They travel at basically the same speed and have similar drop. Would pubbing as Rescue Ranger engineer to practice medic arrows be a good idea?

You're 100% correct that skin and other traits have zero correlation and its a justification from racists etc etc but:
saying that existing genetic traits or tendencies can't exist in populations or that skin color isn't a very visual one that can be (usually poorly) used to classify groups together is going too far to the other extreme. Genetic variation in humans is surprisingly low (~1/10th that of chimpanzees for example), but certain genetic groups do have certain genetic advantages in very specific tasks. Muscle insertions are ~80%+ genetic and 100% uncontrollable but can lead to vastly different leverages when it comes to certain athletic events. Its why Eastern Europeans and Northern Asians have an advantage in certain weightlifting sports (hip joint + muscle attachments) and why West Africans have an advantage in running sports. Its why its been a long time since a white guy was the 100m WR. So on that count, racists are right, certain populations are genetically predisposed to certain tasks. The part most of them miss is how unbelievably small these differences are. Only one white guy has broken a 10 second 100m, but a shitload can break a 10.6. Saying that race affects a ~5% (far less than a σ) difference in maximum speed among the very top individuals of a given sport or activity is fine. Saying race affects a 1-2σ in things like general intelligence when comparing the entire population is pretty suspect but could have validity with sufficient proof. Saying race affects intelligence in any meaningful way in 2016 when there have been numerous studies showing the correlation between SES vs IQ and SES vs Race, the closing of the IQ gap, and the general uptrend of IQ of all minority groups relative to the whole population goes beyond you being dumb, it shows that you're only willing to support science when it agrees with your preconceived notions.

so yeah, fuck racists i guess

EDIT: also if yr justification for being a racist is that a black guy said some dumb shit like "kill racists", you're not a very good racist since you're just falling to an equal level of stupid (at best)

tfw yr internet stops existing mid match

very good game yeah, just bummed my internet turned what could've been a 3 or 4-5 match into a much shorter one.

Pagoda is fun except for like 3 jumps but all 3 are just so AIDS they make the map not fun

saving invite killin livers

Lowering a skill ceiling doesn't mean that the game is worse because of it. As an abstract example: if a sniper who maintained 100% HS accuracy for 25 shots was immediately kicked by the server, the skill ceiling would be lowered, but it could be a good change because it would only affect hackers. Some of these changes might make the game easier to learn and therefore less skill indexed, but you have to consider 1.) do you want TF2 to be based on who's memorized the most obscure gameplay features and 2.) would you sacrifice a bit of the skill ceiling in an attempt to draw more players into the game?

dom_canalzone failed partially because the gamemode wasn't amazing but also because the map itself was way too big, way too confusing, and way too weird to really work. Even with 18 players you could go >30 seconds as a flank class without seeing anyone, and most caps would go uncontested. It misses the benefit of a 3 Dom style: nearly constant fighting.

CTF doesn't work in TF2 because no one's made a CTF map since 2009 and TF2 doesn't have touch flag return. The maps are shit and its hard to make good ones because the gamem mode wont let you play CTF in the best competitive way. Touch return lets playing aggressive and chasing the flag carrier be a better option than turtling and preventing your flag from leaving your base.

mild shitpost sorry, but someone mentioned pub players being unable to understand that mid caps slower than other points and I wanted to make a nerd post:

there's a lot of shit in tf2 that is horribly unintuitive or awkward, especially in a competitive format, so in the interest of making the game easier to understand and learn (in the interest of making MM more successful), here's a list of a relatively simple changes that I think could benefit the game in this regard. Most of them are HUD related in some way, because I think the TF2 HUD wasn't designed with all the unlocks in mind and it really shows. Some of the changes would also be most useful when looking at POVs or streams when being able to tell at a glance what loadout is used can be helpful. Most wouldnt be useful to the average Open player but w/e, I think this is something the comp community should be emphasizing the importance of to valve.

General:

• Make it more obvious if an enemy has a passive buff or debuff item equipped. Natascha, Danger Shield, etc should have like a sound when your damage is nerfed against them to make it more apparent that you're getting gayed by an unlock.
  
• Make the Escape Plan / Shahanshah have a HUD element that reminds bad players that they work better at low health. Arrows or Crosshairs that go like >/+ for a small bonus but go >>>/+++ for a big bonus might be cool idk. GRU/Eviction Notice/Whip should have the same I guess, and the Skullcutter should get negative arrows
  
• Make Gunboats / Booties / Other passive items apparent in the POV in some way. Don't really know a not stupid way to do that but maybe removing voice lines from jumping and changing the damage indicator color or smthn. Would just be sorta nice to be able to tell when you're watching a stream or cast. Someone is going to call this a retarded change but I'm going to stand by it because being able to read the game from a screenshot should be the ideal here imo

Demo:

• Make it more apparent that stickies are being destroyed on the HUD. If a sticky gets destroyed, the indicator should flash red or something

Medic:

• 1. should be more clear in some way. I'd prefer players you've healed recently have the glow outline but just making this element a little easier to follow in some way would be cool. Class icon on top of it or smth would be easyish to do.
  
• 2. Put an indicator for heal speed here. Like a little health cross with fast arrows coming out whenever crit heals are active, and a regular health cross when they're not.[/url]
  
• 3. the autoheal indicators need to be on by default, and maybe be more informative. If someone wouldn't mind implementing ~3 new textures, different crosses would be cool. White ones for anyone under the threshold, red for <25% patients, speed arrows if someone has crit heals or something.
  
• 4. This already has some context sensitivity in the form of turning red or fiery when low health or burning, but adding speedy cross or w/e to emphasize crit heals could help
  
• 5. Make the ammo indicator for the patient have some sort of context colors for low ammo. Even people who aren't terrible can start tuning it out and not notice their patient is low
  
• 6. Make some part of the HUD actually say what medigun is being used (by default). Most pubbies use viewmodels but it'd be such a simple change and could stop horrible accidents

MM HUD:

• 1. Remove cosmetic portions of the HUD where applicable. Knowing your killstreak isn't very useful in competitive and the default HUD gives way too much space to this element
  
• 2. If a player isnt using the model thing, their class should only be shown at the top. Realistically it should just show the class model thing at the top for every player, but w/e. Removing this makes the HUD a lot cleaner and the information is shown twice right now[/url]
  
• 3. The Upper player row should highlight you, and be ordered in some way. Best would be to make it static so the first player to join is most left or w/e. Just makes it easier to keep an idea of who's playing what without reiterating the information somehow or necessitating opening the scoreboard. This hud element is actually very well done imo. Only thing it could use would be a CS style mini mode where it just counts the number of living players per team.
  
• 4. Try to indicate in some way how fast points cap. Right now, there's no real indicator that gully mid and second cap at the same rate, or that badlands last caps so fast. I can't think of a good way to do this though tbh. Making the boxes true to size would look awkward af but making it obvious to the audience/player that different points cap at different speeds is important in explaining why people do certain things.
  5. Spawns. If you're eligible for a spawn cycle it should be kinda clear. So many new players have no idea that switching spawns is a thing but its hella important in 6s and even a little green door on the HUD that might help get them in the right direction would be a big help imo.

There's a lot of other things that could be more readable in TF2 (my actual list is ~3x as long as this one) but this is mostly stuff that's either recurrently unnoticed in MM and lobbies or shit that I don't notice when I'm watching a stream. Thanks :)

it would take 8:20 to hit the mercy rule score with 2 points, 5:30 with 3. You're looking at ~3-4 minutes of most open matches being spawn camps which isn't very exciting. It seems like it'd be fun for close games, but any game that isn't close will just be boring or frustrating, and around halfway through the other team will have such a big point advantage that you'll be able to call the map.

i have a tf2 face tattoo

r u implying u have to be smart to be good at tf2? Its not like its a game that benefits people who are smart in a real world sense

So outside of anecdotes I guess this is the best answer anyone is going to be able to provide, but it still feels kinda inconclusive imo. I don't think you can really call someone who has no understanding of TF2 a good TF2 player for example. Even the people named in the thread as examples of not really studying still put some time into reviewing their gameplay and I don't know that people regard yomps and yz50 as tf2 masterminds. On the other end you have players that are strong casters and have a good understanding of tf2 (especially as spectators) but have little practical ability and struggle to work their understanding into the game. You could conclude that understanding TF2 doesn't confer the ability to play it, but could players that focused only on playing have learned more by doing outside study or did they develop a strong understanding of TF2 only by playing it? Are there parts of TF2 that you can't understand in game and require a spectators POV?

I thought it was an interesting question but no one cared i guess rip or maybe i was just bad at asking it.

that isn't cringe, the anti heavy circlejerk is cringier than the people who defend heavy

yre closer but not really because like the question wasn't "can you improve without playing tf2" but was more "can you improve to a high level without answering the previous question"

Is it feasible for a player to be a high level player while only practicing TF2 by playing it? Can you actually MGE or pug your way into invite? Can you see your flaws well enough in game that reviewing demos isn't necessary?

i dont mean to be rude

but none of you understood (or read) my op or something

if you're not in invite I don't think you're really qualified to answer this question and I'd prefer if you don't respond, thanks!