"man why is every pug on badlands"

I don't see why you'd think that, shade fits just about every criteria anyone has- played in both boomer and zoomer(ish) eras, crazy longevity, on the best team in the world

I agree as a whole, and as I've said to lots of people privately, I think too often people think the chain of causality post-mixup was everyone losing motivation -> froyo dominating, when in reality it's the other way around; froyo dominating is what LED to people losing motivation, and even if the mixup players had stuck around the balance of power was shifting pretty irrevocably. That being said, I still think it's fair to use the eye test and subjective opinion to order those froyo players/compare them against each other. For instance, duwatna generally played a more supportive role and, for my money, was probably the weakest player on i52 froyotech (not saying much because that lineup was insane but still). By contrast, habib has been, along with b4nny, THE most important player on froyo for seasons and seasons.

By that logic, I think you could see a pretty strong tier list emerging of (and this is not an exhaustive list, it's just for demonstration):

S-tier: b4nny (around for the whole shebang)
A-tier: the inner circle froyo members- clock, habib, blaze, yomps, shade, nursey, arekk, prolly lansky
B-tier: players who contributed for multiple seasons- cookiejake, duwatna, muma, paddie, freestate, skeez
C-tier: players who only briefly played for froyo- sigh, aim, botmode, TLR, mirrorman, dummy, dave__ac, corsa, ruwin, phorofor, ninjanick, decimate*

*a lot of these players will still be high up because of what they've done on other teams, just saying for froyo specifically

I think anyone in A-tier is pretty much required to be at least top 20 if not top 10 on the list given how dominant froyo has been, whereas people below that would have to have other accomplishments to reach that level.

Again, this is subjective; there are definitely people who might put duwatna higher than I do, or arekk lower, etc. I'm just showing a way you can look at this sort of thing logically; you start from the assumption that being on froyo at all is an insane achievement, and then work backwards from there based on longevity and just how central the player was to their success.

this is why I think the eye test/peak performance/how hard players carried their teams should be a major factor

with that framework, freestate being a bit lower isn't crazy, but I'd also argue someone like campy or lolguy should be a lot higher

shade, nursey, harbleu if he counts, cozen, thefragile, pyyyour off the top of my head

there may be more too idk

the only thing worse than this thread is that i kinda half got the reference

when the shitpost is 100x longer than any of its replies, the people replying are not the obsessed ones

also,

too bad shade, cookiejake, permzilla, harbleu, and possibly other people on your list did not start as medic mains

I'm sorry but, out of game stuff aside, it's a ridiculous take to leave nursey off the list of 'good' medics even if you're limiting it to that small of a pool

raymon and nursey reached a higher peak relative to their era than any other medics I've ever seen

Vhalin was already on the list

I actually think of those, cookiejake is prolly the one who should be higher imo

it's interesting because, even with the loss of the mixup guys and whatnot, NA still has a larger proportion of its best ever players playing atm, whereas EU and AU have lost a lot of them. I think THEIR boomer v zoomer debates would be even more spicy tbh

sounds like, in expecting me to hold a grudge against alfa, you have played yourself...

since the newer part dropped I might as well give my honest opinion: I would rank mr dracula in the 31-40 range if it were my list, but I wouldn't be super miffed if he were in the 21-30 range or the 41-50 range

I always thought tagg was pretty overrated so I don't mind him here, but again, not a big fan of stat accumulators > people who were absolutely tops at their class

in this case I personally think campy should be top 50, he was a monster

absolute annihilation