Ok, here are some of the ideas that were thrown around last night on Lange's stream.

Everyone is always saying that no one takes initiative, and "talk is cheap", but I went on to say something along the lines that we all share the responsibilities of growing competitive TF2. We are competitive TF2, we will decide the growth and direction, we need to stop looking for valve support and simply market our competitive game to the public/average player. The spectator numbers and involvement in the scene will do the talking for us, I mean shit, Highlander has 400 teams, jeebus. Think of the growth if they decide to transition to 6's! If we implement this correctly, we can solve all the divisional problems (open/im/main/premier/invite), get more divisions in esea, bigger lans, more exposure, bam the e-sports dream everyone wants will be there (hopefully).

The Idea:

Designate one day, make it an official TF2 holiday, I don't care, and every person in the community join a public server, friend a public player and show them the 6v6 competitive format. We will get them in a lobby, or direct them to Newbie Mix, either way, we just get players there. Show them Teamfortress.tv and BAM, you've theoretically doubled the scene if everyone takes part in it. (lol i realize its not as simple as it sounds)

Reddit:

We need to take advantage of all the reddit subscribers on r/tf2. I just checked, there are over 87k subscribers in that subreddit. I don't care how much everyone hates reddit, that is a HUGE untapped market that has a passion for TF2. Expose them to Comp tf2. Everyone can take part in this movement, everyone needs to create reddit accounts and upvote EVERYTHING competitive to the TOP. Just like plus frags, use our numbers and stimulate comp tf2. I've been speaking with Enigma, and the idea is to bring them to this site, and hopefully when we start moving on these initiatives, he will have a net ready to catch all those new players, with articles of HOW TO PLAY, WHAT ARE MY ROLES, HOW TO GET INVOLVED, player streams and all that good stuff. This can be the central hub for competitive TF2, so lets make it happen. We need help though, everyone can be involved, please don't disregard this message if you have a passion for TF2! I will be trying my best to get these ideas in motion, we will need all the help we can get, and I've already spoken with Sal and a few vanillatv members. This can happen and we need a communal effort for these plans to go off.

These are very rough ideas, feel free to share your ideas/critisize mine and lets try to get something working. If someone can type up a draft after all this, we can get it cross posted on both Vanilla and TF.tv. Let's do it.

As I told Tyrone, there are some talks for major non-ESEA 6s tournaments coming up. Can't give more details than that at the moment, but that alone has me pretty amped.

The TF2 holiday idea is a great one. Anyone who can stream such a thing should do so. Ty, if you come up with a date, we'll help promote it and get as many people on board as possible. There will probably be enough demand that even just 1 invite player or streamer per PUG won't be enough.

The one thing I think will also help is setting a date. I really want most of these ideas to come to play before the whole halloween thing valve does. We always get extra TF2 numbers during that season, so I hope everyone can get there ducks in a row, with the newbie articles and tutorial videos or w/e. And if you want to write articles, create videos, this is your chance now. Lets try to get everything ready for viral marketing by Oct 20th. Let's get the ball rollin! COOL!? SAY YES!

Oct 20 might be too far away. I don't think it'd be hard to get this kind of holiday set up for the weekend of the 22nd or 29th of September. Just grab a bunch of players, make sure you have some lobby servers ready to go with rcon, make sure people are set to stream, and have a field day. Whatever happens, it could even be a monthly (or otherwise regular) thing with continual improvement.

Definitely agree, the reason why I chose that rough date is because I was thinking more in terms of Tf.tv, and having the content ready and available for the new players to see. If we can move on it sooner than that I would love too, but I think we should also consider during the Halloween festivities as dormant players will be active to get those sweet new items.

Not sure how often you stroll around the tf2 subreddits, but almost daily (sometimes multiple times a day) there are posts asking about how to get into comp tf2 or what to do gamewise besides just pubbing. Usually they will just get a link to a doc about getting into comp tf2... or be told about lobbys etc. I would bet most of those people might look into it a bit further, but end up going back to the pubs.

Reddit could be a goldmine... but people dont want to read guides, and joining a lobby for the first time by yourself is scary. Get those newbie mixes going again... tell those people who ask to come and bring a friend. If those are held frequently (and remain consistent) that is an easy way to suck the redditors in. Take those curious kids by the hand and walk them in the door... the next time they will walk in themselves. As much as streaming helps introduce people to the game, if this is ever going to work it has to get a bit more personal.

I've kind set a tentative date of September 22nd next saturday at 8 pm est for the newbie mix. Is that time okay for everyone? Lets start making a list of people who are available to help on that date for any amount of time.

people need to stop hating each other. when you get airshot or headshot say "hey gamer nice shot" dont be upset and call them a nigger faggot. another thing, can we stop using the words autism, aids, nigger, cancer, retard, ect. there are actually people out there who deal with that stuff and you never know if the person you are saying those words knows someone with those conditions. one more thing, dont forget this is a video game and a hobby, HAVE FUN. dont take it too serious.

If you have any events or important posts up (mixes schedules, reddit posts that you want upvotes for, etc), message me and I can put it on TFTV's Twitter to help get word out there. It's easy enough to use all the platforms out there; we just need to use them consistently.

I'm also thinking of doing weekly match schedule articles for this site so people can more easily see when match dates are coming. ESEA's site isn't the most user-friendly to find match schedules and dates change all the time, but I can put in the time to keep up with it.

I feel like the content will play a huge role in retaining the new players. So they can figure it out for themselves, we'll be there to help them along the way, but for players to pass around a link would be alot easier. Friending and making it an enjoyable lobby experience would be the only real task as a supporter of the movement. At this point, even having them download mumble might be to much to ask for now, or something they would consider in the immediate future. For this idea, I just want to show the public community that the competitive format is incredibly fun, and than they can decide for themselves how they want to involve themselves with the scene. I just feel the more the content, the easier transition/interest. This site has a lot to offer, visibility for streamers, if they can get lost in the site, we've done our job.

Forget r/tf2 if you're looking at Reddit, there are 5,500 people in the r/truetf2 subreddit that are actually interested in comp and not posting pictures of dead pyros and bad unusual unboxes.

Go make yourself known over there, you'll get a higher attendance turnout.

On ETF2L's front page there's a link to a guide for newcomers to the league (http://etf2l.org/new/). Having a link like that to a newcomer's guide to 6v6 on this site might be helpful.

I disagree moose, the more the merrier. r/truetf2 players will find there way to comp, they're already questioning there own game and looking for higher knowledge in terms of tf2. They are on the right path. R/tf2 on the other hand, the players go in because they enjoy playin tf2, they may not even have formed there own opinions about pub/comp/highlander/6v6. Although right now we may see a ton of hats / pyros dominated posts or whatever, we can help change that landscape and turn it into a more competitive mind set if we can use our voting power and post relevant competitive content.

I have a Youtube channel where I make TF2 videos. I have been slowly introducing competitive TF2 to my viewers for a while now. I make videos about MGE, eXtv events/tournaments, and other comp videos on occasion. I have posted my POV videos in the form of a "Youtube Show" and I know many people are interested in the competitive scene. It's just a matter of whether we help them make the transition or not.

I would promote my channel more but I don't like the idea of blatantly changing your name to "twitch.tv/plsfollowmystream";

I agree we need to be more mature and stop using vulgar and derogatory words. This doesn't happen when someone gets an amazing kill though.

I can probably help. What exactly is the newbie mix?

I plan on posting my POVs (with comms) with my team in the UGC league weekly. Are you saying you'll help me promote it on Reddit? My competitive videos never get as many upvotes on Reddit as a random pub clip or something else would.

I thought we're trying to convert people to comp, not talk to our small, little, already-established community.

ydyufyffy, yes thats the exact type of content we need. I think, making sure new players can find it on the home page/visibility will be extremely crucial.

etf2l's community highlander was epic.

Hell it's the reason I'm in comp tf2 now. Though I would have to say, the community I was a part of was the reason we kept going together. I can't imagine staying in tf2 comp without having community members/friends join and stay in as well.

Make tf.tv home base of operations of everything comp tf2?
SC and CS and other games all have that all-in-one-must-fav page right? Team liquid?

That's something any guide should mention. It's all about the people you play with.

As far as Newbie Mix, my outsider's opinion is that it needs more admins and a process in place to ensure regular content. It can't be dependent on a small cadre of players who have other commitments - that opens it up to going inactive.

Flex my internet penis. Bring people to TF2.

People just love the fat cock

Only if it's John's

I've been thinking about ways to further tf2, and I've come to a conclusion.

The majority of the good content being created that revolves around the top level of tf2 comes in the form of written word. We have a lot of great articles written about invite, discussing the teams and their lan race. However, that stuff is boring, and will just appeal to people who already have a vested interest in high-level comp tf2. In light of that, I have some ideas about more interesting media content that could interest people in specifically the top echelons of tf2. I also think a lot of this should be done under the banner of teamfortress.tv, for the sake of unity.

1.) bring back an NA podcast! rechristen the "MGE podcast" the "teamfortress.tv podcast", and have such hosts as djc, Lange, cbear, Sigma, bloodsire, seanbud, basically any colorful personality, and bring back the guest teams, invite gossip, all that jazz. you could stream it live on lange or seanbud's stream, then put the vods up on here.

2.) if you've ever looked at esea's cs content, one thing you'll notice is how connected it is to http://www.youtube.com/user/goesea , the eseanews youtube channel. they have lan footage, top 10 plays/fails of the week, interviews, humorous content, all that jazz. I propose that something similar happens, but either as a teamfortress.tv youtube channel or a partnership with the commft/extv/whatever channel. I think a good starting point would be top 10 esea-i plays of the week. I'd love to work on those myself, but I also understand if, in the best interests of the community, someone like Sal should commentate.

3.) bring back the tutorials, demo review videos, etc., to the same extent that mygamingedge did. I can't stress enough how helpful it is that these things are in video form. videos will attract more people, plain and simple.

4.) work with the top public/highlander streamers more. get stabby stabby or someone to plug tf.tv, or make a 6s and a highlander stream section with equal promotion of the latter.

5.) I used to see a lot of tf2 frag videos on larger sites (big frag movie youtube channels and stuff like pldx), and they would get many more views that way. try to work on those partnerships.

POST-SCRIPT: these are unrelated to my ideas up there, but here's some more stuff:

1.) I suggest we focus on furthering our relationship with UGC, both in terms of convincing their highlander teams to also try 6v6 and in further solidifying the link between ugc 6s and esea 6s.

2.) I think more can be done to promote teamfortress.tv itself. People should literally go to pubs with [teamfortress.tv] in their name, or have a bind asking people to check it out.

3.) teamfortress.tv servers perhaps? maybe we could get a 16-man, nospread, nocrit, comp map rotation pub (like pro like chro!!!), or perhaps partner with jump iT and sponsor the jump/MGE servers, to increase the number of users, which will eventually help LG (and perhaps Mix^ can get in on that cash cow too)

4.) In that vein, why not have teamfortress.tv sponsor mix^? you can put team bios, mentoring content, a donation for lan, etc. on here

5.) revive the mentoring program, and better it. get more people to volunteer, make an application form, maybe even mentor evaluation forms too, and possibly try to get mentors or mentees to stream their mentoring sessions.

6.) Mr. pingu, tear down that natf2.com

7.) similar to what tyrone was saying about a "tf2 holiday"- make a big teamfortress.tv steam group, and make a big list of like 20 or 30 public servers eligible, from a variety of communities. announce every time a big pub event is going down, and get people to disperse to all those pubs and play with some sort of teamfortress.tv tag, advertising it and stuff.

(cont'd below)

8.) DREAM_HACK. I say that the teamfortress.tv guys try to find a team to get together with both the extv and the vanillatv guys, and maybe even more people (tfworld.ru, greavertv, whoever), and draft ONE solid UNIFIED manifesto for the dreamhack guys, and the valve guys, to work out arrangements. include the best examples of our game's growth (stream counts, esp at esea and i46, some really popular fragvids, the highlander scene, etc.), and make our case. I say we could also wait for the i46 documentary to drop, and include that as an example for our scene.

9.) this just came to me, but absorb as many other important channels as projects as possible. newbie mixes are a good start, that would be relatively simple. #tf2mix, #tf2.pug, #tf2.pug.na, #tf2scrim, tf2demos, and atf2.org would be another solid step forward. and, here's the whopper: tf2lobby. for all the unregulated behemoth tf2lobby has become, it still has a grand total of three (3) creators. in fact, one of them is a well-known member of the competitive community, and all of them can be reached. it really wouldn't be hard to advertise tf.tv on the main page of the site, or sponsor all the valve servers as tf.tv servers. even if like 10% of the lobby population stopped playing lobbies because of this advertising, you'd still have literally thousands of people to work with

8) There is a team forming stuff for dreamhack. The major difficulty is finding the person to draft that proposal and get on a Dreamhack guy's calendar to spearhead it. That person can't be me, I don't have the time. Try talking to Skyride or Comedian, they are involved.

Podcast content just requires people to take initiative. Shade is already doing so. My advice for him is to shorten it considerably, since the shorter the cast, the wider the audience it's possible to attract.

Mustard, if you want to make a top 10 ESEA-IM or whatever video of the month, do it. If you want voiceover assistance, we can provide that. The only reason eXtv isn't doing more of those is that our clip sorters and video editors are already working overtime.

The documentary will be done when it's done - which is probably a fair bit of time from now. Do not wait on the documentary to make your case to someone, it may cause too much delay.

10.) a big, multi-platform tournament, for both 6s and hl. Otakuscott has the right idea- the problem is, his banlist has antagonized ugc, and the notoriously finicky admins don't like it. I say, try to cross promote between tf.tv, ugc, extv, vanillatv, etf2l, and maybe even esea. maybe a donation drive, or unusual hat/item raffles, to get decent prizes.

I feel like you slightly misunderstood me. I recognize that, for the amount of labor and resources extv has, it's already vastly overworked. However, as long as extv signed off on an idea and promoted it from time to time, someone else could organize it, and any viewer of extv who hasn't yet expanded to really follow comp tf2 (and there are a lot of those guys) will check out the other content. cross-promotion is what's needed, not an increased burden of work on extv.

You all know that I'm willing to do whatever I can to help you guys succeed.

I have contacts for potential sponsors, etc. What it comes down to right now is image. I am not willing to put my neck on the line when you have people (no names, but most players know who they are) running around on mumble while people are streaming dropping nbombs, etc. I can't have that shit.

There needs to be more frequent, accessible events. I'm thinking like once a month, 8 invite players pick 5 random dudes from TF2 and we have a shitty little 8 team double elim tournament and stream it. The invite players coach the "shitties" into shape and make them fall in love with the game like we have. There doesn't have to be a prize. (we could do like $120 prize pool or something if people really insist.)

We keep the numbers growing. The more promotion you guys recieve, the more people will continue to watch TF2.

I need to learn to cast. This is something I've said for a very long time. I have a gigantic youtube audience and an avid twitter following that will probably watch whatever I do. I'm a huge vagina and I'm terrified at the thought of casting and looking like an idiot. I need to guest cast with some people a few times to see where it goes. I have the knowledge of the game, but I truthfully feel like my casting ability hovers somewhere between shit ass dick and and horrible.

Weekly podcast. Not always starring a drunk DJC. Talk about the scene. Talk about the drama in a friendly way. Creating emotional attachments to teams/players is one of the most important things we can do. This is why people love sports. This is why LoL succeeds where TF2 and most other esports do not. The community knows the drama. The community knows the teams. They know each individual player. (almost to a personal level) We need this.

I feel like casting and promotion is probably my best spot, as I'm not very uhhhh... good at the game. I can hang, but I'm nowhere near the level of most of you guys.

I like men.

We need more places to submit articles.

(Huge wall of text, gonna have to split the post in 2)

If you want some insight from the other side of the border...

I'm a pub player, but I watch tons of competitive games. (Even busted my monthly download limit watching I46).

In my opinion there's 2 problems about pub players trying to get into the competitive scene.

1) They want the best of both world, without really doing much effort. Pubs are easy, you do whatever you want and nobody can stop you. Once they want to go higher, what they're really looking to is to stop having idiots for teammates, face greater challenges, mostly. What they're NOT looking for is... Buying a mic ( if they don't already have one ), and talk to other players.
Be online at specific hours and not just when they feel like it. Keep on 'doing what they want', just in a better environnment.

That might not be this for 'all' pub players looking to jump in, but I feel like tons of players are like this.

2) The steps. Or, should I say, the lack of steps.
I assume most people reading and posting on these forums are competitive players, even some invite players. The cream of the crop. You guys probably think the average players in TF2 lobby is mediocre.

But from a pub player point of view, they're insanely good.

I tried my hand an highlander TF2 lobby some time ago, and (no big surprise) I was the worst player on my team. I wanted to play the least important class, so I don't screw over my team too much, I played pyro (not sure if it was the best choice, but well).

I have a feeling the teams might have been somewhat stacked ( on purpose, or just bad luck ) because our team got rolled pretty bad, but still, I felt like I wasn't at my place, at all.
After the 2nd round, I was just waiting for the game to end ( still trying my best, but I knew I was not really helping my team much - which was confirmed by many people on the mic who kept calling me out ).