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Experience needed to get into pro TF2 matches
1
#1
15 Frags +

Don't get this thread twisted - i'm not hoping to get into pro TF2.

I've clocked in 216 hours of probably 93% gameplay practice on steam, my favorite class is hard to chose but probably between soldier, heavy and medic. In a random quicksearch pub game I would rate myself among the best 5 of 24 players usually. Though I have learnt a lot in my time playing TF2 so far, I haven't really gotten too serious about learning maps - I know where the health is but I don't have strategy's mapped out for every one or anything.

I'm having a bit of a dilema with TF2, compared to more skilled players 220h of gameplay is pretty measley and my aim probably leaves much to be desired in the game. But public matches just aren't that fun for me because I feel like the teams are usually uneven and there is little teamwork. I'm in that middle ground where I'm not good enough to play in pro matches but not bad enough to improve in pubs much. So I'd like to ask to those better versed in competetive TF2:

How good do you really need to be to get into organized tf2 matches?
Basically how many hours roughly and in the top what out of 10000 TF2 players would a competetive player be.

How can I improve my aim (I've tried walkway but it lacks the spontinuity of real games.)
Is it possible to get into organized TF2 without being signed up for lots of matches? (because i'm often not around, with school and travel.)

Thanks.

Don't get this thread twisted - i'm not hoping to get into pro TF2.

I've clocked in 216 hours of probably 93% gameplay practice on steam, my favorite class is hard to chose but probably between soldier, heavy and medic. In a random quicksearch pub game I would rate myself among the best 5 of 24 players usually. Though I have learnt a lot in my time playing TF2 so far, I haven't really gotten too serious about learning maps - I know where the health is but I don't have strategy's mapped out for every one or anything.

I'm having a bit of a dilema with TF2, compared to more skilled players 220h of gameplay is pretty measley and my aim probably leaves much to be desired in the game. But public matches just aren't that fun for me because I feel like the teams are usually uneven and there is little teamwork. I'm in that middle ground where I'm not good enough to play in pro matches but not bad enough to improve in pubs much. So I'd like to ask to those better versed in competetive TF2:

How good do you really need to be to get into organized tf2 matches?
Basically how many hours roughly and in the top what out of 10000 TF2 players would a competetive player be.

How can I improve my aim (I've tried walkway but it lacks the spontinuity of real games.)
Is it possible to get into organized TF2 without being signed up for lots of matches? (because i'm often not around, with school and travel.)

Thanks.
2
#2
9 Frags +

Well, gameplay hours really doesnt mean much. For example, I have ~2300 hours, but i used to leave tf2 running all the time, and actually have only played ~700 hours. Also, time spent actiively improving will help you play competitively, while time spent pubbing wont help as much.

Well, gameplay hours really doesnt mean much. For example, I have ~2300 hours, but i used to leave tf2 running all the time, and actually have only played ~700 hours. Also, time spent actiively improving will help you play competitively, while time spent pubbing wont help as much.
3
#3
-8 Frags +

MGE till your eyes bleed.

MGE till your eyes bleed.
4
#4
17 Frags +

Have you tried newbie mixes? That'd be a good place to start imo

Have you tried newbie mixes? That'd be a good place to start imo
5
#5
7 Frags +

There is no good ranking compared to the rest of TF2 players; if you feel like you can consistently outplay the majority of players you find in quick play matches, then chances are it's the right time for you to start trying to step up your game. The first thing you'll notice are the servers on the right: MGE servers are for 1v1 practice, and DM servers are just for running around killing things.

If you want to try your hand at a more organized team game, then you should head on over to TF2 Lobby and give it a go. There are two flavors of competitive TF2: 6v6 and Highlander (9v9). Most new players gravitate towards the latter, as it's closer to a "pub" environment.

Beyond that, just surf around the forums and ask questions about anything you want. It doesn't matter how good or bad you are, all that matters is that you want to have fun and get better.

There is no good ranking compared to the rest of TF2 players; if you feel like you can consistently outplay the majority of players you find in quick play matches, then chances are it's the right time for you to start trying to step up your game. The first thing you'll notice are the servers on the right: MGE servers are for 1v1 practice, and DM servers are just for running around killing things.

If you want to try your hand at a more organized team game, then you should head on over to [url=http://www.tf2lobby.com/]TF2 Lobby[/url] and give it a go. There are two flavors of competitive TF2: [url=http://comp.tf/wiki/6v6]6v6[/url] and [url=http://comp.tf/wiki/Highlander]Highlander (9v9)[/url]. Most new players gravitate towards the latter, as it's closer to a "pub" environment.

Beyond that, just surf around the forums and ask questions about anything you want. It doesn't matter how good or bad you are, all that matters is that you want to have fun and get better.
6
#6
6 Frags +

The worst thing you can do is hesitate. Jon a team when you have the time and start building experience. You will not become better if you just pub. My biggest regret about playing competitively is not joining a team earlier than I did. Do scrims/pugs/DM/mge as soon as you can. If you're not doing well, ask for help from teammates. Being on a team is as much a learning experience for them as it is for you.

If you don't have the time to commit, join a more casual team or backup for one. Watching them play and communicate is still a learning experience itself.

The worst thing you can do is hesitate. Jon a team when you have the time and start building experience. You will not become better if you just pub. My biggest regret about playing competitively is not joining a team earlier than I did. Do scrims/pugs/DM/mge as soon as you can. If you're not doing well, ask for help from teammates. Being on a team is as much a learning experience for them as it is for you.

If you don't have the time to commit, join a more casual team or backup for one. Watching them play and communicate is still a learning experience itself.
7
#7
2 Frags +

It depends on a few things..

1) Prior FPS experience
2) Computer hardware
3) Natural talent
4) Free time necessary to put in ample amounts of practice
5) Opportunities to play and learn from already experienced players

Some people come in and move up real quick because of certain things I listed. Some people have been playing since day 1 and can't get out of open. Your best bet is to join an open team and watch a lot of demos while practicing your muscle memory skills daily. Learn the ins and outs of the actual game play not just the dm portion. Then put it to use in game situations where you're playing and molding yourself into the type of player you want to become. Also learn how to communicate properly it's extremely important. Soldiers and medics usually go hand in hand. Usually a good soldier can be a good medic. And a good medic can be a good soldier. I'd go that route. Good medics are a lot harder to find because the class is so unrewarding, however it's the most important class in the game by far. So in the end the total hours really means nothing it's what you do with them that count. And also the personal position you are currently in regarding the other factors. Hope this helps.

It depends on a few things..

1) Prior FPS experience
2) Computer hardware
3) Natural talent
4) Free time necessary to put in ample amounts of practice
5) Opportunities to play and learn from already experienced players

Some people come in and move up real quick because of certain things I listed. Some people have been playing since day 1 and can't get out of open. Your best bet is to join an open team and watch a lot of demos while practicing your muscle memory skills daily. Learn the ins and outs of the actual game play not just the dm portion. Then put it to use in game situations where you're playing and molding yourself into the type of player you want to become. Also learn how to communicate properly it's extremely important. Soldiers and medics usually go hand in hand. Usually a good soldier can be a good medic. And a good medic can be a good soldier. I'd go that route. Good medics are a lot harder to find because the class is so unrewarding, however it's the most important class in the game by far. So in the end the total hours really means nothing it's what you do with them that count. And also the personal position you are currently in regarding the other factors. Hope this helps.
8
#8
3 Frags +

http://teamfortress.tv/schedule/event/348-newbie-mixes

Edit: If you're european then try these out-http://steamcommunity.com/groups/nlpg

[s]http://teamfortress.tv/schedule/event/348-newbie-mixes[/s]

Edit: If you're european then try these out-http://steamcommunity.com/groups/nlpg
9
#9
2 Frags +

Pure aim wise I would say the best way to improve your aim + movement (which are big components of the competitive game) is just to MGE and DM a lot. Keep in mind you will be shit and get shitted on for several weeks, then you will start seeing big improvements, if you for example play pub now, mge/dm for 1-2 months straight and then get back to pub you will see how easy it feels to dominate in a pub.

You could get into competitive and into a team now tbh, there is no "minimum" skill level to enter div 6 (the lowest 6v6 division on etf2l) and even if you lose all matches, its still great practice and you will learn how the game flows competitively

As an example, I started playing competitively roughly with 400-500h of pubs, I started on lobbies, later on got a div 6 team, as demo, then I started practising a lot of solly on mge, I went from about 70-80h on solly to about 200-250 of pure dm/mge practise, and I noticed huge improvements, mainly in my jumping but also in my aim a lot.

There is no magic formula other than the famous "practise, practise, practise"

Pure aim wise I would say the best way to improve your aim + movement (which are big components of the competitive game) is just to MGE and DM a lot. Keep in mind you will be shit and get shitted on for several weeks, then you will start seeing big improvements, if you for example play pub now, mge/dm for 1-2 months straight and then get back to pub you will see how easy it feels to dominate in a pub.

You could get into competitive and into a team now tbh, there is no "minimum" skill level to enter div 6 (the lowest 6v6 division on etf2l) and even if you lose all matches, its still great practice and you will learn how the game flows competitively

As an example, I started playing competitively roughly with 400-500h of pubs, I started on lobbies, later on got a div 6 team, as demo, then I started practising a lot of solly on mge, I went from about 70-80h on solly to about 200-250 of pure dm/mge practise, and I noticed huge improvements, mainly in my jumping but also in my aim a lot.

There is no magic formula other than the famous "[i]practise, practise, practise[/i]"
10
#10
6 Frags +

I noticed that you're in the saigns and nighteam groups. If you play on those servers: Stop.

I noticed that you're in the saigns and nighteam groups. If you play on those servers: Stop.
11
#11
2 Frags +
bearodactylHave you tried newbie mixes? That'd be a good place to start imo

I'll definitley give it a look thanks for the recommendation.

synchroMGE servers are for 1v1 practice, and DM servers are just for running around killing things.

If you want to try your hand at a more organized team game, then you should head on over to TF2 Lobby and give it a go. There are two flavors of competitive TF2: 6v6 and Highlander (9v9). Most new players gravitate towards the latter, as it's closer to a "pub" environment.

Thanks, I'll look into highlander matches, I actually know about comp. team formation and such so I'm probably in a good position to research.

blinKIt depends on a few things..

1) Prior FPS experience
2) Computer hardware
3) Natural talent
4) Free time necessary to put in ample amounts of practice
5) Opportunities to play and learn from already experienced players

I certainly have 2 and 4, probably 5, I'd say i'm middle of the road for 3 and as for 1 I've played other FPS but really I'm pretty new on the scene. Not huge on anything but TF2. As for Solly/Medics I'm inclined to go with that, rocket jumping comes very naturally to me and I'm good at strafing.

KanecoPure aim wise I would say the best way to improve your aim + movement (which are big components of the competitive game) is just to MGE and DM a lot. Keep in mind you will be shit and get shitted on for several weeks, then you will start seeing big improvements, if you for example play pub now, mge/dm for 1-2 months straight and then get back to pub you will see how easy it feels to dominate in a pub.

As an example, I started playing competitively roughly with 400-500h of pubs, I started on lobbies, later on got a div 6 team, as demo, then I started practising a lot of solly on mge, I went from about 70-80h on solly to about 200-250 of pure dm/mge practise, and I noticed huge improvements, mainly in my jumping but also in my aim a lot.

I can see how that would help improve aim, I'm not too hot on 1v1 matches, I feel like there is an element of surprise in them that I'm not good at unless I'm with a team and I can flank round. DM sounds like good target practice though.

Thanks for the quick response everyone I'm please to see the forum is so active in helping peple learn.

[quote=bearodactyl]Have you tried newbie mixes? That'd be a good place to start imo[/quote]
I'll definitley give it a look thanks for the recommendation.

[quote=synchro]MGE servers are for 1v1 practice, and DM servers are just for running around killing things.

If you want to try your hand at a more organized team game, then you should head on over to [url=http://www.tf2lobby.com/]TF2 Lobby[/url] and give it a go. There are two flavors of competitive TF2: [url=http://comp.tf/wiki/6v6]6v6[/url] and [url=http://comp.tf/wiki/Highlander]Highlander (9v9)[/url]. Most new players gravitate towards the latter, as it's closer to a "pub" environment.
[/quote]
Thanks, I'll look into highlander matches, I actually know about comp. team formation and such so I'm probably in a good position to research.
[quote=blinK]It depends on a few things..

1) Prior FPS experience
2) Computer hardware
3) Natural talent
4) Free time necessary to put in ample amounts of practice
5) Opportunities to play and learn from already experienced players
[/quote]
I certainly have 2 and 4, probably 5, I'd say i'm middle of the road for 3 and as for 1 I've played other FPS but really I'm pretty new on the scene. Not huge on anything but TF2. As for Solly/Medics I'm inclined to go with that, rocket jumping comes very naturally to me and I'm good at strafing.

[quote=Kaneco]Pure aim wise I would say the best way to improve your aim + movement (which are big components of the competitive game) is just to MGE and DM a lot. Keep in mind you will be shit and get shitted on for several weeks, then you will start seeing big improvements, if you for example play pub now, mge/dm for 1-2 months straight and then get back to pub you will see how easy it feels to dominate in a pub.

As an example, I started playing competitively roughly with 400-500h of pubs, I started on lobbies, later on got a div 6 team, as demo, then I started practising a lot of solly on mge, I went from about 70-80h on solly to about 200-250 of pure dm/mge practise, and I noticed huge improvements, mainly in my jumping but also in my aim a lot.[/quote]
I can see how that would help improve aim, I'm not too hot on 1v1 matches, I feel like there is an element of surprise in them that I'm not good at unless I'm with a team and I can flank round. DM sounds like good target practice though.

Thanks for the quick response everyone I'm please to see the forum is so active in helping peple learn.
12
#12
0 Frags +
SolidSpeerlaiyeI noticed that you're in the saigns and nighteam groups. If you play on those servers: Stop.

I didn't even realise that and I don't play on those servers, but I do play stuff like VSH for fun. It doesn't detereorate skill or anything does it?

[quote=SolidSpeerlaiye]I noticed that you're in the saigns and nighteam groups. If you play on those servers: Stop.[/quote]
I didn't even realise that and I don't play on those servers, but I do play stuff like VSH for fun. It doesn't detereorate skill or anything does it?
13
#13
1 Frags +
tehrealfakeSolidSpeerlaiyeI noticed that you're in the saigns and nighteam groups. If you play on those servers: Stop.I didn't even realise that and I don't play on those servers, but I do play stuff like VSH for fun. It doesn't detereorate skill or anything does it?

I don't see anything wrong with it, fun is good every once in a while, just don't expect to improve as much as DM or MGE from playing it.

[quote=tehrealfake][quote=SolidSpeerlaiye]I noticed that you're in the saigns and nighteam groups. If you play on those servers: Stop.[/quote]
I didn't even realise that and I don't play on those servers, but I do play stuff like VSH for fun. It doesn't detereorate skill or anything does it?[/quote]
I don't see anything wrong with it, fun is good every once in a while, just don't expect to improve as much as DM or MGE from playing it.
14
#14
5 Frags +

Join a ugc iron team or something. you won't need good dm but you'll still be able to get a basic feeling for the competitive game mode. MGE can be helpful but I'd try doing dm servers instead.

Join a ugc iron team or something. you won't need good dm but you'll still be able to get a basic feeling for the competitive game mode. MGE can be helpful but I'd try doing dm servers instead.
15
#15
-1 Frags +

TF2 lobby and UGC Iron are the places where you don't necessarily have to be good to play and learn from the games. Try not to take it personally if people don't treat you well, they're just frustrated about their own play and trying to blame someone.

TF2 lobby and UGC Iron are the places where you don't necessarily have to be good to play and learn from the games. Try not to take it personally if people don't treat you well, they're just frustrated about their own play and trying to blame someone.
16
#16
11 Frags +
blinKIt depends on a few things..

1) Prior FPS experience
2) Computer hardware
3) Natural talent
4) Free time necessary to put in ample amounts of practice
5) Opportunities to play and learn from already experienced players

PING

[quote=blinK]It depends on a few things..

1) Prior FPS experience
2) Computer hardware
3) Natural talent
4) Free time necessary to put in ample amounts of practice
5) Opportunities to play and learn from already experienced players

[/quote]
PING
17
#17
4 Frags +

tf2.gg or tf2center.com. tf2pickup.net is a decent place to start too.

tf2.gg or tf2center.com. tf2pickup.net is a decent place to start too.
18
#18
1 Frags +

The best thing you can do for yourself is just start playing right away, preferably with a team. Dive in and see where it takes you.

The best thing you can do for yourself is just start playing right away, preferably with a team. Dive in and see where it takes you.
19
#19
2 Frags +

mge

lobbies/mixes

newbiemixes(maybe)

watch good people

rinse and repeat

mge

lobbies/mixes

newbiemixes(maybe)

watch good people

rinse and repeat
20
#20
1 Frags +

Diving into any form of competitive with a team when you're brand new to the scene is a daunting prospect. It can be tough to find a team willing to pick up someone who's completely new, and even then you aren't guaranteed to learn a whole lot by playing with them. If your team (is full of people with bad chemistry/gets 5-0'd all the time/other common team problem), it's easy to get discouraged and quit or pick up equally terrible habits that will hurt you in the long run.

You don't actually need a team to play games in the competitive format, but playing with a solid, tight-knit team will teach you how to improve faster and better than any other method of practice.

I'd advise starting out with pugs before trying to find a team, just to get comfortable with the format and learn the maps. The websites and groups listed in the thread are a good place to start, but tracking down a good in-house pug group might be more beneficial. If you know someone who pugs with a group of regulars, ask them to include you the next time they play. You'll get to know people in a smaller group a lot faster, which greatly helps your chances of getting on a team since people will always look at their circle of friends first when considering possible teammates.

Most important thing to keep in mind while playing is not to get discouraged. Focus on getting better and your efforts will never be wasted.

Diving into any form of competitive with a team when you're brand new to the scene is a daunting prospect. It can be tough to find a team willing to pick up someone who's completely new, and even then you aren't guaranteed to learn a whole lot by playing with them. If your team (is full of people with bad chemistry/gets 5-0'd all the time/other common team problem), it's easy to get discouraged and quit or pick up equally terrible habits that will hurt you in the long run.

You don't actually need a team to play games in the competitive format, but playing with a solid, tight-knit team will teach you how to improve faster and better than any other method of practice.

I'd advise starting out with pugs before trying to find a team, just to get comfortable with the format and learn the maps. The websites and groups listed in the thread are a good place to start, but tracking down a good in-house pug group might be more beneficial. If you know someone who pugs with a group of regulars, ask them to include you the next time they play. You'll get to know people in a smaller group a lot faster, which greatly helps your chances of getting on a team since people will always look at their circle of friends first when considering possible teammates.

Most important thing to keep in mind while playing is not to get discouraged. Focus on getting better and your efforts will never be wasted.
21
#21
0 Frags +

I'm such a whore. We are super welcoming of new players, and since it's a pick-up atmosphere, there's no schedule concerns. We only do 6v6, but we'd still love to have you. It sounds like you have the right attitude to improve quickly.

Still would suggest you follow the advice above about joining a UGC Iron team, in either HL or 6s, since being on a team can be a great learning experience.

[url=http://steamcommunity.com/groups/6sPUGs]I'm such a whore[/url]. We are super welcoming of new players, and since it's a pick-up atmosphere, there's no schedule concerns. We only do 6v6, but we'd still love to have you. It sounds like you have the right attitude to improve quickly.

Still would suggest you follow the advice above about joining a UGC Iron team, in either HL or 6s, since being on a team can be a great learning experience.
22
#22
0 Frags +

hey tehrealfake, I'd recommend you to just join a low division UGC team, or an ETF2L team if you're from europe. That's the way I got into competitive and I can tell you that playing with the same organized group of people periodicaly gives you 2 things: Fun (because you start making friends while playing with them) and an urge to become good, because you don't want to let them down (which kinda pressures you to get better and better every day).

Try some lobbies and mixes for a while to get a basic understanding of how 6s and highlander work and then just try to sneak your way into some league. I assure you you will enjoy it :)

hey tehrealfake, I'd recommend you to just join a low division UGC team, or an ETF2L team if you're from europe. That's the way I got into competitive and I can tell you that playing with the same organized group of people periodicaly gives you 2 things: Fun (because you start making friends while playing with them) and an urge to become good, because you don't want to let them down (which kinda pressures you to get better and better every day).

Try some lobbies and mixes for a while to get a basic understanding of how 6s and highlander work and then just try to sneak your way into some league. I assure you you will enjoy it :)
23
#23
6 Frags +
tehrealfakeHow can I improve my aim (I've tried walkway but it lacks the spontinuity of real games.)

Quake Live

[quote=tehrealfake]How can I improve my aim (I've tried walkway but it lacks the spontinuity of real games.)[/quote]

[url=http://www.quakelive.com/]Quake Live[/url]
24
#24
4 Frags +

@OP I would just hop into the deep end of the pool. Challenge yourself to improve, and you'll make it.
It will be tough at first but over time you'll see yourself drastically improving.

@OP I would just hop into the deep end of the pool. Challenge yourself to improve, and you'll make it.
It will be tough at first but over time you'll see yourself drastically improving.
25
#25
5 Frags +

Ignore the comments here about Highlander. If you like soldier, just go 6's straight away! Lower division soldier is fun as hell and very rewarding. Highlander soldier is soul crushing.

Ignore the comments here about Highlander. If you like soldier, just go 6's straight away! Lower division soldier is fun as hell and very rewarding. Highlander soldier is soul crushing.
26
#26
0 Frags +
skeejIgnore the comments here about Highlander. If you like soldier, just go 6's straight away! Lower division soldier is fun as hell and very rewarding. Highlander soldier is soul crushing.

lower division highlander soldier isn't rewarding because nobody will ever push off your non-medic picks

but lower division engies don't know how to spam minis and lower division heavies and pyros are oblivious as bricks

so it's not that bad?

6s is definitely faster and will help you improve faster, but highlander is much, much easier

-a (shitty) ugc steel highlander and 6s soldier

...or you could just play soldier/med in 6s and heavy in highlander

[quote=skeej]Ignore the comments here about Highlander. If you like soldier, just go 6's straight away! Lower division soldier is fun as hell and very rewarding. Highlander soldier is soul crushing.[/quote]

lower division highlander soldier isn't rewarding because nobody will ever push off your non-medic picks

but lower division engies don't know how to spam minis and lower division heavies and pyros are oblivious as bricks

so it's not that bad?

6s is definitely faster and will help you improve faster, but highlander is much, much easier

-a (shitty) ugc steel highlander and 6s soldier

...or you could just play soldier/med in 6s and heavy in highlander
27
#27
1 Frags +

Maybe I overstated it, yeah. The way you put it is about right.

6s soldier will put more pressure on you but therefore will make you improve faster and reward you more when things go the right way. Start out with Highlander if you want to commit to a class that is not one of the main 4 6s classes.

Maybe I overstated it, yeah. The way you put it is about right.

6s soldier will put more pressure on you but therefore will make you improve faster and reward you more when things go the right way. Start out with Highlander if you want to commit to a class that is not one of the main 4 6s classes.
28
#28
0 Frags +
tehrealfakeSolidSpeerlaiyeI noticed that you're in the saigns and nighteam groups. If you play on those servers: Stop.I didn't even realise that and I don't play on those servers, but I do play stuff like VSH for fun. It doesn't detereorate skill or anything does it?

There is nothing wrong with VSH. It's just that you can basically buy cheats on nighteam and saigns (+50hp on kill, scout speed on all classes, unlimited ammo and metal.......) so I'd suggest not playing on those but if it's only VSH then that's fine

[quote=tehrealfake][quote=SolidSpeerlaiye]I noticed that you're in the saigns and nighteam groups. If you play on those servers: Stop.[/quote]
I didn't even realise that and I don't play on those servers, but I do play stuff like VSH for fun. It doesn't detereorate skill or anything does it?[/quote]
There is nothing wrong with VSH. It's just that you can basically buy cheats on nighteam and saigns (+50hp on kill, scout speed on all classes, unlimited ammo and metal.......) so I'd suggest not playing on those but if it's only VSH then that's fine
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