There is a line here though. I agree playing against better players makes you better faster but when you get obliterated by a large skill gap there is too much to digest/learn. One side stomps are never good for competitive value in ANY div not just Invite. Moving up the WRONG teams kills motivation and puts stress on TL's to make hard cuts to their teams to be competitive at a level they didn't expect to be at.

I think improving to the point of being able to have someone else cut their main rostered player for you is insane.

But it happens.

Like yes? This is a survivorship bias answer though. MOST people will not be able to convince a TL of a winning team to cut their main rostered players unless there is some amount of drama with that main rostered player.

Ok but these teams who were forced to move up into invite have already gotten wins. They are playing a lot of the same teams they already would have since multiple teams got moved up.

To your first point, you are misunderstanding. Mathematically there is always a team that is on the bottom of the leaderboard. It is impossible for a division to only have a high end and mid end. There is always a loser, that's how competition works. Not everyone gets to be the best in their division. Like yogrrt has said, it's important that each div has a viable playoff structure, and that necessitates a certain number of teams per div, even if that includes moveups. And teams on the bottom of the leaderboard still improve way faster than the team in the division below that wins the division. That's valuable, and any player in the higher divs will tell you so.

And your second, I would prefer that moveup teams scrim teams in their division, but I understand that not every team is mentally strong enough to lose a lot of their scrims, and it isn't that valuable if they lose 90% of their scrims, because then they don't get as much practice for close games with time pressure. But not for one second would I believe that a team genuinely trying to improve would always lose on match day against a team just 1 div higher than what they believed their skill level was weeks ago when they got their placement. Especially when, frankly, advanced and main is not as large of a gap as advanced and invite, and advanced moveups usually get a win or at least a few really close games in invite. There are plenty of invite players willing to do team map reviews and occasionally watch demos, and their insight (if actually actively listened to) is super valuable.

For your last point, you are again misunderstanding, I am not saying that a player should expect to improve to the point that another team cuts their player for them. Rather, after the season is over, you get more exposure to other players in that division, and if new teams form, you'll get the call up. That's how it's worked for more than a decade, and I can give you plenty of examples of solid Invite players having that exact trajectory. And also, as timeless said, there are also times that players get poached because they get really good. Happens sometimes.

I just want to run it back in 4s with some friends

the game is 20 years old and dying, and this scene has been stagnant for what feels like 10 years of that time. this thread feels like a critique of the band playing on the Titanic while the ship goes down. actually what are we doing here? ofc this shit is going to turn into petty reddit mod type dudes (gender neutral) turning whatever corner of the league they get their grubby mitts on into their personal fiefdom, that's just what happens when nothing matters anymore and everyone who cares about anything or knows how to do anything moved on 10 years ago when OW came out and offered them a paycheck to do what they're passionate about. it's honestly insane to me that the scene is around at all at this point. there are like 5 or 6 guys (gender neutral) who give enough of a shit and do enough shit to keep the ball rolling and best case they're just taken for granted, and worst case people complain that they don't work enough miracles. like, stfu, honestly. it's delusional. the fact is that there are no selling points for tf2 as an esport, and we are no longer in an era where a 'grassroots community' matters for esports because anybody who is capable of doing any of the actual things that make the scene go round could go make money doing it for a game that will actually, yknow, PAY THEM. and yeah it'd be awesome if we could crowdfund 100 grand a year to pay a couple of people's salaries to really get shit poppin again but if we're dreaming why not just dream about daddy valve coming home from the store and loving us again.

idk. like, it's been the same thread for 10 years man. at this point what is 'admin transparency' supposed to do? like what, do you just need to know absolutely for a fact that the bad decisions that the admins make are because they're being made by petulant morons? ofc they are, those are the only people stupid enough to still want the job. there are still some good people trying to do good and #notalladmins or w/ever. but like, seriously, any good admin in tf2 is doing, at this point, A LOT of charity work, and they don't even get to write it off on their taxes. for the most part tho, anybody with any drive or ambition or passion or determination or literally any positive quality is going to either move on from tf2 as soon as they get the chance or not even bother starting here because tf2 is a dead fucking end.

and it's not all valve's fault either, by the way. the culture around the game blows chunks for literally too many reasons to enumerate rn. but suffice it to say that that's gonna push away pretty much the rest of the people who are capable and give a shit.

anyways shout outs to siyo, antlers, underscore, lacy, all the rest of the fireside dudes (gender neutral), arcadia, comanglia, eXtine, nonoe, everyone from TF.TV and kritzkast, everyone else i'm forgetting right now, and everyone who's ever run or worked on a project or done anything for the community because you actually gave a shit. you're all braver, stronger, and more determined than I could ever be. ur all my personal heroes.