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Question for ESEA
1
#1
-19 Frags +

Why not have highlander ESEA, at least just to test it out?

Incoming wall of text. Skip to TL;DR if you would prefer, but please read it if you want to make a serious response :)

Reasons for:

1. $$$:
ESEA gets lots of money for premium and league fees, just like 6s. This could also be even more profitable than 6s because the relative price of slots in an 18 slot server should be lower than the relative price of slots on a 12 slot server (I don't know a whole lot about servers so correct me if this is wrong). Also more paid backups to add to that effect. Even if neither of these effects matters, HL would simply be more people paying into ESEA.

2. 6s:
A fully legitimized league with defined rules and a consistent map/ban list (and no retarded summer seasons) would be incredibly popular, especially given the relative amounts of complaint against ESEA vs against UGC. Becoming a part of ESEA at the highlander level would doubtless increase the size of 6s as a whole, because that step into ESEA 6v6 would be helped by a familiarity with the league itself (client, administration, policies, etc.).

3. Comp TF2 and Valve:
Valve makes distinctly more effort to support HL than 6s. Highlander seasons are announced on tf2.com, medals are incorporated into the actual game, etc. In order to have competitive TF2 continue to expand (and more importantly for the rate of that expansion to increase) HL is vital because it is a much easier transition from pubs.

Responses to reasons against:

1. We can't have a LAN!!!
Thats ok!!! There is no need for a LAN right at the start. Open and IM 6s are perfectly fine divisions that are entirely online. Even if there is only 1 or 2 div(s) for highlander at the start, HL can compete in a fully online setting until such time that ESEA sees fit to institute a LAN. Given that HL has gone so long as a fully online format, a LAN would not be expected or even desired by most players.

2. It will kill UGC
UGC still has 6s, despite the fact that ESEA is universally regarded as a more legitimate/higher skill 6v6 league. UGC 6s functions as a stepping stone toward ESEA, and that is how UGC will begin to function in regards to highlander should ESEA pick HL up. While the top HL teams will probably swap into ESEA and the platinum division may die (at least as it is known currently), new teams will spring up to fill the void and platinum HL will become closer to the skill of platinum 6v6.

EDIT: Oops, TL;DR: ESEA should pick up highlander, at least experimentally. Should be profitable for ESEA as well as beneficial to legitimizing tf2 comp.

Why not have highlander ESEA, at least just to test it out?

Incoming wall of text. Skip to TL;DR if you would prefer, but please read it if you want to make a serious response :)

Reasons for:

1. $$$:
ESEA gets lots of money for premium and league fees, just like 6s. This could also be even more profitable than 6s because the relative price of slots in an 18 slot server should be lower than the relative price of slots on a 12 slot server (I don't know a whole lot about servers so correct me if this is wrong). Also more paid backups to add to that effect. Even if neither of these effects matters, HL would simply be more people paying into ESEA.

2. 6s:
A fully legitimized league with defined rules and a consistent map/ban list (and no retarded summer seasons) would be incredibly popular, especially given the relative amounts of complaint against ESEA vs against UGC. Becoming a part of ESEA at the highlander level would doubtless increase the size of 6s as a whole, because that step into ESEA 6v6 would be helped by a familiarity with the league itself (client, administration, policies, etc.).

3. Comp TF2 and Valve:
Valve makes distinctly more effort to support HL than 6s. Highlander seasons are announced on tf2.com, medals are incorporated into the actual game, etc. In order to have competitive TF2 continue to expand (and more importantly for the rate of that expansion to increase) HL is vital because it is a much easier transition from pubs.

Responses to reasons against:

1. We can't have a LAN!!!
Thats ok!!! There is no need for a LAN right at the start. Open and IM 6s are perfectly fine divisions that are entirely online. Even if there is only 1 or 2 div(s) for highlander at the start, HL can compete in a fully online setting until such time that ESEA sees fit to institute a LAN. Given that HL has gone so long as a fully online format, a LAN would not be expected or even desired by most players.

2. It will kill UGC
UGC still has 6s, despite the fact that ESEA is universally regarded as a more legitimate/higher skill 6v6 league. UGC 6s functions as a stepping stone toward ESEA, and that is how UGC will begin to function in regards to highlander should ESEA pick HL up. While the top HL teams will probably swap into ESEA and the platinum division may die (at least as it is known currently), new teams will spring up to fill the void and platinum HL will become closer to the skill of platinum 6v6.

EDIT: Oops, TL;DR: ESEA should pick up highlander, at least experimentally. Should be profitable for ESEA as well as beneficial to legitimizing tf2 comp.
2
#2
2 Frags +

let ugc do the highlander stuff

let ugc do the highlander stuff
3
#3
5 Frags +

I want to say Kalkin/Killing looked into and determined there wasn't enough interest since people would rather play in UGC for free.

I want to say Kalkin/Killing looked into and determined there wasn't enough interest since people would rather play in UGC for free.
4
#4
4 Frags +

yeah the plat hl teams definitely wouldnt switch over

yeah the plat hl teams definitely wouldnt switch over
5
#5
23 Frags +

highlander has too many casual players who would never be willing to pay the $25+ per season to play in ESEA

highlander has too many casual players who would never be willing to pay the $25+ per season to play in ESEA
6
#6
1 Frags +

no

no
7
#7
1 Frags +

The biggest problem I see with it is that only some plat and some Gold teams would even attempt it and that is only if they still get a prize at the end and the medals that valve gives after each season.

If the prem from 6's also transfers over to highlander then I don't think it would be that huge of a income increase unless players would have to pay for highlander and 6's separately which means I certainly would not be playing ESEA highlander. Seeing as most plat and gold teams have ESEA players in them if they would have to pay separately for highlander then no way that is happening and if they don't have to pay separately then I can only see ESEA losing money.

Also if a team wins and there is a cash prize each player will win less money so it would only make sense to have 12 or fewer people on your team with 9 starters and 3 back ups max.

The only way I can see this working is if ESEA can also get Euro teams in the same league which means matches with people having 360 ping while the other team has 30 ping. There would be more money, more teams, and more lag.

It just wouldn't work out, sorry mate.

The biggest problem I see with it is that only some plat and some Gold teams would even attempt it and that is only if they still get a prize at the end and the medals that valve gives after each season.

If the prem from 6's also transfers over to highlander then I don't think it would be that huge of a income increase unless players would have to pay for highlander and 6's separately which means I certainly would not be playing ESEA highlander. Seeing as most plat and gold teams have ESEA players in them if they would have to pay separately for highlander then no way that is happening and if they don't have to pay separately then I can only see ESEA losing money.

Also if a team wins and there is a cash prize each player will win less money so it would only make sense to have 12 or fewer people on your team with 9 starters and 3 back ups max.

The only way I can see this working is if ESEA can also get Euro teams in the same league which means matches with people having 360 ping while the other team has 30 ping. There would be more money, more teams, and more lag.

It just wouldn't work out, sorry mate.
8
#8
0 Frags +

That makes sense. Fuckin geography :0

Also I assume that HL would require its own league fees, but premium would certainly transfer over because premium even transfers between games (I play cs go pugs sometimes)

That makes sense. Fuckin geography :0

Also I assume that HL would require its own league fees, but premium would certainly transfer over because premium even transfers between games (I play cs go pugs sometimes)
9
#9
-5 Frags +

im pretty sure the higher level , committed teams would bite.

im pretty sure the higher level , committed teams would bite.
10
#10
-4 Frags +

esea doesn't read these forums

only two or three people work for esea and browse here, but they can't really implement any of these ideas, so why not ask on the esea forums ?_?

esea doesn't read these forums

only two or three people work for esea and browse here, but they can't really implement any of these ideas, so why not ask on the esea forums ?_?
11
#11
2 Frags +
djchighlander has too many casual players who would never be willing to pay the $25+ per season to play in ESEA

This. I enjoy highlander a lot, but I wouldn't pay for it. I am willing to pay for 6s because there is a lot more time and effort put into it by all the players, so it is a lot more rewarding. And even if I'm only in open or IM, I at least have the potential to eventually make invite and go to LAN. I'm all in favor of another league picking up highlander (CEVO?!), but I don't think it would work well with ESEA.

[quote=djc]highlander has too many casual players who would never be willing to pay the $25+ per season to play in ESEA[/quote]

This. I enjoy highlander a lot, but I wouldn't pay for it. I am willing to pay for 6s because there is a lot more time and effort put into it by all the players, so it is a lot more rewarding. And even if I'm only in open or IM, I at least have the potential to eventually make invite and go to LAN. I'm all in favor of another league picking up highlander (CEVO?!), but I don't think it would work well with ESEA.
12
#12
-2 Frags +

No one is going to pay to play highlander, the vast majority of ESEA 6s players that play HL to begin with see it as a joke and they form the majority of top HL teams as well.

No one is going to pay to play highlander, the vast majority of ESEA 6s players that play HL to begin with see it as a joke and they form the majority of top HL teams as well.
13
#13
0 Frags +

Getting 6 to lan is already hard. Imagine increasing the costs by 50%.

Most competitive video games have only 5 player teams because it's so much easier get people to lan that way without lowering the quality of the game. 9 people would be almost impossible.

And sharing $1000 of prizes between is 9 people isn't worth the time and effort to play in a p2p league.

Getting 6 to lan is already hard. Imagine increasing the costs by 50%.

Most competitive video games have only 5 player teams because it's so much easier get people to lan that way without lowering the quality of the game. 9 people would be almost impossible.

And sharing $1000 of prizes between is 9 people isn't worth the time and effort to play in a p2p league.
14
#14
0 Frags +
PlayItLoudMost competitive video games have only 5 player teams because it's so much easier get people to lan

that isn't the reason at all

[quote=PlayItLoud]
Most competitive video games have only 5 player teams because it's so much easier get people to lan [/quote]

that isn't the reason at all
15
#15
0 Frags +
PlayItLoudMost competitive video games have only 5 player teams because it's so much easier get people to lan that way without lowering the quality of the game. 9 people would be almost impossible.

You mean like Dota and LoL?
that's because the teams are 5 people, like the game wants it to be.

[quote=PlayItLoud]
Most competitive video games have only 5 player teams because it's so much easier get people to lan that way without lowering the quality of the game. 9 people would be almost impossible.
[/quote]
You mean like Dota and LoL?
that's because the teams are 5 people, like the game wants it to be.
16
#16
0 Frags +

nope

nope
17
#17
11 Frags +

I pretty much have to echo what has already been said in this thread. From the research I've done, not enough HL teams would be willing to pay to play. Unless there's a high demand for it, we won't be venturing into HL for now.

I pretty much have to echo what has already been said in this thread. From the research I've done, not enough HL teams would be willing to pay to play. Unless there's a high demand for it, we won't be venturing into HL for now.
18
#18
16 Frags +

Highlander is horrible.

Highlander is horrible.
19
#19
0 Frags +
crumpetPlayItLoudMost competitive video games have only 5 player teams because it's so much easier get people to lan
that isn't the reason at all

false, as you know when ice frog made the mod DOTA in WC3 he thought "each side should have 5 players this way in the near distant future when valve picks up dota2 and riot steals my idea for a game they can have 5 players on each team for their lans"

[quote=crumpet][quote=PlayItLoud]
Most competitive video games have only 5 player teams because it's so much easier get people to lan [/quote]

that isn't the reason at all[/quote]
false, as you know when ice frog made the mod DOTA in WC3 he thought "each side should have 5 players this way in the near distant future when valve picks up dota2 and riot steals my idea for a game they can have 5 players on each team for their lans"
20
#20
-2 Frags +
defiancewhen ice frog made the mod DOTA in WC3

http://i.imgur.com/Wkzrk0V.jpg

[quote=defiance]when ice frog made the mod DOTA in WC3[/quote]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Wkzrk0V.jpg[/IMG]
21
#21
3 Frags +

where the fuck are you

where the fuck are you
22
#22
7 Frags +

I thought highlander would be a laugh but it's not even that. Horrible stuff.

I thought highlander would be a laugh but it's not even that. Horrible stuff.
23
#23
0 Frags +

Speaking as a random UGC player, why would I switch over? This isn't like ESEA 6s where I'd paying for much better competition and a higher skill level. I'd be paying for a slight chance of a prize pool which I'm probably not getting. Why not just play the exact same teams in UGC?

Speaking as a random UGC player, why would I switch over? This isn't like ESEA 6s where I'd paying for much better competition and a higher skill level. I'd be paying for a slight chance of a prize pool which I'm probably not getting. Why not just play the exact same teams in UGC?
24
#24
3 Frags +

Highlander isn't even that bad. A lot of people get a bad impression of highlander because there are not enough top teams. I believe the players that call highlander bad have really only interacted with the steel players who were just casual pubbers not long ago. The steel or iron or plastic players are obviously not very coordinated. I can say from experience that playing on a top plat team feels like im playing on an open team. Theres a lot of scrims, strat talking, and map overviews. The big problem with doing ESEA HL is that there is simply not enough top plat teams. In my opinion, the only players that would pay are the ones on the top 5 teams in plat because, like i said, they actually scrim, practice, and care about competing like an open team. The rest of the players are just casual gamers who decided to try out competitive. It could possibly happen in the future but there would have to be a sudden increase of players who want to get better and want to commit to being a top team or more players from top 6s transfer over to hl and make their own teams.

Highlander isn't even that bad. A lot of people get a bad impression of highlander because there are not enough top teams. I believe the players that call highlander bad have really only interacted with the steel players who were just casual pubbers not long ago. The steel or iron or plastic players are obviously not very coordinated. I can say from experience that playing on a top plat team feels like im playing on an open team. Theres a lot of scrims, strat talking, and map overviews. The big problem with doing ESEA HL is that there is simply not enough top plat teams. In my opinion, the only players that would pay are the ones on the top 5 teams in plat because, like i said, they actually scrim, practice, and care about competing like an open team. The rest of the players are just casual gamers who decided to try out competitive. It could possibly happen in the future but there would have to be a sudden increase of players who want to get better and want to commit to being a top team or more players from top 6s transfer over to hl and make their own teams.
25
#25
7 Frags +
cozenHighlander isn't even that bad. A lot of people get a bad impression of highlander because there are not enough top teams. I believe the players that call highlander bad have really only interacted with the steel players who were just casual pubbers not long ago. The steel or iron or plastic players are obviously not very coordinated. I can say from experience that playing on a top plat team feels like im playing on an open team. Theres a lot of scrims, strat talking, and map overviews. The big problem with doing ESEA HL is that there is simply not enough top plat teams. In my opinion, the only players that would pay are the ones on the top 5 teams in plat because, like i said, they actually scrim, practice, and care about competing like an open team. The rest of the players are just casual gamers who decided to try out competitive. It could possibly happen in the future but there would have to be a sudden increase of players who want to get better and want to commit to being a top team or more players from top 6s transfer over to hl and make their own teams.

dont kid yourself, top 6s players dont like playing highlander because of the format- not because of the league

[quote=cozen]Highlander isn't even that bad. A lot of people get a bad impression of highlander because there are not enough top teams. I believe the players that call highlander bad have really only interacted with the steel players who were just casual pubbers not long ago. The steel or iron or plastic players are obviously not very coordinated. I can say from experience that playing on a top plat team feels like im playing on an open team. Theres a lot of scrims, strat talking, and map overviews. The big problem with doing ESEA HL is that there is simply not enough top plat teams. In my opinion, the only players that would pay are the ones on the top 5 teams in plat because, like i said, they actually scrim, practice, and care about competing like an open team. The rest of the players are just casual gamers who decided to try out competitive. It could possibly happen in the future but there would have to be a sudden increase of players who want to get better and want to commit to being a top team or more players from top 6s transfer over to hl and make their own teams.[/quote]

dont kid yourself, top 6s players dont like playing highlander because of the format- not because of the league
26
#26
2 Frags +

How about you actually show up and play for your own HL team instead of worrying about this kind of stuff?

How about you actually show up and play for your own HL team instead of worrying about this kind of stuff?
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