This pug never started due to a bug, and never ended: https://eu.pug.champ.gg/game/5919ddf9399e99a06d132daa

1. Anecdotal evidence
2. Sure, if you put yourself in a position where you somehow get juggled into a lamp, it is your own fault, however, why should we punish standing in these crammed rooms even further than they already are? By making pinpoint button-presses and taking the time to choose which pixel we stand on, we get distracted from the actual game. It is more enjoyable to not have to worry as much about getting stuck on a lamp or a metal beam.
3. An opponent getting stuck on a lamp or sometimes strafing into one can make you miss shots you otherwise would have hit, essentially punishing the player for not taking a tiny lamp in the roof into account while aiming.
4. "Ceiling is low, therefore it should be even lower" is not what I consider a valid argument.

You don't really need to play my new version to make an argument for removing them.

- The lamps (except one) are never used because it is very easy to spot players standing on them, so they are not good hiding spots.

- They interfere with gameplay, if you double jump or get bounced upwards by a rocket or a sticky, you may get stuck. Some small rocket jumps are impossible, and a neat jump for rolling out is now possible.

- They were never intended to be hiding spots. As we know valve doesn't polish maps to perfection, and often don't apply gameplay to their mapmaking.

- I fixed the one hiding spot that existed by making it slightly worse and made it into an actual gameplay mechanic, not a secret spot only pro players know.

It would be more constructive if you made an argument rather than just stating your opinion.

Nobody uses the other lamps though, and in dm fights you get caught on them a lot.

I'm not removing every other spot...? Just one.

On paper, that's true, but I don't think it's reasonable to argue that I've done too many changes as of right now.

EDIT: Which is why I won't make any more changes (unless they're bug fixes) until I get proper feedback.

For the record, I eliminated one hiding spot and added one prop, it's not a huge change.

I knew this was coming so I put this in one of the first lines of the thread:

But yeah, what Chronix said.

Quick update! Thanks to everyone who helped me with bugs!

(Dropbox) Download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jhgf17o6td7dont/cp_prolands_b1b.bsp?dl=0

cp_prolands_b1a -> cp_prolands_b1b

SMOOTHING/FIXING SPLASH:
- Made vents in lobby and last nonsolid.
- Made smoother clipping in balcony next to the crates.

BUG FIX:
- Fixed the shutter doors.
- Fixed gap in the wall allowing you to see into main from top right last.
- Fixed rooves I didn’t do properly.

Not gonna consider removing the scout winger jump from trash until I get more feedback on both it & the new opening itself.

I already did this.

You mean blue choke? I'm on it b0ss.

Made it into a single platform due to the hole eating rockets a percentage of the time. That sticky trap seems like an unintended feature as well, but I don't know.

I knew of that spot, Bear said it was above diagonal not resup, which confused me.

My philosophy is making them into gameplay elements rather than bugs. This also makes it easier for new players to learn about them.

It was not the intention of the change, but rather a consequence.
If people like it I can keep it, if not I can remove it.

Full Changelog:

In a not-so-recent thread people discussed changes they would like to see to cp_badlands. I went ahead and worked on some changes, most of them are just fixes and smoothing out gameplay, but some are requested features like more ammo.

If you have feedback, don’t be afraid to post it. A lot of changes can be patched up fairly quickly, meaning that trying a feature out doesn’t necessarily make it permanent.

(Dropbox) Relevant downloads:

rc1 = 2 second cap and old control point
rc2t (& rc2p) = 1 second cap and old control point ( = 2 second cap and new control point)
rc2ta

CHANGELOG TL;DR:
- Easier to push out due to new spawn times
- Explosions get eaten by the environment less
- Changed some unintentional hiding spots
- Made transitions between top lobby and last more open
- Trying to make movement more fluid with clipped walls and higher rooves.
- Changed how the last point looks (rc2p)

THINGS TO BE DONE/CURRENTLY CONSIDERING:
- Refining spawn timers even more when attacking last.

LINK TO THE VMF FILES (REFRESH PROJECT)
https://github.com/tom288/Refresh

STEAM WORKSHOP LINK:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1134385764

FULL CHANGELOG:
http://www.teamfortress.tv/41308/cp-prolands#12

Also, strawpoll on what to do with roof in last: http://www.strawpoll.me/12961714

EDIT:
Also, updated notes:
cp_badlands -> cp_prolands_b1

AMMO/HEALTH CHANGES:
-Changed haunter ammokits to from small to medium
-Added small ammokit on balcony
-Removed small ammokit in top lobby.
-Changed the other small ammokit in top lobby to medium. (Small ammo is 20%, 20+20=40, medium ammo is 50%, so this is technically an increase in ammo)
-Added a medium ammo kit right below the bridge on mid. I didn’t want to change the ammokits above to medium because that would give engies too much metal.

SMOOTHING/FIXING SPLASH:
-Added proper blockbullets in choke (you can now do the ramp slide) & stonebridge.
-Made trains nonsolid and created proper blockbullets.
-Removed the hole between planks on spire, blockbulleted the fence and made it nonsolid. Plank is slightly resized.
-Properly blockbulleted boxes on balcony
-Blockbulleted inside the shithouse.
-Blockbulleted the floor which dips down slightly on last point.
-Blockbulleted the main bridge on mid.
-Blockbulleted the bottom parts of exterior house walls, so they eat fewer rockets.
-Blockbulleted the floor behind last point.
-Clipped away a spot on the spire you could stand on thin air.
-Mirrored clipping on a fence you could stand on in a chokepoint
-Mirrored clipping in house, as well as clipped the roof. As a consequence you can no longer stand on top of the bullskull.
-Smoothed out clipping and moving around in choke.
-Fences in lobby and last are now nonsolid but clipped.
-Adjusted clipping above launch pad slightly.
-Lamps and metal beams in lobby, shithouse and house are now nonsolid, except for the lamp above last point. The lamp commonly used for backcaps in lobby is not a hiding spot anymore. However, I added a more obvious to the eye, spot you can stand on, which is easier for the defending team to check.
-Smoothed wooden bridge on mid slightly.
-Removed the huge shit attached to the resup house & above haunter. Should make rocket jumping off the wall easier.
-Making the leaves of rooves nonsolid, in order to allow rocket jumps.
-Removed the attached piece of house above diagonal.
-Changed a barrel model next to stonebridge - Also mirrored this
-Removed metal near stonebridge/haunter.
-Explosions don’t get eaten by the crates on the trains anymore. I tried to visualize this.
-Patched up roof on last and lobby to make it more smooth gameplay wise. If anyone wants the vents and shit completely removed instead, I can easily arrange this as well.

GAMEPLAY CHANGES:
-Removed hiding spot behind the fence on balcony, due to it only being clearable from dropdown.
-Buffed a hiding spot outside of balcony, which is considerably more difficult to use than the one removed.
-Added a tire to balcony, behind the fence. You can now jump to spire as scout without using the winger or the boston basher. Not a huge change but it may improve accessibility to the spire ever so slightly.
-Didn’t make skybox bigger, but removed wierd clipping in the ceiling that restricted vertical player movement.
-

I made this change, in a slightly different way.
-Removed tiny metal railings at floor level on balcony, next to the crates.
-The hiding spot in house, is now changed, but visual clues make it consistent with how the rest of the interior looks.

GAME LOGIC:
-Decreased spire cap time from 8 to 7 seconds
-The team attacking spire on other side if the map now has 3 seconds longer respawn than they used to. The opposite team has 2 seconds shorter respawn time. This makes their respawn timers equal, at -2.