http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujr8dQJgQUU

the future

Implying that soldiers have to even aim to outdamage a demo atm? Lol.

when the email from valve rolls on in giving me a job as community weapon balance czar yall bitches will all be sorry

http://sizzlingstats.com/stats/235288
http://sizzlingstats.com/stats/235336
http://sizzlingstats.com/stats/235368

neither demo ran normal stickies

dingo was on cannonballs/targe the entire time

this game is amazing without stickies

except when plat puts up 6 fucking sr traps but were working on that

also lol @ random europeans talking to plat about aim while saying implying

go watch soccer or something you fucking clowns

You dont have to insult people to prove a point

your name is E-thug stfu idiot

thank you for your contribution to this conversation random european

at least my post actually talks about the fucking topic rather than getting upset over somebody's tone

i still dont understand why youd defend somebody whos ONLY post is "lol implying soldier is hard"

i hope its some kind of nationalism/eu v na thing because otherwise youre just being hypersensitive to something completely irrelevant

Why are you so vile towards Europeans?

Your contributions to this thread have been as relevant as the demo is currently.

Not only that but your only way to prove a point is using Ad hominem and personal insults. To be honest I don't know how you're not banned already.

if thats all you got out of my post you need to go play in traffic because youre going out of your way to get upset over something that was so far from the actual point

idk kaneco we get that youre in mourning over your favorite class but doesnt mean you need to hop in any time you see somebody arguing with me just to go "ya mason was mean to me too"

you still have no idea what the fuck youre talking about, somehow even less so than mustard

but to actually respond to your post,

where are your logs and demos of you trying new demo loadouts and testing the viability of them against the top teams in eu?

where is your empirical evidence that the class is "irrelevant" without tactical nuke -130 damage stickybombs?

are you doing anything besides crying that demo is doomed and theorycrafting how nothing could ever have the same effect that stickies did?

what if you actually played the fucking game and tried new shit instead of just losing your minds a change and throwing a fucking fit until big daddy valve changes it back?

sorry for partying

All i pointed out was that your discussion tehcniques are not that efficient, especially considering this is a discussion thread. Adding insult only makes your point flaccid. Also do note i didnt defend anyone.

There is little to be said about this whole thing anymore because most of whats worth saying has been said. Its just a matter of getting out your unlocks and test whatever works for you and your team. So far i've seen the loose cannon being quite effective but not that much of scottish resistance because its banned here in europe.

http://logs.tf/326876
http://logs.tf/326918

This game is shit without proper stickies.

Also lol @ random Americans thinking that 300 dpm is impressive

Go watch American football or something

This is how stupid that post was

nice div4 david lets post more logs of games that arent even close and then use them as evidence

touchdown europe!!!

also i think somebody hit 400 ddm without stickies in one of the logs so theres that

I also haven't played in 4 months. Your point?
And 5-2 5-0 2-5 logs are close?

this thread is stupid now

thanks for the update e-thug

this update was stupid

Yo, the Classic is fun as shit, you take that back.
Part of this update was dumb.

I would like to point out that a lot of the reason that Europeans have it harder here is that they don't have the targe or SR and have to use stock.

They would like to experiment with unlocks, but they'd rather do well this season and figure out how to work with stickies.

http://www.corbisimages.com/images/Corbis-AX030337.jpg?size=67&uid=ba6d9bfe-cd35-4ae4-bb9c-fe7b0abbff03

to me at least the change isn't really about the fact that demo's can't do damage now, it's that the game has become less fun. before demo could play aggressive during stalemates which was fun for the demo and fun if you didn't die like an idiot for the otherside, now the demo can be aggressive with the charge and just never fucking die and there isn't much more frustrating than feeling like you're doing well and doing like 40 damage and that applies to both the new stickies and vs targe with rockets & pipes.

The game has become much more flat as demo just seems to be about spamming pills or using the loose cannon to do more damage easier. the change to stickies itself is kind of lame, it places the sticky launcher into a similar position as the scottish resistance, a seemingly purely defensive sticky launcher, which seems silly because now two weapons inhabit the same role in the game. as a demoman now, you get facerolled if you try to play aggressive without someone babysitting you, who might as well be doing it instead, because you're primary weapon doesn't do enough damage to ward off people from holding w into you, let alone kill them.

the alternates for the sticky launcher are even worse to be in the game as they are even more boring to play against or more boring to play with. the scot res is actually the most boring thing in the game, put down a carpet of sticks and spam pills...yay demoman, you're class is now even more boring than with default! the targe is probably more fun than the other alternatives for the demoman but unless you're a scout that can just strafe out of the charge, it doesn't really feel like there is anything you can do to stop a charge which is especially true with the new tide turner crap, which is silly imo. overall the vanilla targe is the worst of the bunch because the game just doesn't feel rewarding as a soldier or demoman when fighting a targe demo.

the change hinders the offensive part of demoman and more or less leaves the defensive part alone, as demo you can still pill spam, sticky carpet, sticky trap, layer sticks into chokes by shooting them up into the air. meanwhile, demoman can't kill heavies or sentries (let alone wrangled ones) basically raping hl in the ass, and even if you don't like hl, places like gully and snake last are gonna be unbearable once people start running heavies & and engies or maybe even just heavies. the problem isn't that demoman was nerfed, it's that it was done in a fashion that made the game more boring overall imo

Well, I don't want to try the fucking unlocks, they are retarded, I bought tf2 and want to keep playing tf2 not some shit where you can't fucking attack anything because the team on defense has a huge advantage.

For someone who keeps accusing people of being upset, you sound pretty upset.

shit man format that crap

Jesus dude, I doubt even you have the patience to read that back.

My honest thoughts are like this:

Last night I played about 5 or 6 scrims with mgib and co. and I played with a different team for 2 or 3 scrims last week after the update dropped. The old sticky launcher is still viable, but it's in a weird place. I'd catch myself in games feeling like, "Man I should be pushing 350 to 400 dpm this game" and I'd check stats and I'd be hovering around 250. Not to say lowering my overall damage wasn't expected, but just for posterity I thought I'd include it.

Now, I think SR is a pretty good option in some cases, especially badlands (last). I think it's not impossible to defend last with JUST demo sticks, since you can sack point and not even contest the demo while he shoots you from up top and know that he can't kill any class before they're able to cap. It is what it is.

Scouts got a pretty unintentional buff with this sticky nerf. I can now mid range sticky a scout 3x and not get a kill, while he peppers at me at a range that he should be able to dodge any pill just in case I switch weapons. While playing with mgib's team, I'd notice I was having the most success when I'd play with one of my scouts, just having a bit of extra damage to overload one player if they rushed our scout, or if they rushed me. It's almost like what the roamer used to do in the previous meta.

I don't think demo is suddenly "nonviable" now, and I do attribute some of it to us having to get used to the class. However, I think that the class the way it is right now (including with SR) has become a more artillery-esque support class. I've tried quite a few playstyles out and I find myself second-guessing myself very often because I can't put myself in a position to make a "big play" with a punish now, because my individual damage just ISN'T THERE. I think the class has become more of a passive, less risky class.

Just my take on it, since I've played wayyy too much demo in my life.

i mean the losing demo man had way more damage than the winning one meaning the aggressor's demo should switch to something that takes more damage from the enemy demo? is that what you're saying? all these logs say is that when one team is at a severe skill deficit the demo on the losing team has ample opportunity. ROFL.

Anyway, I think a sentry Nerf is inevitable. I don't think valve realizes how many sentry nests were taken down only because the best player in the pub could play demo.

Its honestly kind of weird they didn't include one in this patch.

Remove/nerf the wrangler into uselessness. Nerf gunslinger too.

But when's the last time Valve did anything with the engineer that wasn't a retarded buff?

what if we trick the pubbers into complaining about all the classes that didn't get nerfed so that those classes get nerfed and then everything in the 6s meta is nerfed and if those classes are nerfed proportionally to how the demo was everything ends up being back where we started kinda.

or they could just *fix demo