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1 ⋅⋅ 6 7 8 9
nerf pyro
241
#241
24 Frags +

remove the class

remove the class
242
#242
19 Frags +

another bug that doesn't get mentioned much is that the healing debuff reduces healing by ~60% instead of 20%

another bug that doesn't get mentioned much is that the healing debuff reduces healing by ~60% instead of 20%
243
#243
-9 Frags +

Why not make flamethrower do progressively more damage for each flame particle that hits, then do a burst of ~100 dmg after 2 seconds worth of flame particles attach to someone? No more of this 80 damage total from one particle bs, rewards tracking (thin the flame hitbox and make less particles per second than current).

Why not make flamethrower do progressively more damage for each flame particle that hits, then do a burst of ~100 dmg after 2 seconds worth of flame particles attach to someone? No more of this 80 damage total from one particle bs, rewards tracking (thin the flame hitbox and make less particles per second than current).
244
#244
15 Frags +
paiCAll_Over_RShttps://clips.twitch.tv/BlueWittyPassionfruitTToursthis to end the discussion thank you :)

You see, greek didn't make any good play there, the pubbers just all fucked up by walking into his flames and not running away when they sensed his presence, therefore since they didn't give the class 5000% respect. They lost instantaneously with poor dm and bad decision making.

Pyro isn't broken, your mind just doesn't function on June's level.

[quote=paiC][quote=All_Over_RS]https://clips.twitch.tv/BlueWittyPassionfruitTTours[/quote]
this to end the discussion thank you :)[/quote]
You see, greek didn't make any good play there, the pubbers just all fucked up by walking into his flames and not running away when they sensed his presence, therefore since they didn't give the class 5000% respect. They lost instantaneously with poor dm and bad decision making.

Pyro isn't broken, your mind just doesn't function on June's level.
245
#245
3 Frags +
ssanother bug that doesn't get mentioned much is that the healing debuff reduces healing by ~60% instead of 20%

wait, what?

is this an actual bug?

[quote=ss]another bug that doesn't get mentioned much is that the healing debuff reduces healing by ~60% instead of 20%[/quote]
wait, what?

is this an actual bug?
246
#246
3 Frags +
viperssanother bug that doesn't get mentioned much is that the healing debuff reduces healing by ~60% instead of 20%wait, what?

is this an actual bug?

yeah. they somehow made the healing debuff the inverse of what the stat says.

[quote=viper][quote=ss]another bug that doesn't get mentioned much is that the healing debuff reduces healing by ~60% instead of 20%[/quote]
wait, what?

is this an actual bug?[/quote]
yeah. they somehow made the healing debuff the inverse of what the stat says.
247
#247
6 Frags +
viperwait, what?

is this an actual bug?

it's been like that since MYM and i even tested it today and i was getting ~10 hp/s instead of 24hp/s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYfx64j3BGc

[quote=viper]
wait, what?

is this an actual bug?[/quote]
it's been like that since MYM and i even tested it today and i was getting ~10 hp/s instead of 24hp/s
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYfx64j3BGc[/youtube]
248
#248
6 Frags +

I feel like people don't actually understand how pyro works considering the general confusion I have been seeing in these posts.

EDIT:
This video does a better job of explaining than I feel like researching/typing out.

These changes were made so that pyro would feel consistent when playing with bad network connection but it obviously opened a pretty horrible can of worms.
As for how heal reduction works, check out sigsegv's video on the matter. This is from MYM instead of jungle inferno, but many of the same quirks still persist.

Heal reduction aside, the changes to flame particles are consistent at the very least. Particles do not "double hit." They can interact with a player as many times as they touch him, but they do not randomly do double damage. Here is a video from the day after release of jungle inferno, where I get a flame particle to linger relatively stationary and one-shot light classes. I honestly thought by this point that the basics about how pyro currently works would be known considering the update has been out for almost half a year but I guess not.

THIS is where your frustrations should be directed at. Not at the actual damage per tick. Making pyro reward aim and traditional mechanical skill is forefront in making him have his own role in the game (ie: not a worse heavy/engineer or airblast bot) while also not making him feel like an overwatch hero.

I feel like people don't actually understand how pyro works considering the general confusion I have been seeing in these posts.

EDIT:
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nFAZSpJI88]This video does a better job of explaining than I feel like researching/typing out.[/url]

These changes were made so that pyro would feel consistent when playing with bad network connection but it obviously opened a pretty horrible can of worms.
As for how heal reduction works, [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYfx64j3BGc]check out sigsegv's video on the matter[/url]. This is from MYM instead of jungle inferno, but many of the same quirks still persist.

Heal reduction aside, the changes to flame particles are consistent at the very least. Particles do not "double hit." They can interact with a player as many times as they touch him, but they do not randomly do double damage. [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m__Dlpw7iEY]Here is a video from the day after release of jungle inferno, where I get a flame particle to linger relatively stationary and one-shot light classes.[/url] I honestly thought by this point that the basics about how pyro currently works would be known considering the update has been out for almost half a year but I guess not.

[b]THIS[/b] is where your frustrations should be directed at. Not at the actual damage per tick. Making pyro reward aim and traditional mechanical skill is forefront in making him have his own role in the game (ie: not a worse heavy/engineer or airblast bot) while also not making him feel like an overwatch hero.
249
#249
5 Frags +

Make the flamethrower overheat and have to cooldown if held down for too long.

Make the flamethrower overheat and have to cooldown if held down for too long.
250
#250
-4 Frags +

ban the pyro class
tf2 becomes a real game again

ban the pyro class
tf2 becomes a real game again
251
#251
14 Frags +
YohnMake the flamethrower overheat and have to cooldown if held down for too long.

https://cdn.dopl3r.com/memes_files/its-burning-my-hand-steve-and-i-fucking-love-it-AubDq.jpg

i second this

[quote=Yohn]Make the flamethrower overheat and have to cooldown if held down for too long.[/quote]

[img]https://cdn.dopl3r.com/memes_files/its-burning-my-hand-steve-and-i-fucking-love-it-AubDq.jpg[/img]

i second this
252
#252
13 Frags +

from the top of my head I can't think of a single corner in a comp map that you could take wide enough to not get into flamethrower range...

about holding S, maybe I'm just terrible, but when I do manage to stay out of range as scout, I'm so far away that i can do at most like 40dmg per shot while not seeing the pyro through the flames and having to know the geometry of the map backwards perfectly to not get stuck for a second and die.

from the top of my head I can't think of a single corner in a comp map that you could take wide enough to not get into flamethrower range...

about holding S, maybe I'm just terrible, but when I do manage to stay out of range as scout, I'm so far away that i can do at most like 40dmg per shot while not seeing the pyro through the flames and having to know the geometry of the map backwards perfectly to not get stuck for a second and die.
253
#253
7 Frags +
xTcfrom the top of my head I can't think of a single corner in a comp map that you could take wide enough to not get into flamethrower range...

about holding S, maybe I'm just terrible, but when I do manage to stay out of range as scout, I'm so far away that i can do at most like 40dmg per shot while not seeing the pyro through the flames and having to know the geometry of the map backwards perfectly to not get stuck for a second and die.

Not to mention you can't actually see the Pyro half the time because of how obstructive the flame particles are

[quote=xTc]from the top of my head I can't think of a single corner in a comp map that you could take wide enough to not get into flamethrower range...

about holding S, maybe I'm just terrible, but when I do manage to stay out of range as scout, I'm so far away that i can do at most like 40dmg per shot while not seeing the pyro through the flames and having to know the geometry of the map backwards perfectly to not get stuck for a second and die.[/quote]
Not to mention you can't actually see the Pyro half the time because of how obstructive the flame particles are
254
#254
37 Frags +
4812622Your argument was that Pyro should be banned because killing people doesn't take mechanical skill. Surely, any person to die to something that takes no mechanical skill is a tragedy that we must never allow to happen again, since this is an FPS, and aim is sacred, right?

yea

[quote=4812622]
Your argument was that Pyro should be banned because killing people doesn't take mechanical skill. Surely, any person to die to something that takes no mechanical skill is a tragedy that we must never allow to happen again, since this is an FPS, and aim is sacred, right?
[/quote]

yea
255
#255
17 Frags +
Batslug4812622Your argument was that Pyro should be banned because killing people doesn't take mechanical skill. Surely, any person to die to something that takes no mechanical skill is a tragedy that we must never allow to happen again, since this is an FPS, and aim is sacred, right?
yea
[quote=Batslug][quote=4812622]
Your argument was that Pyro should be banned because killing people doesn't take mechanical skill. Surely, any person to die to something that takes no mechanical skill is a tragedy that we must never allow to happen again, since this is an FPS, and aim is sacred, right?
[/quote]

yea[/quote]
256
#256
4 Frags +
4812622There is a difference between an argument and an opinion. Despite the fact that Jon_ played one season of UGC Steel, their argument matters. Their opinion does not.

When Jon_ says "Yikes" and refuses to respond to 90% of my argument, he is not arguing, he is stating his opinion - "I disagree." Which, again, doesn't matter.

Well the only reason I have only played UGC Steel is because of work and life, hell, I'd love to play tf2 at Invite level one day but like I said before my studies come first.

I said "yikes" because at that point I realized there is gonna be no end to this conversation so I just decided ended it on that on that note. Surprised to see that you actually went ahead and looked me up.

4812622Pyro takes significantly more thought than Medic.

What ?

[quote=4812622]There is a difference between an argument and an opinion. Despite the fact that Jon_ played one season of UGC Steel, their argument matters. Their opinion does not.

When Jon_ says "Yikes" and refuses to respond to 90% of my argument, he is not arguing, he is stating his opinion - "I disagree." Which, again, doesn't matter.[/quote]

Well the only reason I have only played UGC Steel is because of work and life, hell, I'd love to play tf2 at Invite level one day but like I said before my studies come first.

I said "yikes" because at that point I realized there is gonna be no end to this conversation so I just decided ended it on that on that note. Surprised to see that you actually went ahead and looked me up.

[quote=4812622]
Pyro takes significantly more thought than Medic.[/quote]

[url=https://i.imgur.com/NErFV6F.gif]What ?[/url]
257
#257
26 Frags +

imagine writing 10000 words about why pyro is a fair class and every single other tf2 player is wrong

imagine writing 10000 words about why pyro is a fair class and every single other tf2 player is wrong
258
#258
7 Frags +
Daffodil-Heal reduction aside, the changes to flame particles are consistent at the very least. Particles do not "double hit." They can interact with a player as many times as they touch him, but they do not randomly do double damage. Here is a video from the day after release of jungle inferno, where I get a flame particle to linger relatively stationary and one-shot light classes. I honestly thought by this point that the basics about how pyro currently works would be known considering the update has been out for almost half a year but I guess not.

THIS is where your frustrations should be directed at. Not at the actual damage per tick. Making pyro reward aim and traditional mechanical skill is forefront in making him have his own role in the game (ie: not a worse heavy/engineer or airblast bot) while also not making him feel like an overwatch hero.

i dont think the argument has ever been that pyro does more damage.. its been pretty well known that its cap is around 140-ish dps post JI. its that it is immensely easy to hit this cap and stay at it without any skill while also hitting multiple targets at once and airblasting/phlog crits

[quote=Daffodil-]Heal reduction aside, the changes to flame particles are consistent at the very least. Particles do not "double hit." They can interact with a player as many times as they touch him, but they do not randomly do double damage. [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m__Dlpw7iEY]Here is a video from the day after release of jungle inferno, where I get a flame particle to linger relatively stationary and one-shot light classes.[/url] I honestly thought by this point that the basics about how pyro currently works would be known considering the update has been out for almost half a year but I guess not.

[b]THIS[/b] is where your frustrations should be directed at. Not at the actual damage per tick. Making pyro reward aim and traditional mechanical skill is forefront in making him have his own role in the game (ie: not a worse heavy/engineer or airblast bot) while also not making him feel like an overwatch hero.[/quote]

i dont think the argument has ever been that pyro does more damage.. its been pretty well known that its cap is around 140-ish dps post JI. its that it is immensely easy to hit this cap and stay at it without any skill while also hitting multiple targets at once and airblasting/phlog crits
259
#259
-4 Frags +
All_Over_RSi dont think the argument has ever been that pyro does more damage.. its been pretty well known that its cap is around 140-ish dps post JI. its that it is immensely easy to hit this cap and stay at it without any skill while also hitting multiple targets at once and airblasting/phlog crits

Part of my post was directed at people who were claiming pyro was heavily bugged and glitchy, but other than that I said almost exactly the same thing as you . Pyro doesn't reward much in the way of mechanical skill. There is some overhead in the skill ceiling for bursting players (Panic attack + Degreaser is in theory the fastest time to kill for light classes in the game, for instance) but the class honestly feels like it plays like a tf2 version of Winston.
Flame particles are working as intended (as easy as they are) and, as far as I am aware, even airblasting after changes is predictable if you know what to look for. The class isn't bugged beyond repair, it is just that easy by design. I think its dumb, so do many other players.

[quote=All_Over_RS]i dont think the argument has ever been that pyro does more damage.. its been pretty well known that its cap is around 140-ish dps post JI. its that it is immensely easy to hit this cap and stay at it without any skill while also hitting multiple targets at once and airblasting/phlog crits[/quote]
Part of my post was directed at people who were claiming pyro was heavily bugged and glitchy, but other than that I said almost exactly the same thing as you . Pyro doesn't reward much in the way of mechanical skill. There is some overhead in the skill ceiling for bursting players (Panic attack + Degreaser is in theory the fastest time to kill for light classes in the game, for instance) but the class honestly feels like it plays like a tf2 version of Winston.
Flame particles are working as intended (as easy as they are) and, as far as I am aware, even airblasting after changes is predictable if you know what to look for. The class isn't bugged beyond repair, it is just that easy by design. I think its dumb, so do many other players.
260
#260
-4 Frags +

https://clips.twitch.tv/AdventurousProductiveAmazonKeyboardCat

https://clips.twitch.tv/AdventurousProductiveAmazonKeyboardCat
261
#261
3 Frags +
perfectionhttps://clips.twitch.tv/AdventurousProductiveAmazonKeyboardCat

https://clips.twitch.tv/EphemeralInterestingOpossumBigBrother

[quote=perfection]https://clips.twitch.tv/AdventurousProductiveAmazonKeyboardCat[/quote]

https://clips.twitch.tv/EphemeralInterestingOpossumBigBrother
262
#262
5 Frags +

"Flamethrowers were able to do full damage regardless of the spread of their flames, rewarding maximizing flame spread over focusing on a target. We've made changes geared toward preserving the current damage range of flamethrowers, but requiring better aim to do so.
Flame damage per second now ramps up based on density of flame encountered, up to 200%
Initial flame damage per second reduced by 50%, resulting in the max damage being unchanged"

what yall think

"Flamethrowers were able to do full damage regardless of the spread of their flames, rewarding maximizing flame spread over focusing on a target. We've made changes geared toward preserving the current damage range of flamethrowers, but requiring better aim to do so.
Flame damage per second now ramps up based on density of flame encountered, up to 200%
Initial flame damage per second reduced by 50%, resulting in the max damage being unchanged"

what yall think
263
#263
2 Frags +

it's okay in terms of balance (m1 won't be really effective against good players because you have plenty more time to shoot the pyro down now) but still pretty shit design (they haven't addressed any issues with hit registration and it's still possible to flail around and do consistent damage with flames. The requiring aim bit is a complete lie)

I think it's basically put pyro back in the "lame to play against but not really viable class except in very specific situations" pile

it's okay in terms of balance (m1 won't be really effective against good players because you have plenty more time to shoot the pyro down now) but still pretty shit design (they haven't addressed any issues with hit registration and it's still possible to flail around and do consistent damage with flames. The requiring aim bit is a complete lie)

I think it's basically put pyro back in the "lame to play against but not really viable class except in very specific situations" pile
264
#264
0 Frags +

i still think the skill ceiling for flames is pretty low

i still think the skill ceiling for flames is pretty low
265
#265
0 Frags +
4hpit's okay in terms of balance (m1 won't be really effective against good players because you have plenty more time to shoot the pyro down now) but still pretty shit design (they haven't addressed any issues with hit registration and it's still possible to flail around and do consistent damage with flames. The requiring aim bit is a complete lie)

I think it's basically put pyro back in the "lame to play against but not really viable class except in very specific situations" pile

im hip
valve needa stop fuckin with the weapons and focus on flames
once u fix flames u fix hit reg and damage instead of puttin it 2nd to weapon nerfs that barely balance shit

[quote=4hp]it's okay in terms of balance (m1 won't be really effective against good players because you have plenty more time to shoot the pyro down now) but still pretty shit design (they haven't addressed any issues with hit registration and it's still possible to flail around and do consistent damage with flames. The requiring aim bit is a complete lie)

I think it's basically put pyro back in the "lame to play against but not really viable class except in very specific situations" pile[/quote]

im hip
valve needa stop fuckin with the weapons and focus on flames
once u fix flames u fix hit reg and damage instead of puttin it 2nd to weapon nerfs that barely balance shit
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