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Coach to i58 maybe unfair?
31
#31
1 Frags +

TBH I think coaching was unfari right here as only 1 team had it ready. If the tf2 comp organizers decide to allow coaches big change is needed for all corners so it is all fair again.
But frankly lets not have coaches.

TBH I think coaching was unfari right here as only 1 team had it ready. If the tf2 comp organizers decide to allow coaches big change is needed for all corners so it is all fair again.
But frankly lets not have coaches.
32
#32
2 Frags +
Menachemrmthttps://imgur.com/gallery/LYdzr
hwat? Froyo lost to Full Tilt tho??

Froyo got knocked into the lower bracket by crowns to a 1 point difference. I would say coaching had a part in this like it did the grand finals.
http://www.teamfortress.tv/35833/i58-uf-froyotech-vs-crowns-esports-club/?game=3

[quote=Menachem][quote=rmt]https://imgur.com/gallery/LYdzr[/quote]

hwat? Froyo lost to Full Tilt tho??[/quote]
Froyo got knocked into the lower bracket by crowns to a 1 point difference. I would say coaching had a part in this like it did the grand finals.
http://www.teamfortress.tv/35833/i58-uf-froyotech-vs-crowns-esports-club/?game=3
33
#33
11 Frags +

I've seen some people say that "coaches should be allowed if other teams say it's okay." This is flat out awful, and was the cause of MANY issues in other scenes such as dota2/cs where admins would put the onus of a decision on one of the teams. This creates a shitty situation where one team doesn't want to be 'the bad guy' and will often allow things WAY outside the rules so as to not come across as dicks. It's the league's job to make clear rules, and an admin's job to enforce them. The teams should (almost) never be in control of making decisions like that.

I've seen some people say that "coaches should be allowed if other teams say it's okay." This is flat out awful, and was the cause of MANY issues in other scenes such as dota2/cs where admins would put the onus of a decision on one of the teams. This creates a shitty situation where one team doesn't want to be 'the bad guy' and will often allow things WAY outside the rules so as to not come across as dicks. It's the league's job to make clear rules, and an admin's job to enforce them. The teams should (almost) never be in control of making decisions like that.
34
#34
1 Frags +

i see some good points being made, i guess the +1 doesn't really belong.
though i do hope people don't feel like crowns didn't deserve their first place

i see some good points being made, i guess the +1 doesn't really belong.
though i do hope people don't feel like crowns didn't deserve their first place
35
#35
3 Frags +
Menachemrmthttps://imgur.com/gallery/LYdzr
hwat? Froyo lost to Full Tilt tho??

Froyo also lost to Crowns in a golden cap. I hold Dashner in the highest regards, but bias against one team in particular is unprofessional.

Edit: dammit fluf

[quote=Menachem][quote=rmt]https://imgur.com/gallery/LYdzr[/quote]

hwat? Froyo lost to Full Tilt tho??[/quote]
Froyo also lost to Crowns in a golden cap. I hold Dashner in the highest regards, but bias against one team in particular is unprofessional.

Edit: dammit fluf
36
#36
22 Frags +

I'm not trying to be a bitch, but why exactly does dashner hate froyo so much?

I'm not trying to be a bitch, but why exactly does dashner hate froyo so much?
37
#37
2 Frags +

Root for the underdogs yo its nothing personal

Root for the underdogs yo its nothing personal
38
#38
-6 Frags +
trucksCSGO just banned all coaches at majors for exactly this reason.

and exactly every single player and analyst thinks its a dumb rule

[quote=trucks]CSGO just banned all coaches at majors for exactly this reason.[/quote]
and exactly every single player and analyst thinks its a dumb rule
39
#39
0 Frags +
cage-trucksCSGO just banned all coaches at majors for exactly this reason.and exactly every single player and analyst thinks its a dumb rule

in csgo, you mainly control the economy, think of strats, and try to keep moral up.
since tf2 doesn't have a radar, you need to call everything. You need to track ubers, call players, call pushes all while your trying to heal/dm people. Having a coach means you can just do your classes role and listen to your coach.

[quote=cage-][quote=trucks]CSGO just banned all coaches at majors for exactly this reason.[/quote]
and exactly every single player and analyst thinks its a dumb rule[/quote]
in csgo, you mainly control the economy, think of strats, and try to keep moral up.
since tf2 doesn't have a radar, you need to call everything. You need to track ubers, call players, call pushes all while your trying to heal/dm people. Having a coach means you can just do your classes role and listen to your coach.
40
#40
0 Frags +

i dont think coaches are a good idea (especially in their current form) but how come full tilt didn't have a coach?

i dont think coaches are a good idea (especially in their current form) but how come full tilt didn't have a coach?
41
#41
19 Frags +

Ipz coached them online before the event. They didn't want someone in the comms, you have to build synergy and trust their calls.

Ipz coached them online before the event. They didn't want someone in the comms, you have to build synergy and trust their calls.
42
#42
18 Frags +

Regardless of whether it should or shouldn't be allowed - I would be extremely embarrassed as a player if I had to have someone outside of the game tell me things like when to push and what our uber % was.

Regardless of whether it should or shouldn't be allowed - I would be extremely embarrassed as a player if I had to have someone outside of the game tell me things like when to push and what our uber % was.
43
#43
-19 Frags +

It's easier to maincall from a players perspective than from spec because you can't make a call around what you are doing or about to do

It's easier to maincall from a players perspective than from spec because you can't make a call around what you are doing or about to do
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#44
7 Frags +
HafficoolIt's easier to maincall from a players perspective than from spec because you can't make a call around what you are doing or about to do

but a seventh player is doing that job, so how does that make it any more fair?

[quote=Hafficool]It's easier to maincall from a players perspective than from spec because you can't make a call around what you are doing or about to do[/quote]
but a seventh player is doing that job, so how does that make it any more fair?
45
#45
5 Frags +
jozefI'm not trying to be a bitch, but why exactly does dashner hate froyo so much?

I don't think it's froyo specifically. It's probably just b4nny he dislikes. He probably just wanted b4nny to lose after all the trash talk he threw at the Europeans (which in all fairness goes both ways). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[quote=jozef]I'm not trying to be a bitch, but why exactly does dashner hate froyo so much?[/quote]

I don't think it's froyo specifically. It's probably just b4nny he dislikes. He probably just wanted b4nny to lose after all the trash talk he threw at the Europeans (which in all fairness goes both ways). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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#46
0 Frags +
HafficoolIt's easier to maincall from a players perspective than from spec because you can't make a call around what you are doing or about to do

There is zero possible way having an amazing, experienced player that knows how you play and knows how the other teams play is fair. Imagine if b4nny was coaching a a high IM team. They would crush everyone. It's completely unfair and FT should have won

[quote=Hafficool]It's easier to maincall from a players perspective than from spec because you can't make a call around what you are doing or about to do[/quote]

There is zero possible way having an amazing, experienced player that knows how you play and knows how the other teams play is fair. Imagine if b4nny was coaching a a high IM team. They would crush everyone. It's completely unfair and FT should have won
47
#47
18 Frags +
BBiA_duchessHafficoolIt's easier to maincall from a players perspective than from spec because you can't make a call around what you are doing or about to do
There is zero possible way having an amazing, experienced player that knows how you play and knows how the other teams play is fair. Imagine if b4nny was coaching a a high IM team. They would crush everyone. It's completely unfair and FT should have won

now i want to see b4nny coach a low open team from open to invite just to see if it's possible

[quote=BBiA_duchess][quote=Hafficool]It's easier to maincall from a players perspective than from spec because you can't make a call around what you are doing or about to do[/quote]

There is zero possible way having an amazing, experienced player that knows how you play and knows how the other teams play is fair. Imagine if b4nny was coaching a a high IM team. They would crush everyone. It's completely unfair and FT should have won[/quote]

now i want to see b4nny coach a low open team from open to invite just to see if it's possible
48
#48
13 Frags +
rocketslayBBiA_duchessHafficoolIt's easier to maincall from a players perspective than from spec because you can't make a call around what you are doing or about to do
There is zero possible way having an amazing, experienced player that knows how you play and knows how the other teams play is fair. Imagine if b4nny was coaching a a high IM team. They would crush everyone. It's completely unfair and FT should have won

now i want to see b4nny coach a low open team from open to invite just to see if it's possible

I mean muma freestate paddie were low invite. Now they are two time invite champions

[quote=rocketslay][quote=BBiA_duchess][quote=Hafficool]It's easier to maincall from a players perspective than from spec because you can't make a call around what you are doing or about to do[/quote]

There is zero possible way having an amazing, experienced player that knows how you play and knows how the other teams play is fair. Imagine if b4nny was coaching a a high IM team. They would crush everyone. It's completely unfair and FT should have won[/quote]

now i want to see b4nny coach a low open team from open to invite just to see if it's possible[/quote]

I mean muma freestate paddie were low invite. Now they are two time invite champions
49
#49
23 Frags +

Coaching in half time & scrims, sure, why not. Main calling? Yea fucking right.

Coaching in half time & scrims, sure, why not. Main calling? Yea fucking right.
50
#50
1 Frags +

Well bringing a seventg man for Crowns was a breeze cause they had a sponsor but for the rest of the teams especially Froyo thats a lot of money to find.

Well bringing a seventg man for Crowns was a breeze cause they had a sponsor but for the rest of the teams especially Froyo thats a lot of money to find.
51
#51
16 Frags +

Agreed, it does create an unfair advantage for teams that can afford to fly a 7th player to the event.

Agreed, it does create an unfair advantage for teams that can afford to fly a 7th player to the event.
52
#52
5 Frags +

Not even a question. Unless the coach is literally a clown there is no way he could not present a huge advantage. It's much easier to use your brain in game when you aren't actually playing.

Not even a question. Unless the coach is literally a clown there is no way he could not present a huge advantage. It's much easier to use your brain in game when you aren't actually playing.
53
#53
0 Frags +

Exactly i mean if you are focusing only on strategy, uber tracking, you do it exxeptionally well because you dont have to focus on dm skill and staying alive and making plays.

Exactly i mean if you are focusing only on strategy, uber tracking, you do it exxeptionally well because you dont have to focus on dm skill and staying alive and making plays.
54
#54
1 Frags +

I mean i think i58 could have ended differently without coaches.

I mean i think i58 could have ended differently without coaches.
55
#55
-3 Frags +

you guys are overestimating how much a coach can help a team. froyo, for example, would not improve with a coach. its far more beneficial to have players who can take charge rather than someone who isnt in the game. kaidus almost never spoke during a fight as he couldnt get a word in. it was only during downtime (during stalemates, rollouts, freeze time etc.) that he spoke up and told us what to do.

camperya i agree honestly you could get 6 dm lords and a coach who keeps track of ubers, players, and calls pushes and you've got yourself a good team

thats definitely not true. there's only so much a coach can see and its not possible to micromanage a bunch of idiots

you guys are overestimating how much a coach can help a team. froyo, for example, would not improve with a coach. its far more beneficial to have players who can take charge rather than someone who isnt in the game. kaidus almost never spoke during a fight as he couldnt get a word in. it was only during downtime (during stalemates, rollouts, freeze time etc.) that he spoke up and told us what to do.

[quote=camper]ya i agree honestly you could get 6 dm lords and a coach who keeps track of ubers, players, and calls pushes and you've got yourself a good team[/quote]

thats definitely not true. there's only so much a coach can see and its not possible to micromanage a bunch of idiots
56
#56
-1 Frags +
Starkieyou guys are overestimating how much a coach can help a team. froyo, for example, would not improve with a coach. its far more beneficial to have players who can take charge rather than someone who isnt in the game. kaidus almost never spoke during a fight as he couldnt get a word in. it was only during downtime (during stalemates, rollouts, freeze time etc.) that he spoke up and told us what to do.
camperya i agree honestly you could get 6 dm lords and a coach who keeps track of ubers, players, and calls pushes and you've got yourself a good team
thats definitely not true. there's only so much a coach can see and its not possible to micromanage a bunch of idiots

Still an advantage that not everyone has access to

[quote=Starkie]you guys are overestimating how much a coach can help a team. froyo, for example, would not improve with a coach. its far more beneficial to have players who can take charge rather than someone who isnt in the game. kaidus almost never spoke during a fight as he couldnt get a word in. it was only during downtime (during stalemates, rollouts, freeze time etc.) that he spoke up and told us what to do.

[quote=camper]ya i agree honestly you could get 6 dm lords and a coach who keeps track of ubers, players, and calls pushes and you've got yourself a good team[/quote]

thats definitely not true. there's only so much a coach can see and its not possible to micromanage a bunch of idiots[/quote]
Still an advantage that not everyone has access to
57
#57
-4 Frags +
Starkiekaidus almost never spoke during a fight as he couldnt get a word in. it was only during downtime (during stalemates, rollouts, freeze time etc.) that he spoke up and told us what to do.

i honestly question the sincerity of this comment
didn't kaidus basically say he was calling everything in an interview after the ubf?

https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f914.png

Starkiehats definitely not true. there's only so much a coach can see and its not possible to micromanage a bunch of idiots

how exactly? i mean a coach can just watch everyone on the team and tell them exactly what to do, without the need to focus on anything else, it's very easy and gives the team more room to concentrate on dm'ing other than comming

[quote=Starkie]kaidus almost never spoke during a fight as he couldnt get a word in. it was only during downtime (during stalemates, rollouts, freeze time etc.) that he spoke up and told us what to do.[/quote]
i honestly question the sincerity of this comment
didn't kaidus basically say he was calling everything in an interview after the ubf?
[img]https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f914.png[/img]
[quote=Starkie]hats definitely not true. there's only so much a coach can see and its not possible to micromanage a bunch of idiots[/quote]
how exactly? i mean a coach can just watch everyone on the team and tell them exactly what to do, without the need to focus on anything else, it's very easy and gives the team more room to concentrate on dm'ing other than comming
58
#58
21 Frags +

Have you ever tried to control a pug team even when you're playing? How on earth could you control six dm donkeys from spec?! While I think it has its pros and cons and I'm personally not that keen on igl coaches in tf2, some of these posts are madness! Kaidus calling from demo was better than kaidus calling from spec, and as stark said a team who has that igl style player like banny on Froyotech would get virtually 0 from an igl coach.

Have you ever tried to control a pug team even when you're playing? How on earth could you control six dm donkeys from spec?! While I think it has its pros and cons and I'm personally not that keen on igl coaches in tf2, some of these posts are madness! Kaidus calling from demo was better than kaidus calling from spec, and as stark said a team who has that igl style player like banny on Froyotech would get virtually 0 from an igl coach.
59
#59
11 Frags +
SideshowHow on earth could you control six dm donkeys from spec?!

Memories of Byte trying to control Forsak3n, Klar and Droso come flooding back

[quote=Sideshow]How on earth could you control six dm donkeys from spec?![/quote]
Memories of Byte trying to control Forsak3n, Klar and Droso come flooding back
60
#60
35 Frags +

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