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The Unbanning of the Solemn Vow
posted in News
31
#31
44 Frags +

Anyone who didn't use solemn vow is either a mute medic, or an idiot. Information gotten from that weapon is ridiculous and downplayed in the article. Idk if people truly know how good winning a fight off of seeing a players health/uber% is. An unlock does this, not really any skill for the player using the weapon.

Bear said it right pretty much. Just shows most unlocks don't add anything but take away from the game.

Anyone who didn't use solemn vow is either a mute medic, or an idiot. Information gotten from that weapon is ridiculous and downplayed in the article. Idk if people truly know how good winning a fight off of seeing a players health/uber% is. An unlock does this, not really any skill for the player using the weapon.

Bear said it right pretty much. Just shows most unlocks don't add anything but take away from the game.
32
#32
-4 Frags +

I think what the Solemn Vow does is actually make actions more clear and communication better and that in turn helps the flow of the game be less stalemate-y, our format's main issue. I'm not exactly entitled to some super superior view here but my main / advanced scrims seem to go a lot better when both medics know EXACTLY what is going on, and can tell their teams suit.

Pushes happen faster, less people stupidly get out, ect ect.

Yeah, it takes some of the skill but I don't think that specific skill needs to be necessarily there anyway. It's not apparent to a new viewer, it's not observed or able to be judged by casters, and it makes the game harder to get into.

I think what the Solemn Vow does is actually make actions more clear and communication better and that in turn helps the flow of the game be less stalemate-y, our format's main issue. I'm not exactly entitled to some super superior view here but my main / advanced scrims [i]seem[/i] to go a lot better when both medics know EXACTLY what is going on, and can tell their teams suit.

Pushes happen faster, less people stupidly get out, ect ect.

Yeah, it takes some of the skill but I don't think that specific skill needs to be necessarily there anyway. It's not apparent to a new viewer, it's not observed or able to be judged by casters, and it makes the game harder to get into.
33
#33
-24 Frags +

Well in my humble opinion, of course without intending to offend anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking at this matter in a different way, and to make it clear, with the utmost respect, and by considering each and every one's opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say

Well in my humble opinion, of course without intending to offend anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking at this matter in a different way, and to make it clear, with the utmost respect, and by considering each and every one's opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say
34
#34
-7 Frags +

At least as far as being able to see uber %s goes, doesn't it just shift medic skill to 'actually building ubers' instead of just guessing them? since you don't have a spy to call uber %s you just assume they're building optimally but you never actually know, meaning that there are probably tons of cases of sub-optimal building going unpunished because there's no way to know and it's not worth basing a push around the assumption that your opponents are bad. while 'guessing/knowing enemy uber %s' based off of time may not be as necessary, i'd argue that it's more important to emphasize actual, tangible, skills (building ubers quickly) than making educated guesses, especially when those guesses do more to mask bad play than highlight good play. it also results in teams gaining more actionable information, increasing the pace of the game because these cases of suboptimal building are now actually pushable.

and while i don't think balancing around lower divs is an ideal strategy, i'd imagine less experienced medics will be able to improve more quickly if they consistently see feedback regarding their/their opponent's building

At least as far as being able to see uber %s goes, doesn't it just shift medic skill to 'actually building ubers' instead of just guessing them? since you don't have a spy to call uber %s you just assume they're building optimally but you never actually know, meaning that there are probably tons of cases of sub-optimal building going unpunished because there's no way to know and it's not worth basing a push around the assumption that your opponents are bad. while 'guessing/knowing enemy uber %s' based off of time may not be as necessary, i'd argue that it's more important to emphasize actual, tangible, skills (building ubers quickly) than making educated guesses, [i]especially[/i] when those guesses do more to mask bad play than highlight good play. it also results in teams gaining more actionable information, increasing the pace of the game because these cases of suboptimal building are now actually pushable.

and while i don't think balancing around lower divs is an ideal strategy, i'd imagine less experienced medics will be able to improve more quickly if they consistently see feedback regarding their/their opponent's building
35
#35
13 Frags +
AltoAt least as far as being able to see uber %s goes, doesn't it just shift medic skill to 'actually building ubers' instead of just guessing them? since you don't have a spy to call uber %s you just assume they're building optimally but you never actually know, meaning that there are probably tons of cases of sub-optimal building going unpunished because there's no way to know and it's not worth basing a push around the assumption that your opponents are bad. while 'guessing/knowing enemy uber %s' based off of time may not be as necessary, i'd argue that it's more important to emphasize actual, tangible, skills (building ubers quickly) than making educated guesses, especially when those guesses do more to mask bad play than highlight good play. it also results in teams gaining more actionable information, increasing the pace of the game because these cases of suboptimal building are now actually pushable.

and while i don't think balancing around lower divs is an ideal strategy, i'd imagine less experienced medics will be able to improve more quickly if they consistently see feedback regarding their/their opponent's building

Yeah man, bad take. People aren't really guessing at the top level of the game. Building uber isn't a skill, tracking ubers accurately is.

[quote=Alto]At least as far as being able to see uber %s goes, doesn't it just shift medic skill to 'actually building ubers' instead of just guessing them? since you don't have a spy to call uber %s you just assume they're building optimally but you never actually know, meaning that there are probably tons of cases of sub-optimal building going unpunished because there's no way to know and it's not worth basing a push around the assumption that your opponents are bad. while 'guessing/knowing enemy uber %s' based off of time may not be as necessary, i'd argue that it's more important to emphasize actual, tangible, skills (building ubers quickly) than making educated guesses, [i]especially[/i] when those guesses do more to mask bad play than highlight good play. it also results in teams gaining more actionable information, increasing the pace of the game because these cases of suboptimal building are now actually pushable.

and while i don't think balancing around lower divs is an ideal strategy, i'd imagine less experienced medics will be able to improve more quickly if they consistently see feedback regarding their/their opponent's building[/quote]

Yeah man, bad take. People aren't really guessing at the top level of the game. Building uber isn't a skill, tracking ubers accurately is.
36
#36
26 Frags +

How many more of these stupid 'leagues decide to unban a dumb weapon that can only negatively affect gameplay for absolutely no reason' things do we have to go through?

How many more of these stupid 'leagues decide to unban a dumb weapon that can only negatively affect gameplay for absolutely no reason' things do we have to go through?
37
#37
-19 Frags +

rgl unbanned it, played a whole season, and nobody bitched about it until now. If it were a real problem or used abusively, wouldnt the problem have been talked about earlier?

rgl unbanned it, played a whole season, and nobody bitched about it until now. If it were a real problem or used abusively, wouldnt the problem have been talked about earlier?
38
#38
26 Frags +
Twiggyrgl unbanned it, played a whole season, and nobody bitched about it until now. If it were a real problem or used abusively, wouldnt the problem have been talked about earlier?

People did talk about it earlier. I at least (and I'm sure some others did the same) gave it the benefit of the doubt and at least have played it all season to properly test the weapon. You can't expect people to give it a chance and playtest the weapon then turn around and say they don't have valid points to make about it post season. Now is the correct time to talk about it.

[quote=Twiggy]rgl unbanned it, played a whole season, and nobody bitched about it until now. If it were a real problem or used abusively, wouldnt the problem have been talked about earlier?[/quote]

People did talk about it earlier. I at least (and I'm sure some others did the same) gave it the benefit of the doubt and at least have played it all season to properly test the weapon. You can't expect people to give it a chance and playtest the weapon then turn around and say they don't have valid points to make about it post season. Now is the correct time to talk about it.
39
#39
-4 Frags +

Arrayseven says its a joke so I wouldn’t use it.

Arrayseven says its a joke so I wouldn’t use it.
40
#40
-4 Frags +

I always thought "top down" skill level banning wouldn't work in this situation. Whilst it makes minimal difference in the upper levels of play it has quite an impact at lower levels. Is that no longer being taken into account?

I always thought "top down" skill level banning wouldn't work in this situation. Whilst it makes minimal difference in the upper levels of play it has quite an impact at lower levels. Is that no longer being taken into account?
41
#41
-4 Frags +

i only advocate for its addition because i think there will be funnier item names for it than the ubersaw

i only advocate for its addition because i think there will be funnier item names for it than the ubersaw
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