I would be open to trying an open whitelist, it was definitely different and shifted some parts of the meta to new places, but everyone would have to be prepared for a drastic shift in meta if the whitelist suddenly became fully open and it was taken seriously.

Like engis running fulltime pomson and gunslinger, soldiers bombing with beggars, and scouts with baby face/crit-a-cola/bonk.

Those unlocks would change a lot of how medic is played and pushes are handled while also making medic and demo a lot more vulnerable to things they were already vulnerable to.

I think it could work, but it would take some time.

This pug without a whitelist looked a lot like a regular pug. I feel like it'd be a lot different with 2 teams like zebbosai(?) suggested. Having a real incentive to win would make a big difference too I think.

It's also important how good the players are with the unlocks. The Sneaky Polar Bear bazooka I saw from HL is 10000x more dangerous than degun's bazooka. Justin's charge demo makes the shield look pretty op but only a handful of players are that good with it. If everyone practiced with the sandman there would be potential for some crazy bonks that make the stun op.

bring back solidsnake

how many good HL players can handle top 6s play, I wonder? we'd get a lot more off of someone like stabby using spy unlocks than some dude who normally off-classes to him once every twenty matches

I didn't think it was an experiment, I thought it was just to demonstrate why we have the restrictions that we do. It wasn't really fun to watch from a competitive perspective. Fun for messing around though.

Also weapons like the LL and CM5K are still banned because nobody cares enough to unban them. Neither of them will see any serious use in competitive play. I mean we probably should unban them just to show that that's the real reason they're never used but it's pretty much just symbolic.

Every spy unlock except for the enforcer and spycicle is legal. Spy has very limited use in 6s

No, spy would still be a horrible class to be running fulltime in 6s. But i could definitely see engy/pyro becoming a lot more relevant.

Pretty sure the Cow Mangler would almost be a direct upgrade for 6s.

was just an off-hand example, cause I can't think of anyone else who runs the same off-class in both leagues. for a more viable example, I'd go for maybe sigafoo's engineer

Liberty launcher is not currently banned in esea.
I assume the cow mangler is banned because the lack of minis means there is next to no reason to not run it as roamer. Take granary mid to second. Infinite ammo (and the ability to spam a charged shot but that isnt too relevant) with no downside. It might even get used on pocket too, since soldier kritz is not common.

oh ya i forgot about the infinite ammo thing

STV Demos if you like:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gau86v7oxgxgs2e/2014-12-14-Unrestricted-Showmatch-1-STV-Demos.zip?dl=0

liberty launcher means cheaper jumps as shotgun roamer, I actually liked it in hl for shitting on scouts, but hl gives soldiers a lot less heals than 6s does to roamers so idk

Cm5k is shit because it's rockets are 10% slower and it has a substantially slower initial reload (hidden attributes), also can't be kritzed or kill buildings. Initial reload is the real killer, everything else is just nails on coffin.

I didn't think it was dull at all, I felt like all the new unlocks were a nice change of pace to watch as opposed to the same set 6's gameplay we always watch.

Looks like we could have a proper game next Sunday. Ze Knutsson Rollerbladers are calling out all the other teams in EU to come challenge them :D

The wiki says that cm5k and stock rockets both travel at 1100 ups. You are right about initial reload. cm5k takes 1.24 seconds. Stock takes .92.

I agree. The most Spy can do against a coordinated team is a single pick. There're too few people in the enemy team making it easier to find out a Spy. Staying as Spy for a long time is useless.

Don't know how it was to play etc but that was really fun to stream, big ups to Twiggy and Buttnose for pulling this together.

It would be awesome to see post-match impressions/interviews with the players.

I remember seeing a video on spuf where the rockets were actually slightly slower. That was before the rocket reskin (when the rockets were just a mass of particles), so it very well could have changed. But the wiki was wrong then too.

fuck short circuit

personally, its not unlocks that made me lose interest in playing tf2.

VODs processing now :>

I think the best way to do this is to have one team running cookie cutter, one team with open whitelist, and work out which weapons give the open whitelist a distinct advantage. Otherwise people just fuck around and we don't get anywhere

Gonna practice pomson, minis and wrangler all week

shits gonna get fuuuucked

Was it maybe.. that you weren't having fun anymore?

Because I think for a lot of players, that's what it is

yeah, fooling around with dumb unlocks doesnt make me have any more fun with the game.

Not the shit circuit?

I'm sure your input is noted and appreciated

yeah dude, keep on doing that casting thing, you can only go up from here :)

Looking over the first vod now (currently at the start of 2-3), and all I keep noticing is every time an "overpowered" class is played, ie powerjack/degreaser pyro or gunslinger engie, they are absolutely and utterly destroyed. I've yet to see one pyro and engie play because they're simply outclassed by soldiers and scouts. I've yet to see the short circuit in play, but honestly I feel like a SC engie would just get mulched by the two scouts near instantly, one of which likely using the BFB to outrun any mini that may be put down. He may stop a couple rockets but it would only stall his inevitable death.

Still watching, but this is a lot of fun.

These classes/combos aren't overpowered. They are annoying and usually slow down the game. This detracts from the mechanical skill required in 6s and instead turns into people being forced to play a certain way at no real cost. It isn't the skill of the your opponent forcing you into situations but unlocks.

I need to watch these VODs, but I doubt the unlocks actually made the game any more exciting to watch or play, regardless of their effectiveness.

EDIT:

K, so watching this VOD reminded me of some of the big problems with some unlocks (especially scout unlocks). The pocket pistol, for example, is an absolute no-brainer to use. Pyros, even skilled pyros, generally won't be a big enough threat for scouts to have to worry about flame damage. Instead you make scouts, which in the current meta are super scary, even scarier because of the extra health and fall immunity.

Crit-a-cola and Bonk! might be something to use instead of the pocket pistol but these also shift a lot more power into the hands of scouts for very little downside. The pistol is a very powerful weapon, but I don't think it is on par (in 6s) with other scout secondaries in terms of the things they let a scout do. Mad Milk could also be a massive problem because it can possibly make fights last way longer than they should.

The Atomizer buffs the scout in combat a ton, and soldiers can build just fine so you can easily drop the basher to use it. The downside of the Atomizer is a joke. The best scout melee is the scattergun anyway, and it allows scouts to dodge a ton of damage at the cost of 10 whole HP. Scouts will also be able to do most basher jumps at nearly no cost.

If we move onto demo we have the caber. A free kill for when you were going to die anyway. becomes a no brainer to run instead of your bottle which will still get you killed, but doesn't guarentee the opponent will die, too.

if you're a medic there is no reason you shouldn't run the Solemn Vow or Vita-saw, I'd imagine. This buffs the medic again at little to no cost.

Soldier overall is probably fine. The Disciplinary Action and Beggar's Bazooka have some potential problems but they aren't as big as the scout unlocks and Caber imo. It will just make heavies more common, causing more stalemates, and medics will have very little recourse to live if they get unlucky.

The off-classes unlocks might be varied but they make it so any situation can be hell to try to break through. jarate heavily punishes a team for example for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Gunslinger aims better than any human and you can keep placing them down to destroy the flank. Sandvich makes the heavy-medic combo even more. Having a 450 HP class with a slow runnign speed and no ability to RJ is rarely fun for the person playing it and it definitely isn't fun for the other team to kill. The weakness to this was the fact that the heavy needed a medic but this gives the heavy a way to give his medic a second chance. Giving the pyro to be anywhere he wants gives someone the ability to completely arrest someone else's movement, again at no real cost. There is no skill in airblasting an opponent into a wall, and it is unlikely that pure skill will get whomever out of that wall. Only time will get them out of that situation.

From what I saw this showmatch involved very little strategy. It was just each team trying to brute force their way through by constantly switching unlocks.

We won't really know the full impact until some teams are playing just to win and aren't spamming unlocks for the novelty value. Although the theory crafting is fun it's how they're actually used that counts. We need to see situations that will arise in genuine competitive games, like Wrangled level 3's on Gully last.