Because we already have a thread for OP weps, why not one for ones that are so shit nobody should ever use them?
List Here
I'm sure I missed some weapons or said something wrong so feel free to critique, just be sure to say expressly why you feel the way you do or this thread might go to shit like the OP one. I will change the doc accordingly. I might also put reasoning as to why each weapon is bad.
I've compiled a list of all the UP weapons
posted in
TF2 General Discussion
Because we already have a thread for OP weps, why not one for ones that are so shit nobody should ever use them?
[url=https://docs.google.com/document/d/14Mi-urL1rX-kkdlcxWPD-maAP8nVxoyllTss8ypdQxA/edit?usp=drive_web]List Here[/url]
I'm sure I missed some weapons or said something wrong so feel free to critique, just be sure to say expressly why you feel the way you do or this thread might go to shit like the OP one. I will change the doc accordingly. I might also put reasoning as to why each weapon is bad.
[url=https://docs.google.com/document/d/14Mi-urL1rX-kkdlcxWPD-maAP8nVxoyllTss8ypdQxA/edit?usp=drive_web]List Here[/url]
I'm sure I missed some weapons or said something wrong so feel free to critique, just be sure to say expressly why you feel the way you do or this thread might go to shit like the OP one. I will change the doc accordingly. I might also put reasoning as to why each weapon is bad.
I actually really like the concept of the third degree and it needs a buff
I actually really like the concept of the third degree and it needs a buff
rocketslaypost it to r/tf2
But it's not a meme or low effort shitpost
[quote=rocketslay]post it to r/tf2[/quote]
But it's not a meme or low effort shitpost
But it's not a meme or low effort shitpost
EoNI actually really like the concept of the third degree and it needs a buff
The third degree is a cool idea with bad execution. It's a straight upgrade to stock but the upgrade is just not that good.
[quote=EoN]I actually really like the concept of the third degree and it needs a buff[/quote]
The third degree is a cool idea with bad execution. It's a straight upgrade to stock but the upgrade is just not that good.
The third degree is a cool idea with bad execution. It's a straight upgrade to stock but the upgrade is just not that good.
Wrap Assasin is godlike if you don't get to build ubers.
Wrap Assasin is godlike if you don't get to build ubers.
Detonator is ok, unlike the scorch shot you don't even have to aim on the ground and the jumping ability is pretty usefull in some maps, unless we're talking about 6's only, where pyro is shit anyway. And the enforcer is slower but does the same damage as the revolver and also pierces through multiple resistances including vaccinator's, I would even consider it an upgrade to the stock but I don't know how important the fire rate is.
Detonator is ok, unlike the scorch shot you don't even have to aim on the ground and the jumping ability is pretty usefull in some maps, unless we're talking about 6's only, where pyro is shit anyway. And the enforcer is slower but does the same damage as the revolver and also pierces through multiple resistances including vaccinator's, I would even consider it an upgrade to the stock but I don't know how important the fire rate is.
shorasWrap Assasin is godlike if you don't get to build ubers.
good point. removed.
[quote=shoras]Wrap Assasin is godlike if you don't get to build ubers.[/quote]
good point. removed.
good point. removed.
Libby isn't reall UP, b/c DPS over time is greater, but initial dps is just lower than stock. Damage in a full clip is lower sure, but that just means you can use a secondary other than gunboats if you're playing roamer.
Libby isn't reall UP, b/c DPS over time is greater, but initial dps is just lower than stock. Damage in a full clip is lower sure, but that just means you can use a secondary other than gunboats if you're playing roamer.
how can dps over time possibly be higher if it has both a larger clip and less damage per clip than stock
the only things is has on stock are being able to hit closer to targets and range but that really doesnt make up for the lower dps in my experience
how can dps over time possibly be higher if it has both a larger clip and less damage per clip than stock
the only things is has on stock are being able to hit closer to targets and range but that really doesnt make up for the lower dps in my experience
the only things is has on stock are being able to hit closer to targets and range but that really doesnt make up for the lower dps in my experience
Kavhow can dps over time possibly be higher if it has both a larger clip and less damage per clip than stock
the only things is has on stock are being able to hit closer to targets and range but that really doesnt make up for the lower dps in my experience
By more damage over time, i meant that it could hit lets say, a demo, with 3 rockets (at mid range), but still have two left to maybe hit a rocket on the med, and with the stock, you literally can jump in, hit two rockets max, and jump out. Also, the secondary slot is opened up since you don't have to use gunboats anymore.
[quote=Kav]how can dps over time possibly be higher if it has both a larger clip and less damage per clip than stock
the only things is has on stock are being able to hit closer to targets and range but that really doesnt make up for the lower dps in my experience[/quote]
By more damage over time, i meant that it could hit lets say, a demo, with 3 rockets (at mid range), but still have two left to maybe hit a rocket on the med, and with the stock, you literally can jump in, hit two rockets max, and jump out. Also, the secondary slot is opened up since you don't have to use gunboats anymore.
the only things is has on stock are being able to hit closer to targets and range but that really doesnt make up for the lower dps in my experience[/quote]
By more damage over time, i meant that it could hit lets say, a demo, with 3 rockets (at mid range), but still have two left to maybe hit a rocket on the med, and with the stock, you literally can jump in, hit two rockets max, and jump out. Also, the secondary slot is opened up since you don't have to use gunboats anymore.
leviathanKavhow can dps over time possibly be higher if it has both a larger clip and less damage per clip than stock
the only things is has on stock are being able to hit closer to targets and range but that really doesnt make up for the lower dps in my experience
By more damage over time, i meant that it could hit lets say, a demo, with 3 rockets (at mid range), but still have two left to maybe hit a rocket on the med, and with the stock, you literally can jump in, hit two rockets max, and jump out. Also, the secondary slot is opened up since you don't have to use gunboats anymore.
It doesn't matter if I can kill you quicker with my stock than you can with the LL. You can't fire those rockets if you're dead.
[quote=leviathan][quote=Kav]how can dps over time possibly be higher if it has both a larger clip and less damage per clip than stock
the only things is has on stock are being able to hit closer to targets and range but that really doesnt make up for the lower dps in my experience[/quote]
By more damage over time, i meant that it could hit lets say, a demo, with 3 rockets (at mid range), but still have two left to maybe hit a rocket on the med, and with the stock, you literally can jump in, hit two rockets max, and jump out. Also, the secondary slot is opened up since you don't have to use gunboats anymore.[/quote]
It doesn't matter if I can kill you quicker with my stock than you can with the LL. You can't fire those rockets if you're dead.
the only things is has on stock are being able to hit closer to targets and range but that really doesnt make up for the lower dps in my experience[/quote]
By more damage over time, i meant that it could hit lets say, a demo, with 3 rockets (at mid range), but still have two left to maybe hit a rocket on the med, and with the stock, you literally can jump in, hit two rockets max, and jump out. Also, the secondary slot is opened up since you don't have to use gunboats anymore.[/quote]
It doesn't matter if I can kill you quicker with my stock than you can with the LL. You can't fire those rockets if you're dead.
but robtheawsm said liberty launcher is a direct upgrade :(
but robtheawsm said liberty launcher is [url=https://youtu.be/ZbPXX6IpGRY?t=17m49s]a direct upgrade[/url] :(
TsarbucksleviathanKavhow can dps over time possibly be higher if it has both a larger clip and less damage per clip than stock
the only things is has on stock are being able to hit closer to targets and range but that really doesnt make up for the lower dps in my experience
By more damage over time, i meant that it could hit lets say, a demo, with 3 rockets (at mid range), but still have two left to maybe hit a rocket on the med, and with the stock, you literally can jump in, hit two rockets max, and jump out. Also, the secondary slot is opened up since you don't have to use gunboats anymore.
It doesn't matter if I can kill you quicker with my stock than you can with the LL. You can't fire those rockets if you're dead.
if you shoot a rocket prior to two-shotting a med, you have two rockets left to either a: possibly finish off or deal sufficient dmg before dying or b: jump, and shoot a rocket as you are jumping away.
Also, like I said before, the 50% rj resistance in total opens up a NEW slot instead of gunboats.
[quote=Tsarbucks][quote=leviathan][quote=Kav]how can dps over time possibly be higher if it has both a larger clip and less damage per clip than stock
the only things is has on stock are being able to hit closer to targets and range but that really doesnt make up for the lower dps in my experience[/quote]
By more damage over time, i meant that it could hit lets say, a demo, with 3 rockets (at mid range), but still have two left to maybe hit a rocket on the med, and with the stock, you literally can jump in, hit two rockets max, and jump out. Also, the secondary slot is opened up since you don't have to use gunboats anymore.[/quote]
It doesn't matter if I can kill you quicker with my stock than you can with the LL. You can't fire those rockets if you're dead.[/quote]
if you shoot a rocket prior to two-shotting a med, you have two rockets left to either a: possibly finish off or deal sufficient dmg before dying or b: jump, and shoot a rocket as you are jumping away.
Also, like I said before, the 50% rj resistance in total opens up a NEW slot instead of gunboats.
the only things is has on stock are being able to hit closer to targets and range but that really doesnt make up for the lower dps in my experience[/quote]
By more damage over time, i meant that it could hit lets say, a demo, with 3 rockets (at mid range), but still have two left to maybe hit a rocket on the med, and with the stock, you literally can jump in, hit two rockets max, and jump out. Also, the secondary slot is opened up since you don't have to use gunboats anymore.[/quote]
It doesn't matter if I can kill you quicker with my stock than you can with the LL. You can't fire those rockets if you're dead.[/quote]
if you shoot a rocket prior to two-shotting a med, you have two rockets left to either a: possibly finish off or deal sufficient dmg before dying or b: jump, and shoot a rocket as you are jumping away.
Also, like I said before, the 50% rj resistance in total opens up a NEW slot instead of gunboats.
well the rocket jumper gives you 100% rj resistance
but that doesnt really matter when you deal no damage with it
well the rocket jumper gives you 100% rj resistance
but that doesnt really matter when you deal no damage with it
but that doesnt really matter when you deal no damage with it
leviathanAlso, like I said before, the 50% rj resistance in total opens up a NEW slot instead of gunboats.
self damage isnt reduced by the base 25% damage reduction, so it only has the 25% self damage reduction it has listed, not 50%.
[quote=leviathan]Also, like I said before, the 50% rj resistance in total opens up a NEW slot instead of gunboats.[/quote]
self damage isnt reduced by the base 25% damage reduction, so it only has the 25% self damage reduction it has listed, not 50%.
self damage isnt reduced by the base 25% damage reduction, so it only has the 25% self damage reduction it has listed, not 50%.
leviathanKavhow can dps over time possibly be higher if it has both a larger clip and less damage per clip than stock
the only things is has on stock are being able to hit closer to targets and range but that really doesnt make up for the lower dps in my experience
By more damage over time, i meant that it could hit lets say, a demo, with 3 rockets (at mid range), but still have two left to maybe hit a rocket on the med, and with the stock, you literally can jump in, hit two rockets max, and jump out. Also, the secondary slot is opened up since you don't have to use gunboats anymore.
that will amount to 60-80 with how much damage the ll does. you could do more than that super easily with stock in just two rockets and actually be able to kill him or something. the self blast damage reduction is honestly useless as you won't be able to clean up anything you do with your ll or charge a conch with the pitiful damage output or anything really. the damage it does honestly just makes it completely inferior.
pretty underpowered I think.
[quote=leviathan][quote=Kav]how can dps over time possibly be higher if it has both a larger clip and less damage per clip than stock
the only things is has on stock are being able to hit closer to targets and range but that really doesnt make up for the lower dps in my experience[/quote]
By more damage over time, i meant that it could hit lets say, a demo, with 3 rockets (at mid range), but still have two left to maybe hit a rocket on the med, and with the stock, you literally can jump in, hit two rockets max, and jump out. Also, the secondary slot is opened up since you don't have to use gunboats anymore.[/quote]
that will amount to 60-80 with how much damage the ll does. you could do more than that super easily with stock in just two rockets and actually be able to kill him or something. the self blast damage reduction is honestly useless as you won't be able to clean up anything you do with your ll or charge a conch with the pitiful damage output or anything really. the damage it does honestly just makes it completely inferior.
pretty underpowered I think.
the only things is has on stock are being able to hit closer to targets and range but that really doesnt make up for the lower dps in my experience[/quote]
By more damage over time, i meant that it could hit lets say, a demo, with 3 rockets (at mid range), but still have two left to maybe hit a rocket on the med, and with the stock, you literally can jump in, hit two rockets max, and jump out. Also, the secondary slot is opened up since you don't have to use gunboats anymore.[/quote]
that will amount to 60-80 with how much damage the ll does. you could do more than that super easily with stock in just two rockets and actually be able to kill him or something. the self blast damage reduction is honestly useless as you won't be able to clean up anything you do with your ll or charge a conch with the pitiful damage output or anything really. the damage it does honestly just makes it completely inferior.
pretty underpowered I think.
EoNI actually really like the concept of the third degree and it needs a buff
my old idea for the 3rd degree was making it hit all targets you've set on fire at that point, instead of the ones connected by medic beams. It would make it relevant in more situations than just medics. So you'd walk into a bunch of people honking that horn and if they'd let you live for long enough to get an axe swing, you could do 65 to all of them at once - or do some cooky stuff with the detonator or scorch shot.
[quote=EoN]I actually really like the concept of the third degree and it needs a buff[/quote]
my old idea for the 3rd degree was making it hit all targets you've set on fire at that point, instead of the ones connected by medic beams. It would make it relevant in more situations than just medics. So you'd walk into a bunch of people honking that horn and if they'd let you live for long enough to get an axe swing, you could do 65 to all of them at once - or do some cooky stuff with the detonator or scorch shot.
my old idea for the 3rd degree was making it hit all targets you've set on fire at that point, instead of the ones connected by medic beams. It would make it relevant in more situations than just medics. So you'd walk into a bunch of people honking that horn and if they'd let you live for long enough to get an axe swing, you could do 65 to all of them at once - or do some cooky stuff with the detonator or scorch shot.
FUNKebut robtheawsm said liberty launcher is a direct upgrade :(
He also said the FaN was better than the scattergun
[quote=FUNKe]but robtheawsm said liberty launcher is [url=https://youtu.be/ZbPXX6IpGRY?t=17m49s]a direct upgrade[/url] :([/quote]
He also said the FaN was better than the scattergun
He also said the FaN was better than the scattergun
EoNyou could do 65 to all of them at once - or do some cooky stuff with the detonator or scorch shot.
As much as I want to play with this weapon, inexplicably taking 130 because you got scorch shotted and your gibus heavy teammate doesnt know what is going on sounds like the one way to make pyro worse.
This is probably the worst case, and it could be rebalanced to only affect teammates near the melee target etc, but taking damage because your teammate took damage seems to be an inherently flawed mechanic in pub play. Could be less atrocious in organized play though.
[quote=EoN]you could do 65 to all of them at once - or do some cooky stuff with the detonator or scorch shot.[/quote]
As much as I want to play with this weapon, inexplicably taking 130 because you got scorch shotted and your gibus heavy teammate doesnt know what is going on sounds like the one way to make pyro worse.
This is probably the worst case, and it could be rebalanced to only affect teammates near the melee target etc, but taking damage because your teammate took damage seems to be an inherently flawed mechanic in pub play. Could be less atrocious in organized play though.
As much as I want to play with this weapon, inexplicably taking 130 because you got scorch shotted and your gibus heavy teammate doesnt know what is going on sounds like the one way to make pyro worse.
This is probably the worst case, and it could be rebalanced to only affect teammates near the melee target etc, but taking damage because your teammate took damage seems to be an inherently flawed mechanic in pub play. Could be less atrocious in organized play though.
That pyro idea could be really easily abused by trolls
That pyro idea could be really easily abused by trolls
not sure if I agree with the detonator being on this list, it doesn't really need a buff except maybe less self damage to encourage more detonator jumps.
not sure if I agree with the detonator being on this list, it doesn't really need a buff except maybe less self damage to encourage more detonator jumps.
A lot of pyro weapons are perfectly fine but just held back by being pyro weapons, and would be more than viable if the class as a whole was stronger. He relies on his secondary for damage so much that using det or scorch gimp the class even though the weps have plenty of utility. He has a lot of interesting melee weapons too but the powerjacks movespeed is so vital that the rest might as well not exist.
i think that if pyro was buffed and had better skill indexing then a lot more of his tools would be viable with hardly any changes.
well except the volcano frag but that was designed for medieval mode anyway so who cares
A lot of pyro weapons are perfectly fine but just held back by being pyro weapons, and would be more than viable if the class as a whole was stronger. He relies on his secondary for damage so much that using det or scorch gimp the class even though the weps have plenty of utility. He has a lot of interesting melee weapons too but the powerjacks movespeed is so vital that the rest might as well not exist.
i think that if pyro was buffed and had better skill indexing then a lot more of his tools would be viable with hardly any changes.
well except the volcano frag but that was designed for medieval mode anyway so who cares
i think that if pyro was buffed and had better skill indexing then a lot more of his tools would be viable with hardly any changes.
well except the volcano frag but that was designed for medieval mode anyway so who cares
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