Salamancer#41 This is indeed the right course of action for conflict resolution. Probably should have followed those steps for this thread too, replacing step 3 with "airing of grievances in a public forum." Of course I'm guilty of the same in many instances so it's the pot calling the kettle black while the kettle calls the stovetop even blacker and basically all the kitchen hardware is bitching at each other.
Yes, I'm aware, but I wanted to vent my frustrations, and sadly I don't have a goldfish.
My frustrations that the community should be working together, but instead TF.TV decided to take the hostile approach to things by trying to push us out of the picture at this event.
[quote=Salamancer]#41 This is indeed the right course of action for conflict resolution. Probably should have followed those steps for this thread too, replacing step 3 with "airing of grievances in a public forum." Of course I'm guilty of the same in many instances so it's the pot calling the kettle black while the kettle calls the stovetop even blacker and basically all the kitchen hardware is bitching at each other.[/quote]
Yes, I'm aware, but I wanted to vent my frustrations, and sadly I don't have a goldfish.
My frustrations that the community should be working together, but instead TF.TV decided to take the hostile approach to things by trying to push us out of the picture at this event.
snip
actually no, im not getting involved at all, sorry
snip
actually no, im not getting involved at all, sorry
Arx. If you just wanted to cooperate like you said how about you just talked to tf.tv yourself after they submitted first? Or how about you talk to them right now instead of making this abysmal thread that accomplishes nothing whatsoever.
Show Content
Everyone, go.
Arx. If you just wanted to cooperate like you said how about you just talked to tf.tv yourself after they submitted first? Or how about you talk to them right now instead of making this abysmal thread that accomplishes nothing whatsoever.
[spoiler]Everyone, go.[/spoiler]
LuckyLukeI haven't read 99% of this thread but the way I see it:
Work together as much as possible, and make a "top product" by combining skill. Doesn't matter where you come from.
Doesn't take away you should communicate who's doing what though, before the public gets involved with that.....?
Working together in a business scenario is feasible if both organizations have something to offer one another. I don't mean to be rude but I think tf.tv is perfectly capable of handling the event by themselves.
[quote=LuckyLuke]I haven't read 99% of this thread but the way I see it:
Work together as much as possible, and make a "top product" by combining skill. Doesn't matter where you come from.
Doesn't take away you should communicate who's doing what though, before the public gets involved with that.....?[/quote]
Working together in a business scenario is feasible if both organizations have something to offer one another. I don't mean to be rude but I think tf.tv is perfectly capable of handling the event by themselves.
Is that the same reason you adviced to kick admirable out of the vanillastaff+irc channel cause he also works for tf.tv arx?A guy that works for both sides and doenst give the slightest about each others problems but does a great job just cause he loves tf2 and covering it :) you got some issues and don´t care about community at all. That´s a fact. With your village dummy posts on a regular base on each forums you create nothing but contempt for another and that´s the problem. Not that one org doesnt ask the other over a job pitch or anything. The problem is that we make everyone playing comp TF2 look like a fucking idiots.
Is that the same reason you adviced to kick admirable out of the vanillastaff+irc channel cause he also works for tf.tv arx?A guy that works for both sides and doenst give the slightest about each others problems but does a great job just cause he loves tf2 and covering it :) you got some issues and don´t care about community at all. That´s a fact. With your village dummy posts on a regular base on each forums you create nothing but contempt for another and that´s the problem. Not that one org doesnt ask the other over a job pitch or anything. The problem is that we make everyone playing comp TF2 look like a fucking idiots.
I can't express in words how frustrated I am that the personal interaction of ~4 EU-tf.tv/VTV people is making this whole i49 thing so needlessly complicated.
We have Arx saying he would not work with anyone from the tf.tv proposal, ot even those who we were so happy to work with at i46, not even the ones that have never wronged VTV.
We have Comedian saying he'll never work with Byte again, Byte saying he'll never work with skyride again.
We have a tiny scene, you'll be running into eachother until TF2 dies or until you quit. Get over it.
I can't express in words how frustrated I am that the personal interaction of ~4 EU-tf.tv/VTV people is making this whole i49 thing so needlessly complicated.
We have Arx saying he would not work with anyone from the tf.tv proposal, ot even those who we were so happy to work with at i46, not even the ones that have never wronged VTV.
We have Comedian saying he'll never work with Byte again, Byte saying he'll never work with skyride again.
We have a tiny scene, you'll be running into eachother until TF2 dies or until you quit. Get over it.
Arx1st - VanillaTV usually cover these events. If TF.TV wanted to cover it, they should speak to us.
2nd - VanillaTV and TF.TV should have tried to work out a way that the whole community could benefit, and put on the best show possible.
3rd - If these talks couldn't amount to an agreement, then TF.TV should send in a coverage proposal to Multiplay. VTV then respond. Multiplay then decide who should cover the event.
-----------------------------
The problem that I'm trying to point out, is that TF.TV skipped the first and second step. This is a hostile approach towards us, rather than one that actually looked at what would benefit the community the most.
There are calls for us to allow commentators and crew to come help out at i49. Honestly, I still think this is the best option, but can't you even see why I'm having trouble agreeing to this, when people attempt to shut you out of the game like they did?
Do you not understand how capitalism works? TFTV is your direct competitor now. They decided to get a foot into the market by casting i49. Multiplay has the right to choose whatever proposal they want, and they chose TFTV's. They even offered to collaborate, but you refused (and by what I understand, rather rudely). If you don't want to collaborate, then of course they're going to compete instead. That's literally the basics of a proposal in a capitalist economy. You have no long-term contract with them, so they can choose whoever the hell they want. You have no "right" to it just because you had the monopoly on iseries casting up until now.
[quote=Arx]1st - VanillaTV usually cover these events. If TF.TV wanted to cover it, they should speak to us.
2nd - VanillaTV and TF.TV should have tried to work out a way that the whole community could benefit, and put on the best show possible.
3rd - If these talks couldn't amount to an agreement, then TF.TV should send in a coverage proposal to Multiplay. VTV then respond. Multiplay then decide who should cover the event.
-----------------------------
The problem that I'm trying to point out, is that TF.TV skipped the first and second step. This is a hostile approach towards us, rather than one that actually looked at what would benefit the community the most.
There are calls for us to allow commentators and crew to come help out at i49. Honestly, I still think this is the best option, but can't you even see why I'm having trouble agreeing to this, when people attempt to shut you out of the game like they did?[/quote]
Do you not understand how capitalism works? TFTV is your direct competitor now. They decided to get a foot into the market by casting i49. Multiplay has the right to choose whatever proposal they want, and they chose TFTV's. They even offered to collaborate, but you refused (and by what I understand, rather rudely). If you don't want to collaborate, then of course they're going to compete instead. That's literally the basics of a proposal in a capitalist economy. You have no long-term contract with them, so they can choose whoever the hell they want. You have no "right" to it just because you had the monopoly on iseries casting up until now.
Why does it matter VTV got the slot and TF.TV will just have to try harder to snatch it from them next year.
Why does it matter VTV got the slot and TF.TV will just have to try harder to snatch it from them next year.
Such childish bullshit, just make out like bros and call it a day.
Such childish bullshit, just make out like bros and call it a day.
blueepotIf you do a bing search (google is based on your browsing history and would be biased) for competitive european tf2, vtv isnt even anywhere on there.
http://i.imgur.com/C9NdoYb.png
im not getting involved other than backing up this point
or at least i hope i dont idk
Did it with Ask.com
http://i.imgur.com/uCxoRd4.png
[quote=bluee][quote=pot]If you do a bing search (google is based on your browsing history and would be biased) for competitive european tf2, vtv isnt even anywhere on there.[/quote]
http://i.imgur.com/C9NdoYb.png
im not getting involved other than backing up this point
or at least i hope i dont idk[/quote]
Did it with Ask.com
[img]http://i.imgur.com/uCxoRd4.png[/img]
[img]http://www.kugutsumen.com/images/smilies/gf-cripes.gif[/img]
How dare TFTV write a well written proposal and take the professional approach to a 3rd party event? They should have known that we wanted to do this event, and them going the extra leg for this just burns me up!
i fail to see why eu-tftv is at fault in any sense besides smack-talking VTV on some show not affiliated with TFTV and on a forum. You could have maybe just stuck to addressing this instead of being an idiot man.
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business
you should also be counting your blessings multiplay informed you that a competitor of yours wrote a proposal and that you didn't! any nonbias business would have just looked at the proposals received and chose the best one (atleast regarding event coverage), so it's really hard for me to see why you can even consider complaining about having to write a proposal when multiplay was so nice as to let you know.
[i]How dare TFTV write a well written proposal and take the professional approach to a 3rd party event? They should have known that we wanted to do this event, and them going the extra leg for this just burns me up![/i]
i fail to see why eu-tftv is at fault in any sense besides smack-talking VTV on some show not affiliated with TFTV and on a forum. You could have maybe just stuck to addressing this instead of being an idiot man.
[spoiler]business[/spoiler]
you should also be counting your blessings multiplay informed you that a competitor of yours wrote a proposal and that you didn't! any nonbias business would have just looked at the proposals received and chose the best one (atleast regarding event coverage), so it's really hard for me to see why you can even consider complaining about having to write a proposal when multiplay was so nice as to let you know.
Birdyrocksi don't understand why you feel you need to be asked? as i said previously multiplay make the decision not you so why ask you?
i think i see what you are trying to say but you aren't saying it right at all i think you mean it would have been nice if you had been told before the proposal was submitted, not tf.tv should have spoken to us you see how those are completely different things?
It's not that I feel we needed to be asked. It's just if TF.TV wanted what is best for the community, I would have thought they would have considered trying to work with us first (as I think most people agree that would have been the best outcome). Instead they went to try and take the contract, which is one way to do it (and also perfectly legit), but attempting to take the contract surely ends the possibility of working together, because it's a hostile approach rather than a diplomatic one. Why would you want to work with someone after they've attempted to push you out entirely?
VanillaTV secured the contract and now there are well-founded calls from the community to invite people like Sal to come and work with us. The point I am making is that half of me thinks this is a great idea (and should have been done from the start), where as the other half is thinking 'fuck these guys, they tried to cut us out the contract, whereby we would have no role in a show we've been working hard with for years'.
Do you see what I mean?
[quote=Birdyrocks]i don't understand why you feel you need to be asked? as i said previously multiplay make the decision not you so why ask you?
i think i see what you are trying to say but you aren't saying it right at all i think you mean it would have been nice if you had been told before the proposal was submitted, not tf.tv should have spoken to us you see how those are completely different things?[/quote]
It's not that I feel we needed to be asked. It's just if TF.TV wanted what is best for the community, I would have thought they would have considered trying to work with us first (as I think most people agree that would have been the best outcome). Instead they went to try and take the contract, which is one way to do it (and also perfectly legit), but attempting to take the contract surely ends the possibility of working together, because it's a hostile approach rather than a diplomatic one. Why would you want to work with someone after they've attempted to push you out entirely?
VanillaTV secured the contract and now there are well-founded calls from the community to invite people like Sal to come and work with us. The point I am making is that half of me thinks this is a great idea (and should have been done from the start), where as the other half is thinking 'fuck these guys, they tried to cut us out the contract, whereby we would have no role in a show we've been working hard with for years'.
Do you see what I mean?
sal please at least use a FACEPALM x2 COMBO
sal please at least use a FACEPALM x2 COMBO
ArxBirdyrocksi don't understand why you feel you need to be asked? as i said previously multiplay make the decision not you so why ask you?
i think i see what you are trying to say but you aren't saying it right at all i think you mean it would have been nice if you had been told before the proposal was submitted, not tf.tv should have spoken to us you see how those are completely different things?
-snip-
you told them to fuck off. what reason do they have to play nice?
[quote=Arx][quote=Birdyrocks]i don't understand why you feel you need to be asked? as i said previously multiplay make the decision not you so why ask you?
i think i see what you are trying to say but you aren't saying it right at all i think you mean it would have been nice if you had been told before the proposal was submitted, not tf.tv should have spoken to us you see how those are completely different things?[/quote]-snip-[/quote]you told them to fuck off. what reason do they have to play nice?
-actually I'm removing this.-
-actually I'm removing this.-
Nothing positive is coming from this thread, only petty arguments and squabbling.
Nothing positive is coming from this thread, only petty arguments and squabbling.
[img]http://img-cache.cdn.gaiaonline.com/055f2315c1d986a559873aeb2d208aee/http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af38/choopkobra/tumblr_m2gg8qEI6p1rtcfaqo1_500.gif[/img]
[img]http://www.chuckdevries.com/smdh.gif[/img]
pls, just stahp
the301stspartanArx. If you just wanted to cooperate like you said how about you just talked to tf.tv yourself after they submitted first? Or how about you talk to them right now instead of making this abysmal thread that accomplishes nothing whatsoever.
Show Content
Everyone, go.
It's the whole point of my frustrations. With a lose reference, if someone invades your country and you fend them off, do you then invite them in to run it with you?
Even if I think it would be better to let them in, the hostile approach makes it difficult to want to...
It would have been better to speak to us, and attempted to run it together first.
[quote=the301stspartan]Arx. If you just wanted to cooperate like you said how about you just talked to tf.tv yourself after they submitted first? Or how about you talk to them right now instead of making this abysmal thread that accomplishes nothing whatsoever.
[spoiler]Everyone, go.[/spoiler][/quote]
It's the whole point of my frustrations. With a lose reference, if someone invades your country and you fend them off, do you then invite them in to run it with you?
Even if I think it would be better to let them in, the hostile approach makes it difficult to want to...
It would have been better to speak to us, and attempted to run it together first.
What Sal said, this is stupid. All TF.TV wanted was to work hard and try to get the spot. An NA, EU, and AU team will be there to help represent TF2 for their nation, and this gives us once again, another chance to make TF2 more public and noticeable. TBH when people hear "TeamFortress.TV" I think they'll think it's the main organization for TF2, the one centralizing place for it. While when some think "VanillaTV" they'll be like, it his a cooking game? But yes, both groups CAN work together, and make a great show for everyone, and as you say, VTV always gets the spot, but why not for once let TF.TV try it? Let them in the spotlight and see what they can do, with the help of course from VTV working together. We may be putting on a great show, but let's try to help competitive TF2 out by getting more players by possibly changing something.
What Sal said, this is stupid. All TF.TV wanted was to work hard and try to get the spot. An NA, EU, and AU team will be there to help represent TF2 for their nation, and this gives us once again, another chance to make TF2 more public and noticeable. TBH when people hear "TeamFortress.TV" I think they'll think it's the main organization for TF2, the one centralizing place for it. While when some think "VanillaTV" they'll be like, it his a cooking game? But yes, both groups CAN work together, and make a great show for everyone, and as you say, VTV always gets the spot, but why not for once let TF.TV try it? Let them in the spotlight and see what they can do, with the help of course from VTV working together. We may be putting on a great show, but let's try to help competitive TF2 out by getting more players by possibly changing something.
I think Ipz's and Sal's posts are the best and most informational kbye
SAL <3
I think Ipz's and Sal's posts are the best and most informational kbye
SAL <3
Arx, I understand that you are trying to promote an atittude of cooperation. I think that is admirable and something we should all do. However, in the same breath you are also acting entitled to coverage of i49 and suggesting that VTV is somehow the gatekeeper to it. Cooperation works both ways and both sides failed.
It seems that you're not interested in my blowjob offer so how about a handshake and a bro-hug instead? Let's do that instead of quarreling on the forums.
Arx, I understand that you are trying to promote an atittude of cooperation. I think that is admirable and something we should all do. However, in the same breath you are also acting entitled to coverage of i49 and suggesting that VTV is somehow the gatekeeper to it. Cooperation works both ways and both sides failed.
It seems that you're not interested in my blowjob offer so how about a handshake and a bro-hug instead? Let's do that instead of quarreling on the forums.
ArxIt's the whole point of my frustrations. With a lose reference, if someone invades your country and you fend them off, do you then invite them in to run it with you?
Even if I think it would be better to let them in, the hostile approach makes it difficult to want to...
It would have been better to speak to us, and attempted to run it together first.
Never knew VTV owned i49/multiplay, tftv is literally Hitler invading Arx's country.
An extremely lose reference (loose analogy?).
[quote=Arx]
It's the whole point of my frustrations. With a lose reference, if someone invades your country and you fend them off, do you then invite them in to run it with you?
Even if I think it would be better to let them in, the hostile approach makes it difficult to want to...
It would have been better to speak to us, and attempted to run it together first.[/quote]
Never knew VTV owned i49/multiplay, tftv is literally Hitler invading Arx's country.
An extremely lose reference (loose analogy?).
ArxWhy would you want to work with someone after they've attempted to push you out entirely?
Because not doing so would be childish, immature, and detrimental to the growth of the community...All of which you're accusing TFTV of?
Please tell me you see the irony of this thread.
[quote=Arx]Why would you want to work with someone after they've attempted to push you out entirely?[/quote]
Because not doing so would be childish, immature, and detrimental to the growth of the community...All of which you're accusing TFTV of?
Please tell me you see the irony of this thread.