honestly don't have a problem with sandbagging unless it involves an extreme difference in skill level (i.e a ex-Plat HL player bumming around in Iron 6s, or someone who should me mid-high Main playing on a low-mid Open team.).

I honestly don't have a problem with sandbagging unless it involves an extreme difference in skill level (i.e a ex-Plat HL player bumming around in Iron 6s, or someone who should me mid-high Main playing on a low-mid Open team.).
36
#36
1 Frags +
TerywjKhakiThe definition I'm familiar with is whenever a team/player intentionally plays worse than normal so as not to reveal any strategies or playstyles to the opposition
That's "throwing."

throwing would be losing.

What Khaki describes is called "Playing Down to Your Opponents" and it's a very standard thing in competitive sports like hockey and football. It's actually a smart move.

[quote=Terywj][quote=Khaki]The definition I'm familiar with is whenever a team/player intentionally plays worse than normal so as not to reveal any strategies or playstyles to the opposition[/quote]

That's "throwing."[/quote]

throwing would be losing.

What Khaki describes is called "Playing Down to Your Opponents" and it's a very standard thing in competitive sports like hockey and football. It's actually a smart move.
37
#37
4 Frags +
ViperStrikerI honestly don't have a problem with sandbagging unless it involves an extreme difference in skill level (i.e a ex-Plat HL player bumming around in Iron 6s, or someone who should me mid-high Main playing on a low-mid Open team.).

If it doesn't involve skill difference then it isn't sandbagging.

[quote=ViperStriker]I honestly don't have a problem with sandbagging unless it involves an extreme difference in skill level (i.e a ex-Plat HL player bumming around in Iron 6s, or someone who should me mid-high Main playing on a low-mid Open team.).[/quote]

If it doesn't involve skill difference then it isn't sandbagging.
38
#38
-15 Frags +

Sandbagging is impossible to avoid because ESEA will not move you up unless you have started from Open. The regular season doesn't matter too much as long as you win a majority of games and make it to the playoffs thats when it becomes real. We just lost one game this week with 2 backups playing anyway so it's not like we're light years ahead of everyone. S14 Open is like S10 IM, regarding the top 10 anyway. Winning open isn't a big accomplishment. Whether you finish 1st, 2nd, or 3rd etc. As long as you stay alive you're going to get moved up anyway which was the main intention of some teams having to sit through a season of open. If the super teams were truly trying to sandbag all the competition the starting lineups would look a lot different and so would the effort. Winning open isn't really a big accomplishment when there's 3 divisions above you. The main goal is to continually move up having control of the roster if you're planning on staying long term.

It's the truth. If seanbuds team main classed, or if my team had solidsnake and spadez starting instead while playing 5 days a week like we did in IM\Invite... It'd obviously be a lot different. But you have to sit through an entire season of pug like matches and try to have fun with it. The team that just beat us though is 100% legit they're going to do well if they stay together. They could've beaten us even with our normal people playing.

Sandbagging is impossible to avoid because ESEA will not move you up unless you have started from Open. The regular season doesn't matter too much as long as you win a majority of games and make it to the playoffs thats when it becomes real. We just lost one game this week with 2 backups playing anyway so it's not like we're light years ahead of everyone. S14 Open is like S10 IM, regarding the top 10 anyway. Winning open isn't a big accomplishment. Whether you finish 1st, 2nd, or 3rd etc. As long as you stay alive you're going to get moved up anyway which was the main intention of some teams having to sit through a season of open. If the super teams were truly trying to sandbag all the competition the starting lineups would look a lot different and so would the effort. Winning open isn't really a big accomplishment when there's 3 divisions above you. The main goal is to continually move up having control of the roster if you're planning on staying long term.

It's the truth. If seanbuds team main classed, or if my team had solidsnake and spadez starting instead while playing 5 days a week like we did in IM\Invite... It'd obviously be a lot different. But you have to sit through an entire season of pug like matches and try to have fun with it. The team that just beat us though is 100% legit they're going to do well if they stay together. They could've beaten us even with our normal people playing.
39
#39
2 Frags +
grci would be fine with budsquad if powah didn't go scout at all
that is just mean

2 late now ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[quote=grc]i would be fine with budsquad if powah didn't go scout at all
that is just mean[/quote]
2 late now ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
40
#40
3 Frags +

The term comes from fighting games, meaning not trying or intentionally throwing.

AloSecdingoi really like complaining when someone is better than meits funny because you were on a main team at the start of the season and now you're in open lol

I don't understand how retarded you have to be to think dingo isn't in main because of underperformance

The term comes from fighting games, meaning not trying or intentionally throwing.

[quote=AloSec][quote=dingo]i really like complaining when someone is better than me[/quote]
its funny because you were on a main team at the start of the season and now you're in open lol[/quote]

I don't understand how retarded you have to be to think dingo isn't in main because of underperformance
41
#41
19 Frags +
blinKWinning open isn't a big accomplishment.

I can't agree with this. Yes, there are 3 higher divisions above this one, but for a player who has never been in nor won any of them, winning open is a big deal and is an accomplishment he could and should be proud of.
What you're saying is that you could let a top main team play in any UGC 6s division and the admins should be like: hey it's cool man, it's just UGC.

[quote=blinK]Winning open isn't a big accomplishment.[/quote]
I can't agree with this. Yes, there are 3 higher divisions above this one, but for a player who has never been in nor won any of them, winning open is a big deal and is an accomplishment he could and should be proud of.
What you're saying is that you could let a top main team play in any UGC 6s division and the admins should be like: hey it's cool man, it's just UGC.
42
#42
16 Frags +

winning open feels wonderful, too bad ive never done it

rip community clown college 2012-2012

winning open feels wonderful, too bad ive never done it

rip community clown college 2012-2012
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#43
5 Frags +

Shoulda stayed on pocket

Shoulda stayed on pocket
44
#44
-26 Frags +

It's an accomplishment, but not a major one. I wouldn't be super proud over it because you're a long ways from being the best there is. I don't think athletes set goals to be the best minor league team or individual player ever. The real goal is progression and continuing to move up and get better to ultimately become the best over all. I think there's a very big difference in winning open and winning invite. Open champs get to move up the following season in IM and see what it's like playing vs better competition. Hopefully you can survive and continue to progress. Once you win in invite that's it, you're the best of the best no question. The goal has been reached. Perhaps it's just a different mind set or perspective. Winning open can be done any season by any team wants to truly sandbag the division. Which has been done quite a lot in the past. I'm saying this: it's not that important to finish #1 over #2, because regardless you're both going to get moved up which is what you should really be focused on. Open is a gateway to either move up or die. I guess that's why ESEA makes every team start in Open regardless of their skill level.

If I went and made a team for UGC it would be for fun. If we won sure it's an accomplishment but nothing special in my eyes. Why? Because it's a low level competition. I wanted to play with some friends from xensity this season but couldn't find a roster to give enough room for us in IM or Main to take control so we had to start in open. Just the way it is. The teams you consider to be "sandbagging" in open would field a completely different lineup and work ethic if playing in a higher division. Truth.

It's an accomplishment, but not a major one. I wouldn't be super proud over it because you're a long ways from being the best there is. I don't think athletes set goals to be the best minor league team or individual player ever. The real goal is progression and continuing to move up and get better to ultimately become the best over all. I think there's a very big difference in winning open and winning invite. Open champs get to move up the following season in IM and see what it's like playing vs better competition. Hopefully you can survive and continue to progress. Once you win in invite that's it, you're the best of the best no question. The goal has been reached. Perhaps it's just a different mind set or perspective. Winning open can be done any season by any team wants to truly sandbag the division. Which has been done quite a lot in the past. I'm saying this: it's not that important to finish #1 over #2, because regardless you're both going to get moved up which is what you should really be focused on. Open is a gateway to either move up or die. I guess that's why ESEA makes every team start in Open regardless of their skill level.

If I went and made a team for UGC it would be for fun. If we won sure it's an accomplishment but nothing special in my eyes. Why? Because it's a low level competition. I wanted to play with some friends from xensity this season but couldn't find a roster to give enough room for us in IM or Main to take control so we had to start in open. Just the way it is. The teams you consider to be "sandbagging" in open would field a completely different lineup and work ethic if playing in a higher division. Truth.
45
#45
9 Frags +

open players in steel

open players in steel
46
#46
30 Frags +

blink, I know its gonna happen again. You gotta stop the multi-paragraph ego trip posts that are feeding your own ego before they start.

blink, I know its gonna happen again. You gotta stop the multi-paragraph ego trip posts that are feeding your own ego before they start.
47
#47
6 Frags +
Ringo__StarrAloSecdingoi really like complaining when someone is better than meits funny because you were on a main team at the start of the season and now you're in open lol
I don't understand how retarded you have to be to think dingo isn't in main because of underperformance

not what I was going for at all

I'm saying dingo has the skill to play in main but instead chooses to play in open

is that not the literal definition of sandbagging?

[quote=Ringo__Starr]
[quote=AloSec][quote=dingo]i really like complaining when someone is better than me[/quote]
its funny because you were on a main team at the start of the season and now you're in open lol[/quote]

I don't understand how retarded you have to be to think dingo isn't in main because of underperformance[/quote]
not what I was going for at all

I'm saying dingo has the skill to play in main but instead chooses to play in open

is that not the literal definition of sandbagging?
48
#48
7 Frags +
blinKIt's an accomplishment, but not a major one.

WTF Blinky... After we won UGC platinum 2.5 years ago, I put that on my resume.

http://www.ugcleague.com/rankings_tf26_season6.cfm

[quote=blinK]It's an accomplishment, but not a major one.[/quote]

WTF Blinky... After we won UGC platinum 2.5 years ago, I put that on my resume.

http://www.ugcleague.com/rankings_tf26_season6.cfm
49
#49
11 Frags +
thorn_http://www.ugcleague.com/rankings_tf26_season6.cfm

oh god five bads and a mad

will ranka lee ever grace 6s again with his superior tf2 skill or will he keep playing on the teek forever and complain how he hates tf2 for 4 hours every day

[quote=thorn_]
http://www.ugcleague.com/rankings_tf26_season6.cfm[/quote]
oh god five bads and a mad

will ranka lee ever grace 6s again with his superior tf2 skill or will he keep playing on the teek forever and complain how he hates tf2 for 4 hours every day
50
#50
1 Frags +

Every morning I wake up to blinky posts to -frag is a good morning

Every morning I wake up to blinky posts to -frag is a good morning
51
#51
5 Frags +
AloSecRingo__StarrAloSecdingoi really like complaining when someone is better than meits funny because you were on a main team at the start of the season and now you're in open lol
I don't understand how retarded you have to be to think dingo isn't in main because of underperformance
not what I was going for at all

I'm saying dingo has the skill to play in main but instead chooses to play in open

is that not the literal definition of sandbagging?

99.9999% of main and im teams play after 11, i can't play after 11.
it must be some secret plot to have no fun playing against people in divs below me
damn i really hate competition in competitive

[quote=AloSec][quote=Ringo__Starr]
[quote=AloSec][quote=dingo]i really like complaining when someone is better than me[/quote]
its funny because you were on a main team at the start of the season and now you're in open lol[/quote]

I don't understand how retarded you have to be to think dingo isn't in main because of underperformance[/quote]
not what I was going for at all

I'm saying dingo has the skill to play in main but instead chooses to play in open

is that not the literal definition of sandbagging?[/quote]
99.9999% of main and im teams play after 11, i can't play after 11.
it must be some secret plot to have no fun playing against people in divs below me
damn i really hate competition in competitive
52
#52
-12 Frags +

Fortunately we're playing Team Fortress 2.
It's easy to look at an ex-invite player and say he's a sandbagger, but I'm sure if Mangachu decided to play in IM none of you would say he's sandbagging
As far as I'm concerned there are no sandbaggers in Open

Fortunately we're playing [i]Team[/i] Fortress 2.
It's easy to look at an ex-invite player and say he's a sandbagger, but I'm sure if Mangachu decided to play in IM none of you would say he's sandbagging
As far as I'm concerned there are no sandbaggers in Open
53
#53
7 Frags +

what

what
54
#54
1 Frags +
kevthorn_http://www.ugcleague.com/rankings_tf26_season6.cfmoh god five bads and a mad

will ranka lee ever grace 6s again with his superior tf2 skill or will he keep playing on the teek forever and complain how he hates tf2 for 4 hours every day

nah hes just gonna keep shittalking on those alts of his

[quote=kev][quote=thorn_]
http://www.ugcleague.com/rankings_tf26_season6.cfm[/quote]
oh god five bads and a mad

will ranka lee ever grace 6s again with his superior tf2 skill or will he keep playing on the teek forever and complain how he hates tf2 for 4 hours every day[/quote]
nah hes just gonna keep shittalking on those alts of his
55
#55
8 Frags +
TheHandsomeManFortunately we're playing Team Fortress 2.
It's easy to look at an ex-invite player and say he's a sandbagger, but I'm sure if Mangachu decided to play in IM none of you would say he's sandbagging
As far as I'm concerned there are no sandbaggers in Open

that is not how logic works

[quote=TheHandsomeMan]Fortunately we're playing [i]Team[/i] Fortress 2.
It's easy to look at an ex-invite player and say he's a sandbagger, but I'm sure if Mangachu decided to play in IM none of you would say he's sandbagging
As far as I'm concerned there are no sandbaggers in Open[/quote]
that is not how logic works
56
#56
-4 Frags +

The definition of sandbagging I know is from the rock climbing world. It's making the difficulty of something out to be much easier than it actually is.

Sandbagger: "You got this bro, it's way easier than the last line! Like soft 5.7"
Sandbaggee: "Sweet! I've never seen a 5.7 off width overhang 20 feet before."
Sandbagger: "There are holds everywhere inside the crack. Just reach deep."
...
Sandbaggee: "My clothes are destroyed, I'm bleeding from everywhere, decked twice, and puked all over myself. You sure it's 5.7?"
Sandbagger: "Heh. Maybe it's 5.8 plus."
Sandbaggee: "Lemme see that fucking guide book."
Sandbagger: "No. You'll bleed all over it."

The definition of sandbagging I know is from the rock climbing world. It's making the difficulty of something out to be much easier than it actually is.

[b]Sandbagger[/b]: "You got this bro, it's way easier than the last line! Like soft 5.7"
Sandbaggee: "Sweet! I've never seen a 5.7 off width overhang 20 feet before."
[b]Sandbagger[/b]: "There are holds everywhere inside the crack. Just reach deep."
...
Sandbaggee: "My clothes are destroyed, I'm bleeding from everywhere, decked twice, and puked all over myself. You sure it's 5.7?"
[b]Sandbagger[/b]: "Heh. Maybe it's 5.8 plus."
Sandbaggee: "Lemme see that fucking guide book."
[b]Sandbagger[/b]: "No. You'll bleed all over it."
57
#57
3 Frags +
Foxthat is not how logic works

I wasn't trying to objectify anything

tl;dr

shrtLooks to me like everyone is playing in the appropriate division.
[quote=Fox]that is not how logic works[/quote]
I wasn't trying to objectify anything

tl;dr [quote=shrt]Looks to me like everyone is playing in the appropriate division.[/quote]
58
#58
20 Frags +

It's pretty fucked up to say that winning open isn't a major achievement. This is season 15 of ESEA. TF2s first season was season 2. For the first couple seasons ESEA didn't even have separate divisions. Only like 12 teams have ever won open, and when you consider how many teams have competed for that title I'd say that's quite an accomplishment. Is it as impressive as invite or one of the euro LANs? Of course not, but it's still an accomplishment to be proud of.

It's pretty fucked up to say that winning open isn't a major achievement. This is season 15 of ESEA. TF2s first season was season 2. For the first couple seasons ESEA didn't even have separate divisions. Only like 12 teams have ever won open, and when you consider how many teams have competed for that title I'd say that's quite an accomplishment. Is it as impressive as invite or one of the euro LANs? Of course not, but it's still an accomplishment to be proud of.
59
#59
13 Frags +
thrasherIt's pretty fucked up to say that winning open isn't a major achievement. This is season 15 of ESEA. TF2s first season was season 2. For the first couple seasons ESEA didn't even have separate divisions. Only like 12 teams have ever won open, and when you consider how many teams have competed for that title I'd say that's quite an accomplishment. Is it as impressive as invite or one of the euro LANs? Of course not, but it's still an accomplishment to be proud of.

And you get more $$$ than the winner of ETF2L prem

[quote=thrasher]It's pretty fucked up to say that winning open isn't a major achievement. This is season 15 of ESEA. TF2s first season was season 2. For the first couple seasons ESEA didn't even have separate divisions. Only like 12 teams have ever won open, and when you consider how many teams have competed for that title I'd say that's quite an accomplishment. Is it as impressive as invite or one of the euro LANs? Of course not, but it's still an accomplishment to be proud of.[/quote]

And you get more $$$ than the winner of ETF2L prem
60
#60
10 Frags +
DroidsterthrasherIt's pretty fucked up to say that winning open isn't a major achievement. This is season 15 of ESEA. TF2s first season was season 2. For the first couple seasons ESEA didn't even have separate divisions. Only like 12 teams have ever won open, and when you consider how many teams have competed for that title I'd say that's quite an accomplishment. Is it as impressive as invite or one of the euro LANs? Of course not, but it's still an accomplishment to be proud of.
And you get more $$$ than the winner of ETF2L prem

and more money than 4th place invite

[quote=Droidster][quote=thrasher]It's pretty fucked up to say that winning open isn't a major achievement. This is season 15 of ESEA. TF2s first season was season 2. For the first couple seasons ESEA didn't even have separate divisions. Only like 12 teams have ever won open, and when you consider how many teams have competed for that title I'd say that's quite an accomplishment. Is it as impressive as invite or one of the euro LANs? Of course not, but it's still an accomplishment to be proud of.[/quote]

And you get more $$$ than the winner of ETF2L prem[/quote]

and more money than 4th place invite
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