Potentially you could artificially lower the elo of lower-playtime players? That way they can still play but the system will treat them differently when balancing teams and if they're good (ie if theyre an alt/new acc for an experienced player) they'll just make the elo back.

(Also do u guys intend to support koth in the future?)

Sorry, TF2Maps was having issues today, it should work again now.

Forward holds have, in theory, been improved since sigafoo cup.

Part of the reason I made bagel was cause I'd love to see more koth maps in the rotation alongside viaduct, especially since a lot of teams just don't bother learning to play koth since theres only one in the pool.

ftr alloy was designed around a quirk that makes it real iffy for comp + I balanced it around pubs so lmao

B4 - Feedback from cups/pugs
Download: koth_bagel_b4

First, thank you so much to ozFortess, ETF2L and various pug groups for playing this map, I got so much feedback and got to watch lots of matches and it has given me tons to work with!

I've made a few changes based on what you've said and what I've seen and hopefully they improve the way the map plays.

Lobby exists the way it does to allow fighting to move forward, but it was tight and not so fun to play in, so I've raised the ceilings and widened the window to make it less claustrophobic and help promote options for forward holds.

A lot of people found the lower point area kind of unsafe to be on and transitioning from there to the safer high ground in house was pretty long-winded, so I've made some changes to some of the quicker routes up to make them easier.

I've also made various visual tweaks and quality-of-life improvements in various spots such as adding some high ground to a couple flat areas, simplifying the trash in lobby, and making the rafters over point more obviously solid.

Less claustrophobic lobby, simplified trash
Improved routes to house, solid rafters

Changelog:
Lobby
- Raised ceiling, simplified walkways
- Simplified and moved trash
- Widened window
- Various detailing tweaks

Mid
- Added extra box to pile on far left side of hill
- Moved barrels to better facilitate climbing into house
- Widened and simplified the small shed
- Added metal sheets and wood shelf to rafters to visualise solidity
- Added small boxes to house to stand on
- Various detailing tweaks

Screenshots:

Thanks for the feedback!

I'll get looking into what I can do with lobby and put out another update when I get the feedback from etf2l. :D

Thanks :)

That spot used to be a big chunky wall before there was detailing, would probably be a pretty dumb spot if you could actually get up there.
I'll try and make it more obviously off-limits in future.

B3A - Quick FPS Fix
Download: koth_bagel_b3a

- Determined crows were source of random fps drops for some people, removed for now

B3 - Visual/Optimisation Update
Download: koth_bagel_b3

- Includes map changes from "e1" version
- Various visual improvements
- Better marked capzone (improved cap trigger bounds subtly)
- Simplified long staircase into a ramp and removed a jutting wall
- Lighting improvements on the mid point
- Improved rendering around the map to hopefully raise fps
- Added fade distances to a lot of props
- Crow Improvements

Gameplay changes will come later with feedback from ozfortress's Midsummer Night's Cup and other sources.

Screenshots:

No they didn't, the people who made those things did.

"Yo Skrillex drop it hard"

lastinv closes it, so bind something to that

Thank you so much to ozfortress, murphy's law means there's yet to be a streamed game on it but your feedback will still be really useful.

(If you can determine if it's the map itself crashing people please do tell me so I can try and fix it!)

thats great to hear, excited to see what comes of it :D

always nice to see new maps being tried out, i hope i can get bagel considered for one of these eventually