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ETF2L complaint
1
#1
0 Frags +

Alright, so let me get this out of the way at the very start - This post is not attack on specific ETF2L admins, nor is it an attack on the teams mentioned in this post. I just wish to explain my frustrations in how tournament provisional tiers are handled, or rather to give a specific example of an experience that has happened to me recently that I feel should not have happened at all in the league.

Ok, with that out of the way let me start.
The team I am playing on for this season is a mid division team - We have had roster changes just after provisional tiers were released in which we changed out 2 members of our flank. We changed out the soldier and the engineer, both of which have mid+ experience on different classes, most notably our soldier technically counting as prem as he had played 3+ matches in that division albeit on a different class.

In regards to the skill contribution rule, we went over the point limit and broke it. This isn't a pity party post in which I complain we were wronged as a team whilst simultaneously ignoring the fact that as a team we did break the rule. I accept that we did break it, however I am still dissatisfied about the circumstances of this rule break in regards to the other team we were facing that claimed the rule break.

Fast forward to our second match of the season. We are up against Complete Guesswork on badwater. The match is close but ultimately ends in a golden cap loss for our team. Our leader submits the results and we move on. A week later, our leader checks the match page and informs us we have a default loss against the team we previously faced.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/285221673882615808/701407509239562290/unknown.png

Like I said before - We broke the rules. This post is in no way trying to deny that. However I take issue with two main points in regards to the circumstances that this rule break was given to us.

1. Provisional tiers. This should mean putting a team in the divisions most suited to them to ensure a healthy competitive base for the season. Our team had requested to go mid and had no issue with being put in there.
On the other hand, Complete Guesswork (just going to shorten it down to COGU for all our sakes) had previously played division 2 (for those not familiar with ETF2L division 2 is a div above mid) and placed 5th overall in the season, demoting them down to mid. However, what confuses me is that, whilst they were demoted, the team itself still technically broke the Skill Contribution heavily - having 4 players with mid+ experience. Of course, several members of our team made admin requests to question why COGU also wasn't penalized for this rule break, especially since they had won albeit in a golden cap. Below is a response from one of the admins (who will remain anonymous)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/285221673882615808/701411094094282832/unknown.png

As you can see, the only reason why COGU wasn't penalized for this rule break as well was because the players that broke said rule were rostered before provisonal tiers were annouced. Now, tell me - shouldn't a team that technically heavily breaks the Skill Contribution rule of the division they were ultimately put in, be put in a higher division despite being demoted? What makes this more questionable is the fact that COGU's main roster had stayed exactly the same from when they had played division 2, surely if they had been demoted to mid and been made to stay there, they should've been forced to do a roster change OR been penalized for the same rule we were? Why were they able to claim a default win on the basis of being against an overskilled team despite having played and having the roster for a division 2 season?

2. The second issue I have with the circumstances of this rule break is the fact that it had happened on our second played match as opposed to our first - COGU's leader had informed the admins of this. Again, we asked why we didn't get a warning on the first match, to which we were told that the system was down on the week of the first match we played. However, it has been two weeks since the first match - No admins had contacted us or informed us that we had technically broke the rules in that period of time. We had played with the same roster on our first match, so I feel we should've had a right to know that we were breaking rules in the period between matches and yet no attempt was made to inform us. None of our team members have private profiles, so we could have easily been added and informed by one of the admins in the 2 week period between matches, ensuring that we could've made a roster change in time for the second match.

Thats the end of my spiel for now.
Thank you for reading this wall of text.

Alright, so let me get this out of the way at the very start - This post is not attack on specific ETF2L admins, nor is it an attack on the teams mentioned in this post. I just wish to explain my frustrations in how tournament provisional tiers are handled, or rather to give a specific example of an experience that has happened to me recently that I feel should not have happened at all in the league.

Ok, with that out of the way let me start.
The team I am playing on for this season is a mid division team - We have had roster changes just after provisional tiers were released in which we changed out 2 members of our flank. We changed out the soldier and the engineer, both of which have mid+ experience on different classes, most notably our soldier technically counting as prem as he had played 3+ matches in that division albeit on a different class.

In regards to the skill contribution rule, we went over the point limit and broke it. This isn't a pity party post in which I complain we were wronged as a team whilst simultaneously ignoring the fact that as a team we did break the rule. I accept that we did break it, however I am still dissatisfied about the circumstances of this rule break in regards to the other team we were facing that claimed the rule break.

Fast forward to our second match of the season. We are up against Complete Guesswork on badwater. The match is close but ultimately ends in a golden cap loss for our team. Our leader submits the results and we move on. A week later, our leader checks the match page and informs us we have a default loss against the team we previously faced.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/285221673882615808/701407509239562290/unknown.png

Like I said before - We broke the rules. This post is in no way trying to deny that. However I take issue with two main points in regards to the circumstances that this rule break was given to us.

1. Provisional tiers. This should mean putting a team in the divisions most suited to them to ensure a healthy competitive base for the season. Our team had requested to go mid and had no issue with being put in there.
On the other hand, Complete Guesswork (just going to shorten it down to COGU for all our sakes) had previously played division 2 (for those not familiar with ETF2L division 2 is a div above mid) and placed 5th overall in the season, demoting them down to mid. However, what confuses me is that, whilst they were demoted, the team itself still technically broke the Skill Contribution heavily - having 4 players with mid+ experience. Of course, several members of our team made admin requests to question why COGU also wasn't penalized for this rule break, especially since they had won albeit in a golden cap. Below is a response from one of the admins (who will remain anonymous)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/285221673882615808/701411094094282832/unknown.png

As you can see, the only reason why COGU wasn't penalized for this rule break as well was because the players that broke said rule were rostered before provisonal tiers were annouced. Now, tell me - shouldn't a team that technically heavily breaks the Skill Contribution rule of the division they were ultimately put in, be put in a higher division despite being demoted? What makes this more questionable is the fact that COGU's main roster had stayed exactly the same from when they had played division 2, surely if they had been demoted to mid and been made to stay there, they should've been forced to do a roster change OR been penalized for the same rule we were? Why were they able to claim a default win on the basis of being against an overskilled team despite having played and having the roster for a division 2 season?

2. The second issue I have with the circumstances of this rule break is the fact that it had happened on our second played match as opposed to our first - COGU's leader had informed the admins of this. Again, we asked why we didn't get a warning on the first match, to which we were told that the system was down on the week of the first match we played. However, it has been two weeks since the first match - No admins had contacted us or informed us that we had technically broke the rules in that period of time. We had played with the same roster on our first match, so I feel we should've had a right to know that we were breaking rules in the period between matches and yet no attempt was made to inform us. None of our team members have private profiles, so we could have easily been added and informed by one of the admins in the 2 week period between matches, ensuring that we could've made a roster change in time for the second match.

Thats the end of my spiel for now.
Thank you for reading this wall of text.
2
#2
33 Frags +

why isnt ace banned yet

why isnt ace banned yet
3
#3
1 Frags +

Their point system when it comes to adding players after provisional tiers is also confusing to me.

I was counted as 1 point after being added to a low team after provisional tiers were published, because I played 1 season in a bottom mid team as SOLDIER in 6S, my only previous highlander experience is one open season where i made quarterfinals, thats it, and im still counted as a mid player?

Their rules in general are really weird to me, like their admin discretion rule just lets them pretty much do whatever they want?

Their point system when it comes to adding players after provisional tiers is also confusing to me.

I was counted as 1 point after being added to a low team after provisional tiers were published, because I played 1 season in a bottom mid team as SOLDIER in 6S, my only previous highlander experience is one open season where i made quarterfinals, thats it, and im still counted as a mid player?

Their rules in general are really weird to me, like their admin discretion rule just lets them pretty much do whatever they want?
4
#4
1 Frags +
MisterDannyTheir point system when it comes to adding players after provisional tiers is also confusing to me.

I was counted as 1 point after being added to a low team after provisional tiers were published, because I played 1 season in a bottom mid team as SOLDIER in 6S, my only previous highlander experience is one open season where i made quarterfinals, thats it, and im still counted as a mid player?

Their rules in general are really weird to me, like their admin discretion rule just lets them pretty much do whatever they want?

allegedly, if you had played in that mid season in the past 3 season, and played 3+ games in mid, then you count as a mid player. I do agree that results should be taken into account, as well as classes played in season.

[quote=MisterDanny]Their point system when it comes to adding players after provisional tiers is also confusing to me.

I was counted as 1 point after being added to a low team after provisional tiers were published, because I played 1 season in a bottom mid team as SOLDIER in 6S, my only previous highlander experience is one open season where i made quarterfinals, thats it, and im still counted as a mid player?

Their rules in general are really weird to me, like their admin discretion rule just lets them pretty much do whatever they want?[/quote]

allegedly, if you had played in that mid season in the past 3 season, and played 3+ games in mid, then you count as a mid player. I do agree that results should be taken into account, as well as classes played in season.
5
#5
12 Frags +

these situations are almost always fixed if you contact the admin *before* you break the rule. if you add them and explain the player is gonna offclass and ask if thats ok then they are usually really lenient on it.

these situations are almost always fixed if you contact the admin *before* you break the rule. if you add them and explain the player is gonna offclass and ask if thats ok then they are usually really lenient on it.
6
#6
2 Frags +
solareMisterDannyTheir point system when it comes to adding players after provisional tiers is also confusing to me.

I was counted as 1 point after being added to a low team after provisional tiers were published, because I played 1 season in a bottom mid team as SOLDIER in 6S, my only previous highlander experience is one open season where i made quarterfinals, thats it, and im still counted as a mid player?

Their rules in general are really weird to me, like their admin discretion rule just lets them pretty much do whatever they want?

allegedly, if you had played in that mid season in the past 3 season, and played 3+ games in mid, then you count as a mid player. I do agree that results should be taken into account, as well as classes played in season.

What confused me though is how they expect mid experience as soldier in 6s to carry over as spy in highlander in low, it seemed very irrational to me to build a connection between the two.

[quote=solare][quote=MisterDanny]Their point system when it comes to adding players after provisional tiers is also confusing to me.

I was counted as 1 point after being added to a low team after provisional tiers were published, because I played 1 season in a bottom mid team as SOLDIER in 6S, my only previous highlander experience is one open season where i made quarterfinals, thats it, and im still counted as a mid player?

Their rules in general are really weird to me, like their admin discretion rule just lets them pretty much do whatever they want?[/quote]

allegedly, if you had played in that mid season in the past 3 season, and played 3+ games in mid, then you count as a mid player. I do agree that results should be taken into account, as well as classes played in season.[/quote]

What confused me though is how they expect mid experience as soldier in 6s to carry over as spy in highlander in low, it seemed very irrational to me to build a connection between the two.
7
#7
6 Frags +

Experience rule is nice in theory cause who wants any random team to just start rolling up with subs they got mid way through the season that are in a way higher div than the given team, but the completely unclear nature of what flies and what doesnt pre provisional tiers is such a huge issue and is how we got into fun situations like Carbo in mid last season which just shouldnt happen

BumFreezethese situations are almost always fixed if you contact the admin *before* you break the rule. if you add them and explain the player is gonna offclass and ask if thats ok then they are usually really lenient on it.

isnt that kind of a problem as well tho, so many people just can rely on being able to break the rules because they now admins are nice about it and everyones case seems to be a "special exception", why even have the rule. Except you still get cases were admins say no to players sometimes at what feels like random for asking some high player to play in mid while people that dont ask typically only get a minor warning for it, the way it works rn just encourages people to break rules and ask for forgiveness cause they know its fine (both examples that happened within a week of eachother last season)
The only thing that is good out of all this is people actually getting punished for blindly breaking the experience rule now (hopefully this will last) even if it is very detrimental for this HL team

Experience rule is nice in theory cause who wants any random team to just start rolling up with subs they got mid way through the season that are in a way higher div than the given team, but the completely unclear nature of what flies and what doesnt pre provisional tiers is such a huge issue and is how we got into fun situations like Carbo in mid last season which just shouldnt happen

[quote=BumFreeze]these situations are almost always fixed if you contact the admin *before* you break the rule. if you add them and explain the player is gonna offclass and ask if thats ok then they are usually really lenient on it.[/quote]

isnt that kind of a problem as well tho, so many people just can rely on being able to break the rules because they now admins are nice about it and everyones case seems to be a "special exception", why even have the rule. Except you still get cases were admins say no to players sometimes at what feels like random for asking some high player to play in mid while people that dont ask typically only get a minor warning for it, the way it works rn just encourages people to break rules and ask for forgiveness cause they know its fine (both examples that happened within a week of eachother last season)
The only thing that is good out of all this is people actually getting punished for blindly breaking the experience rule now (hopefully this will last) even if it is very detrimental for this HL team
8
#8
-2 Frags +
DuMmTmExperience rule is nice in theory cause who wants any random team to just start rolling up with subs they got mid way through the season that are in a way higher div than the given team, but the completely unclear nature of what flies and what doesnt pre provisional tiers is such a huge issue and is how we got into fun situations like Carbo in mid last season which just shouldnt happen

I completely agree. I would want the rule to be expanded on to at least give more clarity on provisional tiers and experience in divisions. Ideally i would also want them to take into account classes played in season- Like MisterDanny said

MisterDannysolareMisterDannyTheir point system when it comes to adding players after provisional tiers is also confusing to me.

I was counted as 1 point after being added to a low team after provisional tiers were published, because I played 1 season in a bottom mid team as SOLDIER in 6S, my only previous highlander experience is one open season where i made quarterfinals, thats it, and im still counted as a mid player?

Their rules in general are really weird to me, like their admin discretion rule just lets them pretty much do whatever they want?

allegedly, if you had played in that mid season in the past 3 season, and played 3+ games in mid, then you count as a mid player. I do agree that results should be taken into account, as well as classes played in season.

What confused me though is how they expect mid experience as soldier in 6s to carry over as spy in highlander in low, it seemed very irrational to me to build a connection between the two.

but I do understand that it's a grey area most of the time, some class experience transfers into other classes better than others.

[quote=DuMmTm]Experience rule is nice in theory cause who wants any random team to just start rolling up with subs they got mid way through the season that are in a way higher div than the given team, but the completely unclear nature of what flies and what doesnt pre provisional tiers is such a huge issue and is how we got into fun situations like Carbo in mid last season which just shouldnt happen[/quote]

I completely agree. I would want the rule to be expanded on to at least give more clarity on provisional tiers and experience in divisions. Ideally i would also want them to take into account classes played in season- Like MisterDanny said

[quote=MisterDanny][quote=solare][quote=MisterDanny]Their point system when it comes to adding players after provisional tiers is also confusing to me.

I was counted as 1 point after being added to a low team after provisional tiers were published, because I played 1 season in a bottom mid team as SOLDIER in 6S, my only previous highlander experience is one open season where i made quarterfinals, thats it, and im still counted as a mid player?

Their rules in general are really weird to me, like their admin discretion rule just lets them pretty much do whatever they want?[/quote]

allegedly, if you had played in that mid season in the past 3 season, and played 3+ games in mid, then you count as a mid player. I do agree that results should be taken into account, as well as classes played in season.[/quote]

What confused me though is how they expect mid experience as soldier in 6s to carry over as spy in highlander in low, it seemed very irrational to me to build a connection between the two.[/quote]

but I do understand that it's a grey area most of the time, some class experience transfers into other classes better than others.
9
#9
9 Frags +

The reason we didn't break the rule is because admins looked at our team and they were like "lol these guys are bad xd lets put them in mid". We didn't play with any players added after provisional tiers so our team is still at the same skill level. You guys made a team with certain players and based on that the admins put you in the division they think is most suited for you. Now if you add players after roster lock it means that that might not be the case anymore, so they had to introduce a points rule. I'm not saying you should've been punished, cause in my opinion your team is perfectly fine in mid, but the rules are pretty clear and make sense.

The reason we didn't break the rule is because admins looked at our team and they were like "lol these guys are bad xd lets put them in mid". We didn't play with any players added after provisional tiers so our team is still at the same skill level. You guys made a team with certain players and based on that the admins put you in the division they think is most suited for you. Now if you add players after roster lock it means that that might not be the case anymore, so they had to introduce a points rule. I'm not saying you should've been punished, cause in my opinion your team is perfectly fine in mid, but the rules are pretty clear and make sense.
10
#10
0 Frags +
pijackaThe reason we didn't break the rule is because admins looked at our team and they were like "lol these guys are bad xd lets put them in mid". We didn't play with any players added after provisional tiers so our team is still at the same skill level. You guys made a team with certain players and based on that the admins put you in the division they think is most suited for you. Now if you add players after roster lock it means that that might not be the case anymore, so they had to introduce a points rule. I'm not saying you should've been punished, cause in my opinion your team is perfectly fine in mid, but the rules are pretty clear and make sense.

Fair enough. As far as I know your team wanted to go div 2, but that brings me on to another question.
As I said before and as you know, the game we played went to golden cap. Your team had won overall, but it was a very close match. Your leader then went on to claim on the overskilled rule - i'm not here to complain or rant at your team leader for doing so.

Why would your team leader still be able to claim on the overskilled rule? I know that we broke the rule, and that's what your leader claimed on, but surely the fact that the game we played went into golden cap and the fact that we lost overrules it? Since the game was so balanced it literally went to the last round means that our overexperienced players didn't matter, at least thats how I feel. Ultimately at this point it doesn't matter. The admins have made their decision, but I still don't like how provisonals were handled for this season.

[quote=pijacka]The reason we didn't break the rule is because admins looked at our team and they were like "lol these guys are bad xd lets put them in mid". We didn't play with any players added after provisional tiers so our team is still at the same skill level. You guys made a team with certain players and based on that the admins put you in the division they think is most suited for you. Now if you add players after roster lock it means that that might not be the case anymore, so they had to introduce a points rule. I'm not saying you should've been punished, cause in my opinion your team is perfectly fine in mid, but the rules are pretty clear and make sense.[/quote]

Fair enough. As far as I know your team wanted to go div 2, but that brings me on to another question.
As I said before and as you know, the game we played went to golden cap. Your team had won overall, but it was a very close match. Your leader then went on to claim on the overskilled rule - i'm not here to complain or rant at your team leader for doing so.

Why would your team leader still be able to claim on the overskilled rule? I know that we broke the rule, and that's what your leader claimed on, but surely the fact that the game we played went into golden cap and the fact that we lost overrules it? Since the game was so balanced it literally went to the last round means that our overexperienced players didn't matter, at least thats how I feel. Ultimately at this point it doesn't matter. The admins have made their decision, but I still don't like how provisonals were handled for this season.
11
#11
0 Frags +

It's more out of principle and so that their rulings are consistent more than anything else. Also we player really badly in that game and I can easily see it being a 6-0 for you if we didn't get a bit lucky on the rounds we won.

It's more out of principle and so that their rulings are consistent more than anything else. Also we player really badly in that game and I can easily see it being a 6-0 for you if we didn't get a bit lucky on the rounds we won.
12
#12
21 Frags +

Excuse me sirs, but this is supposed to be a drama thread. less levelheadedness and more anger please, the North Americans just delivered a juicy thread, and we get this???

Excuse me sirs, but this is supposed to be a drama thread. less levelheadedness and more anger please, the North Americans just delivered a juicy thread, and we get this???
13
#13
0 Frags +

It sounds like you changed your roster right after being placed in a div and before the season started, could ETF2L not have just moved you to a different div that's more representative of your roster?

It sounds like you changed your roster right after being placed in a div and before the season started, could ETF2L not have just moved you to a different div that's more representative of your roster?
14
#14
4 Frags +

The point of skill contribution being enforced after provisional tiers is that admins can look at teams and attempt to place them into the divisions they deserve with the players they have.

COGU has some high div players, but they finished 5th (out of 6 teams in their group) in Div 2 last season, so they're demoted to mid. On the contrary if another team is placed into mid, and then adds new players to their roster, they could theoretically no longer be a mid level team. Teams gaining new players and then essentially sandbagging is why the skill contribution and hijacking rule exist.

Also important to note that ETF2L seemed to try and make the higher divs more exclusive this season, ie. we've gone from 12 teams in Div 2 to 6. They also originally didn't have a Low division (division separating Mid and Open), so Mid was a total clusterfuck of ex-Div 2 teams and then teams just out of Open. ETF2L decided to push some Div 1 teams into Div 2, and some Div 2 teams into Mid, which is part of the reason COGU is in Mid. If there was still 12 spots for Div 2, COGU would likely be there.

The point of skill contribution being enforced after provisional tiers is that admins can look at teams and attempt to place them into the divisions they deserve with the players they have.

COGU has some high div players, but they finished 5th (out of 6 teams in their group) in Div 2 last season, so they're demoted to mid. On the contrary if another team is placed into mid, and then adds new players to their roster, they could theoretically no longer be a mid level team. Teams gaining new players and then essentially sandbagging is why the skill contribution and hijacking rule exist.

Also important to note that ETF2L seemed to try and make the higher divs more exclusive this season, ie. we've gone from 12 teams in Div 2 to 6. They also originally didn't have a Low division (division separating Mid and Open), so Mid was a total clusterfuck of ex-Div 2 teams and then teams just out of Open. ETF2L decided to push some Div 1 teams into Div 2, and some Div 2 teams into Mid, which is part of the reason COGU is in Mid. If there was still 12 spots for Div 2, COGU would likely be there.
15
#15
5 Frags +

seems like a u problem tbh

seems like a u problem tbh
16
#16
-12 Frags +

Its mad how somewhere in the world theres a 12 year old kid walking 20 miles a day to get water for him and his family, and were on here complaining about a league in a video game.

Its mad how somewhere in the world theres a 12 year old kid walking 20 miles a day to get water for him and his family, and were on here complaining about a league in a video game.
17
#17
2 Frags +
sacExcuse me sirs, but this is supposed to be a drama thread. less levelheadedness and more anger please, the North Americans just delivered a juicy thread, and we get this???

no u
https://i.imgur.com/zh1UByW.jpg

[quote=sac]Excuse me sirs, but this is supposed to be a drama thread. less levelheadedness and more anger please, the North Americans just delivered a juicy thread, and we get this???[/quote]

no u
https://i.imgur.com/zh1UByW.jpg
18
#18
2 Frags +
DonuskusIts mad how somewhere in the world theres a 12 year old kid walking 20 miles a day to get water for him and his family, and were on here complaining about a league in a video game.

well can't he just open the tap to get water ? kids these days

[quote=Donuskus]Its mad how somewhere in the world theres a 12 year old kid walking 20 miles a day to get water for him and his family, and were on here complaining about a league in a video game.[/quote]
well can't he just open the tap to get water ? kids these days
19
#19
6 Frags +
MisterDannyWhat confused me though is how they expect mid experience as soldier in 6s to carry over as spy in highlander in low, it seemed very irrational to me to build a connection between the two.

it doesn't, but admins probably don't have a massive spreadsheet that categorizes your mainclass, your team performance and individual performance in 6v6 and tells you which classes you can play in which divisions and which classes you can't play in which divisions.

can a 6v6 main mid soldier who did well in his losing team play low spy? if not, can a 6v6 main mid soldier who didn't perform well in his losing team? it's beyond arbitrary and subjective in most cases so they just check your experience against the div you want to play and that's it.

there aren't that many black and white cases where a majority would allow people in a division below without any penalty because people will constantly try to argue the validity of the admins' judgement.

"this solly got 8 airshots in this log (<a 0-3 product game on his 0-8 w/l team>) and hes allowed to play demo in low with no penalty????"

[quote=MisterDanny]
What confused me though is how they expect mid experience as soldier in 6s to carry over as spy in highlander in low, it seemed very irrational to me to build a connection between the two.[/quote]

it doesn't, but admins probably don't have a massive spreadsheet that categorizes your mainclass, your team performance and individual performance in 6v6 and tells you which classes you can play in which divisions and which classes you can't play in which divisions.

can a 6v6 main mid soldier who did well in his losing team play low spy? if not, can a 6v6 main mid soldier who didn't perform well in his losing team? it's beyond arbitrary and subjective in most cases so they just check your experience against the div you want to play and that's it.

there aren't that many black and white cases where a majority would allow people in a division below without any penalty because people will constantly try to argue the validity of the admins' judgement.

"this solly got 8 airshots in this log (<a 0-3 product game on his 0-8 w/l team>) and hes allowed to play demo in low with no penalty????"
20
#20
0 Frags +
quintoshMisterDannyWhat confused me though is how they expect mid experience as soldier in 6s to carry over as spy in highlander in low, it seemed very irrational to me to build a connection between the two.
it doesn't, but admins probably don't have a massive spreadsheet that categorizes your mainclass, your team performance and individual performance in 6v6 and tells you which classes you can play in which divisions and which classes you can't play in which divisions.

can a 6v6 main mid soldier who did well in his losing team play low spy? if not, can a 6v6 main mid soldier who didn't perform well in his losing team? it's beyond arbitrary and subjective in most cases so they just check your experience against the div you want to play and that's it.

there aren't that many black and white cases where a majority would allow people in a division below without any penalty because people will constantly try to argue the validity of the admins' judgement.

"this solly got 8 airshots in this log (<a 0-3 product game on his 0-8 w/l team>) and hes allowed to play demo in low with no penalty????"

What I should have mentioned is that they knew which classes I played in both Mid and Low, I can understand that the admins cant obviously know what classes we all play, but even after mentioning this to them they doubled down, they checked our ETF2L team page, even on there it says im the spy and I told them so directly after complaining about me being counted as a point.

I don't expect admins to know every single detail about every no name low/mid player, but if people go out of their way to present facts to admins that would nullify their complaints, shouldn't it be worth atleast something?

[quote=quintosh][quote=MisterDanny]
What confused me though is how they expect mid experience as soldier in 6s to carry over as spy in highlander in low, it seemed very irrational to me to build a connection between the two.[/quote]

it doesn't, but admins probably don't have a massive spreadsheet that categorizes your mainclass, your team performance and individual performance in 6v6 and tells you which classes you can play in which divisions and which classes you can't play in which divisions.

can a 6v6 main mid soldier who did well in his losing team play low spy? if not, can a 6v6 main mid soldier who didn't perform well in his losing team? it's beyond arbitrary and subjective in most cases so they just check your experience against the div you want to play and that's it.

there aren't that many black and white cases where a majority would allow people in a division below without any penalty because people will constantly try to argue the validity of the admins' judgement.

"this solly got 8 airshots in this log (<a 0-3 product game on his 0-8 w/l team>) and hes allowed to play demo in low with no penalty????"[/quote]

What I should have mentioned is that they knew which classes I played in both Mid and Low, I can understand that the admins cant obviously know what classes we all play, but even after mentioning this to them they doubled down, they checked our ETF2L team page, even on there it says im the spy and I told them so directly after complaining about me being counted as a point.

I don't expect admins to know every single detail about every no name low/mid player, but if people go out of their way to present facts to admins that would nullify their complaints, shouldn't it be worth atleast something?
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