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Getting a new sound card
posted in Hardware
1
#1
-1 Frags +

Heyo, my current budget sound card (Xonar DGX) is about to go kaput so this is a good chance to finally upgrade.

Information:
- My headphones: Sennheiser HD 598. Great for all sorts of music thanks to the big soundstage but has a pretty weak bass. A sound card capable of boosting bass by even just a little bit would be cool
- I want to have great sounds in video juegos like CS:GO
- Not really looking to get a headphone amp (I rarely use high volume)

- Budget: around $200 (don't mind if it's a bit cheaper than that)
- Preferably PCI-E

Thanks!

Heyo, my current budget sound card (Xonar DGX) is about to go kaput so this is a good chance to finally upgrade.

Information:
- My headphones: Sennheiser HD 598. Great for all sorts of music thanks to the big soundstage but has a pretty weak bass. A sound card capable of boosting bass by even just a little bit would be cool
- I want to have great sounds in video juegos like CS:GO
- Not really looking to get a headphone amp (I rarely use high volume)

- Budget: around $200 (don't mind if it's a bit cheaper than that)
- Preferably PCI-E

Thanks!
2
#2
5 Frags +

i use this one right now with my hd 598s. works perfectly for what i need and hasnt had any problems whatsoever. even manages to make the 598s' weak bass sound amazing. just make sure to turn off all the crappy sound "enhancements" and it's perfect.

i use [url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102048]this one[/url] right now with my hd 598s. works perfectly for what i need and hasnt had any problems whatsoever. even manages to make the 598s' weak bass sound amazing. just make sure to turn off all the crappy sound "enhancements" and it's perfect.
3
#3
6 Frags +

Get an external DAC. The Schiit Modi 2 + magni 2 is an extremely popular amp/DAC and together they are $200.

http://schiit.com/products

Get an external DAC. The Schiit Modi 2 + magni 2 is an extremely popular amp/DAC and together they are $200.

http://schiit.com/products
4
#4
-1 Frags +

He explicitly said he doesn't want one, so I don't know why you recommended that.

He explicitly said he doesn't want one, so I don't know why you recommended that.
5
#5
0 Frags +

i have a sound blaster Z and it's a really good audio card, even cause it has a built it amp which is capable to drive headphones with an impedance up to 600ohm, and also has a really good panel with some nice functions

i have a sound blaster Z and it's a really good audio card, even cause it has a built it amp which is capable to drive headphones with an impedance up to 600ohm, and also has a really good panel with some nice functions
6
#6
7 Frags +
TurinHe explicitly said he doesn't want one, so I don't know why you recommended that.

Yes, but OP seems to think that you only need a headphone amp if you want to listen to music at exorbitant levels, which is patently false.

Almost every sound card on the market has a headphone amp stage built in, they're just going to be worse quality than dedicated separate components.

Nearly anything else you buy under $200 will be a worse value for your money than the Modi/Magni.

[quote=Turin]He explicitly said he doesn't want one, so I don't know why you recommended that.[/quote]

Yes, but OP seems to think that you only need a headphone amp if you want to listen to music at exorbitant levels, which is patently false.

Almost every sound card on the market has a headphone amp stage built in, they're just going to be worse quality than dedicated separate components.

Nearly anything else you buy under $200 will be a worse value for your money than the Modi/Magni.
7
#7
-1 Frags +

I actually realize all that, but I'm just saying what he asked for. Outboard gear will sound better than in the box cards at his price range, so if he wants the best quality he should get one.

I actually realize all that, but I'm just saying what he asked for. Outboard gear will sound better than in the box cards at his price range, so if he wants the best quality he should get one.
8
#8
1 Frags +

HT Omega Claro Halo is what i currently own and i love it.

I had a Xonar Essence STX and was disappointed with it...i took a risk with the Claro since price-wise it seemed to be a lateral move, but it just blows it away. The sound quality in all aspects is better. It also has a built in amp with select-able impedance jumper. I have the Sennheiser pc350's and it drives them with ease, so your HD598's will be fine. You should hear a much more detailed sound with your HD598's when driven properly, and the amp on this card does not disappoint. It also has swap-able op amps (what helps produce amplified electrical signal), so you can even further customize the sound if you are into that sort of thing. Most places sell it for around $180.

Only downside - it's PCI. That being said, if it broke i would instantly buy another one because it's so good.

HT Omega Claro Halo is what i currently own and i love it.

I had a Xonar Essence STX and was disappointed with it...i took a risk with the Claro since price-wise it seemed to be a lateral move, but it just blows it away. The sound quality in all aspects is better. It also has a built in amp with select-able impedance jumper. I have the Sennheiser pc350's and it drives them with ease, so your HD598's will be fine. You should hear a much more detailed sound with your HD598's when driven properly, and the amp on this card does not disappoint. It also has swap-able op amps (what helps produce amplified electrical signal), so you can even further customize the sound if you are into that sort of thing. Most places sell it for around $180.

Only downside - it's PCI. That being said, if it broke i would instantly buy another one because it's so good.
9
#9
1 Frags +

I have similar requirements to the OP with the addition of it needing Linux drivers.
Do any of you currently use Linux and have a working, decent sound card?

(I currently have a xonar DG which is perfectly serviceable in Windows, but I can't use the mic in Linux)

I have similar requirements to the OP with the addition of it needing Linux drivers.
Do any of you currently use Linux and have a working, decent sound card?

(I currently have a xonar DG which is perfectly serviceable in Windows, but I can't use the mic in Linux)
10
#10
3 Frags +
jwsoHeyo, my current budget sound card (Xonar DGX) is about to go kaput so this is a good chance to finally upgrade.

Okay, upgrading is always cool.

jwso- My headphones: Sennheiser HD 598. Great for all sorts of music thanks to the big soundstage but has a pretty weak bass. A sound card capable of boosting bass by even just a little bit would be cool

That is not how soundcards work. Soundcards are a two device component a DAC and an Amp. A DAC turns the digital information (the 1s and 0s) of your harddrive into something physical that can be played by speakers, headphones, etc. If you are listening to something that comes from a computer (ipod, phone, computer, etc.) then it must pass through a DAC for you to hear it. What qualifies a better dac is both the accuracy of converting these 1s and 0s to electricity and the amount of noise created from the process. Technology has advanced enough that the noise generated from the DAC is almost negligible, but other currents running in close proximity to the DAC can add their own noise. This is why a DAC should be as far away from all other electricity as possible (and why people recommend that you use an external DAC for best sound quality).

An amp on the other hand, boosts the strength of the electric signal so that it can power whatever device it is being sent to. If not enough electricity is the signal, then defects can be heard in the sound. An amp is qualified by one major factor, how much extra noise is added to the process of amplifying the signal.

Now as for real world stuff. Most low end to lower mid end headphones are actually efficient enough to run off the built in amp of most electronics (and definitely your motherboard). The hd598 fall into this category, purchasing a better amp really isn't going to do much in the grand scheme of things. The DAC on the other hand, is dependent on what you hear. Do you hear pops and cracks in otherwise silence? Is there a slight hissing in the music that you hear? These are signs that your current DAC really isn't doing your audio justice. Honestly, most motherboards these days have pretty good DACs in them that are shielded decently well.

However, you are using an XDG, an upgrade to whatever motherboard sound you have. An xdg has sufficient amping for almost everything in the mid tier range except headphones like the akg k70x and the hifiman he-400. Buying a better amp really is only going to be for future proofing yourself in case you upgrade your headphones later down the line. As for the DAC, the xdg also has a pretty decent DAC in it as well. If there is any noise that you hear it is probably from being inside of your case rather than the DAC itself. This means that buying another pci card isn't going to help. You are going to need an external DAC for the job if the noise is a problem.

Honestly, spending significant cash on an internal soundcard is pretty silly when it is just going to have as many problems as one that is significantly cheaper.

jwso- I want to have great sounds in video juegos like CS:GO

Video games have pretty crappy sound. The biggest thing that really matters for (competitive) gaming is having a good soundstage, something that is impossible to do with a soundcard (unless your headphones are severely underamped.

jwso- Not really looking to get a headphone amp (I rarely use high volume)

Volume has nothing to do with amping. There are volume knobs on amps for a reason. Outside of not introducing errors, providing headphones with extra power than it needs gives you extra headroom to prevent clipping and makes silence even quieter.

jwso- Budget: around $200 (don't mind if it's a bit cheaper than that)

This is a great budget. The low end products from Schiit as well as the O2+ODAC are great products.

[quote=jwso]Heyo, my current budget sound card (Xonar DGX) is about to go kaput so this is a good chance to finally upgrade.
[/quote]

Okay, upgrading is always cool.

[quote=jwso]
- My headphones: Sennheiser HD 598. Great for all sorts of music thanks to the big soundstage but has a pretty weak bass. A sound card capable of boosting bass by even just a little bit would be cool
[/quote]

That is not how soundcards work. Soundcards are a two device component a DAC and an Amp. A DAC turns the digital information (the 1s and 0s) of your harddrive into something physical that can be played by speakers, headphones, etc. If you are listening to something that comes from a computer (ipod, phone, computer, etc.) then it must pass through a DAC for you to hear it. What qualifies a better dac is both the accuracy of converting these 1s and 0s to electricity and the amount of noise created from the process. Technology has advanced enough that the noise generated from the DAC is almost negligible, but other currents running in close proximity to the DAC can add their own noise. This is why a DAC should be as far away from all other electricity as possible (and why people recommend that you use an external DAC for best sound quality).

An amp on the other hand, boosts the strength of the electric signal so that it can power whatever device it is being sent to. If not enough electricity is the signal, then defects can be heard in the sound. An amp is qualified by one major factor, how much extra noise is added to the process of amplifying the signal.

Now as for real world stuff. Most low end to lower mid end headphones are actually efficient enough to run off the built in amp of most electronics (and definitely your motherboard). The hd598 fall into this category, purchasing a better amp really isn't going to do much in the grand scheme of things. The DAC on the other hand, is dependent on what you hear. Do you hear pops and cracks in otherwise silence? Is there a slight hissing in the music that you hear? These are signs that your current DAC really isn't doing your audio justice. Honestly, most motherboards these days have pretty good DACs in them that are shielded decently well.

However, you are using an XDG, an upgrade to whatever motherboard sound you have. An xdg has sufficient amping for almost everything in the mid tier range except headphones like the akg k70x and the hifiman he-400. Buying a better amp really is only going to be for future proofing yourself in case you upgrade your headphones later down the line. As for the DAC, the xdg also has a pretty decent DAC in it as well. If there is any noise that you hear it is probably from being inside of your case rather than the DAC itself. This means that buying another pci card isn't going to help. You are going to need an external DAC for the job if the noise is a problem.

Honestly, spending significant cash on an internal soundcard is pretty silly when it is just going to have as many problems as one that is significantly cheaper.


[quote=jwso]
- I want to have great sounds in video juegos like CS:GO
[/quote]

Video games have pretty crappy sound. The biggest thing that really matters for (competitive) gaming is having a good soundstage, something that is impossible to do with a soundcard (unless your headphones are severely underamped.

[quote=jwso]
- Not really looking to get a headphone amp (I rarely use high volume)
[/quote]

Volume has nothing to do with amping. There are volume knobs on amps for a reason. Outside of not introducing errors, providing headphones with extra power than it needs gives you extra headroom to prevent clipping and makes silence even quieter.

[quote=jwso]
- Budget: around $200 (don't mind if it's a bit cheaper than that)
[/quote]

This is a great budget. The low end products from Schiit as well as the O2+ODAC are great products.
11
#11
1 Frags +

I love my Xonar Essence STX. I don't have a lot of experience with sound cards to compare it to, but it's been good to me.

I love my Xonar Essence STX. I don't have a lot of experience with sound cards to compare it to, but it's been good to me.
12
#12
1 Frags +

Sorry to possibly steal the thread, but if I'm looking to get a K7XX from the massdrop drop, should I get both the dac and amp from schiit or just the amp?

Sorry to possibly steal the thread, but if I'm looking to get a K7XX from the massdrop drop, should I get both the dac and amp from schiit or just the amp?
13
#13
2 Frags +

#10 explained it pretty well.

There's something you all forgot. If I'm not mistaken OP is in europe. Both the Modi/Magni aswell as the ODAC/O2 combo are >200 over here.
A while ago you could've got the ODAC/O2 for less than 200€, not less than 200$ though, from headnhifi.org, but now that the exchange rates (Swiss Franc/Euro) aren't in our favour anymore it's not going to happen.

#10 explained it pretty well.

There's something you all forgot. If I'm not mistaken OP is in europe. Both the Modi/Magni aswell as the ODAC/O2 combo are >200[b]€[/b] over here.
A while ago you could've got the ODAC/O2 for less than 200€, not less than 200$ though, from headnhifi.org, but now that the exchange rates (Swiss Franc/Euro) aren't in our favour anymore it's not going to happen.
14
#14
1 Frags +

Thanks for the clarification, I really don't have much experience with all this audio gear.

I don't particularly have any issues with the sound but I guess it could always be better. My DGX suddenly started having issues the other day (mic jack doesn't work, massive static noise randomly) and I couldn't find any solution, so I might as well upgrade instead of getting a replacement.

So, if I get a DAC + amp combo what kind of a soundcard goes well with it?

edit: The prices are indeed pretty high here, but I can invest a bit more if necessary.

Thanks for the clarification, I really don't have much experience with all this audio gear.

I don't particularly have any issues with the sound but I guess it could always be better. My DGX suddenly started having issues the other day (mic jack doesn't work, massive static noise randomly) and I couldn't find any solution, so I might as well upgrade instead of getting a replacement.

So, if I get a DAC + amp combo what kind of a soundcard goes well with it?

edit: The prices are indeed pretty high here, but I can invest a bit more if necessary.
15
#15
2 Frags +

#14 the external dac + amp in itself is the "sound card"

your audio is going to be processed through the USB dac/amp and you'll have a 3.5mm jack to plug in your headphones/speakers

there have been good recommendations in this thread, the Schiit Modi 2 + magni 2/ odac2 are really good setups

the HD598 are only 50ohm so you won't get that much of of the amp, but for sound quality and being able to upgrade down the line the dac/amp combo is a much much better buy than a sound card

#14 the external dac + amp in itself is the "sound card"

your audio is going to be processed through the USB dac/amp and you'll have a 3.5mm jack to plug in your headphones/speakers

there have been good recommendations in this thread, the Schiit Modi 2 + magni 2/ odac2 are really good setups

the HD598 are only 50ohm so you won't get that much of of the amp, but for sound quality and being able to upgrade down the line the dac/amp combo is a much much better buy than a sound card
16
#16
-1 Frags +

This video explains it fairly well if you have the time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1rXcJuEsy0

This video explains it fairly well if you have the time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1rXcJuEsy0
17
#17
2 Frags +

Oops, in my tiredness last night I forgot to actually give my recommendation for you. Provided you have no audio issues (when the card was working) I would just get another xdg and save the rest of your money for a future headphone upgrade. Outside of having a good source (your music tracks), headphones will give you the most bang for your buck sound quality to money spent ratio.

And for the bass issue, just use an equalizer and boost the bass. Your only other option for a stronger bass would be to buy a new set of headphones. Amps only help underpowered headphones get some more control on the bass, but your headphones aren't underpowered.

As for the other stuff in the thread:

#12, as I said in my post, unless you hear noise when there should be silence or you hear random pops and cracks you don't need to spend your money on a DAC. The AKG k70x are a very power hungry (low sensitivity) headphones for whatever reason so you do probably want to pick up an amp.

Oops, in my tiredness last night I forgot to actually give my recommendation for you. Provided you have no audio issues (when the card was working) I would just get another xdg and save the rest of your money for a future headphone upgrade. Outside of having a good source (your music tracks), headphones will give you the most bang for your buck sound quality to money spent ratio.

And for the bass issue, just use an equalizer and boost the bass. Your only other option for a stronger bass would be to buy a new set of headphones. Amps only help underpowered headphones get some more control on the bass, but your headphones aren't underpowered.

As for the other stuff in the thread:

#12, as I said in my post, unless you hear noise when there should be silence or you hear random pops and cracks you don't need to spend your money on a DAC. The AKG k70x are a very power hungry (low sensitivity) headphones for whatever reason so you do probably want to pick up an amp.
18
#18
0 Frags +
And for the bass issue, just use an equalizer and boost the bass. Your only other option for a stronger bass would be to buy a new set of headphones. Amps only help underpowered headphones get some more control on the bass, but your headphones aren't underpowered.

This is 100% correct....i was thinking the 598's had a higher impedance than 50, so my suggestion of a card would be way too much for your setup. Take stoch's advice, find a good EQ program and start there, especially if just for gaming.

[quote]And for the bass issue, just use an equalizer and boost the bass. Your only other option for a stronger bass would be to buy a new set of headphones. Amps only help underpowered headphones get some more control on the bass, but your headphones aren't underpowered.[/quote]

This is 100% correct....i was thinking the 598's had a higher impedance than 50, so my suggestion of a card would be way too much for your setup. Take stoch's advice, find a good EQ program and start there, especially if just for gaming.
19
#19
0 Frags +

i can vouch for the o2+odac combo.
amazing value!

i can vouch for the o2+odac combo.
amazing value!
20
#20
3 Frags +

#16
Please stop linking that video. It's like 1/3 truth, 1/3 oversimplification and 1/3 bullshit. It clears up some of the misconceptions, myths but adds new ones.

#1
What's your motherboard? If it's a recent one you might have decent onboard sound like the ALC1150. The HD 598s don't really need an amp and unless you need a mic preamp or whatever else you might be using the soundcard for, there's no reason to use a soundcard.

#16
Please stop linking that video. It's like 1/3 truth, 1/3 oversimplification and 1/3 bullshit. It clears up some of the misconceptions, myths but adds new ones.

#1
What's your motherboard? If it's a recent one you might have decent onboard sound like the ALC1150. The HD 598s don't really need an amp and unless you need a mic preamp or whatever else you might be using the soundcard for, there's no reason to use a soundcard.
21
#21
0 Frags +

My motherboard is the ASUS M5A97 R2.0. I don't think the onboard sound is all that great, but it could potentially just be nocebo.

Looks like I'd have to buy Schiit gear or the O2+ODAC from outside my country and they'd still cost more than $250, so I think I will just get the Sound Blaster Z for now as I have no plans to upgrade my headphones any time soon. Plus I'll be able to sell the sound card to one of my friends if I happen to find something better for cheap.
(I also forgot to mention I use speakers sometimes so a headphone amp wouldn't be the bestest of ideas)

My motherboard is the ASUS M5A97 R2.0. I don't think the onboard sound is all that great, but it could potentially just be nocebo.

Looks like I'd have to buy Schiit gear or the O2+ODAC from outside my country and they'd still cost more than $250, so I think I will just get the Sound Blaster Z for now as I have no plans to upgrade my headphones any time soon. Plus I'll be able to sell the sound card to one of my friends if I happen to find something better for cheap.
[size=10](I also forgot to mention I use speakers sometimes so a headphone amp wouldn't be the bestest of ideas)[/size]
22
#22
0 Frags +
x3i can vouch for the o2+odac combo.
amazing value!

This not as good as the magni/modi for 598s based on my personal experience.

[quote=x3]i can vouch for the o2+odac combo.
amazing value![/quote]

This not as good as the magni/modi for 598s based on my personal experience.
23
#23
1 Frags +

Oh, well i have HD-650, maybe the combo suit it better than HD-598.

Oh, well i have HD-650, maybe the combo suit it better than HD-598.
24
#24
1 Frags +

Alright, I've got the Sound Blaster Z ready and running. Are there any settings I should definitely tick (got all the special thingmajicks except for SBX Pro Studio in the control panel disabled)?

The SBX Pro Studio is actually pretty cool. For all the electronic music stuff I set the bass to maximum and smart volume to night mode because the highest pitches were too high for my young and delicate ears.

Alright, I've got the Sound Blaster Z ready and running. Are there any settings I should definitely tick (got all the special thingmajicks except for SBX Pro Studio in the control panel disabled)?

The SBX Pro Studio is actually pretty cool. For all the electronic music stuff I set the bass to maximum and smart volume to night mode because the highest pitches were too high for my young and delicate ears.
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