Except we all know how good the hitboxes are...
Balloon race anyone?

Another day another scrim.
It's badlands and we're playing froyotech. Definitely not our best map, but we're working on it. Both teams ready up and I get ready to do the rollout, the combination
of sticky jumps that most demos below high open aren't even capable of doing. I'll admit I'm no miracle worker but I can hit the jumps at least somewhat consistently. However I am going up against b4nny, the championed Jesus of the competitive community, so I must admit I'm a little worried about this midfight.

Nick "The Fragile :3" Leon gives me a Gerard, a certified 85 extra health points and I place the first sticky at my feet. I crouch, detonate, and then I'm at the spawn door. Another sticky on the wall and I'm in the main doorway with 180. Two more stickies and I'm landing on diagonal with 47. I pick up the health pack in house as the game clock switches from 9:47 to 9:46, a near perfect rollout.

Of course, this is where the real challenge begins. b4nny could be house, balcony, choke, hell maybe he messed up his own rollout and is in valley? I don't see him in the house door, and the chances of him fucking up his rollout or going choke are slim, so I predict and aim my sticky at the balcony window that I can't actually even see (our train is in the way). Keeping in mind the arc of my sticky and how long I've been charging my sticky (about 3 seconds) I release my left mouse button and the bomb slides through the air into their window. All the while I'm strafing and positiong myself in a position as to not get hit by his sticky.

I can't believe it. I hit him, and he didn't hit me. What a great start to this middle.
b4nny walks off a balcony into the valley. Shade looks in his general direction and holds left click for 0.7916 seconds. My damage has been reverted.

I guess with this update the new strategy is do a pyyyour mid and just close my eyes and spam 8 stickies wherever the fuck I please and hope someone walks over them later. Or maybe I should run
Chargin' "400 hp pipe spammer" Targe. Perhaps the Scottish "I'm down, scout has 185" Resistance is the answer. [alternatively Scottish "I can't rollout with this shit" Resistance]

Enemy demo goes targe->my stickies now do 11-25 damage->I have to go targe
And for anyone that thinks the targe is healthy for competition or fun to play against, you are clueless. Replacing one of the most versatile and skill based weapons in the game with passive damage resistance is sydney sleeper/reserve shooter/vitasaw tier of game ruining.

Truthfully there hasn't been enough time to fully understand the update, but I just don't see it being good for the game, especially with 9 days until lan.

If anything I would be in favor of a promod being used for LAN simply for continuity's sake - it's kinda silly to have an entire season played with 1 set of conditions and then an entirely new set being thrown for a championship.

Any major esport wouldn't have to worry about its pinnacle LAN being altered by an update :(.

It's just growing pains right now. That's an excellent attitude, you should check out the etf2l forums. They've thrown all their toys out of the cot.

Since we're discussing how the sticky nerf changes demo positioning to be less favourable to taking 1v1s, why haven't we talked about how the nerf allows other classes to be more aggressive (or i guess stupider in some cases)

solly's using the parachute might arguably be harder to hit since they can un-redeploy the parachute over and over

I dont know what gave anyone here indication that Valve ever cared about TF2 competitive. Thats what they have CS and Dota for.

I was in a pub today as demo and I hit a medic for 8 with a sticky
vacinator is a powerful weapon

Except this happens every couple weeks in League of Legends, the biggest esport in the world.

All the pros there adjust to changes all the time. Their favorite champions being nerfed into the ground, item changes completely switching up builds or changing how they have to play the game. And they adapt. Instead of just whining for days.

Actually they never adopt an update for LAN use until 3(2?) weeks after the update comes out for League.

I was fooling around in a pub today and there was a spy coming directly at me with his knife out, I fired 3 stickies and hit him for around 30 each time, did more self damage than actual damage despite the stickies being closer to him than me. He butter-knifed me, this is depressing... ;_;

I agree 100%.

Pretty hard to compare tf2 with league

An email to the TF team.
http://pastebin.com/PJj6KwAN

Lets stop skirting around the real issue here: The Classic NEEDS a headshot bonus buff in some way. Demo/Schmemo, poor sniper just got teased into oblivion...

Can we also talk about the Back Scatter 143 damage instant from behind. I'm not fully sure of the consequences of this but it seems like a 1 shot to scouts with a small buff.

no that hasnt happened yet at all
what i mean is nobody is actually changing sticks in any competitive league

its pretty mediocre, id honestly place it at as a bad sidegrade after playing with it for an hour in dm
the minicrit is great but consistently getting a full 143 damage shot is both really hard and requires baiting/hiding to do.

You should write erotic novels.

- Added tftrue_sticky_fulldamage which removes the 2 second delay before getting a full damage sticky if enabled

update to TFTrue

Yeah but that got denied by the ETF2L admins. Even Anak was unsure of putting it in, initially.

Mustard the reason why I like this change is because it breathes new life into a somewhat stagnant game. New strategies, play styles, things to worry about and things to figure out are much more fun to me than putting in 80 hours a week to perfect some spam angles that instagib an over buffed scout.

Quick-Fix was perfectly fine from a spectator POV until heavy started getting abused.

i am sure this is going to change hearts and minds:

That might work in a moba style game, the periodic balance patches that is, and I must say that it actually does wonders for the dota metagame at least, which I am somewhat on par with. But I don't think FPS's benefit from this at all, especially a team based fps like tf2.

Look at CS balance patches for example, most of it are real bugfixes or broken/underpowered weapons like the AUG changes, or the slight deagle buff a few months ago, even new weapons are very closely worked on, not just dumped into the game and expected to fit the meta. If you changed a core attribute of the AWP for example, all hell would break loose.

As much success as they have in the esports world, I think we shouldn't look up to moba's as a guideline for us.

they said in dev commentary demo is supposed to be versatile and switch between offense and defense. so they nerfed just the offensive side of demo???

Did valve just raise the skill ceiling

it's more of making demo worse than soldier, and you can be at least 5% better than a soldier if you land slow-moving, arcing projectiles perfectly ontop of everyone you ever meet and you have no room for error ever

or you can just sit back and put a trap somewhere to fully embrace the only redeemable quality about demo now.

or you can play demoknight have fun

Or you can just hit some fucking pills. My gosh.

http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/67/Grenade_Launcher.png/250px-Grenade_Launcher.png

This is the primary weapon of the Demoman class. You should be comparing this weapon to the Rocket launcher, not the secondary weapon called sticky launcher.