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ZZ's idea for making 6s better
1
#1
0 Frags +

when you get to 100% uber you start leaking and losing uber

that way holding a choke for minutes on end is a bad idea ;)

when you get to 100% uber you start leaking and losing uber

that way holding a choke for minutes on end is a bad idea ;)
2
#2
9 Frags +

when exactly do you get uber again?

when exactly do you get uber again?
3
#3
1 Frags +

u gotta wait for it all to leak out to start building again

u gotta wait for it all to leak out to start building again
4
#4
31 Frags +

you actually have to press m2 on the same tick you get uber to use it at all

you actually have to press m2 on the same tick you get uber to use it at all
5
#5
23 Frags +

awful idea

awful idea
6
#6
-7 Frags +
yamayou actually have to press m2 on the same tick you get uber to use it at all

nah like you get to 100% and it starts draining but you can still use

so if you wait 10 seconds after getting it to use you'll have 75% and only 6 seconds of ubercharge

[quote=yama]you actually have to press m2 on the same tick you get uber to use it at all[/quote]
nah like you get to 100% and it starts draining but you can still use

so if you wait 10 seconds after getting it to use you'll have 75% and only 6 seconds of ubercharge
7
#7
13 Frags +
eeeyamayou actually have to press m2 on the same tick you get uber to use it at allnah like you get to 100% and it starts draining but you can still use

so if you wait 10 seconds after getting it to use you'll have 75% and only 6 seconds of ubercharge

so if u wipe the enemy team at mid and maybe their med escapes you basically lose since youll have less uber than they will when he starts healing again

[quote=eee][quote=yama]you actually have to press m2 on the same tick you get uber to use it at all[/quote]
nah like you get to 100% and it starts draining but you can still use

so if you wait 10 seconds after getting it to use you'll have 75% and only 6 seconds of ubercharge[/quote]

so if u wipe the enemy team at mid and maybe their med escapes you basically lose since youll have less uber than they will when he starts healing again
8
#8
-1 Frags +
fahrenheiteeeyamayou actually have to press m2 on the same tick you get uber to use it at allnah like you get to 100% and it starts draining but you can still use

so if you wait 10 seconds after getting it to use you'll have 75% and only 6 seconds of ubercharge

so if u wipe the enemy team at mid and maybe their med escapes you basically lose since youll have less uber than they will when he starts healing again

nonono you misunderstand
what the med does is actually stop healing at 99% until they see the enemy med

[quote=fahrenheit][quote=eee][quote=yama]you actually have to press m2 on the same tick you get uber to use it at all[/quote]
nah like you get to 100% and it starts draining but you can still use

so if you wait 10 seconds after getting it to use you'll have 75% and only 6 seconds of ubercharge[/quote]

so if u wipe the enemy team at mid and maybe their med escapes you basically lose since youll have less uber than they will when he starts healing again[/quote]
nonono you misunderstand
what the med does is actually stop healing at 99% until they see the enemy med
9
#9
6 Frags +
yamafahrenheiteeeyamayou actually have to press m2 on the same tick you get uber to use it at allnah like you get to 100% and it starts draining but you can still use

so if you wait 10 seconds after getting it to use you'll have 75% and only 6 seconds of ubercharge

so if u wipe the enemy team at mid and maybe their med escapes you basically lose since youll have less uber than they will when he starts healing again
nonono you misunderstand
what the med does is actually stop healing at 99% until they see the enemy med

ok so your med has to stop healing your team or else he risks getting uber and having it decay, so if anyone who is very hurt like your pocket or demo they would have to leave to find a pack

i do think ubercharge decay could be a good idea for faster paced gameplay i just think 25% every 10 seconds is too steep

[quote=yama][quote=fahrenheit][quote=eee][quote=yama]you actually have to press m2 on the same tick you get uber to use it at all[/quote]
nah like you get to 100% and it starts draining but you can still use

so if you wait 10 seconds after getting it to use you'll have 75% and only 6 seconds of ubercharge[/quote]

so if u wipe the enemy team at mid and maybe their med escapes you basically lose since youll have less uber than they will when he starts healing again[/quote]
nonono you misunderstand
what the med does is actually stop healing at 99% until they see the enemy med[/quote]

ok so your med has to stop healing your team or else he risks getting uber and having it decay, so if anyone who is very hurt like your pocket or demo they would have to leave to find a pack

i do think ubercharge decay could be a good idea for faster paced gameplay i just think 25% every 10 seconds is too steep
10
#10
0 Frags +

Obviously there are some implementation issues with this idea that others have pointed out, but developed properly I don't see why uber degradation can't be used as a way to encourage fights. The issue this idea tries to address is that no team wants to risk using an uber while risking being unable to pop the other team's uber, nor do they want to lose players trying to force and give the opposing team a chance to push. So an easy solution is to make uber something you have to pop.

What if uber only built while healing hurt players, and slowly drained while not healing or giving overheals? Would be even more effective at encouraging fights if self-damage didn't count towards uber.

A couple of details to consider; trying to avoid minor issues that people are gonna want to harp on.

1. While not healing, ubercharge drains at a rate of 1%/sec. I think that should be the max rate considered, slower might be better.
2. Uber does not charge while giving overheals.
3. After a certain time period of giving overheals, uber will start to drain. I'm thinking at least 10 seconds.
4. Self damage does not count as uber heals. Keeps teams from settling into the exact same stalemates as always except with one player who's just shooting himself in the face constantly

So now teams can still slow down here and there, which I think is important for both players for thinking things through and commentators so they can maybe say some interesting things, but the no-risk eternal turtle hold dies since at least one player needs to get close enough to consistently take damage from enemies and risk getting caught out.

Obviously there are some implementation issues with this idea that others have pointed out, but developed properly I don't see why uber degradation can't be used as a way to encourage fights. The issue this idea tries to address is that no team wants to risk using an uber while risking being unable to pop the other team's uber, nor do they want to lose players trying to force and give the opposing team a chance to push. So an easy solution is to make uber something you have to pop.

What if uber only built while healing hurt players, and slowly drained while not healing or giving overheals? Would be even more effective at encouraging fights if self-damage didn't count towards uber.

A couple of details to consider; trying to avoid minor issues that people are gonna want to harp on.

1. While not healing, ubercharge drains at a rate of 1%/sec. I think that should be the max rate considered, slower might be better.
2. Uber does not charge while giving overheals.
3. After a certain time period of giving overheals, uber will start to drain. I'm thinking at least 10 seconds.
4. Self damage does not count as uber heals. Keeps teams from settling into the exact same stalemates as always except with one player who's just shooting himself in the face constantly

So now teams can still slow down here and there, which I think is important for both players for thinking things through and commentators so they can maybe say some interesting things, but the no-risk eternal turtle hold dies since at least one player needs to get close enough to consistently take damage from enemies and risk getting caught out.
11
#11
-1 Frags +

How about your uber is most potent the first 10 second you have, and every ten seconds that you hold on to an uber the length of the uber decreases by a second until a certain limit (you dont want an uber that does absolutely nothing)

How about your uber is most potent the first 10 second you have, and every ten seconds that you hold on to an uber the length of the uber decreases by a second until a certain limit (you dont want an uber that does absolutely nothing)
12
#12
6 Frags +

This is all a very bad idea...

This is all a very bad idea...
13
#13
1 Frags +

The problem is this gives an even bigger advantage to teams attacking 4th/last points. Imagine you are holding gullywash last with even ubers. You have to sit back while you build your uber because going too aggressive in lobby is an easy way to get wiped and lose the round. Unbeknownst to you the other team spawns a heavy and puts him on top of second point, and at this point you've already waited around for a bit after getting an uber expecting a sac.

At this point it doesn't matter that the enemy team also doesn't have uber, they have no chance of a successful push out of last when they have a weak or no uber to get thru chokes and force an even fight. I think defensive offclasses are a good way of making sure that while winning mid gives you a good advantage in a round, it's not a free win, but this change would mean you can just wait for both teams to lose uber and then do whatever dumb shit you want (slow pushes on process far right with a sniper where they can't uber trade into you, bombing soldiers on to point on gullywash and walking a heavy in up to, etc)

The problem is this gives an even bigger advantage to teams attacking 4th/last points. Imagine you are holding gullywash last with even ubers. You have to sit back while you build your uber because going too aggressive in lobby is an easy way to get wiped and lose the round. Unbeknownst to you the other team spawns a heavy and puts him on top of second point, and at this point you've already waited around for a bit after getting an uber expecting a sac.

At this point it doesn't matter that the enemy team also doesn't have uber, they have no chance of a successful push out of last when they have a weak or no uber to get thru chokes and force an even fight. I think defensive offclasses are a good way of making sure that while winning mid gives you a good advantage in a round, it's not a free win, but this change would mean you can just wait for both teams to lose uber and then do whatever dumb shit you want (slow pushes on process far right with a sniper where they can't uber trade into you, bombing soldiers on to point on gullywash and walking a heavy in up to, etc)
14
#14
33 Frags +

when u get uber u have 50/50 chance to explode!!!!!

when u get uber u have 50/50 chance to explode!!!!!
15
#15
-3 Frags +

Uh, none of this can be implemented without modding the game?

Uh, none of this can be implemented without modding the game?
16
#16
15 Frags +

new idea: not healing builds your uber

new idea: not healing builds your uber
17
#17
0 Frags +
saamThe problem is this gives an even bigger advantage to teams attacking 4th/last points. Imagine you are holding gullywash last with even ubers. You have to sit back while you build your uber because going too aggressive in lobby is an easy way to get wiped and lose the round. Unbeknownst to you the other team spawns a heavy and puts him on top of second point, and at this point you've already waited around for a bit after getting an uber expecting a sac. At this point it doesn't matter that the enemy team also doesn't have uber, they have no chance of a successful push out of last when they have a weak or no uber to get thru chokes and force an even fight. I think defensive offclasses are a good way of making sure that while winning mid gives you a good advantage in a round, it's not a free win, but this change would mean you can just wait for both teams to lose uber and then do whatever dumb shit you want (slow pushes on process far right with a sniper where they can't uber trade into you, bombing soldiers on to point on gullywash and walking a heavy in up to, etc)

As it is, if you want to push last you either need a sizable uber ad or you need to keep sacing players until you create one, or give up and go for the sniper. I don't see why uber degredation makes bringing a heavy to push into last any more viable than before, but even if it does, I feel that giving attacking teams a reason to push (as opposed to standing around waiting for picks) is a positive change.

More importantly, I don't think that teams actually losing uber would be a major factor with this change, as long as the uber drain is slow enough. What this really encourages is players getting caught out. In your example of holding Gully last, yes, holding your whole team in lobby is an easy way to get wiped--but you don't really have to do that. In order to maintain your uber, both teams would just need one dude standing close enough to consistently take spam. This isn't enough to guarantee a team gets wiped trying to maintain uber, but it does give the other team a better reason to play aggressively, trying to catch that risk player.

Sure, one team could decide to just sit around and not spam, but that would let the other team get really close and execute effective sac plays.

[quote=saam]The problem is this gives an even bigger advantage to teams attacking 4th/last points. Imagine you are holding gullywash last with even ubers. You have to sit back while you build your uber because going too aggressive in lobby is an easy way to get wiped and lose the round. Unbeknownst to you the other team spawns a heavy and puts him on top of second point, and at this point you've already waited around for a bit after getting an uber expecting a sac. At this point it doesn't matter that the enemy team also doesn't have uber, they have no chance of a successful push out of last when they have a weak or no uber to get thru chokes and force an even fight. I think defensive offclasses are a good way of making sure that while winning mid gives you a good advantage in a round, it's not a free win, but this change would mean you can just wait for both teams to lose uber and then do whatever dumb shit you want (slow pushes on process far right with a sniper where they can't uber trade into you, bombing soldiers on to point on gullywash and walking a heavy in up to, etc)
[/quote]
As it is, if you want to push last you either need a sizable uber ad or you need to keep sacing players until you create one, or give up and go for the sniper. I don't see why uber degredation makes bringing a heavy to push into last any more viable than before, but even if it does, I feel that giving attacking teams a reason to push (as opposed to standing around waiting for picks) is a positive change.

More importantly, I don't think that teams actually losing uber would be a major factor with this change, as long as the uber drain is slow enough. What this really encourages is players getting caught out. In your example of holding Gully last, yes, holding your whole team in lobby is an easy way to get wiped--but you don't really have to do that. In order to maintain your uber, both teams would just need one dude standing close enough to consistently take spam. This isn't enough to guarantee a team gets wiped trying to maintain uber, but it does give the other team a better reason to play aggressively, trying to catch that risk player.

Sure, one team could decide to just sit around and not spam, but that would let the other team get really close and execute effective sac plays.
18
#18
12 Frags +

they should add a 10th class: the pirate

they should add a 10th class: the pirate
19
#19
4 Frags +

this site has gone down hill since mana left us to go to magfest :(

this site has gone down hill since mana left us to go to magfest :(
20
#20
0 Frags +
fahrenheiteeeyamayou actually have to press m2 on the same tick you get uber to use it at allnah like you get to 100% and it starts draining but you can still use

so if you wait 10 seconds after getting it to use you'll have 75% and only 6 seconds of ubercharge

so if u wipe the enemy team at mid and maybe their med escapes you basically lose since youll have less uber than they will when he starts healing again

would only happen if you played terribly tbh

the only way the enemy team could have the advantage is if they started pushing right as you hit the minimum uber you could have (before they start draining) which honestly is the exact sort of shit that needs to be encouraged more in TF2 rn. the game died because its boring as sin to stare at chokepoints and wait for advantages to appear

itd change the game but just because "win mid" no longer means you cap second and hold insane momentum doesnt make it a bad change

[quote=fahrenheit][quote=eee][quote=yama]you actually have to press m2 on the same tick you get uber to use it at all[/quote]
nah like you get to 100% and it starts draining but you can still use

so if you wait 10 seconds after getting it to use you'll have 75% and only 6 seconds of ubercharge[/quote]

so if u wipe the enemy team at mid and maybe their med escapes you basically lose since youll have less uber than they will when he starts healing again[/quote]
would only happen if you played terribly tbh

the only way the enemy team could have the advantage is if they started pushing right as you hit the minimum uber you could have (before they start draining) which honestly is the exact sort of shit that needs to be encouraged more in TF2 rn. the game died because its boring as sin to stare at chokepoints and wait for advantages to appear

itd change the game but just because "win mid" no longer means you cap second and hold insane momentum doesnt make it a bad change
21
#21
2 Frags +
DirtyMortthey should add a 10th class: the pirate

underrated post tbh we need more diversity and more wepons and playstyles if we want valve to give us free esports money i think tbh

[quote=DirtyMort]they should add a 10th class: the pirate[/quote]
underrated post tbh we need more diversity and more wepons and playstyles if we want valve to give us free esports money i think tbh
22
#22
5 Frags +

I refuse to read this thread

I refuse to read this thread
23
#23
-1 Frags +
saam)

I'm honestly having trouble visualizing what you're saying but if I'm right it really just seems like you're assuming people would play 100% the same way they do now

if you get an advantage for not holding your uber both teams would be incentivized to avoid situations where they sit on either side of a chokepoint and build, which would be the set up for yr situation. the idea would be to prevent the set up from ever happening which makes the rest of the idea kind of pointless to discuss. if both sides are aware of it as a mechanic they wouldn't play like they do now. Aggressive teams would be saccing players and hope they spawn before uber is filled or drained, rather than now where people are far more passive on saccing or offclassing.

[quote=saam])[/quote]

I'm honestly having trouble visualizing what you're saying but if I'm right it really just seems like you're assuming people would play 100% the same way they do now

if you get an advantage for not holding your uber both teams would be incentivized to avoid situations where they sit on either side of a chokepoint and build, which would be the set up for yr situation. the idea would be to prevent the set up from ever happening which makes the rest of the idea kind of pointless to discuss. if both sides are aware of it as a mechanic they wouldn't play like they do now. Aggressive teams would be saccing players and hope they spawn before uber is filled or drained, rather than now where people are far more passive on saccing or offclassing.
24
#24
4 Frags +

Arrows shouldn't add to über
remove that shit
uber should be gained from the damage the heal target is doing.

Arrows shouldn't add to über
remove that shit
uber should be gained from the damage the heal target is doing.
25
#25
5 Frags +
wtzArrows shouldn't add to über
remove that shit
uber should be gained from the damage the heal target is doing.

Then you would just have the pocket waddle around with the shogun all the time, tanking all the heals so he would do enough damage to get uber.

[quote=wtz]Arrows shouldn't add to über
remove that shit
uber should be gained from the damage the heal target is doing.[/quote]

Then you would just have the pocket waddle around with the shogun all the time, tanking all the heals so he would do enough damage to get uber.
26
#26
0 Frags +
eeeif you get an advantage for not holding your uber both teams would be incentivized to avoid situations where they sit on either side of a chokepoint and build, which would be the set up for yr situation. the idea would be to prevent the set up from ever happening which makes the rest of the idea kind of pointless to discuss. if both sides are aware of it as a mechanic they wouldn't play like they do now. Aggressive teams would be saccing players and hope they spawn before uber is filled or drained, rather than now where people are far more passive on saccing or offclassing.

no, only the losing team is looking to push faster - the winning team doesn't care because the shorter the ubers are, the easier it is for them to continue holding the same choke, so they have a larger reward for doing nothing

you only get an advantage for using an uber earlier if that uber is useful in any way, pushing uber vs uber with 1 pick isn't even good half the time, so pushing 8 seconds uber vs even a 4 second uber, is still not a relevant enough advantage that warrants actually pushing off it

[quote=eee]
if you get an advantage for not holding your uber both teams would be incentivized to avoid situations where they sit on either side of a chokepoint and build, which would be the set up for yr situation. the idea would be to prevent the set up from ever happening which makes the rest of the idea kind of pointless to discuss. if both sides are aware of it as a mechanic they wouldn't play like they do now. Aggressive teams would be saccing players and hope they spawn before uber is filled or drained, rather than now where people are far more passive on saccing or offclassing.[/quote]

no, only the losing team is looking to push faster - the winning team doesn't care because the shorter the ubers are, the easier it is for them to continue holding the same choke, so they have a larger reward for doing nothing

you only get an advantage for using an uber earlier if that uber is useful in any way, pushing uber vs uber with 1 pick isn't even good half the time, so pushing 8 seconds uber vs even a 4 second uber, is still not a relevant enough advantage that warrants actually pushing off it
27
#27
3 Frags +
BBiA_duchesswtzArrows shouldn't add to über
remove that shit
uber should be gained from the damage the heal target is doing.

Then you would just have the pocket waddle around with the shogun all the time, tanking all the heals so he would do enough damage to get uber.

http://puu.sh/teUmM/f3c4729b70.jpg

"yes"

[quote=BBiA_duchess][quote=wtz]Arrows shouldn't add to über
remove that shit
uber should be gained from the damage the heal target is doing.[/quote]

Then you would just have the pocket waddle around with the shogun all the time, tanking all the heals so he would do enough damage to get uber.[/quote]

[img]http://puu.sh/teUmM/f3c4729b70.jpg[/img]
"yes"
28
#28
0 Frags +

make tf2 promod and remove the shitty unlocks and get rid of the med speed boost when healing scouts like someone said in another thread thatll make this game not look like a shit show and itd make it slow as fuck and boring to watch but its more fun that way than it is now

make tf2 promod and remove the shitty unlocks and get rid of the med speed boost when healing scouts like someone said in another thread thatll make this game not look like a shit show and itd make it slow as fuck and boring to watch but its more fun that way than it is now
29
#29
0 Frags +
BBiA_duchesswtzArrows shouldn't add to über
remove that shit
uber should be gained from the damage the heal target is doing.

Then you would just have the pocket waddle around with the shogun all the time, tanking all the heals so he would do enough damage to get uber.

that would never happen because nobody would degrade themselves like that.

[quote=BBiA_duchess][quote=wtz]Arrows shouldn't add to über
remove that shit
uber should be gained from the damage the heal target is doing.[/quote]

Then you would just have the pocket waddle around with the shogun all the time, tanking all the heals so he would do enough damage to get uber.[/quote]
that would never happen because nobody would degrade themselves like that.
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