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Updating cp_snakewater
121
#121
5 Frags +

Looks like 2 sets of stairs on top of each other.
Red last only.

http://i.imgur.com/cfpa7GN.jpg

Looks like 2 sets of stairs on top of each other.
Red last only.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/cfpa7GN.jpg[/img]
122
#122
2 Frags +
BilbertWhy can't you connect the flatcar crates on top to create a flat surface, but keep the gaps for spam? That would prevent the gaps from swallowing rockets fired downward from bombs, but allow horizontal spam rockets to pass through. Instead of mesh, you could lay a thin piece of sheet metal on top to make it visually apparent that the crates work differently from those on Badlands. Or you could change the prop on the flatcar to something more fitting for this shape, like piles of lumber. http://i.imgur.com/YjwBve0.jpg

Nobody uses the gaps for spam anyway. What sense does it make to have gaps between boxes and planks on top of them?

Bilbert There's a clipbrush here, too. In my opinion, it doesn't matter for rocket jumping. I have never seen anyone jump off this wall. It doesn't help you get anywhere and it would be a left-handed jump anyway. It's nice to have the clipbrush for Scouts though, as they will no longer get caught on that overhang.
http://i.imgur.com/35Opiig.jpg

It doen't matter for rocket jumping unless you do a

Bilbertleft-handed jump

into saw or onto the shack on mid. Therefore it has a use...

[quote=Bilbert]Why can't you connect the flatcar crates on top to create a flat surface, but keep the gaps for spam? That would prevent the gaps from swallowing rockets fired downward from bombs, but allow horizontal spam rockets to pass through. Instead of mesh, you could lay a thin piece of sheet metal on top to make it visually apparent that the crates work differently from those on Badlands. Or you could change the prop on the flatcar to something more fitting for this shape, like piles of lumber. [img]http://i.imgur.com/YjwBve0.jpg[/img][/quote]
Nobody uses the gaps for spam anyway. What sense does it make to have gaps between boxes and planks on top of them?

[quote=Bilbert] There's a clipbrush here, too. In my opinion, it doesn't matter for rocket jumping. I have never seen anyone jump off this wall. It doesn't help you get anywhere and it would be a left-handed jump anyway. It's nice to have the clipbrush for Scouts though, as they will no longer get caught on that overhang.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/35Opiig.jpg[/img][/quote]
It doen't matter for rocket jumping unless you do a [quote=Bilbert]left-handed jump[/quote] into saw or onto the shack on mid. Therefore it has a use...
123
#123
2 Frags +
CollaideBilbertWhy can't you connect the flatcar crates on top to create a flat surface, but keep the gaps for spam? That would prevent the gaps from swallowing rockets fired downward from bombs, but allow horizontal spam rockets to pass through. Instead of mesh, you could lay a thin piece of sheet metal on top to make it visually apparent that the crates work differently from those on Badlands. Or you could change the prop on the flatcar to something more fitting for this shape, like piles of lumber. http://i.imgur.com/YjwBve0.jpgNobody uses the gaps for spam anyway. What sense does it make to have gaps between boxes and planks on top of them?chojjeBenroadsNot a fan of the changed crates. I know it's not a super popular opinion but I think being able to shoot between the crates is super fun and makes this prop thing a bit more interesting. Would like to see it reverted to the older version as I don't really see the benefit of just making it a block.I'm going to need more input on this. The reason for the change is the all-encompassing "the cracks catch spam" mantra, but I am frankly questioning how far I should take that doctrine. Does every object have to be perfectly smooth? I prefer the old version visually and actually in terms of gameplay (rockets between crates), but I tried this as a solution to remove the cracks without removing the sightline.

Can someone chime in here? The discussion is valid for a lot of places.

I personally have never used the gaps for spamming, so I wouldn't mind if they were removed. But apparently, some players do like them. The problem with the gaps is that sometimes rockets get caught in them when shooting downwards. For example, when a Soldier bombs a Med who's holding on Train, one or more of the Soldier's rockets may end up in the gap instead of on the top. This negates an otherwise perfect rocket's damage. It's also annoying for the Med, as he may not be able to surf away if he jumps but the rocket doesn't land. So, if the tops of the crates were connected into a single plane, rockets fired downward would no longer land in the gaps. This does leave a problem with rockets from the side, as they may still get caught in the gaps and not splash as expected, but this scenario is a bit less critical than during a bomb.

CollaideBilbert There's a clipbrush here, too. In my opinion, it doesn't matter for rocket jumping. I have never seen anyone jump off this wall. It doesn't help you get anywhere and it would be a left-handed jump anyway. It's nice to have the clipbrush for Scouts though, as they will no longer get caught on that overhang.
http://i.imgur.com/35Opiig.jpg
It doen't matter for rocket jumping unless you do a Bilbertleft-handed jump into saw or onto the shack on mid. Therefore it has a use...

Oh, that's true. I figured out the reason I've never seen anyone do it. The overhang on _final1 made it very difficult to execute a jump off that wall.

[quote=Collaide][quote=Bilbert]Why can't you connect the flatcar crates on top to create a flat surface, but keep the gaps for spam? That would prevent the gaps from swallowing rockets fired downward from bombs, but allow horizontal spam rockets to pass through. Instead of mesh, you could lay a thin piece of sheet metal on top to make it visually apparent that the crates work differently from those on Badlands. Or you could change the prop on the flatcar to something more fitting for this shape, like piles of lumber. [img]http://i.imgur.com/YjwBve0.jpg[/img][/quote]
Nobody uses the gaps for spam anyway. What sense does it make to have gaps between boxes and planks on top of them?[/quote]

[quote=chojje]
[quote=Benroads]Not a fan of the changed crates. I know it's not a super popular opinion but I think being able to shoot between the crates is super fun and makes this prop thing a bit more interesting. Would like to see it reverted to the older version as I don't really see the benefit of just making it a block.
[/quote]
I'm going to need more input on this. The reason for the change is the all-encompassing "the cracks catch spam" mantra, but I am frankly questioning how far I should take that doctrine. Does every object have to be perfectly smooth? I prefer the old version visually and actually in terms of gameplay (rockets between crates), but I tried this as a solution to remove the cracks without removing the sightline.

Can someone chime in here? The discussion is valid for a lot of places.
[/quote]
I personally have never used the gaps for spamming, so I wouldn't mind if they were removed. But apparently, some players do like them. The problem with the gaps is that sometimes rockets get caught in them when shooting downwards. For example, when a Soldier bombs a Med who's holding on Train, one or more of the Soldier's rockets may end up in the gap instead of on the top. This negates an otherwise perfect rocket's damage. It's also annoying for the Med, as he may not be able to surf away if he jumps but the rocket doesn't land. So, if the tops of the crates were connected into a single plane, rockets fired downward would no longer land in the gaps. This does leave a problem with rockets from the side, as they may still get caught in the gaps and not splash as expected, but this scenario is a bit less critical than during a bomb.

[quote=Collaide][quote=Bilbert] There's a clipbrush here, too. In my opinion, it doesn't matter for rocket jumping. I have never seen anyone jump off this wall. It doesn't help you get anywhere and it would be a left-handed jump anyway. It's nice to have the clipbrush for Scouts though, as they will no longer get caught on that overhang.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/35Opiig.jpg[/img][/quote]
It doen't matter for rocket jumping unless you do a [quote=Bilbert]left-handed jump[/quote] into saw or onto the shack on mid. Therefore it has a use...[/quote]
Oh, that's true. I figured out the reason I've never seen anyone do it. The overhang on _final1 made it very difficult to execute a jump off that wall.
124
#124
3 Frags +

i'm of the mind that the gaps should be removed, they very very rarely are going to add anything to the map being there and taking them away removes a lot of headache for soldiers. i especially think its worth it now that the saw room canopy is gone and you are going to see a lot more soldier jumping onto the pipe and spamming down onto the train

i'm of the mind that the gaps should be removed, they very very rarely are going to add anything to the map being there and taking them away removes a lot of headache for soldiers. i especially think its worth it now that the saw room canopy is gone and you are going to see a lot more soldier jumping onto the pipe and spamming down onto the train
125
#125
1 Frags +

This fence is misaligned on BLU side.
http://i.imgur.com/MWGOlDx.png

This fence is misaligned on BLU side.
http://i.imgur.com/MWGOlDx.png
126
#126
cp_snakewater
11 Frags +

Hey guys, sorry about the long wait.

Here's u6: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2447457/cp_snakewater_u6.bsp.bz2

Changelog u6:
Fixed some visual inconsistencies
Changed solidity of various props
Reverted ramps on last to opaque
Train crates are now lumber
Adjusted clipping to more closely resemble geometry
Fixed some displacement bugs
Fixed duplicate stairs ;-;
Full lighting compile - please comment if any place seems darker than the stock version

To clarify: this will be played in the ETF2L preseason cup.

Hey guys, sorry about the long wait.

[size=16]Here's u6: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2447457/cp_snakewater_u6.bsp.bz2[/size]

[u]Changelog u6:[/u]
Fixed some visual inconsistencies
Changed solidity of various props
Reverted ramps on last to opaque
Train crates are now lumber
Adjusted clipping to more closely resemble geometry
Fixed some displacement bugs
Fixed duplicate stairs ;-;
Full lighting compile - please comment if any place seems darker than the stock version

To clarify: this will be played in the ETF2L preseason cup.
127
#127
1 Frags +
chojjeHey guys, sorry about the long wait.

Here's u6: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2447457/cp_snakewater_u6.bsp.bz2

Changelog u6:
Fixed some visual inconsistencies
Changed solidity of various props
Reverted ramps on last to opaque
Train crates are now lumber
Adjusted clipping to more closely resemble geometry
Fixed some displacement bugs
Fixed duplicate stairs ;-;
Full lighting compile - please comment if any place seems darker than the stock version

is this version going to get implemented for the preseason cup or are we sticking with u5?

[quote=chojje]Hey guys, sorry about the long wait.

[size=16]Here's u6: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2447457/cp_snakewater_u6.bsp.bz2[/size]

[u]Changelog u6:[/u]
Fixed some visual inconsistencies
Changed solidity of various props
Reverted ramps on last to opaque
Train crates are now lumber
Adjusted clipping to more closely resemble geometry
Fixed some displacement bugs
Fixed duplicate stairs ;-;
Full lighting compile - please comment if any place seems darker than the stock version[/quote]


is this version going to get implemented for the preseason cup or are we sticking with u5?
128
#128
cp_snakewater
4 Frags +

As far as I'm concerned u6 will be the version played in the preseason cup, but I haven't personally been in touch with the cup admins.

As far as I'm concerned u6 will be the version played in the preseason cup, but I haven't personally been in touch with the cup admins.
129
#129
1 Frags +
chojjeHey guys, sorry about the long wait.

Here's u6: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2447457/cp_snakewater_u6.bsp.bz2

Changelog u6:
Fixed some visual inconsistencies
Changed solidity of various props
Reverted ramps on last to opaque
Train crates are now lumber
Adjusted clipping to more closely resemble geometry
Fixed some displacement bugs
Fixed duplicate stairs ;-;
Full lighting compile - please comment if any place seems darker than the stock version

To clarify: this will be played in the ETF2L preseason cup.

Missing clipbrush on the right side of BLU dropdown:

http://i.imgur.com/7qodcAp.jpg

Clipbrush on left side doesn't cover the protrusion.

http://i.imgur.com/Ea3TKjH.jpg

[quote=chojje]Hey guys, sorry about the long wait.

[size=16]Here's u6: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2447457/cp_snakewater_u6.bsp.bz2[/size]

[u]Changelog u6:[/u]
Fixed some visual inconsistencies
Changed solidity of various props
Reverted ramps on last to opaque
Train crates are now lumber
Adjusted clipping to more closely resemble geometry
Fixed some displacement bugs
Fixed duplicate stairs ;-;
Full lighting compile - please comment if any place seems darker than the stock version

To clarify: this will be played in the ETF2L preseason cup.[/quote]

Missing clipbrush on the right side of BLU dropdown:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/7qodcAp.jpg[/img]
Clipbrush on left side doesn't cover the protrusion.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/Ea3TKjH.jpg[/img]
130
#130
4 Frags +

The saw in the sawroom fades if the player is standing on Cheese. (Not sure if this was fixed in the new version)
Also, the new lighting settings make the map look kinda dark with a lot of shadows, did you compile with the commands -staticproppolys -textureshadows -staticproplighting?

EDIT: the saw still fades after a distance

The saw in the sawroom fades if the player is standing on Cheese. (Not sure if this was fixed in the new version)
Also, the new lighting settings make the map look kinda dark with a lot of shadows, did you compile with the commands -staticproppolys -textureshadows -staticproplighting?

EDIT: the saw still fades after a distance
131
#131
6 Frags +

You cannot jump off of the pallet that's in green/choke to get to window. Didn't test on which side or if both but the problem is there.

You cannot jump off of the pallet that's in green/choke to get to window. Didn't test on which side or if both but the problem is there.
132
#132
3 Frags +

I don't know if someone pointed it out, but on second point there's a light going through the fence and through the train logs.

Show Content
I don't know if someone pointed it out, but on second point there's a light going through the fence and through the train logs.
[spoiler][img]http://i.imgur.com/Rh0d1H9.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/TpN6t86.jpg[/img][/spoiler]
133
#133
-1 Frags +

Little bucket fades on grass. Occurs on both sides.

Appearing

Show Content

and disappearing

Show Content
Little bucket fades on grass. Occurs on both sides.

Appearing
[spoiler][img]http://i.imgur.com/boUUgUa.jpg[/img][/spoiler]
and disappearing
[spoiler][img]http://i.imgur.com/a2QF62o.jpg[/img][/spoiler]
134
#134
7 Frags +

I've got to play this map once yesterday. It looks much darker than the current official version, which I found quite unappealing.

I've got to play this map once yesterday. It looks much darker than the current official version, which I found quite unappealing.
135
#135
cp_snakewater
3 Frags +
shorasI've got to play this map once yesterday. It looks much darker than the current official version, which I found quite unappealing.

This is getting downvoted but if you can provide photographic evidence it would be greatly helpful so I can redeem any kind of lighting issues.

Also appreciate images of these fading prop issues, this is one of the last things I want to fix in the final version.

[quote=shoras]I've got to play this map once yesterday. It looks much darker than the current official version, which I found quite unappealing.[/quote]


This is getting downvoted but if you can provide photographic evidence it would be greatly helpful so I can redeem any kind of lighting issues.

Also appreciate images of these fading prop issues, this is one of the last things I want to fix in the final version.
136
#136
4 Frags +

i personally don't enjoy the logs change on the second point as well, but i can see how it's more fitting for the maps theme

it feels so weird just because i'm used to those trains being there, but it feels weird you can get stuck on the logs since they are layered... like logs....

i noticed the map is way darker than the normal snakewater as well, but i liked it, although it does change the overall feel of the map, it feels more like dusk than a mid afternoon type of feeling

we played a pug on it yesterday while i was streaming if you wanted to see what i saw, we make some critiques/observations about the changes on it before the game even starts

Show Content
i personally don't enjoy the logs change on the second point as well, but i can see how it's more fitting for the maps theme

it feels so weird just because i'm used to those trains being there, but it feels weird you can get stuck on the logs since they are layered... like logs....

i noticed the map is way darker than the normal snakewater as well, but i liked it, although it does change the overall feel of the map, it feels more like dusk than a mid afternoon type of feeling

we played a pug on it yesterday while i was streaming if you wanted to see what i saw, we make some critiques/observations about the changes on it before the game even starts
[spoiler]
https://www.twitch.tv/foxpeace/v/63271951?t=47m02s
[/spoiler]
137
#137
3 Frags +
chojjeshorasI've got to play this map once yesterday. It looks much darker than the current official version, which I found quite unappealing.
This is getting downvoted but if you can provide photographic evidence it would be greatly helpful so I can redeem any kind of lighting issues.

Also appreciate images of these fading prop issues, this is one of the last things I want to fix in the final version.

I've made two imgur albums for comparison:
final1: http://imgur.com/a/JgDQw
u6: http://imgur.com/a/irbGz

[quote=chojje][quote=shoras]I've got to play this map once yesterday. It looks much darker than the current official version, which I found quite unappealing.[/quote]


This is getting downvoted but if you can provide photographic evidence it would be greatly helpful so I can redeem any kind of lighting issues.

Also appreciate images of these fading prop issues, this is one of the last things I want to fix in the final version.[/quote]
I've made two imgur albums for comparison:
final1: http://imgur.com/a/JgDQw
u6: http://imgur.com/a/irbGz
138
#138
-2 Frags +

darker looks neat

darker looks neat
139
#139
cp_snakewater
5 Frags +
shoraschojjeshorasI've got to play this map once yesterday. It looks much darker than the current official version, which I found quite unappealing.
This is getting downvoted but if you can provide photographic evidence it would be greatly helpful so I can redeem any kind of lighting issues.

Also appreciate images of these fading prop issues, this is one of the last things I want to fix in the final version.
I've made two imgur albums for comparison:
final1: http://imgur.com/a/JgDQw
u6: http://imgur.com/a/irbGz

Thanks, really appreciate this thorough feedback.

I think I've found what the issue might be and I will get a u7 update out shortly (discussing with etf2l admins whether it's possible to try u7 in the preseason cup).

[quote=shoras][quote=chojje][quote=shoras]I've got to play this map once yesterday. It looks much darker than the current official version, which I found quite unappealing.[/quote]


This is getting downvoted but if you can provide photographic evidence it would be greatly helpful so I can redeem any kind of lighting issues.

Also appreciate images of these fading prop issues, this is one of the last things I want to fix in the final version.[/quote]
I've made two imgur albums for comparison:
final1: http://imgur.com/a/JgDQw
u6: http://imgur.com/a/irbGz[/quote]

Thanks, really appreciate this thorough feedback.

I think I've found what the issue might be and I will get a u7 update out shortly (discussing with etf2l admins whether it's possible to try u7 in the preseason cup).
140
#140
6 Frags +

I couldnt jump in window once pls change that back, the map is so dark pls make brighter, rest was fine

I couldnt jump in window once pls change that back, the map is so dark pls make brighter, rest was fine
141
#141
0 Frags +

lighting honestly looks horrible and though some of the changes make sense I don't see any reason to change the skybox or remove the roof above the opening from saw to second, or especially make it impossible to get into cheese with a single jump. It was already much harder to push into the choke from saw than to go lower, the change just adds more angles from which you can get bombed/spammed while only serving the purpose of allowing roamrrs to roll out slightly quicker and not get clipped on the ceiling. The cheese jump change makes it much harder for medics to survive after their team loses mid and like the train change it will undoubtedly trip people up when they try to move around the map like they used to be able to.

lighting honestly looks horrible and though some of the changes make sense I don't see any reason to change the skybox or remove the roof above the opening from saw to second, or especially make it impossible to get into cheese with a single jump. It was already much harder to push into the choke from saw than to go lower, the change just adds more angles from which you can get bombed/spammed while only serving the purpose of allowing roamrrs to roll out slightly quicker and not get clipped on the ceiling. The cheese jump change makes it much harder for medics to survive after their team loses mid and like the train change it will undoubtedly trip people up when they try to move around the map like they used to be able to.
142
#142
4 Frags +

^Actually it's the jump from the wood pallet up to awning that's not possible anymore but other than that you're right on everything.

http://puu.sh/oAc6M/46691aa9f1.jpg

^Actually it's the jump from the wood pallet up to awning that's not possible anymore but other than that you're right on everything.

[img]http://puu.sh/oAc6M/46691aa9f1.jpg[/img]
143
#143
1 Frags +
DamnEasyI couldnt jump in window once pls change that back, the map is so dark pls make brighter, rest was fine

As I discovered a few pages back, it's not dark by aesthetic choice, it's dark because it takes a stupid amount of time to render all the lightmaps properly. Having it darker like this takes a lot less time.

[quote=DamnEasy]I couldnt jump in window once pls change that back, the map is so dark pls make brighter, rest was fine[/quote]

As I discovered a few pages back, it's not dark by aesthetic choice, it's dark because it takes a stupid amount of time to render all the lightmaps properly. Having it darker like this takes a lot less time.
144
#144
5 Frags +
_KermitDamnEasyI couldnt jump in window once pls change that back, the map is so dark pls make brighter, rest was fine
As I discovered a few pages back, it's not dark by aesthetic choice, it's dark because it takes a stupid amount of time to render all the lightmaps properly. Having it darker like this takes a lot less time.
chojjeChangelog u6:
Full lighting compile - please comment if any place seems darker than the stock version
[quote=_Kermit][quote=DamnEasy]I couldnt jump in window once pls change that back, the map is so dark pls make brighter, rest was fine[/quote]

As I discovered a few pages back, it's not dark by aesthetic choice, it's dark because it takes a stupid amount of time to render all the lightmaps properly. Having it darker like this takes a lot less time.[/quote]
[quote=chojje][u]Changelog u6:[/u]
[b]Full lighting compile - please comment if any place seems darker than the stock version[/b][/quote]
145
#145
2 Frags +

Yeah ok I somehow missed that, my bad.

Yeah ok I somehow missed that, my bad.
146
#146
5 Frags +

Also wanted to say; could you change the window in saw to how it was, you have to jump perfectly into the window now. Before you could jump above the window and then land on the ledge to get in.

Also wanted to say; could you change the window in saw to how it was, you have to jump perfectly into the window now. Before you could jump above the window and then land on the ledge to get in.
147
#147
1 Frags +

Ah ok nice i knew about the light render thing, but i didnt read any of the previous pages

Ah ok nice i knew about the light render thing, but i didnt read any of the previous pages
148
#148
4 Frags +

Hey chojje,

We're happy to test u7 instead of u6 if it gets released on time, as it's mostly lighting issues. And let's be honest, if we replace final1 with your version, it'd be the most up to date one anyway :). Friend requested on steam for contact

Hey chojje,

We're happy to test u7 instead of u6 if it gets released on time, as it's mostly lighting issues. And let's be honest, if we replace final1 with your version, it'd be the most up to date one anyway :). Friend requested on steam for contact
149
#149
cp_snakewater
14 Frags +

Here's u7 just in time for the preseason cup:

Download link: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2447457/cp_snakewater_u7.bsp.bz2

Changelog u6

Major:

* Made the map brighter

Minor:

* Improved clipping on mid
* Removed some obstructive detailing
* Fixed floating stuff
* Fixed some missing clips
* Fixed clips blocking off window
* Fixed some visual bugs

Hope you'll enjoy this version in the cup.

Here's u7 just in time for the preseason cup:

[Size=16]Download link: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2447457/cp_snakewater_u7.bsp.bz2[/size]

[u]Changelog u6[/u]

[u]Major:[/u]

* Made the map brighter

[u]Minor:[/u]

* Improved clipping on mid
* Removed some obstructive detailing
* Fixed floating stuff
* Fixed some missing clips
* Fixed clips blocking off window
* Fixed some visual bugs

Hope you'll enjoy this version in the cup.
150
#150
5 Frags +

Thanks for all your work making a good map even better, chojje! It's great to have people like you committed to providing their best work to make the game more fun for everybody.

Thanks for all your work making a good map even better, chojje! It's great to have people like you committed to providing their best work to make the game more fun for everybody.
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