because no restriction 6's is what will finally unlock tf2 as an esport and get valve to pay attention to the game! (there will be a $10,000,000 invitational!)

many year ago almost all gun blacklist and pubber complain they cant play backburner pyro. we allow all weapon now and none of them join competitive game. very sad! if we no restriction surely they join now!

Pubbers believe the base game is well balanced and that the game should be about switching weapons and team comps to counter the opponent. They do not understand that the game is not well balanced and that it would devolve into figuring out the optimal ratio of demomen to vaccinator medics

which is funny cos spend 5 minutes playing demoman in a pub and everyone starts talking about how unfair it is to shoot stickies and detonate them in midair

something akin to nr6 with a draft system is preferable. in an ideal world we would remove most restrictions and play it out until something problematic is discovered, then valve would fix the problem in a way that benefits comp and casual. unfortunately, however, valve has had little to no incentive to change the balance of the game to placate a small and mostly dying subculture. the onus then falls on rgl to improve the format, but we currently live in a world where invite, advanced, and main all have the same number of teams, and nc and iM currently dont exist for hl, so creating a competitive mod now could easily be the nail in the coffin. The West has fallen Its over.

we have discovered the problematic things already bro

do you think weapon bans have been arbitrary, or do you think that "something problematic" was discovered about all of them

I feel like most unlocks and stinky classes were a major mistake

tf2 isn't an esport, it's a community driven video game

i personally think there should be an abundance of tournaments in 1v1. like i want to see a huntsman v huntsman matchup tournament. for every unlock. like you dont have to care who the best beggars bazooka player is in an MGE setting, but someone on reddit cares.

i think a lot of bans were arbitrary beyond a handful of truly problematic weapons, and the main reason some weapons were banned in the past, was that it would either conflict with bad players' theories like gru or buffalo steak needing to be banned cuz of heavy to mid, or they'd be thought of as unfun and people thought that answer was satisfactory. beyond the period of MyM, there's hardly been a serious effort in rebalancing weapons or classes, and historically the leagues have been very lazy with their whitelists, with ugc being the most egregious. it's not even that long ago that people were soying out over The Pee Statue, and now that it's been unbanned, nobody cares. if anything, it shouldn't even be a weapon and should just be part of medic's kit to make the game better. people used to seriously complain about how op the pomson 6000 is and that it had to remain banned, and that the game was ruined because of medic scout speed and the purported death of shotgun pocket. tf2 has always had a surplus of bad players giving their ideas on how the game needs to be to everyone's detriment, and i think the whitelists have reflected that.

why did it take so long to ban loch

i feel like it's because casual is the most popular game mode and the lack of support from valve to care about the game. At least with counter-strike, they host majors, the most significant events of the year, which are 5v5, MR13, Bomb Defusal, which pushed the general population to play mostly that game mode. I think CS also has custom player models which could give an advantage in-game, but there's a gentlemen's agreement on not to use them.

the game would be so much better if it had half the classes and unlocks but it would also be dead

[RANT] "6s" need complete teardown!

I find myself constantly amazed when playing against bots while also confused with state of meta game in tf2. I am sure that many don't play with bots ("offline training") a lot due to many posts of "Just do it" character as suggestions for new players when approaching tf2. I think many people confuse terms as play style specialization instead of core part of the game, for example:

* Battle engineer / medic is when you are participating aggressively in fight instead of playing passively
* My take : Thats just medic/engineer. That is how class is supposed to be played otherwise you wouldn't be able to do damage (medic) or would be stuck to your buildings.

This results in meta of being able to dish out damage while staying alive, but tf2 is much much much more than that - which bots show. In my opinion what produced this meta is combination of extreme skill/knowledge required to play comp and blindly copy pasting same principles to casual. There are entire dynamic front lines in tf2 which exist **only** if all classes are present at the same time and not if they are partially represented. If one has played with bots enough one can notice that they position themselves according to their specification:

1. Front line (closer to enemy): Pyro, Scout, Soilder
2. Middle line (core of the team): Demo, Heavy, NG
3. Back line ( backup of the team): Medic, Spy (other team backup) and Sniper

They present themselves always in that formation before game starts and hell is loose. And if you make teams uneven the composition automatically adjusts! Only reason why people dont realize this is because they dont play with bots but *also* because class imbalance has become the norm which prioritize solo damage dealing playstyle instead of teamwork.

There is nothing wrong with game /class balance even with unlocks, but they become overpowered once entire team isn't there because some load outs require multiple classes to be properly countered. Again playing with bots can clearly illustrate it, because if one makes team uneven (and bellow 9, so that classes are gradually not spawned) clear OP-ness of loadouts become more and more noticeable.

In full 9 classes team, there is no roamer / flanker/ambush because every class does it by simple fluctuation of fronts. If someone played with bots enough , they'd realize that if one of the tree (Solider,Demo,Sniper) is missing from team composition entire row of front line is busted and they will be demolished by Scout, Heavy and Medic no matter the loadout. What confuses me is that tf2 is played as checkers while its actually chess/shogi.

The majority of the issue is that entire battle front is actually dynamic, and nothing is stopping you (game mechanic wise) to go outside of your line for as long as you know where your safety is. There is plethora of strategies that can be used just because tf2 is tf2 and not CS:GO or other classless valve game but we keep not using it because we are playing tf2 like stupider CS:GO.

!

(cvv28jh3liwg1 "Chess in tf2")

So we end up limiting ourselves (even if game is showing us other different) to thoughts:
1. "Oh this class is OP!" , even if its not the class but the player in given team composition
2. "Oh this loadout is OP!" , even if it isn't , but if advisery team is all scouts, it becomes OP.
3. "Tf2 class distribution is wrong!", only because we don't play how game intended
3. "Spy counters engineer" (or input whatever class pair), no it doesnt! Spy is a long distance friend of NG and Pyro and can't function without them.

People at valve aren't stupid, they put a lot of thought it which order classes would be represented and what are drawbacks of each. Why do we think we know better than people who spent months/years building an system and a way to show it to us - if we chose to notice. All this because we like to blow stuff up by ourselves without working as a team. So 6v6 dropped in class representation because we as people couldn't gather entire team and played tf2 like quake/cs, which produced meta that is active till this day.

So comp (and by extension casual) should get a quick remodel. Instead of 6v6, it should focus on mixing and matching 3x3 , each team enabling one row of entire front line. Then they dont have to shorten the game to make it dynamic and fun, and they don't have to punish entire team for not advancing given expirience gap.

Tf2, according to what i can see in game design, is meant to be played by preference (maining) in teams of 3 players. Then entire combat lineup is made from different teams which isn't difficult to combine and play. Then you can have 9v9 and 6v6 and 3v3 depending on ranking. This alone would remove A LOT of misconceptions about classes, play styles and make both comp and casual team work based instead of rushing blindly into the fight.

Rant over.

americans voted in rfk jr so there are too many brain worms in their water to be able to realise how stupidly op the weapon is

loch wasnt banned in etf2l until s46 so what excuse do the europoors have

we use democracy for weapon votes and democracy doesn't work

This is a good point, however majority of weapons have actually been explored reasonably well now, even if it took us two decades. The most restrictive league etf2l bans just 30 unlocks out of 151, I think all but 9 of these have been allowed at some point. Yes the remaining weapons have not been fully explored, but the majority have such problematic stats that their effect on the game is extremely unlikely to be positive. Here's a quick list of weapons that have never been unbanned in a major 6s league to my knowledge.

reserve shooter
soda popper
crit a cola
cleaver
milk
whip
fists of steel
short circuit
wrangler

when was piss unbanned??

the game is already fun and theres very few weapons that have made it more fun. i really cant relate to the mindset of someone who thinks The Backburner makes the game more interesting or enjoyable regardless of whether it's powerful.

we wouldnt need bans if we played the game properly

https://i.redd.it/tczxhasnbaeh1.png

there was 2 different periods in esea where it was unbanned
sydney sleeper was actually banned before jarate