yo the cevo season is over and esea is winding down. The game seems the same looking at the top, but at the bottom it feels different, a season or two ago finding a scrim in irc used to be pretty damn easy, but now its pretty rough, esp for open when half is looking for one map and the other half is looking for another one. It makes the competitive scene feel too small to thrive or even be competitive. As much as competition is praised, i dont think that tf2 is big enough to support two leagues.
ESEA Vs CEVO
posted in
TF2 General Discussion
yo the cevo season is over and esea is winding down. The game seems the same looking at the top, but at the bottom it feels different, a season or two ago finding a scrim in irc used to be pretty damn easy, but now its pretty rough, esp for open when half is looking for one map and the other half is looking for another one. It makes the competitive scene feel too small to thrive or even be competitive. As much as competition is praised, i dont think that tf2 is big enough to support two leagues.
I haven't been having any problems finding scrims on irc, when are you looking?
I haven't been having any problems finding scrims on irc, when are you looking?
so the thing about the awkward transition season that we're ending soon is that the community is split. its pretty obvious as you said. it makes the game feel smaller. its pretty shitty.
but next season, I think one league will die and another will thrive. and that all depends on how well cevo fixes their BS. currently, I think esea is the superior league due to the incredible scheduling & client. but if cevo fixes their backwards ass scheduling and makes their client actually prevent people from letting non-rostered players play in their games, it could be the premier league in no time. especially if they put together a real lan, I would see no reason to stick with esea.
once people are back on one league again, things will return to normal.
so the thing about the awkward transition season that we're ending soon is that the community is split. its pretty obvious as you said. it makes the game feel smaller. its pretty shitty.
but next season, I think one league will die and another will thrive. and that all depends on how well cevo fixes their BS. currently, I think esea is the superior league due to the incredible scheduling & client. but if cevo fixes their backwards ass scheduling and makes their client actually prevent people from letting non-rostered players play in their games, it could be the premier league in no time. especially if they put together a real lan, I would see no reason to stick with esea.
once people are back on one league again, things will return to normal.
but next season, I think one league will die and another will thrive. and that all depends on how well cevo fixes their BS. currently, I think esea is the superior league due to the incredible scheduling & client. but if cevo fixes their backwards ass scheduling and makes their client actually prevent people from letting non-rostered players play in their games, it could be the premier league in no time. especially if they put together a real lan, I would see no reason to stick with esea.
once people are back on one league again, things will return to normal.
SleepingLifeI haven't been having any problems finding scrims on irc, when are you looking?
you dont have problems finding scrims because you're playing low-
[quote=SleepingLife]I haven't been having any problems finding scrims on irc, when are you looking?[/quote]
you dont have problems finding scrims because you're playing low-
you dont have problems finding scrims because you're playing low-
well now cevo has its foot in the door in terms of things like season structure, having a prize pot, having enough teams to play a decent season with, etc
idk we played cevo this season and haven't had a problem getting scrims since there were plenty of cevo teams to scrim against.
that however hasn't been my concern, my concern is that unless esea goes back to the 4 div system cevo won't be at the same level of competition per div. CEVO main next season is basically going to be the equivalent of esea mid IM - high open while the professional div will have an even greater polarity of Invite and Main-IM teams mixed in especially since 3 of the cevo open teams move to professional.
maybe the community can survive with two leagues, if maybe esea and cevo recognize teams from the other league and allow them to transfer into an appropriate div instead of being force to play open
sorry for rambling
well now cevo has its foot in the door in terms of things like season structure, having a prize pot, having enough teams to play a decent season with, etc
idk we played cevo this season and haven't had a problem getting scrims since there were plenty of cevo teams to scrim against.
that however hasn't been my concern, my concern is that unless esea goes back to the 4 div system cevo won't be at the same level of competition per div. CEVO main next season is basically going to be the equivalent of esea mid IM - high open while the professional div will have an even greater polarity of Invite and Main-IM teams mixed in especially since 3 of the cevo open teams move to professional.
maybe the community can survive with two leagues, if maybe esea and cevo recognize teams from the other league and allow them to transfer into an appropriate div instead of being force to play open
sorry for rambling
idk we played cevo this season and haven't had a problem getting scrims since there were plenty of cevo teams to scrim against.
that however hasn't been my concern, my concern is that unless esea goes back to the 4 div system cevo won't be at the same level of competition per div. CEVO main next season is basically going to be the equivalent of esea mid IM - high open while the professional div will have an even greater polarity of Invite and Main-IM teams mixed in especially since 3 of the cevo open teams move to professional.
maybe the community can survive with two leagues, if maybe esea and cevo recognize teams from the other league and allow them to transfer into an appropriate div instead of being force to play open
sorry for rambling
AloSec I think esea is the superior league due to the incredible scheduling & client.
It's too far to call esea's scheduling or client "incredible." Their system is very rigid when it comes to rescheduling. I have 2 problems in particular. One, you can't reschedule after the match time without getting a hold of an admin. Two, if you don't start within 30 minutes the server shuts down and you have to contact an admin. I would like it if esea gave their teams more autonomy here. The admins don't do much except for rubber stamping so why not just let the teams reschedule as they please? In general make scheduling more laissez faire
[quote=AloSec] I think esea is the superior league due to the incredible scheduling & client.[/quote]
It's too far to call esea's scheduling or client "incredible." Their system is very rigid when it comes to rescheduling. I have 2 problems in particular. One, you can't reschedule after the match time without getting a hold of an admin. Two, if you don't start within 30 minutes the server shuts down and you have to contact an admin. I would like it if esea gave their teams more autonomy here. The admins don't do much except for rubber stamping so why not just let the teams reschedule as they please? In general make scheduling more laissez faire
It's too far to call esea's scheduling or client "incredible." Their system is very rigid when it comes to rescheduling. I have 2 problems in particular. One, you can't reschedule after the match time without getting a hold of an admin. Two, if you don't start within 30 minutes the server shuts down and you have to contact an admin. I would like it if esea gave their teams more autonomy here. The admins don't do much except for rubber stamping so why not just let the teams reschedule as they please? In general make scheduling more laissez faire
kaceAloSec I think esea is the superior league due to the incredible scheduling & client.
It's too far to call esea's scheduling or client "incredible." Their system is very rigid when it comes to rescheduling. I have 2 problems in particular. One, you can't reschedule after the match time without getting a hold of an admin. Two, if you don't start within 30 minutes the server shuts down and you have to contact an admin. I would like it if esea gave their teams more autonomy here. The admins don't do much except for rubber stamping so why not just let the teams reschedule as they please? In general make scheduling more laissez faire
Hey,
If you look at the bottom of your scheduling page, there's a button that says "Reschedule the match". If you click that, another drop down will appear that allows you to offer a new time.
[quote=kace][quote=AloSec] I think esea is the superior league due to the incredible scheduling & client.[/quote]
It's too far to call esea's scheduling or client "incredible." Their system is very rigid when it comes to rescheduling. I have 2 problems in particular. One, you can't reschedule after the match time without getting a hold of an admin. Two, if you don't start within 30 minutes the server shuts down and you have to contact an admin. I would like it if esea gave their teams more autonomy here. The admins don't do much except for rubber stamping so why not just let the teams reschedule as they please? In general make scheduling more laissez faire[/quote]
Hey,
If you look at the bottom of your scheduling page, there's a button that says "Reschedule the match". If you click that, another drop down will appear that allows you to offer a new time.
It's too far to call esea's scheduling or client "incredible." Their system is very rigid when it comes to rescheduling. I have 2 problems in particular. One, you can't reschedule after the match time without getting a hold of an admin. Two, if you don't start within 30 minutes the server shuts down and you have to contact an admin. I would like it if esea gave their teams more autonomy here. The admins don't do much except for rubber stamping so why not just let the teams reschedule as they please? In general make scheduling more laissez faire[/quote]
Hey,
If you look at the bottom of your scheduling page, there's a button that says "Reschedule the match". If you click that, another drop down will appear that allows you to offer a new time.
for the past few weeks our team has only been able to scrim basically one team that isn't the one we are playing against
the team we play that week plays the only other available team so you can see how exciting that is
I don't think having two leagues would be a big deal at all if the map lists per week were synced. Lange did say that he reached out to ESEA in order to accomplish this and was stonewalled, so I don't know what to say beyond that.
for the past few weeks our team has only been able to scrim basically one team that isn't the one we are playing against
the team we play that week plays the only other available team so you can see how exciting that is
I don't think having two leagues would be a big deal at all if the map lists per week were synced. Lange did say that he reached out to ESEA in order to accomplish this and was stonewalled, so I don't know what to say beyond that.
the team we play that week plays the only other available team so you can see how exciting that is
I don't think having two leagues would be a big deal at all if the map lists per week were synced. Lange did say that he reached out to ESEA in order to accomplish this and was stonewalled, so I don't know what to say beyond that.
Finding a good scrim on IRC for any IM+ team is basically impossible now. If you don't schedule scrims, you don't scrim. This isnt necessarily a bad thing, but it hasn't always been like this.
Finding a good scrim on[i][/i] IRC for any IM+ team is basically impossible now. If you don't schedule scrims, you don't scrim. This isnt necessarily a bad thing, but it hasn't always been like this.
I haven't been playing on a team this season but is there any particular reason that teams aren't using IRC anymore to find scrims? Was #tf2scrim one of the channels that changed networks? Because that seems like that's part of what's killing a lot of the other tf2 irc channels lately.
I haven't been playing on a team this season but is there any particular reason that teams aren't using IRC anymore to find scrims? Was #tf2scrim one of the channels that changed networks? Because that seems like that's part of what's killing a lot of the other tf2 irc channels lately.
I think a big part of the difficulty of finding scrims comes from map rotations that aren't synced. Hopefully we can do something about this.
I think a big part of the difficulty of finding scrims comes from map rotations that aren't synced. Hopefully we can do something about this.
Or this might be a crazy idea, why not learn to scrim two maps during the week. It isn't that hard to say, he lets play this map one time and then lets play the other map. I don't understand why this is such a hard thing to do with tf2 scrims.
Or this might be a crazy idea, why not learn to scrim two maps during the week. It isn't that hard to say, he lets play this map one time and then lets play the other map. I don't understand why this is such a hard thing to do with tf2 scrims.
MR_SLINI think a big part of the difficulty of finding scrims comes from map rotations that aren't synced. Hopefully we can do something about this.
I agree that the discordant map rotations create an artifical roadblock that can make finding scrims a hassle for many teams, my team included. This season, we reached out to ESEA well in advance to try and coordinate our map lists and they did not seem interested in doing so. Hopefully we can reach an agreement this season for the benefit of those who choose to play in both leagues, which is a substantial amount of people.
I spoke with CEVO|Pipher about this today and we came up with this rough plan to enact once the next season gets a bit closer:
First, we will reach out to ESEA and see if they are willing to try and coordinate map rotations. This is more difficult than it sounds because of differences in scheduling methodologies and different start times for our seasons. That said, I'm sure with enough coordination we can make it happen.
Then, if the discussions break down and an agreement cannot be reached, we will do one of the following:
- If ESEA starts their season before us, we will make the necessary adjustments so that our overlapping weeks have the same maps.
- If CEVO starts our season first, we will announce our rotation with plenty of advance notice so that ESEA will have the ability to mirror us if they choose to do so.
We take this issue seriously and fully sympathize with the frustration that it has been causing players, and will do our best to make it better going forward.
Thanks,
CEVO|Lange
[quote=MR_SLIN]I think a big part of the difficulty of finding scrims comes from map rotations that aren't synced. Hopefully we can do something about this.[/quote]
I agree that the discordant map rotations create an artifical roadblock that can make finding scrims a hassle for many teams, my team included. This season, we reached out to ESEA well in advance to try and coordinate our map lists and they did not seem interested in doing so. Hopefully we can reach an agreement this season for the benefit of those who choose to play in both leagues, which is a substantial amount of people.
I spoke with CEVO|Pipher about this today and we came up with this rough plan to enact once the next season gets a bit closer:
First, we will reach out to ESEA and see if they are willing to try and coordinate map rotations. This is more difficult than it sounds because of differences in scheduling methodologies and different start times for our seasons. That said, I'm sure with enough coordination we can make it happen.
Then, if the discussions break down and an agreement cannot be reached, we will do one of the following:
[olist]
[*] If ESEA starts their season before us, we will make the necessary adjustments so that our overlapping weeks have the same maps.
[*] If CEVO starts our season first, we will announce our rotation with plenty of advance notice so that ESEA will have the ability to mirror us if they choose to do so.
[/olist]
We take this issue seriously and fully sympathize with the frustration that it has been causing players, and will do our best to make it better going forward.
Thanks,
CEVO|Lange
I agree that the discordant map rotations create an artifical roadblock that can make finding scrims a hassle for many teams, my team included. This season, we reached out to ESEA well in advance to try and coordinate our map lists and they did not seem interested in doing so. Hopefully we can reach an agreement this season for the benefit of those who choose to play in both leagues, which is a substantial amount of people.
I spoke with CEVO|Pipher about this today and we came up with this rough plan to enact once the next season gets a bit closer:
First, we will reach out to ESEA and see if they are willing to try and coordinate map rotations. This is more difficult than it sounds because of differences in scheduling methodologies and different start times for our seasons. That said, I'm sure with enough coordination we can make it happen.
Then, if the discussions break down and an agreement cannot be reached, we will do one of the following:
[olist]
[*] If ESEA starts their season before us, we will make the necessary adjustments so that our overlapping weeks have the same maps.
[*] If CEVO starts our season first, we will announce our rotation with plenty of advance notice so that ESEA will have the ability to mirror us if they choose to do so.
[/olist]
We take this issue seriously and fully sympathize with the frustration that it has been causing players, and will do our best to make it better going forward.
Thanks,
CEVO|Lange
slipzOr this might be a crazy idea, why not learn to scrim two maps during the week. It isn't that hard to say, he lets play this map one time and then lets play the other map. I don't understand why this is such a hard thing to do with tf2 scrims.
there are many teams only playing esea and other teams only playing cevo. these teams don't want to scrim on a map that's not the map of the week for this league, so they won't play each other.
[quote=slipz]Or this might be a crazy idea, why not learn to scrim two maps during the week. It isn't that hard to say, he lets play this map one time and then lets play the other map. I don't understand why this is such a hard thing to do with tf2 scrims.[/quote]
there are many teams only playing esea and other teams only playing cevo. these teams don't want to scrim on a map that's not the map of the week for this league, so they won't play each other.
there are many teams only playing esea and other teams only playing cevo. these teams don't want to scrim on a map that's not the map of the week for this league, so they won't play each other.
AloSecslipzOr this might be a crazy idea, why not learn to scrim two maps during the week. It isn't that hard to say, he lets play this map one time and then lets play the other map. I don't understand why this is such a hard thing to do with tf2 scrims.there are many teams only playing esea and other teams only playing cevo. these teams don't want to scrim on a map that's not the map of the week for this league, so they won't play each other.
Yeah but the other map is sure to come around at some point in the season, what's the harm in practicing something ahead of time? And there are plenty of things a team can work on that aren't map-specific.
[quote=AloSec][quote=slipz]Or this might be a crazy idea, why not learn to scrim two maps during the week. It isn't that hard to say, he lets play this map one time and then lets play the other map. I don't understand why this is such a hard thing to do with tf2 scrims.[/quote]
there are many teams only playing esea and other teams only playing cevo. these teams don't want to scrim on a map that's not the map of the week for this league, so they won't play each other.[/quote]
Yeah but the other map is sure to come around at some point in the season, what's the harm in practicing something ahead of time? And there are plenty of things a team can work on that aren't map-specific.
there are many teams only playing esea and other teams only playing cevo. these teams don't want to scrim on a map that's not the map of the week for this league, so they won't play each other.[/quote]
Yeah but the other map is sure to come around at some point in the season, what's the harm in practicing something ahead of time? And there are plenty of things a team can work on that aren't map-specific.
LunacideFinding a good scrim on IRC for any IM+ team is basically impossible now. If you don't schedule scrims, you don't scrim. This isnt necessarily a bad thing, but it hasn't always been like this.
add me sgp or blink, we're having the same issue.
[quote=Lunacide]Finding a good scrim on[i][/i] IRC for any IM+ team is basically impossible now. If you don't schedule scrims, you don't scrim. This isnt necessarily a bad thing, but it hasn't always been like this.[/quote]
add me sgp or blink, we're having the same issue.
add me sgp or blink, we're having the same issue.
LunacideFinding a good scrim on IRC for any IM+ team is basically impossible now. If you don't schedule scrims, you don't scrim. This isnt necessarily a bad thing, but it hasn't always been like this.
I have a feeling this is just because of the level of play. As you get closer to the top there are less and less teams at your skill level to scrim. I dont think it has much to do with the league split for IM+ teams since pretty much all of us focus on the esea map.
[quote=Lunacide]Finding a good scrim on[i][/i] IRC for any IM+ team is basically impossible now. If you don't schedule scrims, you don't scrim. This isnt necessarily a bad thing, but it hasn't always been like this.[/quote]
I have a feeling this is just because of the level of play. As you get closer to the top there are less and less teams at your skill level to scrim. I dont think it has much to do with the league split for IM+ teams since pretty much all of us focus on the esea map.
I have a feeling this is just because of the level of play. As you get closer to the top there are less and less teams at your skill level to scrim. I dont think it has much to do with the league split for IM+ teams since pretty much all of us focus on the esea map.
First, we will reach out to ESEA and see if they are willing to try and coordinate map rotations
Stop trying to be ESEA. Implement a veto system like you did in the CSGO.
1 bo3 every week.
[quote]First, we will reach out to ESEA and see if they are willing to try and coordinate map rotations[/quote]
Stop trying to be ESEA. Implement a veto system like you did in the CSGO.
https://cevo.com/event/cs-globaloffensive/news/212/best-of-three-map-selection-process-for-season-4-csgo-playoffs
1 bo3 every week.
Stop trying to be ESEA. Implement a veto system like you did in the CSGO.
https://cevo.com/event/cs-globaloffensive/news/212/best-of-three-map-selection-process-for-season-4-csgo-playoffs
1 bo3 every week.
1 bo3 every week.
I'd love to see a league implement this. Can go to 20 min 5CP and bo3 KOTH if there are concerns about time length.
[quote]1 bo3 every week.[/quote]
I'd love to see a league implement this. Can go to 20 min 5CP and bo3 KOTH if there are concerns about time length.
I'd love to see a league implement this. Can go to 20 min 5CP and bo3 KOTH if there are concerns about time length.
IDK, I'm kinda partial to ETF2L's 2-map fixtures. Though I don't how how exactly it could be adapted to a simple W-L system.
IDK, I'm kinda partial to ETF2L's 2-map fixtures. Though I don't how how exactly it could be adapted to a simple W-L system.
I think a lot of people posting about this comparison have not gone through a full season or more of scheduling. I have 3 ESEA seasons and this full season of CEVO totaling over 60 matches. Almost all of those matches needing some type of agreed upon adjustment to time/date/server. I feel I have a good grasp on the challenges of scheduling. My teams have never forfeit a match in any season and here are my thoughts from this season. My same team of 6 players has played this season in CEVO and ESEA at the same time and hope to do so next season as well.
Scheduling = CEVO First off, I would like to thank the CEVO admins for the decision to allow teams to schedule matches on their own, please don't change this policy in future seasons as it was greatly appreciated. I know for a fact that my team would not have been able to manage playing in ESEA and CEVO at the same time while finding time to actually practice for each map played every week.
ESEA cannot even compare in this category because of the "hard deadline" on scheduling matches. Both teams can agree but it means nothing to ESEA, no flexibility if the match does not fall within the deadline. IMO, ESEA should look to revise this rigid stance as it would greatly benefit the players and teams in the community. Secondly, getting any changes done in ESEA requires me to hunt down an admin to make the changes. With CEVO, I found it much easier to submit simple tickets with the match concerns. Every ticket was resolved in CEVO within 24 hours in almost every case and most were well in advance of the match night. Now I am sure ESEA admins are going to say "hey we have tickets too!". Every time I tried to open a ticket, I have gotten an error or the page simply froze over and over and did not submit. On top of that, the submit form itself is not simple at all. Maybe I am just old and stupid but simple is better to me. Even when I asked for help to find out why I got my errors, nothing got fixed or explained. I will not try and open any more tickets with ESEA, that whole process needs to be changed so you can submit a ticket quickly and to the point. Way too much extra and unnecessary information is required. The one ticket I did submit last season, I believe, was only fixed the same night of the match when I had to hunt down an admin to look into it.
Client = ESEA This area is overwhelmingly in ESEA's favor. Sure, the client has has issues for many seasons but it is extremely reliable in making sure the proper players are playing in the match. To me, that is the most important purpose for a client along with any cheating detection.
CEVO on the other hand is a totally different story. You can connect to the Paladin client for "check-in" but the client does not launch TF2 for you. This means that you can give any outside player the server info and he can connect and play the match even if that player is not "checked-in" through the client or on the team's roster. We had direct experience with this issue during the season and while do not want to get into the details of the situation, it was clear that the CEVO "rules" in this category were not upheld and were overruled based on admin perspective and not the written rules on the webpage. The ESEA client makes these type of problems non-existent and takes the admins out of the loop because the ESEA client connects you directly to your server.
Servers = CEVO This can be tied to scheduling but all in all, if you have a bad server in ESEA, you need to hunt down an admin and "attempt" to get it fixed. This process can be annoying and time consuming or simply not possible at all and you are forced to play on a shit server because the teams have no ability to make changes on their own. In CEVO, if both teams agree, you can cancel a reserved server and request a new server in less than 60 seconds and get a different location. This ties directly into CEVO's community first mentality, players/teams like this.
Stats = CEVO I find stats to be a fun side show of league play. It is nice to just look at them as I would for any professional sports league. ESEA at least has some form of combined stats for the whole season as well as your individual and team stats. As for CEVO, they have far superior individual match stats that include many different areas.
ESEA has been asked for several seasons for these type of stats to be integrated but nothing has changed. It is important for teams to see such stats especially related to medic and healing stats. I do not believe stats generate on CEVO matches unless it was a CEVO server reserved for the match, but overall I find the more in-depth CEVO match stats to be much more valuable tool for teams looking to improve than what ESEA provides.
Competition = ESEA ESEA is the main league and the benchmark for teams to test themselves. A few more CEVO seasons could possibly change this dynamic. I believe CEVO league organizers are proactive individuals who care for the game, listen to the community and actively make changes. If the dedication remains, I believe things can only get better for CEVO. However, at this moment, if you want the top competition in your division, you need to be in ESEA.
In the end, I feel ESEA still has many things to fix and change. The ESEA track record for "talking" about player friendly changes happen every off-season. Actually getting those changes made is another story. CEVO is still a work in progress but I don't think it can be denied that it was a successful comeback season. Major tweaking and work needs to be made with the CEVO client system as I see that as the most pressing and major issue concerning CEVO in the future. It currently does nothing to protect the integrity of the matches being played.
Sorry to be long winded, I had the extra time. :)
I think a lot of people posting about this comparison have not gone through a full season or more of scheduling. I have 3 ESEA seasons and this full season of CEVO totaling over 60 matches. Almost all of those matches needing some type of agreed upon adjustment to time/date/server. I feel I have a good grasp on the challenges of scheduling. My teams have never forfeit a match in any season and here are my thoughts from this season. My same team of 6 players has played this season in CEVO and ESEA at the same time and hope to do so next season as well.
[b][size=14]Scheduling = CEVO[/size][/b] First off, I would like to thank the CEVO admins for the decision to allow teams to schedule matches on their own, please don't change this policy in future seasons as it was greatly appreciated. I know for a fact that my team would not have been able to manage playing in ESEA and CEVO at the same time while finding time to actually practice for each map played every week.
ESEA cannot even compare in this category because of the "hard deadline" on scheduling matches. Both teams can agree but it means nothing to ESEA, no flexibility if the match does not fall within the deadline. IMO, ESEA should look to revise this rigid stance as it would greatly benefit the players and teams in the community. Secondly, getting any changes done in ESEA requires me to hunt down an admin to make the changes. With CEVO, I found it much easier to submit [b]simple tickets[/b] with the match concerns. Every ticket was resolved in CEVO within 24 hours in almost every case and most were well in advance of the match night. Now I am sure ESEA admins are going to say "hey we have tickets too!". Every time I tried to open a ticket, I have gotten an error or the page simply froze over and over and did not submit. On top of that, the submit form itself is not simple at all. Maybe I am just old and stupid but simple is better to me. Even when I asked for help to find out why I got my errors, nothing got fixed or explained. I will not try and open any more tickets with ESEA, that whole process needs to be changed so you can submit a ticket quickly and to the point. Way too much extra and unnecessary information is required. The one ticket I did submit last season, I believe, was only fixed the same night of the match when I had to hunt down an admin to look into it.
[b][size=14]Client = ESEA[/size][/b] This area is overwhelmingly in ESEA's favor. Sure, the client has has issues for many seasons but it is extremely reliable in making sure the proper players are playing in the match. To me, that is the most important purpose for a client along with any cheating detection.
CEVO on the other hand is a totally different story. You can connect to the Paladin client for "check-in" but the client does not launch TF2 for you. This means that you can give any outside player the server info and he can connect and play the match even if that player is not "checked-in" through the client or on the team's roster. We had direct experience with this issue during the season and while do not want to get into the details of the situation, it was clear that the CEVO "rules" in this category were not upheld and were overruled based on admin perspective and not the written rules on the webpage. The ESEA client makes these type of problems non-existent and takes the admins out of the loop because the ESEA client connects you directly to your server.
[b][size=14]Servers = CEVO[/size][/b] This can be tied to scheduling but all in all, if you have a bad server in ESEA, you need to hunt down an admin and "attempt" to get it fixed. This process can be annoying and time consuming or simply not possible at all and you are forced to play on a shit server because the teams have no ability to make changes on their own. In CEVO, if both teams agree, you can cancel a reserved server and request a new server in less than 60 seconds and get a different location. This ties directly into CEVO's community first mentality, players/teams like this.
[b][size=14]Stats = CEVO[/size][/b] I find stats to be a fun side show of league play. It is nice to just look at them as I would for any professional sports league. ESEA at least has some form of combined stats for the whole season as well as your individual and team stats. As for CEVO, they have far superior individual match stats that include many different areas.
ESEA has been asked for several seasons for these type of stats to be integrated but nothing has changed. It is important for teams to see such stats especially related to medic and healing stats. I do not believe stats generate on CEVO matches unless it was a CEVO server reserved for the match, but overall I find the more in-depth CEVO match stats to be much more valuable tool for teams looking to improve than what ESEA provides.
[b][size=14]Competition = ESEA[/size][/b] ESEA is the main league and the benchmark for teams to test themselves. A few more CEVO seasons could possibly change this dynamic. I believe CEVO league organizers are proactive individuals who care for the game, listen to the community and actively make changes. If the dedication remains, I believe things can only get better for CEVO. However, at this moment, if you want the top competition in your division, you need to be in ESEA.
In the end, I feel ESEA still has many things to fix and change. The ESEA track record for "talking" about player friendly changes happen every off-season. Actually getting those changes made is another story. CEVO is still a work in progress but I don't think it can be denied that it was a successful comeback season. Major tweaking and work needs to be made with the CEVO client system as I see that as the most pressing and major issue concerning CEVO in the future. It currently does nothing to protect the integrity of the matches being played.
Sorry to be long winded, I had the extra time. :)
[b][size=14]Scheduling = CEVO[/size][/b] First off, I would like to thank the CEVO admins for the decision to allow teams to schedule matches on their own, please don't change this policy in future seasons as it was greatly appreciated. I know for a fact that my team would not have been able to manage playing in ESEA and CEVO at the same time while finding time to actually practice for each map played every week.
ESEA cannot even compare in this category because of the "hard deadline" on scheduling matches. Both teams can agree but it means nothing to ESEA, no flexibility if the match does not fall within the deadline. IMO, ESEA should look to revise this rigid stance as it would greatly benefit the players and teams in the community. Secondly, getting any changes done in ESEA requires me to hunt down an admin to make the changes. With CEVO, I found it much easier to submit [b]simple tickets[/b] with the match concerns. Every ticket was resolved in CEVO within 24 hours in almost every case and most were well in advance of the match night. Now I am sure ESEA admins are going to say "hey we have tickets too!". Every time I tried to open a ticket, I have gotten an error or the page simply froze over and over and did not submit. On top of that, the submit form itself is not simple at all. Maybe I am just old and stupid but simple is better to me. Even when I asked for help to find out why I got my errors, nothing got fixed or explained. I will not try and open any more tickets with ESEA, that whole process needs to be changed so you can submit a ticket quickly and to the point. Way too much extra and unnecessary information is required. The one ticket I did submit last season, I believe, was only fixed the same night of the match when I had to hunt down an admin to look into it.
[b][size=14]Client = ESEA[/size][/b] This area is overwhelmingly in ESEA's favor. Sure, the client has has issues for many seasons but it is extremely reliable in making sure the proper players are playing in the match. To me, that is the most important purpose for a client along with any cheating detection.
CEVO on the other hand is a totally different story. You can connect to the Paladin client for "check-in" but the client does not launch TF2 for you. This means that you can give any outside player the server info and he can connect and play the match even if that player is not "checked-in" through the client or on the team's roster. We had direct experience with this issue during the season and while do not want to get into the details of the situation, it was clear that the CEVO "rules" in this category were not upheld and were overruled based on admin perspective and not the written rules on the webpage. The ESEA client makes these type of problems non-existent and takes the admins out of the loop because the ESEA client connects you directly to your server.
[b][size=14]Servers = CEVO[/size][/b] This can be tied to scheduling but all in all, if you have a bad server in ESEA, you need to hunt down an admin and "attempt" to get it fixed. This process can be annoying and time consuming or simply not possible at all and you are forced to play on a shit server because the teams have no ability to make changes on their own. In CEVO, if both teams agree, you can cancel a reserved server and request a new server in less than 60 seconds and get a different location. This ties directly into CEVO's community first mentality, players/teams like this.
[b][size=14]Stats = CEVO[/size][/b] I find stats to be a fun side show of league play. It is nice to just look at them as I would for any professional sports league. ESEA at least has some form of combined stats for the whole season as well as your individual and team stats. As for CEVO, they have far superior individual match stats that include many different areas.
ESEA has been asked for several seasons for these type of stats to be integrated but nothing has changed. It is important for teams to see such stats especially related to medic and healing stats. I do not believe stats generate on CEVO matches unless it was a CEVO server reserved for the match, but overall I find the more in-depth CEVO match stats to be much more valuable tool for teams looking to improve than what ESEA provides.
[b][size=14]Competition = ESEA[/size][/b] ESEA is the main league and the benchmark for teams to test themselves. A few more CEVO seasons could possibly change this dynamic. I believe CEVO league organizers are proactive individuals who care for the game, listen to the community and actively make changes. If the dedication remains, I believe things can only get better for CEVO. However, at this moment, if you want the top competition in your division, you need to be in ESEA.
In the end, I feel ESEA still has many things to fix and change. The ESEA track record for "talking" about player friendly changes happen every off-season. Actually getting those changes made is another story. CEVO is still a work in progress but I don't think it can be denied that it was a successful comeback season. Major tweaking and work needs to be made with the CEVO client system as I see that as the most pressing and major issue concerning CEVO in the future. It currently does nothing to protect the integrity of the matches being played.
Sorry to be long winded, I had the extra time. :)
AloSecso the thing about the awkward transition season that we're ending soon is that the community is split. its pretty obvious as you said. it makes the game feel smaller. its pretty shitty.
but next season, I think one league will die and another will thrive. and that all depends on how well cevo fixes their BS. currently, I think esea is the superior league due to the incredible scheduling & client. but if cevo fixes their backwards ass scheduling and makes their client actually prevent people from letting non-rostered players play in their games, it could be the premier league in no time. especially if they put together a real lan, I would see no reason to stick with esea.
once people are back on one league again, things will return to normal.
if cevo does everything esea is currently doing they will be a great league
[quote=AloSec]so the thing about the awkward transition season that we're ending soon is that the community is split. its pretty obvious as you said. it makes the game feel smaller. its pretty shitty.
but next season, I think one league will die and another will thrive. and that all depends on how well cevo fixes their BS. currently, I think esea is the superior league due to the incredible scheduling & client. but if cevo fixes their backwards ass scheduling and makes their client actually prevent people from letting non-rostered players play in their games, it could be the premier league in no time. especially if they put together a real lan, I would see no reason to stick with esea.
once people are back on one league again, things will return to normal.[/quote]
[quote]if cevo does everything esea is currently doing they will be a great league[/quote]
but next season, I think one league will die and another will thrive. and that all depends on how well cevo fixes their BS. currently, I think esea is the superior league due to the incredible scheduling & client. but if cevo fixes their backwards ass scheduling and makes their client actually prevent people from letting non-rostered players play in their games, it could be the premier league in no time. especially if they put together a real lan, I would see no reason to stick with esea.
once people are back on one league again, things will return to normal.[/quote]
[quote]if cevo does everything esea is currently doing they will be a great league[/quote]
miwoAloSecso the thing about the awkward transition season that we're ending soon is that the community is split. its pretty obvious as you said. it makes the game feel smaller. its pretty shitty.
but next season, I think one league will die and another will thrive. and that all depends on how well cevo fixes their BS. currently, I think esea is the superior league due to the incredible scheduling & client. but if cevo fixes their backwards ass scheduling and makes their client actually prevent people from letting non-rostered players play in their games, it could be the premier league in no time. especially if they put together a real lan, I would see no reason to stick with esea.
once people are back on one league again, things will return to normal.if cevo does everything esea is currently doing they will be a great league
basically, yeah
the reason I think so is because esea has a great foundation, but bad administration and bad response to community feedback leads to a pretty shitty player experience in the long run. I like cevo more currently because of the incredible admin responsiveness, and the actual progress in the changes to their league.
edit: cevo can be what esea should have been through actual improvement (instead of promised improvement) to their league.
[quote=miwo][quote=AloSec]so the thing about the awkward transition season that we're ending soon is that the community is split. its pretty obvious as you said. it makes the game feel smaller. its pretty shitty.
but next season, I think one league will die and another will thrive. and that all depends on how well cevo fixes their BS. currently, I think esea is the superior league due to the incredible scheduling & client. but if cevo fixes their backwards ass scheduling and makes their client actually prevent people from letting non-rostered players play in their games, it could be the premier league in no time. especially if they put together a real lan, I would see no reason to stick with esea.
once people are back on one league again, things will return to normal.[/quote]
[quote]if cevo does everything esea is currently doing they will be a great league[/quote][/quote]
basically, yeah
the reason I think so is because esea has a great foundation, but bad administration and bad response to community feedback leads to a pretty shitty player experience in the long run. I like cevo more currently because of the incredible admin responsiveness, and the actual progress in the changes to their league.
edit: cevo can be what esea should have been through actual improvement (instead of promised improvement) to their league.
but next season, I think one league will die and another will thrive. and that all depends on how well cevo fixes their BS. currently, I think esea is the superior league due to the incredible scheduling & client. but if cevo fixes their backwards ass scheduling and makes their client actually prevent people from letting non-rostered players play in their games, it could be the premier league in no time. especially if they put together a real lan, I would see no reason to stick with esea.
once people are back on one league again, things will return to normal.[/quote]
[quote]if cevo does everything esea is currently doing they will be a great league[/quote][/quote]
basically, yeah
the reason I think so is because esea has a great foundation, but bad administration and bad response to community feedback leads to a pretty shitty player experience in the long run. I like cevo more currently because of the incredible admin responsiveness, and the actual progress in the changes to their league.
edit: cevo can be what esea should have been through actual improvement (instead of promised improvement) to their league.
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