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ESEA Season 23 Whitelist
1
#1
0 Frags +

So we all know that the ESEA whitelist has not been changed in the better part of 2 years. I am suggesting that we change that and update our whitlists for next season. The ETF2L List is more or less OK, so why don't we just copy that. That way we would at least be playing with some of the same rules.

So we all know that the ESEA whitelist has not been changed in the better part of 2 years. I am suggesting that we change that and update our whitlists for next season. The ETF2L List is more or less OK, so why don't we just copy that. That way we would at least be playing with some of the same rules.
2
#2
33 Frags +

cozy camper is balanced great now, keep it unbanned

cozy camper is balanced great now, keep it unbanned
3
#3
11 Frags +

fuck the tomislav that shit is a lightning gun now that it's more accurate

edit: idk why the battallion's backups banned tho

fuck the tomislav that shit is a lightning gun now that it's more accurate

edit: idk why the battallion's backups banned tho
4
#4
11 Frags +

Imo there're a lot of weapons excluded from ESEA whitelist that aren't worth being banned at all (most of them are just bad or gimmickly so they won't cause any issues). On the other hand, Cozy Camper was allowed even before it's nerf despite being OP (completely countering one of the ways of dealing with enemy sniper). Might not be worth banning anymore, not sure.

bearodactylfuck the tomislav that shit is a lightning gun now that it's more accurate

That's been over a year btw.

Imo there're a lot of weapons excluded from ESEA whitelist that aren't worth being banned at all (most of them are just bad or gimmickly so they won't cause any issues). On the other hand, Cozy Camper was allowed even before it's nerf despite being OP (completely countering one of the ways of dealing with enemy sniper). Might not be worth banning anymore, not sure.

[quote=bearodactyl]fuck the tomislav that shit is a lightning gun [b]now[/b] that it's more accurate[/quote]
That's been over a year btw.
5
#5
4 Frags +
bearodactyledit: idk why the battallion's backups banned tho

Something about Viaduct many seasons back?

[quote=bearodactyl]edit: idk why the battallion's backups banned tho[/quote]
Something about Viaduct many seasons back?
6
#6
34 Frags +

Does iron bomber have a chance to be unbanned now?

Does iron bomber have a chance to be unbanned now?
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#7
7 Frags +

Battalions backup was actually fucking broken and you definitely don't want to play against it

Battalions backup was actually fucking broken and you definitely don't want to play against it
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#8
-12 Frags +

o yes i love the battalions backup i love when rockets do a max of 75 damage its my favorite

o yes i love the battalions backup i love when rockets do a max of 75 damage its my favorite
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#9
44 Frags +
kawaBattalions backup was actually fucking broken and you definitely don't want to play against it

If we're banning what we don't like playing against, can we ban Scout? There's nothing wrong with any of the banners right now.

Super-o yes i love the battalions backup i love when rockets do a max of 75 damage its my favorite

Yeah... Ever played against a Vaccinator?

[quote=kawa]Battalions backup was actually fucking broken and you definitely don't want to play against it[/quote]
If we're banning what we don't like playing against, can we ban Scout? There's nothing wrong with any of the banners right now.

[quote=Super-]o yes i love the battalions backup i love when rockets do a max of 75 damage its my favorite[/quote]
Yeah... Ever played against a Vaccinator?
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#10
-1 Frags +
shoraskawaBattalions backup was actually fucking broken and you definitely don't want to play against itIf we're banning what we don't like playing against, can we ban Scout? There's nothing wrong with any of the banners right now.
Super-o yes i love the battalions backup i love when rockets do a max of 75 damage its my favoriteYeah... Ever played against a Vaccinator?

Did you miss the first part of the sentence? "Battalions backup was actually fucking broken". People don't want to play against broken weapons, that's the reason a whitelist exists.

Also comparing Battalion's which you have to give up shotty or gunboats for and you can do during a stalemate with no repercussions later on isn't comparable at all to giving up Ubercharge for a chance at a desperation hold. I've never played against the Battalion's so I don't know how good it is but you made two of the most retarded arguments I've seen.

[quote=shoras][quote=kawa]Battalions backup was actually fucking broken and you definitely don't want to play against it[/quote]
If we're banning what we don't like playing against, can we ban Scout? There's nothing wrong with any of the banners right now.

[quote=Super-]o yes i love the battalions backup i love when rockets do a max of 75 damage its my favorite[/quote]
Yeah... Ever played against a Vaccinator?[/quote]


Did you miss the first part of the sentence? "Battalions backup was actually fucking broken". People don't want to play against broken weapons, that's the reason a whitelist exists.

Also comparing Battalion's which you have to give up shotty or gunboats for and you can do during a stalemate with no repercussions later on isn't comparable at all to giving up Ubercharge for a chance at a desperation hold. I've never played against the Battalion's so I don't know how good it is but you made two of the most retarded arguments I've seen.
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#11
-3 Frags +

engineer

engineer
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#12
14 Frags +

Well it's not broken anymore so I don't see the issue.
Also nothing stops you from using a banner during a stalemate when you see your enemy doing it...

Super-okay vaccinator blocks 1 form of damage on 2 people(yourself and ur target) so u can still kill a vaccinator quite easily battalions can give everyone on ur team a 35% damage reduction against all damage types that shit is gay

BB takes just 600 damage to build, literally nothing right? I can't really understand why you're all complaining about it. How often have you played against it or are least seen it being used?

Well it's not broken anymore so I don't see the issue.
Also nothing stops you from using a banner during a stalemate when you see your enemy doing it...

[quote=Super-]okay vaccinator blocks 1 form of damage on 2 people(yourself and ur target) so u can still kill a vaccinator quite easily battalions can give everyone on ur team a 35% damage reduction against all damage types that shit is gay[/quote]
BB takes just 600 damage to build, literally nothing right? I can't really understand why you're all complaining about it. How often have you played against it or are least seen it being used?
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#13
5 Frags +

The problem is, on viaduct, how are they going to build their own battalions/whatever counter you think exists if you have it already and you have the point? You can cycle battalions and ubers and they will have a very hard time breaking it.

The problem is, on viaduct, how are they going to build their own battalions/whatever counter you think exists if you have it already and you have the point? You can cycle battalions and ubers and they will have a very hard time breaking it.
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#14
7 Frags +

battalions is actually amazing and I wouldnt be surprised if it stayed banned, crit immunity, 20 extra hp, and 35% dmg reduction is op as fuck

battalions is actually amazing and I wouldnt be surprised if it stayed banned, crit immunity, 20 extra hp, and 35% dmg reduction is op as fuck
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#15
0 Frags +
bearodactyledit: idk why the battallion's backups banned tho

i really dont wanna experience playing viaduct where the enemy team's soldiers are running conch and battalion's backup while theyre holding point

[quote=bearodactyl]edit: idk why the battallion's backups banned tho[/quote]

i really dont wanna experience playing viaduct where the enemy team's soldiers are running conch and battalion's backup while theyre holding point
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#16
13 Frags +

Idea: What if we stop treating it like a whitelist and start treating it like a blacklist?

Anyway, with that in mind http://whitelist.tf/6109. I think it would do less to invite level play than most people would initially think, and having the smallest amount of weapons banned possible is always the best solution.

Maybe I'll make a rant post talking about the problem with heavy/engineer being nearly identical classes, but as the classes stand for now allowing heavy to have lunchbox items isn't a problem.

Idea: What if we stop treating it like a whitelist and start treating it like a blacklist?

Anyway, with that in mind http://whitelist.tf/6109. I think it would do less to invite level play than most people would initially think, and having the smallest amount of weapons banned possible is always the best solution.

Maybe I'll make a rant post talking about the problem with heavy/engineer being nearly identical classes, but as the classes stand for now allowing heavy to have lunchbox items isn't a problem.
17
#17
1 Frags +
saamshoraskawaBattalions backup was actually fucking broken and you definitely don't want to play against itIf we're banning what we don't like playing against, can we ban Scout? There's nothing wrong with any of the banners right now.
Super-o yes i love the battalions backup i love when rockets do a max of 75 damage its my favoriteYeah... Ever played against a Vaccinator?

Did you miss the first part of the sentence? "Battalions backup was actually fucking broken". People don't want to play against broken weapons, that's the reason a whitelist exists.

Also comparing Battalion's which you have to give up shotty or gunboats for and you can do during a stalemate with no repercussions later on isn't comparable at all to giving up Ubercharge for a chance at a desperation hold. I've never played against the Battalion's so I don't know how good it is but you made two of the most retarded arguments I've seen.

Part of the problem here is that people are evaluating individual weapons as they stand, instead of the whitelist as a whole. Is the problem with Battalion's? Or is the problem with the counters to Battalions being banned?

[quote=saam][quote=shoras][quote=kawa]Battalions backup was actually fucking broken and you definitely don't want to play against it[/quote]
If we're banning what we don't like playing against, can we ban Scout? There's nothing wrong with any of the banners right now.

[quote=Super-]o yes i love the battalions backup i love when rockets do a max of 75 damage its my favorite[/quote]
Yeah... Ever played against a Vaccinator?[/quote]


Did you miss the first part of the sentence? "Battalions backup was actually fucking broken". People don't want to play against broken weapons, that's the reason a whitelist exists.

Also comparing Battalion's which you have to give up shotty or gunboats for and you can do during a stalemate with no repercussions later on isn't comparable at all to giving up Ubercharge for a chance at a desperation hold. I've never played against the Battalion's so I don't know how good it is but you made two of the most retarded arguments I've seen.[/quote]

Part of the problem here is that people are evaluating individual weapons as they stand, instead of the whitelist as a whole. Is the problem with Battalion's? Or is the problem with the counters to Battalions being banned?
18
#18
5 Frags +
micspamIdea: What if we stop treating it like a whitelist and start treating it like a blacklist?

Anyway, with that in mind http://whitelist.tf/6109. I think it would do less to invite level play than most people would initially think, and having the smallest amount of weapons banned possible is always the best solution.

Maybe I'll make a rant post talking about the problem with heavy/engineer being nearly identical classes, but as the classes stand for now allowing heavy to have lunchbox items isn't a problem.

I agree with alot of this whitelist, but why have panic attack banned and solemn vow unbanned?

[quote=micspam]Idea: What if we stop treating it like a whitelist and start treating it like a blacklist?

Anyway, with that in mind http://whitelist.tf/6109. I think it would do less to invite level play than most people would initially think, and having the smallest amount of weapons banned possible is always the best solution.

Maybe I'll make a rant post talking about the problem with heavy/engineer being nearly identical classes, but as the classes stand for now allowing heavy to have lunchbox items isn't a problem.[/quote]

I agree with alot of this whitelist, but why have panic attack banned and solemn vow unbanned?
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#19
-5 Frags +
89zombiez
I agree with alot of this whitelist, but why have panic attack banned and solemn vow unbanned?

Because I think panic attack is *just* powerful enough that it would start crowding out other options in the secondary slot. I'm not entirely against unbanning it, I just think that its powercreep over the shotgun, whereas the reserve shooter is a different playstyle necessary to utilize the weapon to its max potential.

In the solemn vow's case, its a weapon that on a team with good communication, is literally useless, and you have to give up the ubersaw to use it anyway.

[quote=89zombiez]

I agree with alot of this whitelist, but why have panic attack banned and solemn vow unbanned?[/quote]

Because I think panic attack is *just* powerful enough that it would start crowding out other options in the secondary slot. I'm not entirely against unbanning it, I just think that its powercreep over the shotgun, whereas the reserve shooter is a different playstyle necessary to utilize the weapon to its max potential.

In the solemn vow's case, its a weapon that on a team with good communication, is literally useless, and you have to give up the ubersaw to use it anyway.
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#20
10 Frags +

Battalions backup was powerful enough to be banned before they added the +20 health. I abused the fuck out of that weapon in highlander, its ridiculously powerful.

Also most people think the panic attack is a shit weapon. If someone figures out how to use the panic attack as consistently as the shotgun, I would be shocked.

Battalions backup was powerful enough to be banned [b]before[/b] they added the +20 health. I abused the fuck out of that weapon in highlander, its ridiculously powerful.

Also most people think the panic attack is a shit weapon. If someone figures out how to use the panic attack as consistently as the shotgun, I would be shocked.
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#21
12 Frags +

the backup is allowed everywhere except in na and i dont think i've ever seen it used

both the buff banner and the conch are much better because they can be used offensively

the backup is allowed everywhere except in na and i dont think i've ever seen it used

both the buff banner and the conch are much better because they can be used offensively
22
#22
19 Frags +

This might just be my inexperience at play here, but I feel like the caber could be unbanned. To my knowledge it's not that great after the nerf a little while back, I think the explosion attack does 90ish damage and you only get to use it once unless you die or resub. Even then it's still a melee attack and on the demo at that. I personally don't see it being very broken, however this might just be me being retarded and not seeing how powerful it is or something.

This might just be my inexperience at play here, but I feel like the caber could be unbanned. To my knowledge it's not that great after the nerf a little while back, I think the explosion attack does 90ish damage and you only get to use it once unless you die or resub. Even then it's still a melee attack and on the demo at that. I personally don't see it being very broken, however this might just be me being retarded and not seeing how powerful it is or something.
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#23
-7 Frags +
ConsoleThis might just be my inexperience at play here, but I feel like the caber could be unbanned. To my knowledge it's not that great after the nerf a little while back, I think the explosion attack does 90ish damage and you only get to use it once unless you die or resub. Even then it's still a melee attack and on the demo at that. I personally don't see it being very broken, however this might just be me being retarded and not seeing how powerful it is or something.

it would be dumb to play against, if you were a scout and you died on 90 hp when the demo is on 10 hp and had no stickies or pipes loaded you would be pretty salty.

[quote=Console]This might just be my inexperience at play here, but I feel like the caber could be unbanned. To my knowledge it's not that great after the nerf a little while back, I think the explosion attack does 90ish damage and you only get to use it once unless you die or resub. Even then it's still a melee attack and on the demo at that. I personally don't see it being very broken, however this might just be me being retarded and not seeing how powerful it is or something.[/quote]
it would be dumb to play against, if you were a scout and you died on 90 hp when the demo is on 10 hp and had no stickies or pipes loaded you would be pretty salty.
24
#24
14 Frags +
ErenJayConsoleThis might just be my inexperience at play here, but I feel like the caber could be unbanned. To my knowledge it's not that great after the nerf a little while back, I think the explosion attack does 90ish damage and you only get to use it once unless you die or resub. Even then it's still a melee attack and on the demo at that. I personally don't see it being very broken, however this might just be me being retarded and not seeing how powerful it is or something.it would be dumb to play against, if you were a scout and you died on 90 hp when the demo is on 10 hp and had no stickies or pipes loaded you would be pretty salty.

How the fuck would a demo with no pipes or sickies loaded be in range of a scout who hasn't already killed him

[quote=ErenJay][quote=Console]This might just be my inexperience at play here, but I feel like the caber could be unbanned. To my knowledge it's not that great after the nerf a little while back, I think the explosion attack does 90ish damage and you only get to use it once unless you die or resub. Even then it's still a melee attack and on the demo at that. I personally don't see it being very broken, however this might just be me being retarded and not seeing how powerful it is or something.[/quote]
it would be dumb to play against, if you were a scout and you died on 90 hp when the demo is on 10 hp and had no stickies or pipes loaded you would be pretty salty.[/quote]

How the fuck would a demo with no pipes or sickies loaded be in range of a scout who hasn't already killed him
25
#25
2 Frags +

Doesn't ETF2L have a tourney were they try new items and maps? Why don't we do that.

Doesn't ETF2L have a tourney were they try new items and maps? Why don't we do that.
26
#26
17 Frags +
flufDoesn't ETF2L have a tourney were they try new items and maps? Why don't we do that.

That doesn't work if nobody tries

[quote=fluf]Doesn't ETF2L have a tourney were they try new items and maps? Why don't we do that.[/quote]
That doesn't work if nobody tries
27
#27
8 Frags +

the backup isn't broken on viaduct because you have to heal your soldier on fucking viaduct

its broken when its used like a better concheror to break stalemates because healing your soldier is what you do there anyway

the backup isn't broken on viaduct because you have to heal your soldier on fucking viaduct

its broken when its used like a better concheror to break stalemates because healing your soldier is what you do there anyway
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#28
12 Frags +
[code][/code]
29
#29
21 Frags +

The Battalion's backup was banned in the era when it built via taking damage and charged *very* quickly - you would achieve a charge far more quickly with that particular unlock than its buff banner/conch cousins. Now it's different and I feel mostly ambivalent about it.

I feel mostly ambivalent about the whitelist as it is - I don't think anything particular great would be gained by allowing any of the new items - which is why I assume nothing has changed in 2 years.

It's a shame there isn't a mechanic to *remove* items if they were found to be detrimental to the game mid-season. Then I'd be far less leery of allowing new things - mainly because I *still* feel nausea from s14 and the quick-fix.

The Battalion's backup was banned in the era when it built via taking damage and charged *very* quickly - you would achieve a charge far more quickly with that particular unlock than its buff banner/conch cousins. Now it's different and I feel mostly ambivalent about it.

I feel mostly ambivalent about the whitelist as it is - I don't think anything particular great would be gained by allowing any of the new items - which is why I assume nothing has changed in 2 years.

It's a shame there isn't a mechanic to *remove* items if they were found to be detrimental to the game mid-season. Then I'd be far less leery of allowing new things - mainly because I *still* feel nausea from s14 and the quick-fix.
30
#30
0 Frags +
MarxistI feel mostly ambivalent about the whitelist as it is - I don't think anything particular great would be gained by allowing any of the new items - which is why I assume nothing has changed in 2 years. micspamIdea: What if we stop treating it like a whitelist and start treating it like a blacklist?
[quote=Marxist]I feel mostly ambivalent about the whitelist as it is - I don't think anything particular great would be gained by allowing any of the new items - which is why I assume nothing has changed in 2 years.
[/quote]

[quote=micspam]Idea: What if we stop treating it like a whitelist and start treating it like a blacklist?
[/quote]
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