as a few people might remember i used to run the newbie mix group a long time ago. due to the size of the group at the time and a few differences in the way it operates, i felt that new players learned more from the pugs and that it was more fun both for them and the coaches to participate. some people may disagree with that, and that's ok with me. realistically though, this is unsustainable at a larger scale
now that i have more free time and i can moderately tolerate playing tf2, i've decided to create a new group for running pugs the way i used to. think of it as a small-scale alternative to newbie mix
details:
- i will try to have at least two semi-experienced players on each team, preferably more if possible. hopefully this will mean that the pugs more closely resemble actual competitive team play
- the experienced players will be people i trust to give decent advice and not join just to crush noobs. the benefits of this are self-explanatory
- i will only run one pug at a time. this does mean that only a handful of new players will get to play, but anything more is too much for me to handle on my own
- i have absolute power. this means i can ban anyone if i don't like the look of them. if someone is disruptive, they will be whisked way into the night never to be seen again at a moment's notice. if someone fails to communicate at a reasonable level, i probably won't ask them to play again unless they express remorse. some people may not like this, but i'm not concerned with winning over the hearts and minds of everyone in the community
- i will avoid using group announcements or events. instead, i will try to message players in the group individually asking if they they want to play. this means if you decide to join the group, you won't ever suffer the pain of being spammed by repeated announcements.
- there is no schedule. if i feel like brushing my hair instead of running a pug, my hair will be brushed. if i can't get enough washed-up players ahead of time, no one in the group will be messaged. this means you won't be dragged into a mumble waiting an hour for coaches for a garbage pug where sigma singlehandedly crushes your team. and yes, sigma, you will participate or as your son i will disown you
so if this sounds like something you would be interested in, join the group. i can't see much downside, unless you're frightened of occasionally being messaged out of the blue by me. i might never even run a single pug, and in a few months you'll leave the group thinking, "well, that's another in the long line of failures that is pet's tf2 career"
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/NOOBPUGS
as a few people might remember i used to run the newbie mix group a long time ago. due to the size of the group at the time and a few differences in the way it operates, i felt that new players learned more from the pugs and that it was more fun both for them and the coaches to participate. some people may disagree with that, and that's ok with me. realistically though, this is unsustainable at a larger scale
now that i have more free time and i can moderately tolerate playing tf2, i've decided to create a new group for running pugs the way i used to. think of it as a small-scale alternative to newbie mix
details:
- i will try to have at least two semi-experienced players on each team, preferably more if possible. hopefully this will mean that the pugs more closely resemble actual competitive team play
- the experienced players will be people i trust to give decent advice and not join just to crush noobs. the benefits of this are self-explanatory
- i will only run one pug at a time. this does mean that only a handful of new players will get to play, but anything more is too much for me to handle on my own
- i have absolute power. this means i can ban anyone if i don't like the look of them. if someone is disruptive, they will be whisked way into the night never to be seen again at a moment's notice. if someone fails to communicate at a reasonable level, i probably won't ask them to play again unless they express remorse. some people may not like this, but i'm not concerned with winning over the hearts and minds of everyone in the community
- i will avoid using group announcements or events. instead, i will try to message players in the group individually asking if they they want to play. this means if you decide to join the group, you won't ever suffer the pain of being spammed by repeated announcements.
- there is no schedule. if i feel like brushing my hair instead of running a pug, my hair will be brushed. if i can't get enough washed-up players ahead of time, no one in the group will be messaged. this means you won't be dragged into a mumble waiting an hour for coaches for a garbage pug where sigma singlehandedly crushes your team. and yes, sigma, you will participate or as your son i will disown you
so if this sounds like something you would be interested in, join the group. i can't see much downside, unless you're frightened of occasionally being messaged out of the blue by me. i might never even run a single pug, and in a few months you'll leave the group thinking, "well, that's another in the long line of failures that is pet's tf2 career"
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/NOOBPUGS
Pretty sure this would just confuse new players.
Pretty sure this would just confuse new players.
hookyPretty sure this would just confuse new players.
what, exactly, is confusing?
[quote=hooky]Pretty sure this would just confuse new players.[/quote]
what, exactly, is confusing?
I don't understand why a new player would use this over newbiemixes. It also seems like it would drive new players away...
I don't understand why a new player would use this over newbiemixes. It also seems like it would drive new players away...
pethookyPretty sure this would just confuse new players.
what, exactly, is confusing?
It's not the idea, but having two groups.
[quote=pet][quote=hooky]Pretty sure this would just confuse new players.[/quote]
what, exactly, is confusing?[/quote]
It's not the idea, but having two groups.
- i have absolute power. this means i can ban anyone if i don't like the look of them.
calm down infinite
if i feel like brushing my hair instead of running a pug, my hair will be brushed.
do you need to be groomed? are you a horse?
[quote]- i have absolute power. this means i can ban anyone if i don't like the look of them. [/quote]
calm down infinite
[quote]if i feel like brushing my hair instead of running a pug, my hair will be brushed.[/quote]
do you need to be groomed? are you a horse?
Your group might as well play in normal #tf2mix or something, as there's almost always an experienced player. Just as for helpful advice while playing.
Your group might as well play in normal #tf2mix or something, as there's almost always an experienced player. Just as for helpful advice while playing.
some people just don't understand what ground breaking means
some people just don't understand what ground breaking means
hookypethookyPretty sure this would just confuse new players.
what, exactly, is confusing?
It's not the idea, but having two groups.
It's not the idea, its a concept. A way of life. It's a flank.
[quote=hooky][quote=pet][quote=hooky]Pretty sure this would just confuse new players.[/quote]
what, exactly, is confusing?[/quote]
It's not the idea, but having two groups.[/quote]
It's not the idea, its a concept. A way of life. It's a flank.
hookyIt's not the idea, but having two groups.
i don't think it's that confusing. we've had two groups before, with newbie mix and frozun's pug group. also i think europe has had multiple groups, not sure though
brownymasterYour group might as well play in normal #tf2mix or something, as there's almost always an experienced player. Just as for helpful advice while playing.
new players seem to like this kind of format more than an irc bot. also i wouldn't necessarily trust the advice of any given player
ChiI don't understand why a new player would use this over newbiemixes. It also seems like it would drive new players away...
it's an alternative. if people like it more, they can play in it. some people, especially coaches, have said to me that they liked playing in newbie mix more when it was smaller and had more experienced players in it. i'm sure there are other people who prefer the way it is now. not a big deal. i'm not sure how you think it would draw new players away
[quote=hooky]It's not the idea, but having two groups.[/quote]
i don't think it's that confusing. we've had two groups before, with newbie mix and frozun's pug group. also i think europe has had multiple groups, not sure though
[quote=brownymaster]Your group might as well play in normal #tf2mix or something, as there's almost always an experienced player. Just as for helpful advice while playing.[/quote]
new players seem to like this kind of format more than an irc bot. also i wouldn't necessarily trust the advice of any given player
[quote=Chi]I don't understand why a new player would use this over newbiemixes. It also seems like it would drive new players away...[/quote]
it's an alternative. if people like it more, they can play in it. some people, especially coaches, have said to me that they liked playing in newbie mix more when it was smaller and had more experienced players in it. i'm sure there are other people who prefer the way it is now. not a big deal. i'm not sure how you think it would draw new players away
I don't think this is something that would necessarily conflict with newbie mixes. If you've read any of the posts about newbie mix, the problem is getting coaches, not newbies. Having another pug group to help out in that regard could be a good thing.
Honestly, this is a lot like the first newbie mixes that took place a year ago. When there was only 150~ members in the steam group, rather than 3000. When we would sometimes have 2 or more coaches on each team because we could barely get 12 players. Those mixes were, in my opinion, a lot more fun and informative.
Also because the group was smaller then, a lot of the coaches and newbies became friends/mentors/teammates. A feeling of "community" that is kind of missing from the huge newbies mixes now.
If pet can get coaches who wouldn't normally coach in the weekend newbies mixes(eg Sigma as mentioned) because of the time of the event or the format, then why not let him do it?
I don't think this is something that would necessarily conflict with newbie mixes. If you've read any of the posts about newbie mix, the problem is getting coaches, not newbies. Having another pug group to help out in that regard could be a good thing.
Honestly, this is a lot like the first newbie mixes that took place a year ago. When there was only 150~ members in the steam group, rather than 3000. When we would sometimes have 2 or more coaches on each team because we could barely get 12 players. Those mixes were, in my opinion, a lot more fun and informative.
Also because the group was smaller then, a lot of the coaches and newbies became friends/mentors/teammates. A feeling of "community" that is kind of missing from the huge newbies mixes now.
If pet can get coaches who wouldn't normally coach in the weekend newbies mixes(eg Sigma as mentioned) because of the time of the event or the format, then why not let him do it?
This will not conflict with the newbie mixes. On the plus side it is a good alternative because the newbie mix went to shit with too many morons being allowed to have control.
This will not conflict with the newbie mixes. On the plus side it is a good alternative because the newbie mix went to shit with too many morons being allowed to have control.
From the perspective of a noob who wants to pug, I think this is a good idea and I hope you will run these consistently and actually put in the time.
From the perspective of a noob who wants to pug, I think this is a good idea and I hope you will run these consistently and actually put in the time.
More groups the better imo, I'll be doing this as well as newbie mix, and i'll keep queueing in tf2mix as well in hopes of getting picked lol.
More groups the better imo, I'll be doing this as well as newbie mix, and i'll keep queueing in tf2mix as well in hopes of getting picked lol.
What's the harm in having another group? When i was a newbie i enjoyed the two groups that were there and because newbie mixes cant be run everyday this is a good way for newbies to interact with one another. Groups like these make teams and bonds between people, it's how i made my first open team
What's the harm in having another group? When i was a newbie i enjoyed the two groups that were there and because newbie mixes cant be run everyday this is a good way for newbies to interact with one another. Groups like these make teams and bonds between people, it's how i made my first open team
coaches will probably be otl pie and nukeydog lol
fuck nukeydog
coaches will probably be otl pie and nukeydog lol
fuck nukeydog
DavyCcoaches will probably be otl pie and nukeydog lol
i hope not those guys are awful
[quote=DavyC]coaches will probably be otl pie and nukeydog lol[/quote]
i hope not those guys are awful
Europe has several groups like this. One event a day and then any number of announcements is fine, btw. You'll find it a huge energy drain unless you can make it self-sustaining with competent deputies and not having to individually ask people. For the same reason, consider holding them at the same time every day, at least until they gain momentum. People are very cattle-ish: individually wary and timid but herdable in larger numbers, though capable of stampeding, and treated well they produce the most delicious tender cuts.
Europe has several groups like this. One event a day and then any number of announcements is fine, btw. You'll find it a huge energy drain unless you can make it self-sustaining with competent deputies and not having to individually ask people. For the same reason, consider holding them at the same time every day, at least until they gain momentum. People are very cattle-ish: individually wary and timid but herdable in larger numbers, though capable of stampeding, and treated well they produce the most delicious tender cuts.
#19 outlines it pretty well. If you have the commitment go for it though.
#19 outlines it pretty well. If you have the commitment go for it though.
actually all #19 did was make me fear that he's a cannibal
actually all #19 did was make me fear that he's a cannibal
Another plus side to a group like this would be that it could run at times other than 9:00 on friday/saturday, which is a bad time for some people.
Another plus side to a group like this would be that it could run at times other than 9:00 on friday/saturday, which is a bad time for some people.
I don't see the harm in running this as long as the pug times don't conflict with newbie mix times. It's like another place newbs like me can go to play/learn the game when there aren't any newbie mixes going on.
I don't see the harm in running this as long as the pug times don't conflict with newbie mix times. It's like another place newbs like me can go to play/learn the game when there aren't any newbie mixes going on.
new players should play in tf2mix, just hop innnnnnnnnnnnnnn
new players should play in tf2mix, just hop innnnnnnnnnnnnnn
prestonnew players should play in tf2mix, just hop innnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Why do you play in tf2mix then?
[quote=preston]new players should play in tf2mix, just hop innnnnnnnnnnnnnn[/quote]
Why do you play in tf2mix then?
Yeeegzprestonnew players should play in tf2mix, just hop innnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Why do you play in tf2mix then?
sometimes it's better to have mentor figures (even if they didn't add to "mentor" the team they were chosen to play with) than 12 new players with little idea of how to play
[quote=Yeeegz][quote=preston]new players should play in tf2mix, just hop innnnnnnnnnnnnnn[/quote]
Why do you play in tf2mix then?[/quote]
sometimes it's better to have mentor figures (even if they didn't add to "mentor" the team they were chosen to play with) than 12 new players with little idea of how to play
petsome people, especially coaches, have said to me that they liked playing in newbie mix more when it was smaller and had more experienced players in it. i'm sure there are other people who prefer the way it is now. not a big deal. i'm not sure how you think it would draw new players away
Why would people prefer the smaller newbie mixes with more experienced people. Isn't the point of newbiemix to play with and teach new people? if your going to complain about the "newbies" why play newbiemixes at all?
[quote=pet]
some people, especially coaches, have said to me that they liked playing in newbie mix more when it was smaller and had more experienced players in it. i'm sure there are other people who prefer the way it is now. not a big deal. i'm not sure how you think it would draw new players away[/quote]
Why would people prefer the smaller newbie mixes with more experienced people. Isn't the point of newbiemix to play with and teach new people? if your going to complain about the "newbies" why play newbiemixes at all?
Yeeegzprestonnew players should play in tf2mix, just hop innnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Why do you play in tf2mix then?
it'd be better for new players to play with 11 players who are playing correctly, just ask for help! i would be more than happy to help someone new on my team and help em out with positioning and reacting.
one minor inconvenience with newbie mixes is that only 1 mentor is teaching 5 new players. if it was the other way around, say 5 mentors with 1 newbie, think how much the new player could learn from that experience.
i'm not here to tell new players to hop in so i can stomp them, but rather that there are people willing to help you if you simply ask. i've coached in a lot of the newbie mixes and i know most can handle tf2mix with some guidance. especially those who need a stepping point after playing dozens of newbie mixes.
[quote=Yeeegz][quote=preston]new players should play in tf2mix, just hop innnnnnnnnnnnnnn[/quote]
Why do you play in tf2mix then?[/quote]
it'd be better for new players to play with 11 players who are playing correctly, just ask for help! i would be more than happy to help someone new on my team and help em out with positioning and reacting.
one minor inconvenience with newbie mixes is that only 1 mentor is teaching 5 new players. if it was the other way around, say 5 mentors with 1 newbie, think how much the new player could learn from that experience.
i'm not here to tell new players to hop in so i can stomp them, but rather that there are people willing to help you if you simply ask. i've coached in a lot of the newbie mixes and i know most can handle tf2mix with some guidance. especially those who need a stepping point after playing dozens of newbie mixes.
prestonYeeegzprestonnew players should play in tf2mix, just hop innnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Why do you play in tf2mix then?
it'd be better for new players to play with 11 players who are playing correctly, just ask for help! i would be more than happy to help someone new on my team and help em out with positioning and reacting.
one minor inconvenience with newbie mixes is that only 1 mentor is teaching 5 new players. if it was the other way around, say 5 mentors with 1 newbie, think how much the new player could learn from that experience.
i'm not here to tell new players to hop in so i can stomp them, but rather that there are people willing to help you if you simply ask. i've coached in a lot of the newbie mixes and i know most can handle tf2mix with some guidance. especially those who need a stepping point after playing dozens of newbie mixes.
A lot of players don't share your helpful enthusiasm. Some of them even think that the noobs "ruin" pugs because they don't watch flank or bleed all the time but don't bother to explain to them what they're doing wrong.
The skill gap of tf2mix is going to be very wide if more new players start showing up. Most people who play pug.na also play in tf2mix. It's good that the community is growing and all, but not everyone wants to coddle new players, they should go to newbie mixes for that.
[quote=preston][quote=Yeeegz][quote=preston]new players should play in tf2mix, just hop innnnnnnnnnnnnnn[/quote]
Why do you play in tf2mix then?[/quote]
it'd be better for new players to play with 11 players who are playing correctly, just ask for help! i would be more than happy to help someone new on my team and help em out with positioning and reacting.
one minor inconvenience with newbie mixes is that only 1 mentor is teaching 5 new players. if it was the other way around, say 5 mentors with 1 newbie, think how much the new player could learn from that experience.
i'm not here to tell new players to hop in so i can stomp them, but rather that there are people willing to help you if you simply ask. i've coached in a lot of the newbie mixes and i know most can handle tf2mix with some guidance. especially those who need a stepping point after playing dozens of newbie mixes.[/quote]
A lot of players don't share your helpful enthusiasm. Some of them even think that the noobs "ruin" pugs because they don't watch flank or bleed all the time but don't bother to explain to them what they're doing wrong.
The skill gap of tf2mix is going to be very wide if more new players start showing up. Most people who play pug.na also play in tf2mix. It's good that the community is growing and all, but not everyone wants to coddle new players, they should go to newbie mixes for that.
http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/4104-prepare-yourselves