Valve released the TF2 SDK in February, and immediately we all jumped in on a conversation about our own version of the game, but with blackjack and hookers improving the game on all fronts to better suit our needs, whatever those needs were. This conversation wasn’t even new, competitive-focused mods have been talked about for almost 12 years now, at least from what I can find in TFTV discussions.
More recently than the release of the SDK comes a wallhack exploit that was publicized, with steps on how to achieve it, to perfectly bypass sv_pure limitations. Unfortunately, we now know that Valve in their latest large patch since then has not addressed it, just like they did not address the spy decloak bug that also had a step-by-step guide written for it (6 years ago!). While I think it was the right decision to publicize this exploit, it makes plain the continued pattern of Valve not caring about game-breaking exploits, which is clear to anybody who frequents this forum.
That should have been some sort of rallying point. Instead, people got caught up in discussing the philosophies of exposing exploits to the public, rather than what we should have been focusing on: legitimate fixes from and for our community in the form of our own promod that actually addresses our very real problems.
The downsides of forum discussion become very clear, very quickly when you try to read through everybody’s opinions and ideas. We get stuck in endless “what ifs” that lack any real scope (and sometimes, merit) and spend our time debating the boogeyman of the week instead of narrowing down our ideas to qualitative goals. Questions that need answers get buried by rebalancing offclasses, adding tutorials, remaking matchmaking or hosting pugs some nebulous new service, giving pyro a lightning gun, whatever. Meanwhile, we’re still stuck with an inconsistent experience that we actually have the power to fix.
This, just like the time before and the time before that, can be a wakeup call to focus on something that really matters, which is a fork of TF2 that is consistent, fixes what Valve clearly won’t, and gives the people who push the game forward the tools they need without reinventing from the ground up. Mastercomms just did this with TC2’s summer patch, and it looks amazing. Is that a jumping off point, or even a blueprint?
I’m not saying I have answers for who codes, funds, or maintains the crazy amount of work that a project like this would entail. I just wish we wouldn’t spin our wheels for a decade arguing over making a third global whitelist or anything that isn’t making our experience realistically any better. We’re playing the game now, why don’t we want to make the one we have stable instead of daydreaming about a totally different one?
Valve released the TF2 SDK in February, and immediately we all jumped in on a [url=https://www.teamfortress.tv/65415/tf2-promod]conversation about our own version of the game[/url], but [s]with blackjack and hookers[/s] improving the game on all fronts to better suit our needs, whatever those needs were. This conversation wasn’t even new, competitive-focused mods have been talked about for [url=https://www.teamfortress.tv/2037/if-you-could-make-a-difference]almost 12 years now[/url], at least from what I can find in TFTV discussions.
More recently than the release of the SDK comes a [url=https://www.teamfortress.tv/65791/vac-safe-wallhacks-aka-sv-pure-ignorez-bypass]wallhack exploit that was publicized[/url], with steps on how to achieve it, to perfectly bypass sv_pure limitations. Unfortunately, we now know that Valve in their latest large patch since then has not addressed it, just like they did not address the spy decloak bug that also had a step-by-step guide written for it (6 years ago!). While I think it was the right decision to publicize this exploit, it makes plain the continued pattern of Valve not caring about game-breaking exploits, which is clear to anybody who frequents this forum.
That should have been some sort of rallying point. Instead, people got caught up in discussing the philosophies of exposing exploits to the public, rather than what we should have been focusing on: legitimate fixes from and for our community in the form of our own promod that actually addresses our very real problems.
The downsides of forum discussion become very clear, very quickly when you try to read through everybody’s opinions and ideas. We get stuck in endless “what ifs” that lack any real scope (and sometimes, merit) and spend our time debating the [url=https://www.teamfortress.tv/38637/philosophical-question-about-whitelists-blacklists]boogeyman[/url] [url=https://www.teamfortress.tv/55666/prospective-promod-released-for-rgl-season-3]of[/url] [url=https://www.teamfortress.tv/44728/tf2-promod]the[/url] [url=https://www.teamfortress.tv/55770/rgl-promod-survey]week[/url] instead of narrowing down our ideas to qualitative goals. Questions that need answers get buried by rebalancing offclasses, adding tutorials, remaking matchmaking or hosting pugs some nebulous new service, giving pyro a lightning gun, whatever. Meanwhile, we’re still stuck with an inconsistent experience that we actually have the power to fix.
This, just like the time before and the time before that, can be a wakeup call to focus on something that really matters, which is a fork of TF2 that is consistent, fixes what Valve clearly won’t, and gives the people who push the game forward the tools they need without reinventing from the ground up. Mastercomms just did this with [url=https://staging.mastercomfig-site.pages.dev/tc2/updates/blockbuster/]TC2’s summer patch[/url], and it looks amazing. Is that a jumping off point, or even a blueprint?
I’m not saying I have answers for who codes, funds, or maintains the crazy amount of work that a project like this would entail. I just wish we wouldn’t spin our wheels for a decade arguing over making a third global whitelist or anything that isn’t making our experience realistically any better. We’re playing the game now, why don’t we want to make the one we have stable instead of daydreaming about a totally different one?
antlers i need producers to cover 6s playoffs alongside me and this is what you’ve been doing
on a serious note i do agree with you, though a lot of the community is all talk and no walk. but i don't think it's all doom and gloom as u make it out to be. Personally tho seeing people come together and try to do stuff like what we did at denver, what 4v4 pass time are doing to enhance their unique take on the game mode, and what the mge.tf crew did for their little mge tournament gives me hope that there is people willing to try to see through w their ambitions. i think we're in a way better spot than we were 2-3 years ago quite frankly
i will say though, speaking on the topic, if we ever lose resin (formerly dr underscore) then the broadcasting scene is fucked because hes the only programmer maintaining the plugins that allow producers to produce tf2 matches and for viewers to see damage numbers in a broadcast. he alone is the reason why the broadcast experience for tf2 has been elevated lol. very few programmers actually working on cool stuff behind the scenes and if we lose him welp its ggs cus idk who else is gonna maintain these plugins
antlers i need producers to cover 6s playoffs alongside me and this is what you’ve been doing
on a serious note i do agree with you, though a lot of the community is all talk and no walk. but i don't think it's all doom and gloom as u make it out to be. Personally tho seeing people come together and try to do stuff like what we did at denver, what 4v4 pass time are doing to enhance their unique take on the game mode, and what the mge.tf crew did for their little mge tournament gives me hope that there is people willing to try to see through w their ambitions. i think we're in a way better spot than we were 2-3 years ago quite frankly
i will say though, speaking on the topic, if we ever lose resin (formerly dr underscore) then the broadcasting scene is fucked because hes the only programmer maintaining the plugins that allow producers to produce tf2 matches and for viewers to see damage numbers in a broadcast. he alone is the reason why the broadcast experience for tf2 has been elevated lol. very few programmers actually working on cool stuff behind the scenes and if we lose him welp its ggs cus idk who else is gonna maintain these plugins
I am definitely interested in supporting the pro scene and providing a mod that offers a similar experience to current TF2, with improvements. I want Team Comtress 2 to essentially be a staging ground for things that could have/could be implemented in the main game, if Valve had a faster and more direct development approach like they once did. Moving the game forward is my main goal, and making it always feasible for Valve to integrate the changes one day, rather than breaking the game or doing a total conversion mod.
I think the main selling point besides helping Valve out is that features that are difficult to implement or maintain in server plugins can be easily achieved within the mod, along with client-side prediction support to keep things like movement and animations smooth. Additionally, this allows for fixing issues that can only be addressed on the client, such as some exploits and bugs, as well as introducing new UI elements.
We don't necessarily need to have all the answers up front. Open questions/ theories on things like balance, configs, and even other differences between regions can persist in the short term and be addressed through active development in the long term. Not everything has to be solved; we need to provide the best experience we can and make the game we all love a bit better, step by step.
I think people giving the mod a shot and seeing how it feels is an essential first step to getting the ball rolling. Not only will it provide ample feedback to take the mod further, but it will also make more people aware of how much better we can make the game, even with just one update's worth of changes.
I am definitely interested in supporting the pro scene and providing a mod that offers a similar experience to current TF2, with improvements. I want Team Comtress 2 to essentially be a staging ground for things that could have/could be implemented in the main game, if Valve had a faster and more direct development approach like they once did. Moving the game forward is my main goal, and making it always feasible for Valve to integrate the changes one day, rather than breaking the game or doing a total conversion mod.
I think the main selling point besides helping Valve out is that features that are difficult to implement or maintain in server plugins can be easily achieved within the mod, along with client-side prediction support to keep things like movement and animations smooth. Additionally, this allows for fixing issues that can only be addressed on the client, such as some exploits and bugs, as well as introducing new UI elements.
We don't necessarily need to have all the answers up front. Open questions/ theories on things like balance, configs, and even other differences between regions can persist in the short term and be addressed through active development in the long term. Not everything has to be solved; we need to provide the best experience we can and make the game we all love a bit better, step by step.
I think people giving the mod a shot and seeing how it feels is an essential first step to getting the ball rolling. Not only will it provide ample feedback to take the mod further, but it will also make more people aware of how much better we can make the game, even with just one update's worth of changes.
mastercomsI am definitely interested in supporting the pro scene and providing a mod that offers a similar experience to current TF2, with improvements. I want Team Comtress 2 to essentially be a staging ground for things that could have/could be implemented in the main game, if Valve had a faster and more direct development approach like they once did. Moving the game forward is my main goal, and making it always feasible for Valve to integrate the changes one day, rather than breaking the game or doing a total conversion mod.
I think the main selling point besides helping Valve out is that features that are difficult to implement or maintain in server plugins can be easily achieved within the mod, along with client-side prediction support to keep things like movement and animations smooth. Additionally, this allows for fixing issues that can only be addressed on the client, such as some exploits and bugs, as well as introducing new UI elements.
We don't necessarily need to have all the answers up front. Open questions/ theories on things like balance, configs, and even other differences between regions can persist in the short term and be addressed through active development in the long term. Not everything has to be solved; we need to provide the best experience we can and make the game we all love a bit better, step by step.
I think people giving the mod a shot and seeing how it feels is an essential first step to getting the ball rolling. Not only will it provide ample feedback to take the mod further, but it will also make more people aware of how much better we can make the game, even with just one update's worth of changes.
mcoms my fucking goat.
[quote=mastercoms]I am definitely interested in supporting the pro scene and providing a mod that offers a similar experience to current TF2, with improvements. I want Team Comtress 2 to essentially be a staging ground for things that could have/could be implemented in the main game, if Valve had a faster and more direct development approach like they once did. Moving the game forward is my main goal, and making it always feasible for Valve to integrate the changes one day, rather than breaking the game or doing a total conversion mod.
I think the main selling point besides helping Valve out is that features that are difficult to implement or maintain in server plugins can be easily achieved within the mod, along with client-side prediction support to keep things like movement and animations smooth. Additionally, this allows for fixing issues that can only be addressed on the client, such as some exploits and bugs, as well as introducing new UI elements.
We don't necessarily need to have all the answers up front. Open questions/ theories on things like balance, configs, and even other differences between regions can persist in the short term and be addressed through active development in the long term. Not everything has to be solved; we need to provide the best experience we can and make the game we all love a bit better, step by step.
I think people giving the mod a shot and seeing how it feels is an essential first step to getting the ball rolling. Not only will it provide ample feedback to take the mod further, but it will also make more people aware of how much better we can make the game, even with just one update's worth of changes.[/quote]
mcoms my fucking goat.