KillingIM isn't stable enough for Main.
Sorry
What then? TELL US KILLING, what could it be?!
ESEA Season 14 Announced
posted in
TF2 General Discussion
[quote=Killing]IM isn't stable enough for Main.
Sorry[/quote]
What then? TELL US KILLING, what could it be?!
Sorry[/quote]
What then? TELL US KILLING, what could it be?!
KillingIM isn't stable enough for Main.
Sorry
Your name fits what you're doing to our dreams! ;_;
[quote=Killing]IM isn't stable enough for Main.
Sorry[/quote]
Your name fits what you're doing to our dreams! ;_;
Sorry[/quote]
Your name fits what you're doing to our dreams! ;_;
that was awful phantom you should be ashamed of that one
that was awful phantom you should be ashamed of that one
Couldn't the stability of im be affected by the current layout?
Couldn't the stability of im be affected by the current layout?
bmanCouldn't the stability of im be affected by the current layout?
Your team: http://play.esea.net/teams/46944
[quote=bman]Couldn't the stability of im be affected by the current layout?[/quote]
Your team: http://play.esea.net/teams/46944
Your team: http://play.esea.net/teams/46944
CSGO IM has 38 teams with ~30 still being alive at the end of the season
CSGO is having a main next season
this should give you guys a ballpark figure of what we should be shooting for in order to have a main
CSGO IM has 38 teams with ~30 still being alive at the end of the season
CSGO is having a main next season
this should give you guys a ballpark figure of what we should be shooting for in order to have a main
CSGO is having a main next season
this should give you guys a ballpark figure of what we should be shooting for in order to have a main
I'm not try to bait out an argument here, I'm just a little confused about what point you are making here. The stability of IM is shaky right now, the lower tier teams break up and won't play because they are in over their head and the upper teams break up for a number of different reasons. In the case of most teams the reasons result from personality conflicts which are compounded by losing. If you narrow the skill level to more equal levels in a division, positive team building results would occur. A team that enters open together, makes it to im, and so on and so forth, has a better chance of NOT breaking up than a team of im players that just play with each other because there are no better options. Personality conflicts happen in all games, the biggest phenomena in tf2 is the mixing up of players every season. I'm just simply suggesting that a four division league might help lessen the extent of that problem.
In the end though, you are the captain of the ship, you make the tough decisions. It is futile for me to argue, so I will stop and understand the choice you make. I hope your announcement doesn't disappoint
and fyi, I do understand that the lack of numbers in tf2 really does limit the way you can design a league. It was more of a hypothetical solution than a practical one.
I'm not try to bait out an argument here, I'm just a little confused about what point you are making here. The stability of IM is shaky right now, the lower tier teams break up and won't play because they are in over their head and the upper teams break up for a number of different reasons. In the case of most teams the reasons result from personality conflicts which are compounded by losing. If you narrow the skill level to more equal levels in a division, positive team building results would occur. A team that enters open together, makes it to im, and so on and so forth, has a better chance of NOT breaking up than a team of im players that just play with each other because there are no better options. Personality conflicts happen in all games, the biggest phenomena in tf2 is the mixing up of players every season. I'm just simply suggesting that a four division league might help lessen the extent of that problem.
In the end though, you are the captain of the ship, you make the tough decisions. It is futile for me to argue, so I will stop and understand the choice you make. I hope your announcement doesn't disappoint
and fyi, I do understand that the lack of numbers in tf2 really does limit the way you can design a league. It was more of a hypothetical solution than a practical one.
In the end though, you are the captain of the ship, you make the tough decisions. It is futile for me to argue, so I will stop and understand the choice you make. I hope your announcement doesn't disappoint
and fyi, I do understand that the lack of numbers in tf2 really does limit the way you can design a league. It was more of a hypothetical solution than a practical one.
bmanI'm not try to bait out an argument here, I'm just a little confused about what point you are making here. The stability of IM is shaky right now, the lower tier teams break up and won't play because they are in over their head and the upper teams break up for a number of different reasons. In the case of most teams the reasons result from personality conflicts which are compounded by losing. If you narrow the skill level to more equal levels in a division, positive team building results would occur. A team that enters open together, makes it to im, and so on and so forth, has a better chance of NOT breaking up than a team of im players that just play with each other because there are no better options. Personality conflicts happen in all games, the biggest phenomena in tf2 is the mixing up of players every season. I'm just simply suggesting that a four division league might help lessen the extent of that problem.
In the end though, you are the captain of the ship, you make the tough decisions. It is futile for me to argue, so I will stop and understand the choice you make. I hope your announcement doesn't disappoint
and fyi, I do understand that the lack of numbers in tf2 really does limit the way you can design a league. It was more of a hypothetical solution than a practical one.
My point is that your assertion is wrong. Even teams that make it into playoffs die. It really has nothing to do with the system but more with this community's general mindset towards long term goals and team stability.
[quote=bman]I'm not try to bait out an argument here, I'm just a little confused about what point you are making here. The stability of IM is shaky right now, the lower tier teams break up and won't play because they are in over their head and the upper teams break up for a number of different reasons. In the case of most teams the reasons result from personality conflicts which are compounded by losing. If you narrow the skill level to more equal levels in a division, positive team building results would occur. A team that enters open together, makes it to im, and so on and so forth, has a better chance of NOT breaking up than a team of im players that just play with each other because there are no better options. Personality conflicts happen in all games, the biggest phenomena in tf2 is the mixing up of players every season. I'm just simply suggesting that a four division league might help lessen the extent of that problem.
In the end though, you are the captain of the ship, you make the tough decisions. It is futile for me to argue, so I will stop and understand the choice you make. I hope your announcement doesn't disappoint
and fyi, I do understand that the lack of numbers in tf2 really does limit the way you can design a league. It was more of a hypothetical solution than a practical one.[/quote]
My point is that your assertion is wrong. Even teams that make it into playoffs die. It really has nothing to do with the system but more with this community's general mindset towards long term goals and team stability.
In the end though, you are the captain of the ship, you make the tough decisions. It is futile for me to argue, so I will stop and understand the choice you make. I hope your announcement doesn't disappoint
and fyi, I do understand that the lack of numbers in tf2 really does limit the way you can design a league. It was more of a hypothetical solution than a practical one.[/quote]
My point is that your assertion is wrong. Even teams that make it into playoffs die. It really has nothing to do with the system but more with this community's general mindset towards long term goals and team stability.
djcare we even going to have 6-7 living invite teams? everything i hear about next season's lineups is that FT, CC, XEN are done so we'd be sitting on 4 survivors in bp, mix, ag, vector. throw in Mad Men, that xalox/anonemouse team, the hypothetical br0 reform, we're at 7, and then pull up dun's team if they come back with their predicted new roster, i guess you're moving up r5, the ducks, and ostrich poachers to hit 11, and then we're looking at big mangachu's squad in invite for the 12th spot.
PWR RANGERS 4 INVITE S14
[quote=djc]are we even going to have 6-7 living invite teams? everything i hear about next season's lineups is that FT, CC, XEN are done so we'd be sitting on 4 survivors in bp, mix, ag, vector. throw in Mad Men, that xalox/anonemouse team, the hypothetical br0 reform, we're at 7, and then pull up dun's team if they come back with their predicted new roster, i guess you're moving up r5, the ducks, and ostrich poachers to hit 11, and then we're looking at big mangachu's squad in invite for the 12th spot.
[/quote]
PWR RANGERS 4 INVITE S14
[/quote]
PWR RANGERS 4 INVITE S14
Also, if you're on a team that wants to play in invite and are not currently in invite, message me on steam. Don't expect me to pm every person that I hear a rumor about.
Also, if you're on a team that wants to play in invite and are not currently in invite, message me on steam. Don't expect me to pm every person that I hear a rumor about.
Think we need more people thinking about getting their team to invite instead of trying to individually get there. That would help a little bit.
Think we need more people thinking about getting their team to invite instead of trying to individually get there. That would help a little bit.
TwinweaponsThink we need more people thinking about getting their team to invite instead of trying to individually get there. That would help a little bit.
We need a few more Vector Gaming's in this world.
[quote=Twinweapons]Think we need more people thinking about getting their team to invite instead of trying to individually get there. That would help a little bit.[/quote]
We need a few more Vector Gaming's in this world.
We need a few more Vector Gaming's in this world.
Gen_CavemanTwinweaponsThink we need more people thinking about getting their team to invite instead of trying to individually get there. That would help a little bit.
We need a few more Vector Gaming's in this world.
eGO Invite S15
Been together 4 seasons
[quote=Gen_Caveman][quote=Twinweapons]Think we need more people thinking about getting their team to invite instead of trying to individually get there. That would help a little bit.[/quote]
We need a few more Vector Gaming's in this world.[/quote]
eGO Invite S15
Been together 4 seasons
We need a few more Vector Gaming's in this world.[/quote]
eGO Invite S15
Been together 4 seasons
well considering how killing has spoken on a main division i will give my thoughts on a 12 team invite division with a 6 team lan.
Facts:
-They are adding $3000+ to the prize pool.
-Current last place lan team earns $1200.
Speculations:
-Assume 5th and 6th place teams will earn less than 4th place, and assume that 4th place winnings will not be diminished.
-Given this, the $3000+ could easily cover the current prize pool plus the suspected winnings of ~$1000 for 5th and 6th place and still give a small bump to the top four teams winnings.
Can we support and sustain a 12 team invite division? I'm not sure myself. Will the extra $3000+ support a 6 team lan if that is in fact the "big change" that has been alluded to? Absolutely. Like it or not the $3000+ fits in very nicely with the current prize pool breakdown and could easily support larger lan attendance rather than simply giving the top 4 teams a bit more buffer for "breaking even".
well considering how killing has spoken on a main division i will give my thoughts on a 12 team invite division with a 6 team lan.
[b]Facts:[/b]
-They are adding $3000+ to the prize pool.
-Current last place lan team earns $1200.
[b]Speculations:[/b]
-Assume 5th and 6th place teams will earn less than 4th place, and assume that 4th place winnings will not be diminished.
-Given this, the $3000+ could easily cover the current prize pool plus the suspected winnings of ~$1000 for 5th and 6th place and still give a small bump to the top four teams winnings.
Can we support and sustain a 12 team invite division? I'm not sure myself. Will the extra $3000+ support a 6 team lan if that is in fact the "big change" that has been alluded to? Absolutely. Like it or not the $3000+ fits in very nicely with the current prize pool breakdown and could easily support larger lan attendance rather than simply giving the top 4 teams a bit more buffer for "breaking even".
[b]Facts:[/b]
-They are adding $3000+ to the prize pool.
-Current last place lan team earns $1200.
[b]Speculations:[/b]
-Assume 5th and 6th place teams will earn less than 4th place, and assume that 4th place winnings will not be diminished.
-Given this, the $3000+ could easily cover the current prize pool plus the suspected winnings of ~$1000 for 5th and 6th place and still give a small bump to the top four teams winnings.
Can we support and sustain a 12 team invite division? I'm not sure myself. Will the extra $3000+ support a 6 team lan if that is in fact the "big change" that has been alluded to? Absolutely. Like it or not the $3000+ fits in very nicely with the current prize pool breakdown and could easily support larger lan attendance rather than simply giving the top 4 teams a bit more buffer for "breaking even".
Looking at past ESEA LANs (CSS Season 12 to be specific), 5th and 6th both received $1000 each; that's $2000 already out from the $3000+ increase in prize pool money that TF2 will receive this season. As for the extra $1000 or so, we could either see a $250 prize increase across the board for 1st to 4th, or see a waterfall effect with 1st adding on another $500, 2nd with $250, and 3rd/4th with an extra $125 in prize money.
Now if they decide to make 5th/6th place with $1200 instead of $1000 in winnings, we could either see a $150 flat increase for 1st to 4th, or waterfall like $300/$150/$75/$75. Either way, a 6 team LAN is very simple to implement and support according to the current prize pool that exists for TF2 LAN
Looking at past ESEA LANs (CSS Season 12 to be specific), 5th and 6th both received $1000 each; that's $2000 already out from the $3000+ increase in prize pool money that TF2 will receive this season. As for the extra $1000 or so, we could either see a $250 prize increase across the board for 1st to 4th, or see a waterfall effect with 1st adding on another $500, 2nd with $250, and 3rd/4th with an extra $125 in prize money.
Now if they decide to make 5th/6th place with $1200 instead of $1000 in winnings, we could either see a $150 flat increase for 1st to 4th, or waterfall like $300/$150/$75/$75. Either way, a 6 team LAN is very simple to implement and support according to the current prize pool that exists for TF2 LAN
Now if they decide to make 5th/6th place with $1200 instead of $1000 in winnings, we could either see a $150 flat increase for 1st to 4th, or waterfall like $300/$150/$75/$75. Either way, a 6 team LAN is very simple to implement and support according to the current prize pool that exists for TF2 LAN
Wouldn't sending more teams to LAN for small 5th-6th place prizes just force the community to donate even more money to send less competitive teams to LAN? It seems like a waste, why not just increase the prizes for 4 teams so they don't have to rely on donations every season?
And with a 12 team invite division, how many of those teams are actually going to be competitive? What's the point of adding more teams to get rolled by the top invite teams?
Wouldn't sending more teams to LAN for small 5th-6th place prizes just force the community to donate even more money to send less competitive teams to LAN? It seems like a waste, why not just increase the prizes for 4 teams so they don't have to rely on donations every season?
And with a 12 team invite division, how many of those teams are actually going to be competitive? What's the point of adding more teams to get rolled by the top invite teams?
And with a 12 team invite division, how many of those teams are actually going to be competitive? What's the point of adding more teams to get rolled by the top invite teams?
swiperWouldn't sending more teams to LAN for small 5th-6th place prizes just force the community to donate even more money to send less competitive teams to LAN? It seems like a waste, why not just increase the prizes for 4 teams so they don't have to rely on donations every season?
And with a 12 team invite division, how many of those teams are actually going to be competitive? What's the point of adding more teams to get rolled by the top invite teams?
With the quality of the top IM teams this season (See Mad Men, r5, ostrich poachers), combined with the rumoured new Invite teams being formed for S14 and the existing Invite teams sticking around for S14, I expect S14 to be much more competitive if they implement 12 team Invite.
[quote=swiper]Wouldn't sending more teams to LAN for small 5th-6th place prizes just force the community to donate even more money to send less competitive teams to LAN? It seems like a waste, why not just increase the prizes for 4 teams so they don't have to rely on donations every season?
And with a 12 team invite division, how many of those teams are actually going to be competitive? What's the point of adding more teams to get rolled by the top invite teams?[/quote]With the quality of the top IM teams this season (See Mad Men, r5, ostrich poachers), combined with the rumoured new Invite teams being formed for S14 and the existing Invite teams sticking around for S14, I expect S14 to be much more competitive if they implement 12 team Invite.
And with a 12 team invite division, how many of those teams are actually going to be competitive? What's the point of adding more teams to get rolled by the top invite teams?[/quote]With the quality of the top IM teams this season (See Mad Men, r5, ostrich poachers), combined with the rumoured new Invite teams being formed for S14 and the existing Invite teams sticking around for S14, I expect S14 to be much more competitive if they implement 12 team Invite.
the point isnt being competitive for first place. a 12 team invite will undoubtedly make the middle of the pack more interesting and competitive. An invite division with only classic mixup and bp/HRG would be more "competitive" in the sense that you are talking about, but it would be a shitty division anyways.
as for community donations, do you think there were community donation drives for sending all of the 8 CS:GO teams to lan? I dont follow CS but, likely not. At this point it seems like community donations are a given for sending teams to lan but its actually a fairly new thing within this community.
the point isnt being competitive for first place. a 12 team invite will undoubtedly make the middle of the pack more interesting and competitive. An invite division with only classic mixup and bp/HRG would be more "competitive" in the sense that you are talking about, but it would be a shitty division anyways.
as for community donations, do you think there were community donation drives for sending all of the 8 CS:GO teams to lan? I dont follow CS but, likely not. At this point it seems like community donations are a given for sending teams to lan but its actually a fairly new thing within this community.
as for community donations, do you think there were community donation drives for sending all of the 8 CS:GO teams to lan? I dont follow CS but, likely not. At this point it seems like community donations are a given for sending teams to lan but its actually a fairly new thing within this community.
Don't most (or at least more than TF2) CSGO invite teams have sponsors, willing to cough at least a bit of money for travel expenses?
Don't most (or at least more than TF2) CSGO invite teams have sponsors, willing to cough at least a bit of money for travel expenses?
reillyDon't most (or at least more than TF2) CSGO invite teams have sponsors, willing to cough at least a bit of money for travel expenses?
no
http://play.esea.net/index.php?s=league&d=standings&division_id=2016
curse is really the only big name i see, followed by quantic/dynamic/hrg who all likely don't come close to covering all the costs
[quote=reilly]Don't most (or at least more than TF2) CSGO invite teams have sponsors, willing to cough at least a bit of money for travel expenses?[/quote]
no
http://play.esea.net/index.php?s=league&d=standings&division_id=2016
curse is really the only big name i see, followed by quantic/dynamic/hrg who all likely don't come close to covering all the costs
no
http://play.esea.net/index.php?s=league&d=standings&division_id=2016
curse is really the only big name i see, followed by quantic/dynamic/hrg who all likely don't come close to covering all the costs
Hmm. What about the European ones? It might just be my perspective, and the fact I don't follow the scene, but it seems like they have more sponsors (NiP, Na'Vi) and competition (Dreamhack, etc.). Not to mention some European teams are flying to America for this LAN right? It seems stupid for the to bother paying that out of their pockets, do they not have sponsors?
Hmm. What about the European ones? It might just be my perspective, and the fact I don't follow the scene, but it seems like they have more sponsors (NiP, Na'Vi) and competition (Dreamhack, etc.). Not to mention some European teams are flying to America for this LAN right? It seems stupid for the to bother paying that out of their pockets, do they not have sponsors?
here's the european list:
http://play.esea.net/index.php?s=league&d=standings&division_id=2010
i'd assume most teams there are much better off
here's the european list:
http://play.esea.net/index.php?s=league&d=standings&division_id=2010
i'd assume most teams there are much better off
http://play.esea.net/index.php?s=league&d=standings&division_id=2010
i'd assume most teams there are much better off
Ideally, what I'd love to have is an invite division with a very low mortality rate. This would make the end of the season interesting for everyone. At this point, I'd be forced to move down teams from invite so even if they are out of the playoff hunt, they are still playing for their lives which makes for great games/storylines. I'm really happy with the newer batch of top IM/new Invite teams. They all strike me as teams that won't die just because they aren't top of their division. Invite looks like it's only a really good path.
Ideally, what I'd love to have is an invite division with a very low mortality rate. This would make the end of the season interesting for everyone. At this point, I'd be forced to move down teams from invite so even if they are out of the playoff hunt, they are still playing for their lives which makes for great games/storylines. I'm really happy with the newer batch of top IM/new Invite teams. They all strike me as teams that won't die just because they aren't top of their division. Invite looks like it's only a really good path.
enigmahere's the european list:
http://play.esea.net/index.php?s=league&d=standings&division_id=2010
i'd assume most teams there are much better off
NiP is fine, VERYGAMES is a server hosting site partnered with EA, virtus pro has been around long enough to hoard money, plus BenQ and GameTrix are good sponsors. As for nFaculty, I have no clue who they are, but I'm guessing they have sponsors who'll keep them from losing money to fly out to dallas.
[quote=enigma]here's the european list:
http://play.esea.net/index.php?s=league&d=standings&division_id=2010
i'd assume most teams there are much better off[/quote]
NiP is fine, VERYGAMES is a server hosting site partnered with EA, virtus pro has been around long enough to hoard money, plus BenQ and GameTrix are good sponsors. As for nFaculty, I have no clue who they are, but I'm guessing they have sponsors who'll keep them from losing money to fly out to dallas.
http://play.esea.net/index.php?s=league&d=standings&division_id=2010
i'd assume most teams there are much better off[/quote]
NiP is fine, VERYGAMES is a server hosting site partnered with EA, virtus pro has been around long enough to hoard money, plus BenQ and GameTrix are good sponsors. As for nFaculty, I have no clue who they are, but I'm guessing they have sponsors who'll keep them from losing money to fly out to dallas.
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