what if we trick the pubbers into complaining about all the classes that didn't get nerfed so that those classes get nerfed and then everything in the 6s meta is nerfed and if those classes are nerfed proportionally to how the demo was everything ends up being back where we started kinda.

or they could just *fix demo

put roamer in the combo (maybe have him equip shotty), run some double pocket soldier dealio, put demo on the flank

Hai im the eu guy. Your response made me giggle uncontrollably. It was simply too cute :3

The point of my comment was as follows; a perfect sticky (i.e det'd under someones feet) now does less damage than a sloppy rocket. And considering what platinum & co was saying, i just found that important to point out. Have i made myself clear? :))

Demoman has no manoeuvrability at the moment, if the stickies damage ramp applied to self it could work.

Issue is that once you det your stickies that's pretty much it.

Apparently the BASE Jumper is causing client crashes according to UGC, maybe the source of recent problems in pug.na on Dallas 1?

It isn't just pug.na that it's causing it on. It happens in mix, my team's server, and even pubs.

The pugna servers have been having some issues since before the update, I wouldn't be surprised if it had nothing to do with the update.

hi

You sire, made my day

Rocket = primary, stickies = secondary

needles = primary medigun = secondary

Needles are the medics primary damage dealing gun, correct.

http://i.imgur.com/oDg41su.gif

is this real life?

http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Stickybomb_Launcher

Slot: Secondary

Are you guys serious?

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. If the defining weapon or ability of each class was in the primary slot, medic would be using solely needles, spy would walk around uncloaked and undisguised revolvering people, and engineer would walk around shotgunning people without building anything.

I like this idea

Strawmen everywhere!

Make rollers do full damage again :)

Love Fragga.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJs9qOr5D10&feature=player_detailpage#t=314

They tried to bring back the tfc sniper rifle (and botched it..so far)...clearly now it's time to bring back the tfc green pipe launcher to fill the niche left by the sticky nerf!

New (classic) green pipe launcher:
[*] pipes can bounce and slide somewhat on the terrain (do not use same physics as 'rollers'.. would need to tweak the physics and friction of this carefully)
[*] fires at consistent arc/power...(instead of charging stickies you use the geometry of the map to vary your minimum attack range as there is still a minimum arm time)
[*] No damage ramp up

sticky launcher will remain superior at setting traps and have farther reach, but the green pipe launcher would be superior at pure damage and aggressive area denial...also using geometry in your attacks is fun as hell for some reason. Make it happen!

This thread is confusing.

People at first talk about how the SL nerf could help expand the game, and are told "stfu, this effects high level" and then a few high level players are saying they like it, and are being downfragged into oblivion.

???

*

People at first thought it would be great and allow for new things to develop, turns out some of those things involve full buffed heavies and wrangled sentries, also turns out most demo mains are not masochist and don't like to sit watching carpets of stickies while being completely irrelevant in a fight.

I don't think anyone actually believe that this nerf is "expanding" the game other than you. Stop pretending your opinion is that of the majority and face the fact that most high level players (invite/prem) think this change is for the worst (with the only exception of Plat/Harbleu in this forum).

As for your previous post about how much you enjoyed watching competitive games after the patch, please consider the quality of what you are seeing - just because it's new doesn't mean its good. The traps/pipes only/or shield meta may look good for a week, but it will probably be less enjoyable overall for the future.

Look at the bright side of this nerf. If before you were in doubt that Valve stopped giving a shit about anyonee but braindead idiots who think that anything they cant kill by running in a straight line is OP, then you have your conclusion now.

There were literally a billion better ways to nerf if (because lets face it, it WAS a tad strong) than this, and they better listen for once, because this is not a random unlock that you can ban. Its a core mechanic (and first of all, you DONT change core mechanics after so many years. Its disrespectful).

I dont actually think its gonna affect 6v6 as much as people make it out to be (apart from making it less fun). What im concerned about is Highlander and pubs because Stickies were a really reliable counter to wrangled sentries and overhealed heavies, and now you can stand there and spam all day long without doing jack shit. And you cant defend yourself that well against flanking players either. Also, Engie stack in pubs is a nightmare now, and when I encounter it I usually just leave instead of even trying.

Idk if they did this to make more people use Tide Turner or whatever, but every single pub demo now uses it. Its annoying AS FUCK to play against and I dont think they should ever have added it, but it seems like it could make Demoknight much more viable because you can actually get away after your bullshit charge pick. Has someone tried running it in a mix/pug with good results?

I agree with you there 100% but some of your other points were off IMO.

You implied that this was a sign that valve doesn't care and only listens to what pub players want. Have you ever played on a pub? Medics that don't know to build on the way to mid, or before the gates open on bad maps. Engineers who on push maps sit on their last the entire time. 37 spys/snipers per team. I seriously doubt they nerfed the sticky launcher because the average pub players who most likely need Velcro sneakers were asking them to. Also like you said, in pubs playing against an engy stack is harder now with the nerf. It wasn't because pub players were asking for it.

I only ever played like 2 seasons in highlander so I really don't know how their demos play compared to 6s, but its not game breaking. It's not like they removed ubers from the game or gave the scout 300hp and a rocket launcher. If we're lucky the Internet will rise up, and valve will revert the nerf but I don't see that happening. Worst case, we adapt. It'll be ok.

I honestly have no clue how many pubbers actually wanted a sticky nerf. Im constantly bombarded with people who defend the nerf by saying "everyone was asking for it" while other people say it was only SPUF-users who complained about it. I havent really seen any complaints ever on the servers where I play, but I dont play everywhere obviously, so idk. But tbh it seems like the reason that makes the most sense to me - Valve trying to cater to the average player to make them happy and buy a little key, and perhaps to make more people buy Tide Turners from the store as well.
Considering Valve's really good history of adding amazing unlocks like the buffed Short Circuit and release Tomislav, I would say that its very likely that they actually added this nerf without thinking about further consequences with Wrangled sentries etc. Its no secret that the current TF team is, to put it very nicely, a bunch of confused individuals.

also someone on SPUF just wrote now that an update is incoming! MAYBE THEYRE REVERTING THE NERF GUYS #HYPEHYPEHYPE #HASHTAG #CUT4BIEBER

You don't know Valve very well then.

It doesn't break tf2, but it breaks OUR version of the game. Whether valve cares about our proposed meta or not, it's expected that people are going to be pissed about it one way or another. People don't like change.

Valve listened? WHAT

http://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/28x9ut/tf2_update_for_62314_62414_utc/

every demo main can quit crying now