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Growing competitive tf2
61
#61
2 Frags +
vanillaTwitchTVJohn
I need to learn to cast. This is something I've said for a very long time. I have a gigantic youtube audience and an avid twitter following that will probably watch whatever I do. I'm a huge vagina and I'm terrified at the thought of casting and looking like an idiot. I need to guest cast with some people a few times to see where it goes. I have the knowledge of the game, but I truthfully feel like my casting ability hovers somewhere between shit ass dick and and horrible.

I feel like casting and promotion is probably my best spot, as I'm not very uhhhh... good at the game. I can hang, but I'm nowhere near the level of most of you guys.

I'll bet you dollars to donuts (that's a saying, right?) that both kip and Sal would love to have you guest cast w/ them. And once you get the hang of it, there's clearly TONS of matches that can be casted, both highlander and 6v6. I know that I'll be following any and every cast that I can.

I'm already all over that shit

[quote=vanilla][quote=TwitchTVJohn]

I need to learn to cast. This is something I've said for a very long time. I have a gigantic youtube audience and an avid twitter following that will probably watch whatever I do. I'm a huge vagina and I'm terrified at the thought of casting and looking like an idiot. I need to guest cast with some people a few times to see where it goes. I have the knowledge of the game, but I truthfully feel like my casting ability hovers somewhere between shit ass dick and and horrible.


I feel like casting and promotion is probably my best spot, as I'm not very uhhhh... good at the game. I can hang, but I'm nowhere near the level of most of you guys.[/quote]



I'll bet you dollars to donuts (that's a saying, right?) that both kip and Sal would love to have you guest cast w/ them. And once you get the hang of it, there's clearly TONS of matches that can be casted, both highlander and 6v6. I know that I'll be following any and every cast that I can.[/quote]


I'm already all over that shit
62
#62
1 Frags +
question
I still watch competitive games, still love it. But I don't think I'll ever take part in a lobby again. If anything, I COULD deal with the fact that I'm doing bad. But I don't want to screw over my team everytime I play, it's just pointless.

I've heard about lobbies sometime being labelled 'newb lobbies', which I assume are lobbies for 'pubstars' like me who sucks against average lobby players. But I haven't seen one in the few days I tried that stuff.

my two cents, I guess.

I know what you mean, but I feel like lobbies are probably the worst way to get into comp. These newbie mixes (Rays Fire host pugs for newbies, the NA Newbie mix, and there's a Highlander Newbie mix group starting up as well) are SO much better as there are patient coaches and players that are all trying to learn the game as well.

[quote=question]

I still watch competitive games, still love it. But I don't think I'll ever take part in a lobby again. If anything, I COULD deal with the fact that I'm doing bad. But I don't want to screw over my team everytime I play, it's just pointless.

I've heard about lobbies sometime being labelled 'newb lobbies', which I assume are lobbies for 'pubstars' like me who sucks against average lobby players. But I haven't seen one in the few days I tried that stuff.



my two cents, I guess.[/quote]


I know what you mean, but I feel like lobbies are probably the worst way to get into comp. These newbie mixes (Rays Fire host pugs for newbies, the NA Newbie mix, and there's a Highlander Newbie mix group starting up as well) are SO much better as there are patient coaches and players that are all trying to learn the game as well.
63
#63
Twitch
2 Frags +
SalamancervanillaTwitchTVJohn
I need to learn to cast. This is something I've said for a very long time. I have a gigantic youtube audience and an avid twitter following that will probably watch whatever I do. I'm a huge vagina and I'm terrified at the thought of casting and looking like an idiot. I need to guest cast with some people a few times to see where it goes. I have the knowledge of the game, but I truthfully feel like my casting ability hovers somewhere between shit ass dick and and horrible.

I feel like casting and promotion is probably my best spot, as I'm not very uhhhh... good at the game. I can hang, but I'm nowhere near the level of most of you guys.

I'll bet you dollars to donuts (that's a saying, right?) that both kip and Sal would love to have you guest cast w/ them. And once you get the hang of it, there's clearly TONS of matches that can be casted, both highlander and 6v6. I know that I'll be following any and every cast that I can.

I'm already all over that shit

Boys, I know I'm incredibly attractive, but you don't need to inflate my ego.

[quote=Salamancer][quote=vanilla][quote=TwitchTVJohn]

I need to learn to cast. This is something I've said for a very long time. I have a gigantic youtube audience and an avid twitter following that will probably watch whatever I do. I'm a huge vagina and I'm terrified at the thought of casting and looking like an idiot. I need to guest cast with some people a few times to see where it goes. I have the knowledge of the game, but I truthfully feel like my casting ability hovers somewhere between shit ass dick and and horrible.


I feel like casting and promotion is probably my best spot, as I'm not very uhhhh... good at the game. I can hang, but I'm nowhere near the level of most of you guys.[/quote]



I'll bet you dollars to donuts (that's a saying, right?) that both kip and Sal would love to have you guest cast w/ them. And once you get the hang of it, there's clearly TONS of matches that can be casted, both highlander and 6v6. I know that I'll be following any and every cast that I can.[/quote]


I'm already all over that shit[/quote]


Boys, I know I'm incredibly attractive, but you don't need to inflate my ego.
64
#64
3 Frags +

I thought i might share my opinion here; i've never played competitive tf2, but i follow the scene somewhat closely (invite streams, lan casts, etc). I would say a resource i would really like to see is something right on this site that provides a hub for new players: newbie mix info, pugs, mentor sessions (no matter how infrequent), faqs, etc

I may be off here, but i would say a lot of people who are interested in the scene have the initiative to find out where to go (it's not that difficult), but are apprehensive about taking that dive into the "deep end," so to speak. Organizing fun and inviting environments to ease in new players might help with that hurdle. Just my 2C.

I thought i might share my opinion here; i've never played competitive tf2, but i follow the scene somewhat closely (invite streams, lan casts, etc). I would say a resource i would really like to see is something right on this site that provides a hub for new players: newbie mix info, pugs, mentor sessions (no matter how infrequent), faqs, etc

I may be off here, but i would say a lot of people who are interested in the scene have the initiative to find out where to go (it's not that difficult), but are apprehensive about taking that dive into the "deep end," so to speak. Organizing fun and inviting environments to ease in new players might help with that hurdle. Just my 2C.
65
#65
0 Frags +
vanillaquestion
I still watch competitive games, still love it. But I don't think I'll ever take part in a lobby again. If anything, I COULD deal with the fact that I'm doing bad. But I don't want to screw over my team everytime I play, it's just pointless.

I've heard about lobbies sometime being labelled 'newb lobbies', which I assume are lobbies for 'pubstars' like me who sucks against average lobby players. But I haven't seen one in the few days I tried that stuff.

my two cents, I guess.

I know what you mean, but I feel like lobbies are probably the worst way to get into comp. These newbie mixes (Rays Fire host pugs for newbies, the NA Newbie mix, and there's a Highlander Newbie mix group starting up as well) are SO much better as there are patient coaches and players that are all trying to learn the game as well.

but that shit's intimidating. You have to talk, you have to comm, and people are asking why you didn't do stuff all the time.

[quote=vanilla][quote=question]

I still watch competitive games, still love it. But I don't think I'll ever take part in a lobby again. If anything, I COULD deal with the fact that I'm doing bad. But I don't want to screw over my team everytime I play, it's just pointless.

I've heard about lobbies sometime being labelled 'newb lobbies', which I assume are lobbies for 'pubstars' like me who sucks against average lobby players. But I haven't seen one in the few days I tried that stuff.



my two cents, I guess.[/quote]


I know what you mean, but I feel like lobbies are probably the worst way to get into comp. These newbie mixes (Rays Fire host pugs for newbies, the NA Newbie mix, and there's a Highlander Newbie mix group starting up as well) are SO much better as there are patient coaches and players that are all trying to learn the game as well.[/quote]
but that shit's intimidating. You have to talk, you have to comm, and people are asking why you didn't do stuff all the time.
66
#66
13 Frags +
brendenI may be off here, but i would say a lot of people who are interested in the scene have the initiative to find out where to go (it's not that difficult), but are apprehensive about taking that dive into the "deep end," so to speak. Organizing fun and inviting environments to ease in new players might help with that hurdle. Just my 2C.

We ran around 30 PUGs today. You should join the newbie mix group :)

[quote=brenden]
I may be off here, but i would say a lot of people who are interested in the scene have the initiative to find out where to go (it's not that difficult), but are apprehensive about taking that dive into the "deep end," so to speak. Organizing fun and inviting environments to ease in new players might help with that hurdle. Just my 2C.[/quote]

We ran around 30 PUGs today. You should join the newbie mix group :)
67
#67
3 Frags +
VickMbrendenI may be off here, but i would say a lot of people who are interested in the scene have the initiative to find out where to go (it's not that difficult), but are apprehensive about taking that dive into the "deep end," so to speak. Organizing fun and inviting environments to ease in new players might help with that hurdle. Just my 2C.
We ran around 30 PUGs today. You should join the newbie mix group :)

30 pugs, wow thats a lot.

[quote=VickM][quote=brenden]
I may be off here, but i would say a lot of people who are interested in the scene have the initiative to find out where to go (it's not that difficult), but are apprehensive about taking that dive into the "deep end," so to speak. Organizing fun and inviting environments to ease in new players might help with that hurdle. Just my 2C.[/quote]

We ran around 30 PUGs today. You should join the newbie mix group :)[/quote]

30 pugs, wow thats a lot.
68
#68
6 Frags +
Steelfirezbut that shit's intimidating. You have to talk, you have to comm, and people are asking why you didn't do stuff all the time.

You have to talk and comm in any comp format, so if comp tf2 is something you want to do, you gotta get used to that. As for people asking why you weren't doing something, all you gotta say is "I'm a noob and I didn't know." And (hopefully) the way these mixes are run, the coach or whoever will say "No big deal, next time, just do this in that situation." Boom, no pressure. Just remember that pretty much everybody else in those mixes are in the same place you are.

If you're looking for a better, easier, more inviting way to get into 6v6, I think you're gonna be searching for a looooooong time :D

[quote=Steelfirez]
but that shit's intimidating. You have to talk, you have to comm, and people are asking why you didn't do stuff all the time.[/quote]


You have to talk and comm in any comp format, so if comp tf2 is something you want to do, you gotta get used to that. As for people asking why you weren't doing something, all you gotta say is "I'm a noob and I didn't know." And (hopefully) the way these mixes are run, the coach or whoever will say "No big deal, next time, just do this in that situation." Boom, no pressure. Just remember that pretty much everybody else in those mixes are in the same place you are.

If you're looking for a better, easier, more inviting way to get into 6v6, I think you're gonna be searching for a looooooong time :D
69
#69
2 Frags +

Random low-level pub player's opinion here. My only real involvement with competitive tf2 is watching casts, demo reviews, commentaries etc of matches. If it were easier to find these things from tf2/steam itself more people would probably do the same. maybe there's a steam group i should be joining or something?

i'd love to get involved in newbie mixes or whatever but (a) i'm not good enough and (b) i don't have a mic. It'll probably be a long time until i can actually play competitive tf2. Like watching it though.

Obviously developer support (eg a scoreboard on the main tf2 menu listing results of recent matches and giving direct links to stvs or whatever) isn't going to happen although that would be nice, but at least knowing when casts are going to happen, where i can watch a game myself, etc would be nice.

Random low-level pub player's opinion here. My only real involvement with competitive tf2 is watching casts, demo reviews, commentaries etc of matches. If it were easier to find these things from tf2/steam itself more people would probably do the same. maybe there's a steam group i should be joining or something?

i'd love to get involved in newbie mixes or whatever but (a) i'm not good enough and (b) i don't have a mic. It'll probably be a long time until i can actually [i]play[/i] competitive tf2. Like watching it though.

Obviously developer support (eg a scoreboard on the main tf2 menu listing results of recent matches and giving direct links to stvs or whatever) isn't going to happen although that would be nice, but at least knowing when casts are going to happen, where i can watch a game myself, etc would be nice.
70
#70
1 Frags +

I think it would be good to also try to advertise competitive tf2 in pub communities. Most of them have steam groups and forums where someone could post links to this site, newbie mix, tf2lobby, etc. along with some explanation/introduction (eg don't choose spy in a 6s lobby). It also might be helpful to try to contact leaders/admins of large pub communities to make them aware that these sites exist so maybe they can help direct regulars/pubstars and other people who might be interested in competitive tf2 there. A lot of pubbers probably don't go on SPUF/reddit/etc, so contacting them directly through their pub communities might be helpful.

Also, update/add to the tf2 wiki - http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Competitive_play

I think it would be good to also try to advertise competitive tf2 in pub communities. Most of them have steam groups and forums where someone could post links to this site, newbie mix, tf2lobby, etc. along with some explanation/introduction (eg don't choose spy in a 6s lobby). It also might be helpful to try to contact leaders/admins of large pub communities to make them aware that these sites exist so maybe they can help direct regulars/pubstars and other people who might be interested in competitive tf2 there. A lot of pubbers probably don't go on SPUF/reddit/etc, so contacting them directly through their pub communities might be helpful.

Also, update/add to the tf2 wiki - http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Competitive_play
71
#71
8 Frags +

From my own limited experience, my input is this: I think there are two main things that should be focused on to help bring in new comp players.

1. Getting them excited about it.

Streams are great for getting people acquainted with each other and high level players within the game, but things like good casts, povs with comms, etc. are really exciting and interesting to people who are new to comp, or even to TF2 in general. Unfortunately they are currently just way too disorganized and hard to find, especially for people who are just trying to get into it and track a team or player's performances. When they are able to do that, they can really get sucked in fast.

I think there needs to be a database of match casts and player POVs that can be tied into a schedule of matches, and team/player profile pages. Newbies won't be on the STV/Mumble right away, so it's important to have easy access to past matches.

So, for example, someone can look at a match schedule and click the info for an interesting match and see the video/video links, then they watch some and say, "wow, that one team is great" and click on their team profile, and get links to all their past matches with videos. Then they go, "damn, that one player keeps making huge plays in all these matches" so they go to his profile, and get links for all his previous POVs with comms, etc. Quickly they can become an excited, invested fan.

2. Making it accessible to them easily and with low pressure.

A certain percentage of the fans made above will become very interested in trying it out for themselves. To get them in for the long term, there needs to be a low barrier to entry, and a clear path of progression. I think the best idea so far is having a tf2lobbyesque solution for teamfortress.tv. I do agree with people who say the skill level among even the current casual low-level competitive community would be too high for the majority of new players, so either it needs to get big really fast, so the average level goes down, or there needs to be some kind of difficulty/level/skill/whatever tracking system, so that steel-level people don't wander into an invite lobby unawares and have their competitive hopes crushed right off the bat.

The same system could also (as far as i know, having no technical knowledge of it) be used for scheduled newbie mixes with mentors on each team, and even newbie mix lobbies, which could start up when 2 admin mentors create a lobby together or something.

I think we have a very passionate community, but our technical resources and tools for growing it are fragmented and not very advanced at the moment. It's ok for people who have spent the time to dig into and get used to it, but it's a high barrier for people who are completely new to competitive tf2, or who may have a casual interest that a less intimidating set of resources might nurture.

In any case, thanks to tf.tv and the people in here for making strides in the right direction.

Quick mockup for a visual idea of some of the things I'm talking about:
http://i.imgur.com/DFE2v.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/DFE2v.jpg

From my own limited experience, my input is this: I think there are two main things that should be focused on to help bring in new comp players.

1. Getting them excited about it.

Streams are great for getting people acquainted with each other and high level players within the game, but things like good casts, povs with comms, etc. are really exciting and interesting to people who are new to comp, or even to TF2 in general. Unfortunately they are currently just way too disorganized and hard to find, especially for people who are just trying to get into it and track a team or player's performances. When they are able to do that, they can really get sucked in fast.

I think there needs to be a database of match casts and player POVs that can be tied into a schedule of matches, and team/player profile pages. Newbies won't be on the STV/Mumble right away, so it's important to have easy access to past matches.

So, for example, someone can look at a match schedule and click the info for an interesting match and see the video/video links, then they watch some and say, "wow, that one team is great" and click on their team profile, and get links to all their past matches with videos. Then they go, "damn, that one player keeps making huge plays in all these matches" so they go to his profile, and get links for all his previous POVs with comms, etc. Quickly they can become an excited, invested fan.

2. Making it accessible to them easily and with low pressure.

A certain percentage of the fans made above will become very interested in trying it out for themselves. To get them in for the long term, there needs to be a low barrier to entry, and a clear path of progression. I think the best idea so far is having a tf2lobbyesque solution for teamfortress.tv. I do agree with people who say the skill level among even the current casual low-level competitive community would be too high for the majority of new players, so either it needs to get big really fast, so the average level goes down, or there needs to be some kind of difficulty/level/skill/whatever tracking system, so that steel-level people don't wander into an invite lobby unawares and have their competitive hopes crushed right off the bat.

The same system could also (as far as i know, having no technical knowledge of it) be used for scheduled newbie mixes with mentors on each team, and even newbie mix lobbies, which could start up when 2 admin mentors create a lobby together or something.

I think we have a very passionate community, but our technical resources and tools for growing it are fragmented and not very advanced at the moment. It's ok for people who have spent the time to dig into and get used to it, but it's a high barrier for people who are completely new to competitive tf2, or who may have a casual interest that a less intimidating set of resources might nurture.

In any case, thanks to tf.tv and the people in here for making strides in the right direction.

Quick mockup for a visual idea of some of the things I'm talking about:
http://i.imgur.com/DFE2v.jpg
[img]http://i.imgur.com/DFE2v.jpg[/img]
72
#72
4 Frags +
kiriRandom low-level pub player's opinion here. My only real involvement with competitive tf2 is watching casts, demo reviews, commentaries etc of matches. If it were easier to find these things from tf2/steam itself more people would probably do the same. maybe there's a steam group i should be joining or something?

i'd love to get involved in newbie mixes or whatever but (a) i'm not good enough and (b) i don't have a mic. It'll probably be a long time until i can actually play competitive tf2. Like watching it though.

Obviously developer support (eg a scoreboard on the main tf2 menu listing results of recent matches and giving direct links to stvs or whatever) isn't going to happen although that would be nice, but at least knowing when casts are going to happen, where i can watch a game myself, etc would be nice.

Some steam groups you can check out:
steamcommunity.com/groups/newmapweekends
steamcommunity.com/groups/na6v6newbiemix
steamcommunity.com/groups/tf2mix

A mic absolutely essential for playing competitively and communication will help you learn. Cheap mics are around if you look; you don't need the fanciest headset to start getting involved. In the meantime, you can ask players running pugs if it's okay for you to just spectate while in mumble - then you can get both game and communication experience. Everyone goes there to learn, so don't worry if you're unable to play on the same level - ask questions, listen to advice, and practice it in future games. It's better to play and learn something than to play and never learn anything.

I've also just completed a weekly schedule article listing match times for ESEA Invite and other leagues to be released every Sunday. Make sure to check back here Sunday morning, and you can also follow our Twitter for match updates: twitter.com/TeamFortressTV

[quote=kiri]Random low-level pub player's opinion here. My only real involvement with competitive tf2 is watching casts, demo reviews, commentaries etc of matches. If it were easier to find these things from tf2/steam itself more people would probably do the same. maybe there's a steam group i should be joining or something?

i'd love to get involved in newbie mixes or whatever but (a) i'm not good enough and (b) i don't have a mic. It'll probably be a long time until i can actually [i]play[/i] competitive tf2. Like watching it though.

Obviously developer support (eg a scoreboard on the main tf2 menu listing results of recent matches and giving direct links to stvs or whatever) isn't going to happen although that would be nice, but at least knowing when casts are going to happen, where i can watch a game myself, etc would be nice.[/quote]

Some steam groups you can check out:
steamcommunity.com/groups/newmapweekends
steamcommunity.com/groups/na6v6newbiemix
steamcommunity.com/groups/tf2mix

A mic absolutely essential for playing competitively and communication will help you learn. Cheap mics are around if you look; you don't need the fanciest headset to start getting involved. In the meantime, you can ask players running pugs if it's okay for you to just spectate while in mumble - then you can get both game and communication experience. Everyone goes there to learn, so don't worry if you're unable to play on the same level - ask questions, listen to advice, and practice it in future games. It's better to play and learn something than to play and never learn anything.

I've also just completed a weekly schedule article listing match times for ESEA Invite and other leagues to be released every Sunday. Make sure to check back here Sunday morning, and you can also follow our Twitter for match updates: twitter.com/TeamFortressTV
73
#73
4 Frags +

I think more roster stability would go a long way towards helping comp tf2- right now people want to root for their favorite players/teams but it seems like everyone (except for a few core people on LG/Mix/Whales) is on a different team every season.

Just my 2 cents as a fan and observer.

I think more roster stability would go a long way towards helping comp tf2- right now people want to root for their favorite players/teams but it seems like everyone (except for a few core people on LG/Mix/Whales) is on a different team every season.

Just my 2 cents as a fan and observer.
74
#74
3 Frags +

hi, low level pubber here. I think a way to grow competitive tf2 is to have pro players do youtube commentaries based on their pug adventures or just about anything. "successful" tf2 youtubers like STAR has a few thousand subscribers, im sure people would watch invite players commentaries if its entertaining enough. Ive also noticed that currently theres a growing number of streamers on twitch tv and honestly i think that some of these streamers such as tyrone will can grow competitive tf2 if he can make tf2 videos available to a wider audience through youtube. Personally, after watching these streams and i46, it has galvanized me to start learning/playing competitive matches (after my exams)and I think that there are many people like me just that they havent discovered these streams and videos that are available online =3

hi, low level pubber here. I think a way to grow competitive tf2 is to have pro players do youtube commentaries based on their pug adventures or just about anything. "successful" tf2 youtubers like STAR has a few thousand subscribers, im sure people would watch invite players commentaries if its entertaining enough. Ive also noticed that currently theres a growing number of streamers on twitch tv and honestly i think that some of these streamers such as tyrone will can grow competitive tf2 if he can make tf2 videos available to a wider audience through youtube. Personally, after watching these streams and i46, it has galvanized me to start learning/playing competitive matches (after my exams)and I think that there are many people like me just that they havent discovered these streams and videos that are available online =3
75
#75
6 Frags +

STAR likes competitive, maybe he can get some people into comp.

STAR likes competitive, maybe he can get some people into comp.
76
#76
6 Frags +
JdudeSTAR likes competitive, maybe he can get some people into comp.

I watched a few (actually one) videos where he talks about it and how to get into, and how fun it is and stuff. And I agree, getting STAR to promote this kind of stuff would be ideal.

Also, let me tell you what happened to me today. I was in this server I regulary go to. It's an MGE one that whenever we have enough numbers we hop on to a mix match. The thing is it's usually the same people that play, every time. You don't get picked like never, and they are always the same guys (unless one of the most sensible guys over there says 'Guys, there's people they haven't played, let them'). Of course sometimes there's a guy or two that take the games WAY to seriously and ends up yelling at you because you did something wrong. Kinda kills your mood to keep playing with them.

In fact, it did kill my mood to play there, and decided to try the newbie mixes (because I'm still a new guy and my skills and gamesense are bad) even though I have like 200 ping. Gotta say, what I found there was completely different, and encouraged me to keep trying and playing. For that I thank all the coaches and people that are making the Newbie Mixes possible.

But yes, advertise this things, get people that tried to play there tell their experience (which I'm sure will be positive) and get popular comp players to talk about this. That's my idea at least.

[quote=Jdude]STAR likes competitive, maybe he can get some people into comp.[/quote]
I watched a few (actually one) videos where he talks about it and how to get into, and how fun it is and stuff. And I agree, getting STAR to promote this kind of stuff would be ideal.


Also, let me tell you what happened to me today. I was in this server I regulary go to. It's an MGE one that whenever we have enough numbers we hop on to a mix match. The thing is it's usually the same people that play, every time. You don't get picked like never, and they are always the same guys (unless one of the most sensible guys over there says 'Guys, there's people they haven't played, let them'). Of course sometimes there's a guy or two that take the games WAY to seriously and ends up yelling at you because you did something wrong. Kinda kills your mood to keep playing with them.

In fact, it did kill my mood to play there, and decided to try the newbie mixes (because I'm still a new guy and my skills and gamesense are bad) even though I have like 200 ping. Gotta say, what I found there was completely different, and encouraged me to keep trying and playing. For that I thank all the coaches and people that are making the Newbie Mixes possible.

But yes, advertise this things, get people that tried to play there tell their experience (which I'm sure will be positive) and get popular comp players to talk about this. That's my idea at least.
77
#77
2 Frags +

Roster changes happen and until we can have contracts its going to continue to happen. I encourage teams to stick together because its important in building relationships with fans. Many players think the grass is always greener on the other side when in reality thats not the case. Granted, I don't play competitivly so wtf do I know.

I had a long talk with Pyyyour and Ruwin at LAN on this subject (build tf2). We spoke about streaming and letting people listen in on mumble. That was a good first step. Now there are plenty of great tf2 streams to choose from covering a bunch of classes. The newbie mixes sounds like an awesome next step. However, people are still intimidated...hell...i am too.

The previously mentioned MGE vids would be great to remake. Those videos were really helpful for me to understand the game better. They need to be short and to the point.

We need to help players figure out the basics. For example, in SC2, 'probes and pylons' is often the first advice given to a new player. Once that is improved, introduce a new concept for the player to think about or execute. In my talks with some players, they didnt believe this comparison is appropriate. I still disagree entirely, I believe there are many basic things that pro players do without thinking about it. We need to identify those things and create a step by step plan that people can follow to try to improve. We need to be willing to hold hands and be patient as well as give a shit ton of encouragement.

This will break down the game in more easily digestible quantities and make the overall process less intimidating. The videos as they are now are too long, complicated, and go over too much. Just my thoughts, there have been a ton of great suggestions already and I really want to do what I can to help.

Roster changes happen and until we can have contracts its going to continue to happen. I encourage teams to stick together because its important in building relationships with fans. Many players think the grass is always greener on the other side when in reality thats not the case. Granted, I don't play competitivly so wtf do I know.

I had a long talk with Pyyyour and Ruwin at LAN on this subject (build tf2). We spoke about streaming and letting people listen in on mumble. That was a good first step. Now there are plenty of great tf2 streams to choose from covering a bunch of classes. The newbie mixes sounds like an awesome next step. However, people are still intimidated...hell...i am too.

The previously mentioned MGE vids would be great to remake. Those videos were really helpful for me to understand the game better. They need to be short and to the point.

We need to help players figure out the basics. For example, in SC2, 'probes and pylons' is often the first advice given to a new player. Once that is improved, introduce a new concept for the player to think about or execute. In my talks with some players, they didnt believe this comparison is appropriate. I still disagree entirely, I believe there are many basic things that pro players do without thinking about it. We need to identify those things and create a step by step plan that people can follow to try to improve. We need to be willing to hold hands and be patient as well as give a shit ton of encouragement.

This will break down the game in more easily digestible quantities and make the overall process less intimidating. The videos as they are now are too long, complicated, and go over too much. Just my thoughts, there have been a ton of great suggestions already and I really want to do what I can to help.
78
#78
Ascent
9 Frags +

Ill just say it now I guess, but I've already begged star a million times to advertise i46 and all the lans etc and he does. But basically starting with the Whales vs LG match tonight we're going to post produce cast games on his channel, talk about tf.tv, esea, comp tf2 in general. And we might do a "How to get into competitive" video but we figure if we upload casts and briefly talk about this stuff the people who want to play will go the extra mile to find out how to do things.

Ill just say it now I guess, but I've already begged star a million times to advertise i46 and all the lans etc and he does. But basically starting with the Whales vs LG match tonight we're going to post produce cast games on his channel, talk about tf.tv, esea, comp tf2 in general. And we might do a "How to get into competitive" video but we figure if we upload casts and briefly talk about this stuff the people who want to play will go the extra mile to find out how to do things.
79
#79
3 Frags +
Ma3laaIll just say it now I guess, but I've already begged star a million times to advertise i46 and all the lans etc and he does. But basically starting with the Whales vs LG match tonight we're going to post produce cast games on his channel, talk about tf.tv, esea, comp tf2 in general. And we might do a "How to get into competitive" video but we figure if we upload casts and briefly talk about this stuff the people who want to play will go the extra mile to find out how to do things.

I think the best way is to get him to post his POVs of comp gameplay. His followers idolize him and if he's doing it, they'll want to do it too.

[quote=Ma3laa]Ill just say it now I guess, but I've already begged star a million times to advertise i46 and all the lans etc and he does. But basically starting with the Whales vs LG match tonight we're going to post produce cast games on his channel, talk about tf.tv, esea, comp tf2 in general. And we might do a "How to get into competitive" video but we figure if we upload casts and briefly talk about this stuff the people who want to play will go the extra mile to find out how to do things.[/quote]
I think the best way is to get him to post his POVs of comp gameplay. His followers idolize him and if he's doing it, they'll want to do it too.
80
#80
2 Frags +

I want to tag on to the lobby issues that 'question' brought up.

When I first got into the 6's format, I was recommended to play in lobbies to get basic experience. After playing in my first few lobbies, I was completely discouraged from playing in the competitive format ever again; this was not because I was bad (which I was), but it was because of the deprecating attitudes that so many lobby players have. I knew I was going to be a horrible player, but I did not expect other people to tell me that I had caused their whole team to lose, or that I should go back to pubs.

To have newbies play with such rude players as their first taste of competitive TF2 will only steer them away from the comp scene. I think we should stop encouraging new players to start in lobbies, but instead encourage them to join the newbie mixes/watch streams/etc.

I want to tag on to the lobby issues that 'question' brought up.

When I first got into the 6's format, I was recommended to play in lobbies to get basic experience. After playing in my first few lobbies, I was completely discouraged from playing in the competitive format ever again; this was not because I was bad (which I was), but it was because of the deprecating attitudes that so many lobby players have. I knew I was going to be a horrible player, but I did not expect other people to tell me that I had caused their whole team to lose, or that I should go back to pubs.

To have newbies play with such rude players as their first taste of competitive TF2 will only steer them away from the comp scene. I think we should stop encouraging new players to start in lobbies, but instead encourage them to join the newbie mixes/watch streams/etc.
81
#81
-1 Frags +

If I had to execute a way to get new players into tf2 and grow the community I would create a league that is:

a) free
b) has a large cash prize
c) only new to comp tf2 players can play in, no esea people. (that way the teams don't get raped and give up and quit)
d) Advertise to pubbers and everyone who's new or wants to get into comp tf2 about this league and assure them the skill level is for new players only.

You have to give people who want to get into comp tf2 some kind of goal like winning something at a level they are capable of winning it at.

Assigning these new teams mentors through out the season to sit in on like a scrim a week wouldn't be a bad idea either. That makes it a competition to see who's the best mentor also lol, maybe the mentor can get a piece of the cash prize to.

If I had to execute a way to get new players into tf2 and grow the community I would create a league that is:

a) free
b) has a large cash prize
c) only new to comp tf2 players can play in, no esea people. (that way the teams don't get raped and give up and quit)
d) Advertise to pubbers and everyone who's new or wants to get into comp tf2 about this league and assure them the skill level is for new players only.

You have to give people who want to get into comp tf2 some kind of goal like winning something at a level they are capable of winning it at.

Assigning these new teams mentors through out the season to sit in on like a scrim a week wouldn't be a bad idea either. That makes it a competition to see who's the best mentor also lol, maybe the mentor can get a piece of the cash prize to.
82
#82
1 Frags +
dope-wolfIf I had to execute a way to get new players into tf2 and grow the community I would create a league that is:

a) free
b) has a large cash prize
c) only new to comp tf2 players can play in, no esea people. (that way the teams don't get raped and give up and quit)
d) Advertise to pubbers and everyone who's new or wants to get into comp tf2 about this league and assure them the skill level is for new players only.

You have to give people who want to get into comp tf2 some kind of goal like winning something at a level they are capable of winning it at.

Assigning these new teams mentors through out the season to sit in on like a scrim a week wouldn't be a bad idea either. That makes it a competition to see who's the best mentor also lol, maybe the mentor can get a piece of the cash prize to.

I feel that those league standards are completely unrealistic, how would you even go about getting a large cash prize if there are no entry fees? If you or others are willing to pay out of pocket for something like this then by all means do it, but until then I don't think it will work.

[quote=dope-wolf]If I had to execute a way to get new players into tf2 and grow the community I would create a league that is:

a) free
b) has a large cash prize
c) only new to comp tf2 players can play in, no esea people. (that way the teams don't get raped and give up and quit)
d) Advertise to pubbers and everyone who's new or wants to get into comp tf2 about this league and assure them the skill level is for new players only.

You have to give people who want to get into comp tf2 some kind of goal like winning something at a level they are capable of winning it at.

Assigning these new teams mentors through out the season to sit in on like a scrim a week wouldn't be a bad idea either. That makes it a competition to see who's the best mentor also lol, maybe the mentor can get a piece of the cash prize to.[/quote]

I feel that those league standards are completely unrealistic, how would you even go about getting a large cash prize if there are no entry fees? If you or others are willing to pay out of pocket for something like this then by all means do it, but until then I don't think it will work.
83
#83
0 Frags +
dellortdope-wolfIf I had to execute a way to get new players into tf2 and grow the community I would create a league that is:

a) free
b) has a large cash prize
c) only new to comp tf2 players can play in, no esea people. (that way the teams don't get raped and give up and quit)
d) Advertise to pubbers and everyone who's new or wants to get into comp tf2 about this league and assure them the skill level is for new players only.

You have to give people who want to get into comp tf2 some kind of goal like winning something at a level they are capable of winning it at.

Assigning these new teams mentors through out the season to sit in on like a scrim a week wouldn't be a bad idea either. That makes it a competition to see who's the best mentor also lol, maybe the mentor can get a piece of the cash prize to.

I feel that those league standards are completely unrealistic, how would you even go about getting a large cash prize if there are no entry fees? If you or others are willing to pay out of pocket for something like this then by all means do it, but until then I don't think it will work.

Not unrealistic if someone put's up prize money out of their pocket. Not talking tens of thousands of dollars, maybe 1 or 2 thousand.

[quote=dellort][quote=dope-wolf]If I had to execute a way to get new players into tf2 and grow the community I would create a league that is:

a) free
b) has a large cash prize
c) only new to comp tf2 players can play in, no esea people. (that way the teams don't get raped and give up and quit)
d) Advertise to pubbers and everyone who's new or wants to get into comp tf2 about this league and assure them the skill level is for new players only.

You have to give people who want to get into comp tf2 some kind of goal like winning something at a level they are capable of winning it at.

Assigning these new teams mentors through out the season to sit in on like a scrim a week wouldn't be a bad idea either. That makes it a competition to see who's the best mentor also lol, maybe the mentor can get a piece of the cash prize to.[/quote]

I feel that those league standards are completely unrealistic, how would you even go about getting a large cash prize if there are no entry fees? If you or others are willing to pay out of pocket for something like this then by all means do it, but until then I don't think it will work.[/quote]


Not unrealistic if someone put's up prize money out of their pocket. Not talking tens of thousands of dollars, maybe 1 or 2 thousand.
84
#84
0 Frags +
dope-wolfdellortdope-wolfIf I had to execute a way to get new players into tf2 and grow the community I would create a league that is:

a) free
b) has a large cash prize
c) only new to comp tf2 players can play in, no esea people. (that way the teams don't get raped and give up and quit)
d) Advertise to pubbers and everyone who's new or wants to get into comp tf2 about this league and assure them the skill level is for new players only.

You have to give people who want to get into comp tf2 some kind of goal like winning something at a level they are capable of winning it at.

Assigning these new teams mentors through out the season to sit in on like a scrim a week wouldn't be a bad idea either. That makes it a competition to see who's the best mentor also lol, maybe the mentor can get a piece of the cash prize to.

I feel that those league standards are completely unrealistic, how would you even go about getting a large cash prize if there are no entry fees? If you or others are willing to pay out of pocket for something like this then by all means do it, but until then I don't think it will work.

Not unrealistic if someone put's up prize money out of their pocket. Not talking tens of thousands of dollars, maybe 1 or 2 thousand.

I'll be amazed if you can find someone willing to put out $1000+ from their own pocket for an online league.

[quote=dope-wolf][quote=dellort][quote=dope-wolf]If I had to execute a way to get new players into tf2 and grow the community I would create a league that is:

a) free
b) has a large cash prize
c) only new to comp tf2 players can play in, no esea people. (that way the teams don't get raped and give up and quit)
d) Advertise to pubbers and everyone who's new or wants to get into comp tf2 about this league and assure them the skill level is for new players only.

You have to give people who want to get into comp tf2 some kind of goal like winning something at a level they are capable of winning it at.

Assigning these new teams mentors through out the season to sit in on like a scrim a week wouldn't be a bad idea either. That makes it a competition to see who's the best mentor also lol, maybe the mentor can get a piece of the cash prize to.[/quote]

I feel that those league standards are completely unrealistic, how would you even go about getting a large cash prize if there are no entry fees? If you or others are willing to pay out of pocket for something like this then by all means do it, but until then I don't think it will work.[/quote]


Not unrealistic if someone put's up prize money out of their pocket. Not talking tens of thousands of dollars, maybe 1 or 2 thousand.[/quote]

I'll be amazed if you can find someone willing to put out $1000+ from their own pocket for an online league.
85
#85
1 Frags +
dope-wolfIf I had to execute a way to get new players into tf2 and grow the community I would create a league that is:

a) free
b) has a large cash prize
c) only new to comp tf2 players can play in, no esea people. (that way the teams don't get raped and give up and quit)
d) Advertise to pubbers and everyone who's new or wants to get into comp tf2 about this league and assure them the skill level is for new players only.

You have to give people who want to get into comp tf2 some kind of goal like winning something at a level they are capable of winning it at.

Assigning these new teams mentors through out the season to sit in on like a scrim a week wouldn't be a bad idea either. That makes it a competition to see who's the best mentor also lol, maybe the mentor can get a piece of the cash prize to.

a) Free is great but running leagues does come at a cost regardless. Websites, servers, the works. Many people pay for these out of pocket anyway but it's a lot to ask out of someone.

b) Your argument that people can pitch in one or two thousand is unrealistic, especially if there are 3-4 seasons per year like most other leagues do. If you run a free league with several seasons, you'd be looking at $3,000-$8,000 in donated money every year. Look at eXtv's i46 fundraiser - they worked hard to raise so much in a matter of months for a huge event, but even then they still came short. Do you think the same thing can be done several times every year for every season? LAN prizes are thanks to both player payments and major sponsorships. You'll need to do more than just ask people to donate. Why should they offer money for a free league's prize pot that they have almost no chance of winning back? Do they get something in return for donating certain amounts? It's great that people are willing to give money for this game, but not everyone can consistently do so to support every season.

c) Restricting people just because they're really good will drop the quality of your league. People complained all the time about UGC when they had their old Invite player limit rule. However, UGC works for new comp players because it's simpler to use, a way to start out without getting completely rolled, and free so that players can drop if needed without losing money. ESEA works for more experienced players because it enforces a higher-level environment, encourages players to be more serious about sticking with their teams, and includes money. It'd be great to have free leagues with all levels of play, but that would draw in a massive playerbase and, of course, still come at a cost for management and servers. People could donate for website/server/service costs then, but it'd be terribly expensive for a league that huge.

d) UGC already has this covered. Many pubs also run their own leagues where players can dip their toes into a friendly competitive environment. Many pubbers are interested in comp and many pubbers will form a team with their pub friends to start out. How would you advertize to the many pubs out there? How would you compete against UGC and pub-run leagues? For the cash prize? But where are you going to get thousands of dollars per year?

You mean well and there's no doubt you're passionate about growing the competitive scene, but I feel like your ideas are not from this earth. It's far more realistic to run free leagues with some donation drives for service support and giving out items like keys for prizes instead. Maybe some of this could happen if competitive TF2 got big enough, but that'd be asking way too much for almost every game out there.

[quote=dope-wolf]If I had to execute a way to get new players into tf2 and grow the community I would create a league that is:

a) free
b) has a large cash prize
c) only new to comp tf2 players can play in, no esea people. (that way the teams don't get raped and give up and quit)
d) Advertise to pubbers and everyone who's new or wants to get into comp tf2 about this league and assure them the skill level is for new players only.

You have to give people who want to get into comp tf2 some kind of goal like winning something at a level they are capable of winning it at.

Assigning these new teams mentors through out the season to sit in on like a scrim a week wouldn't be a bad idea either. That makes it a competition to see who's the best mentor also lol, maybe the mentor can get a piece of the cash prize to.[/quote]
a) Free is great but running leagues does come at a cost regardless. Websites, servers, the works. Many people pay for these out of pocket anyway but it's a lot to ask out of someone.

b) Your argument that people can pitch in one or two thousand is unrealistic, especially if there are 3-4 seasons per year like most other leagues do. If you run a free league with several seasons, you'd be looking at $3,000-$8,000 in donated money every year. Look at eXtv's i46 fundraiser - they worked hard to raise so much in a matter of months for a huge event, but even then they still came short. Do you think the same thing can be done several times every year for every season? LAN prizes are thanks to both player payments and major sponsorships. You'll need to do more than just ask people to donate. Why should they offer money for a free league's prize pot that they have almost no chance of winning back? Do they get something in return for donating certain amounts? It's great that people are willing to give money for this game, but not everyone can consistently do so to support every season.

c) Restricting people just because they're really good will drop the quality of your league. People complained all the time about UGC when they had their old Invite player limit rule. However, UGC works for new comp players because it's simpler to use, a way to start out without getting completely rolled, and free so that players can drop if needed without losing money. ESEA works for more experienced players because it enforces a higher-level environment, encourages players to be more serious about sticking with their teams, and includes money. It'd be great to have free leagues with all levels of play, but that would draw in a massive playerbase and, of course, still come at a cost for management and servers. People could donate for website/server/service costs then, but it'd be terribly expensive for a league that huge.

d) UGC already has this covered. Many pubs also run their own leagues where players can dip their toes into a friendly competitive environment. Many pubbers are interested in comp and many pubbers will form a team with their pub friends to start out. How would you advertize to the many pubs out there? How would you compete against UGC and pub-run leagues? For the cash prize? But where are you going to get thousands of dollars per year?

You mean well and there's no doubt you're passionate about growing the competitive scene, but I feel like your ideas are not from this earth. It's far more realistic to run free leagues with some donation drives for service support and giving out items like keys for prizes instead. Maybe some of this could happen if competitive TF2 got big enough, but that'd be asking way too much for almost every game out there.
86
#86
-5 Frags +
dellortdope-wolfdellortdope-wolfIf I had to execute a way to get new players into tf2 and grow the community I would create a league that is:

a) free
b) has a large cash prize
c) only new to comp tf2 players can play in, no esea people. (that way the teams don't get raped and give up and quit)
d) Advertise to pubbers and everyone who's new or wants to get into comp tf2 about this league and assure them the skill level is for new players only.

You have to give people who want to get into comp tf2 some kind of goal like winning something at a level they are capable of winning it at.

Assigning these new teams mentors through out the season to sit in on like a scrim a week wouldn't be a bad idea either. That makes it a competition to see who's the best mentor also lol, maybe the mentor can get a piece of the cash prize to.

I feel that those league standards are completely unrealistic, how would you even go about getting a large cash prize if there are no entry fees? If you or others are willing to pay out of pocket for something like this then by all means do it, but until then I don't think it will work.

Not unrealistic if someone put's up prize money out of their pocket. Not talking tens of thousands of dollars, maybe 1 or 2 thousand.

I'll be amazed if you can find someone willing to put out $1000+ from their own pocket for an online league.

are you blind and deaf? im pretty sure sal just put up 20 thousand dollars...

[quote=dellort][quote=dope-wolf][quote=dellort][quote=dope-wolf]If I had to execute a way to get new players into tf2 and grow the community I would create a league that is:

a) free
b) has a large cash prize
c) only new to comp tf2 players can play in, no esea people. (that way the teams don't get raped and give up and quit)
d) Advertise to pubbers and everyone who's new or wants to get into comp tf2 about this league and assure them the skill level is for new players only.

You have to give people who want to get into comp tf2 some kind of goal like winning something at a level they are capable of winning it at.

Assigning these new teams mentors through out the season to sit in on like a scrim a week wouldn't be a bad idea either. That makes it a competition to see who's the best mentor also lol, maybe the mentor can get a piece of the cash prize to.[/quote]

I feel that those league standards are completely unrealistic, how would you even go about getting a large cash prize if there are no entry fees? If you or others are willing to pay out of pocket for something like this then by all means do it, but until then I don't think it will work.[/quote]


Not unrealistic if someone put's up prize money out of their pocket. Not talking tens of thousands of dollars, maybe 1 or 2 thousand.[/quote]

I'll be amazed if you can find someone willing to put out $1000+ from their own pocket for an online league.[/quote]
are you blind and deaf? im pretty sure sal just put up 20 thousand dollars...
87
#87
0 Frags +
Saltysally1dellort
I'll be amazed if you can find someone willing to put out $1000+ from their own pocket for an online league.
are you blind and deaf? im pretty sure sal just put up 20 thousand dollars...

online league...

[quote=Saltysally1][quote=dellort]

I'll be amazed if you can find someone willing to put out $1000+ from their own pocket for an online league.[/quote]
are you blind and deaf? im pretty sure sal just put up 20 thousand dollars...[/quote]
online league...
88
#88
1 Frags +

Command Channel put up $1000 for an online tournament. v0v

Command Channel put up $1000 for an online tournament. v0v
89
#89
1 Frags +

This one is kind of a dreamy idea (and pretty unrealistic) but there could be this huge LAN tournament for different regions' champions to compete with each other. You could make one for charity where 90% of the earnings goes to an association one of the teams represents and the rest is spread out between the players.

Of course, this kind of stuff would need loads of sponsors and a big coverage from the internet (I'm sure the viewership will be huge considering we are talking about a world wide LAN), but then again, this is me just dreaming.

As for an actual idea, the Newbie Mixes is pretty good, and I need to think some ways to grow it over here in Argentina (everyone is just interested in trades and hats). Run an online league for a prize (a donated hat, key, etc) doesn't sound that bad.

This one is kind of a dreamy idea (and pretty unrealistic) but there could be this huge LAN tournament for different regions' champions to compete with each other. You could make one for charity where 90% of the earnings goes to an association one of the teams represents and the rest is spread out between the players.

Of course, this kind of stuff would need loads of sponsors and a big coverage from the internet (I'm sure the viewership will be huge considering we are talking about a world wide LAN), but then again, this is me just dreaming.

As for an actual idea, the Newbie Mixes is pretty good, and I need to think some ways to grow it over here in Argentina (everyone is just interested in trades and hats). Run an online league for a prize (a donated hat, key, etc) doesn't sound that bad.
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