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Competitive TF2 Today
posted in The Dumpster
1
#1
-1 Frags +

Hello TFTV. You're probably going to tl;dr this since no one really knows who I even am, but if you still have any bit of hope left for competitive team fortress 2, I'd urge you to at least skim this huge post. I wrote this way into the night so it might be a bit of a jumbled mess with lots of swearing so I apologize if I trigger anyone.

I wanted to share a few words with you guys since I guess this is the main hub for tf2 right now. I am going to rant right now as someone who was once in love with this game, but found himself without passion for it after a while. I'm not speaking as a pro. I was an awful pub player who at most joined a shitty tf2lobby here and there. Saying that may burn away any credibility from my post may have had, but I really don't care right now since I'm speaking as someone who was once a fan of the scene and it's esteemed players. In the first place, if you ignore my opinion just because I'm just a viewer or a fan, then I guess you're all comfortable with playing an embarrassingly dead esport with max 300 twitch viewers for big lans.

I'd just like to say that I think team fortress 2 has an insane amount of untapped potential as a spectator sport that pros and tournament admins alike refuse to acknowledge. Part of the reason for this is that you're all slowly indoctrinated by better players as you move up in the scene where certain aspects of the game are concerned. I'm referring to, of course, the weapon bans in tournaments such as ESEA, as well as in general the amount of restrictions placed on the way people play comp tf2. This probably seems irrelevant to you as someone people who have played this game for however many years, but I mean come on, look at this shit. http://play.esea.net/index.php?s=content&d=league_rules_tf2

You've unanimously agreed to ban almost the entire item pool list because you're all too incompetent to find ways to deal with these weapons in play. Some of this shit isn't even good compared to stock weapons, and I really can't find a valid reason for them to be banned at all. The scene has been stagnant for years now, and that is probably due to the fact that the competitive tf2 community has decided that they are incapable of adapting to these weapons in their scrims/officials.

How is that not the sad? Do you even like this game, or do you all just obligated to play it at this point since you've already wasted this much of your lives on it? If you're unwilling to put even the tiniestt amount of effort in researching and testing mechanics in the game that YOU are supposed to be good at, then your scene is basically a fucking joke. There is no room for argument here.

From a spectator's perspective it's disgusting, and probably one of the major reasons the scene has been this dead despite tf2 being a relatively big game on steam. When people hear about the pro scene the first thing they think is that it's handled ridiculously. I mean, the fun in watching a sport like basketball or football (not that handegg shit americucks play because that isn't a sport) is that you can go to the court or the field, play a pickup game with friends and then go watch the professionals play later. There is this level of connection between fans of the game when you're able to do this kind of thing. But right now, comp TF2 has long since killed this kind of interactivity by alienating the casual audience with things like their their weapon bans list because "they're too op they're stupid waaa t_t". So really, how can you blame people who refuse to care about this games pro scene when you decide to basically boycott the entire weapons list because it's hard for you to deal with?

"But we have to ban them, the weapons are unbalanced!" "They're antifun!" Have you bozos actually tried thinking of ways to counter play the weapons strengths? Have you tried to implement the niche weapons into interesting strategies? I mean seriously, how exciting would competitive tf2 be if pros would create innovative and silly pocket strats with unpopular loadouts and class combos? Imagine how much more fun it would be to watch with a 6v6 final flashy and fun weapons like the sandman? The scene would definitely grow if players and organizers loosened up way more on the item bans. Even from your point of view, you're basically forcing yourselves day in and day out to play the same game like a bunch of poorfag children who only own snakes and ladders.

I mean, I won't deny the fact that some weapons are broken as all hell. Don't get me wrong, I'm not completely blind to how fucked this game is right now. But you're forgetting that you're a community of people playing this game, TF2, at the highest level in the world right now. Let that sink in. You're the best at this game. Why shouldn't your words mean anything? Why do you all think that you can't change anything? If you really care about this game, then shouldn't you get together and start trying to communicate with valve right now? As impossible as that sounds to get a hold of them, if you actually feel anything for this game then shouldn't it be possible? I mean, who the fuck cares if they're balancing for pubs? They'd been doing that since day 1 and they somehow made a game with an deceptively high skill ceiling (pyro xd) relatively respectable skill ceiling. There's no way it isn't worth trying to negotiate with them. You've put in more honest hours of work and more effort into this game than any of the other fuckheads who idle in trade servers and call themselves tf2 players. If anything, they should be listening to you guys over anyone else who plays this shitty game.

For those thinking it's just a pipe dream, have you even seen what dota 2 is like right now? Valve plucks ui ideas from le reddit like no tomorrow and has been steadily improving the game to be something great. Even Icefrog, the main developer in charge of balance, discusses the state of the game with professional players before he creates any of his balance changes. I don't think such a situation is impossible for tf2 right now, since valve is probably aware that they should be catering to not only a casual audience, but also a competitive audience as well. If you guys can at least TRY to get in touch with Valve, then who knows? Maybe TF2 will become the game of your dreams. But if you just sit here and bitch about everything, while banning all the weapons and pretending everything is fine, then your game is done. I am sorry.

This is just my interpretation of the situation right now. The game is stagnating.

I get that right now, you all just want to improve your dm and be the best, but from a spectators point of view, it just isn't that interesting. Strategy and adaptability are also traits you should be honing as people who play this game professionally. To switch your brain off at a lan and just play it the same as always is embarrassing if you want the scene taken seriously. The same game every time gets boring for spectators. DM is important but this is a team game with a large amount of depth so good strategy is definitely capable of beating a group of individually skilled players. And it's much more fun to watch too.

And you're all probably slowly getting tired of playing this unchanging game day in and day out anyway. If you don't care enough to try taking steps towards taking back this game, then you may as well stay here and jerk each other off. Go ahead and kill comp tf2 if you're all too scared of change. Because the way things are now the game is fucked and you all know it deep down inside.

(Also, if take nothing else from my ramblings, then at least listen to me when I say that this game isn't about goddamn dming, so stop jerking off over who you beat in mge for fucks sake FUCK YOU.)

Hello TFTV. You're probably going to tl;dr this since no one really knows who I even am, but if you still have any bit of hope left for competitive team fortress 2, I'd urge you to at least skim this huge post. I wrote this way into the night so it might be a bit of a jumbled mess with lots of swearing so I apologize if I [s]trigger[/s] anyone.

I wanted to share a few words with you guys since I guess this is the main hub for tf2 right now. I am going to rant right now as someone who was once in love with this game, but found himself without passion for it after a while. I'm not speaking as a pro. I was an awful pub player who at most joined a shitty tf2lobby here and there. Saying that may burn away any credibility from my post may have had, but I really don't care right now since I'm speaking as someone who was once a fan of the scene and it's esteemed players. In the first place, if you ignore my opinion just because I'm just a viewer or a fan, then I guess you're all comfortable with playing an embarrassingly dead esport with max 300 twitch viewers for big lans.

I'd just like to say that I think team fortress 2 has an insane amount of untapped potential as a spectator sport that pros and tournament admins alike refuse to acknowledge. Part of the reason for this is that you're all slowly indoctrinated by better players as you move up in the scene where certain aspects of the game are concerned. [b]I'm referring to, of course, the weapon bans in tournaments such as ESEA, as well as in general the amount of restrictions placed on the way people play comp tf2.[/b] This probably seems irrelevant to you as someone people who have played this game for however many years, but I mean come on, look at this shit. http://play.esea.net/index.php?s=content&d=league_rules_tf2

You've unanimously agreed to ban almost the entire item pool list because you're all too incompetent to find ways to deal with these weapons in play. Some of this shit isn't even good compared to stock weapons, and I really can't find a valid reason for them to be banned at all. The scene has been stagnant for years now, and that is probably due to the fact that the competitive tf2 community has decided that they are incapable of adapting to these weapons in their scrims/officials.

How is that not the sad? Do you even like this game, or do you all just obligated to play it at this point since you've already wasted this much of your lives on it? If you're unwilling to put even the tiniestt amount of effort in researching and testing mechanics in the game that YOU are supposed to be good at, then your scene is basically a fucking joke. There is no room for argument here.

From a spectator's perspective it's disgusting, and probably one of the major reasons the scene has been this dead despite tf2 being a relatively big game on steam. When people hear about the pro scene the first thing they think is that it's handled ridiculously. I mean, the fun in watching a sport like basketball or football (not that handegg shit americucks play because that isn't a sport) is that you can go to the court or the field, play a pickup game with friends and then go watch the professionals play later. There is this level of connection between fans of the game when you're able to do this kind of thing. But right now, comp TF2 has long since killed this kind of interactivity by alienating the casual audience with things like their their weapon bans list because "they're too op they're stupid waaa t_t". So really, how can you blame people who refuse to care about this games pro scene when you decide to basically boycott the entire weapons list because it's hard for you to deal with?

"But we have to ban them, the weapons are unbalanced!" "They're antifun!" Have you bozos actually tried thinking of ways to counter play the weapons strengths? Have you tried to implement the niche weapons into interesting strategies? I mean seriously, how exciting would competitive tf2 be if pros would create innovative and silly pocket strats with unpopular loadouts and class combos? Imagine how much more fun it would be to watch with a 6v6 final flashy and fun weapons like the sandman? The scene would definitely grow if players and organizers loosened up way more on the item bans. Even from your point of view, you're basically forcing yourselves day in and day out to play the same game like a bunch of poorfag children who only own snakes and ladders.

I mean, I won't deny the fact that some weapons are broken as all hell. Don't get me wrong, I'm not completely blind to how fucked this game is right now. But you're forgetting that you're a community of people playing this game, TF2, at the highest level in the world right now. Let that sink in. You're the best at this game. Why shouldn't your words mean anything? Why do you all think that you can't change anything? If you really care about this game, then shouldn't you get together and start trying to communicate with valve right now? As impossible as that sounds to get a hold of them, if you actually feel anything for this game then shouldn't it be possible? I mean, who the fuck cares if they're balancing for pubs? They'd been doing that since day 1 and they somehow made a game with an [s]deceptively high skill ceiling[/s] (pyro xd) relatively respectable skill ceiling. There's no way it isn't worth trying to negotiate with them. You've put in more honest hours of work and more effort into this game than any of the other fuckheads who idle in trade servers and call themselves tf2 players. If anything, they should be listening to you guys over anyone else who plays this shitty game.

For those thinking it's just a pipe dream, have you even seen what dota 2 is like right now? Valve plucks ui ideas from le reddit like no tomorrow and has been steadily improving the game to be something great. Even Icefrog, the main developer in charge of balance, discusses the state of the game with professional players before he creates any of his balance changes. I don't think such a situation is impossible for tf2 right now, since valve is probably aware that they should be catering to not only a casual audience, but also a competitive audience as well. If you guys can at least TRY to get in touch with Valve, then who knows? Maybe TF2 will become the game of your dreams. But if you just sit here and bitch about everything, while banning all the weapons and pretending everything is fine, then your game is done. I am sorry.

This is just my interpretation of the situation right now. The game is stagnating.

I get that right now, you all just want to improve your dm and be the best, but from a spectators point of view, it just isn't that interesting. Strategy and adaptability are also traits you should be honing as people who play this game professionally. To switch your brain off at a lan and just play it the same as always is embarrassing if you want the scene taken seriously. The same game every time gets boring for spectators. DM is important but this is a team game with a large amount of depth so good strategy is definitely capable of beating a group of individually skilled players. And it's much more fun to watch too.

And you're all probably slowly getting tired of playing this unchanging game day in and day out anyway. If you don't care enough to try taking steps towards taking back this game, then you may as well stay here and jerk each other off. Go ahead and kill comp tf2 if you're all too scared of change. Because the way things are now the game is fucked and you all know it deep down inside.

(Also, if take nothing else from my ramblings, then at least listen to me when I say that this game isn't about goddamn dming, so stop jerking off over who you beat in mge for fucks sake FUCK YOU.)
2
#2
19 Frags +
TohsakaRinmax 300 twitch viewers for big lans.

yeah ur definitely a "viewer or fan"
i'm a nobody like you, but at least i don't spout shit

edit. i skimmed over all of this and i realized that this is most likely an elaborate troll

[quote=TohsakaRin]
max 300 twitch viewers for big lans.
[/quote]
yeah ur definitely a "viewer or fan"
i'm a nobody like you, but at least i don't spout shit

edit. i skimmed over all of this and i realized that this is most likely an elaborate troll
3
#3
newbie.tf
3 Frags +

tf2 doesnt need to change to stay "alive" or whatever. esea is huge this season despite it being winter, when numbers are typically much lower. we keep the meta the way it is because it's fun and it what we like.

tf2 doesnt need to change to stay "alive" or whatever. esea is huge this season despite it being winter, when numbers are typically much lower. we keep the meta the way it is because it's fun and it what we like.
4
#4
12 Frags +
TohsakaRinI mean, the fun in watching a sport like basketball or football (not that handegg shit americucks play because that isn't a sport)

Go back to /pol/ please.

[quote=TohsakaRin]I mean, the fun in watching a sport like basketball or football (not that handegg shit americucks play because that isn't a sport) [/quote] Go back to /pol/ please.
5
#5
5 Frags +
You've unanimously agreed to ban almost the entire item pool list because you're all too incompetent to find ways to deal with these weapons in play

what

[quote]You've unanimously agreed to ban almost the entire item pool list because you're all too incompetent to find ways to deal with these weapons in play[/quote]
what
6
#6
22 Frags +

Here is a single grain of salt.

https://i.imgur.com/arHcpW8.jpg

Here is a single grain of salt.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/arHcpW8.jpg[/img]
7
#7
6 Frags +

If you want people to listen to you, try to take less of a condescending tone. Go back to playing dota before you come in and tell us how to run our game.

If you want people to listen to you, try to take less of a condescending tone. Go back to playing dota before you come in and tell us how to run our game.
8
#8
3 Frags +

I'm sorry I just

I keep reading this post and rereading it and I'm trying to make sense of it but it's literally just so retarded and unsourced I just can't even

I'm sorry I just

I keep reading this post and rereading it and I'm trying to make sense of it but it's literally just so retarded and unsourced I just can't even
9
#9
17 Frags +

http://i.imgur.com/XMZEp0x.png

[img]http://i.imgur.com/XMZEp0x.png[/img]
10
#10
newbie.tf
18 Frags +

shitpost response one-liners with kevinispwn

  • if you're not trolling then i'm sorry about whatever disease you have, op
  • you probably spent more time writing that post than ever playing/ watching competitive tf2
  • pyroclass is devil
  • you'd have issues with these weapons if you knew how to play the game
  • the meta is less stagnant than the fluid that is accumulating in your head
  • to the dumpster we go
shitpost response one-liners with kevinispwn

[list]
[*] if you're not trolling then i'm sorry about whatever disease you have, op
[*] you probably spent more time writing that post than ever playing/ watching competitive tf2
[*] pyroclass is devil
[*] you'd have issues with these weapons if you knew how to play the game
[*] the meta is less stagnant than the fluid that is accumulating in your head
[*] to the dumpster we go
[/list]
11
#11
3 Frags +

going into this i thought it would be a positive wall of text. i was wrong. please leave.

going into this i thought it would be a positive wall of text. i was wrong. please leave.
12
#12
4 Frags +

ya y dont we just adapt smh

ya y dont we just adapt smh
13
#13
-4 Frags +
KevinIsPwnshitpost response one-liners with kevinispwn
  • if you're not trolling then i'm sorry about whatever disease you have, op
  • you probably spent more time writing that post than ever playing/ watching competitive tf2
  • pyroclass is devil
  • you'd have issues with these weapons if you knew how to play the game
  • the meta is less stagnant than the water that is accumulating in your head
  • to the dumpster we go

You left out my name is kevin and i just pwned your ass.

[quote=KevinIsPwn]shitpost response one-liners with kevinispwn

[list]
[*] if you're not trolling then i'm sorry about whatever disease you have, op
[*] you probably spent more time writing that post than ever playing/ watching competitive tf2
[*] pyroclass is devil
[*] you'd have issues with these weapons if you knew how to play the game
[*] the meta is less stagnant than the water that is accumulating in your head
[*] to the dumpster we go
[/list][/quote]
You left out my name is kevin and i just pwned your ass.
14
#14
-1 Frags +
KevinIsPwntf2 doesnt need to change to stay "alive" or whatever. esea is huge this season despite it being winter, when numbers are typically much lower. we keep the meta the way it is because it's fun and it what we like.

Not quite on topic with OP but what are the current ESEA enrollments looking like? From what I can see, the NA Open division only just made the cutoff of 50 registered teams. Wasn't TF2 going to get pulled without 50? Or does that count include intermediate and invite as well?

[quote=KevinIsPwn]tf2 doesnt need to change to stay "alive" or whatever. esea is huge this season despite it being winter, when numbers are typically much lower. we keep the meta the way it is because it's fun and it what we like.[/quote]
Not quite on topic with OP but what are the current ESEA enrollments looking like? From what I can see, the NA Open division only just made the cutoff of 50 registered teams. Wasn't TF2 going to get pulled without 50? Or does that count include intermediate and invite as well?
15
#15
-1 Frags +
yttriumKevinIsPwntf2 doesnt need to change to stay "alive" or whatever. esea is huge this season despite it being winter, when numbers are typically much lower. we keep the meta the way it is because it's fun and it what we like.Not quite on topic with OP but what are the current ESEA enrollments looking like? From what I can see, the NA Open division only just made the cutoff of 50 registered teams. Wasn't TF2 going to get pulled without 50? Or does that count include intermediate and invite as well?

50 total

[quote=yttrium][quote=KevinIsPwn]tf2 doesnt need to change to stay "alive" or whatever. esea is huge this season despite it being winter, when numbers are typically much lower. we keep the meta the way it is because it's fun and it what we like.[/quote]
Not quite on topic with OP but what are the current ESEA enrollments looking like? From what I can see, the NA Open division only just made the cutoff of 50 registered teams. Wasn't TF2 going to get pulled without 50? Or does that count include intermediate and invite as well?[/quote]
50 total
16
#16
newbie.tf
2 Frags +
yttriumKevinIsPwntf2 doesnt need to change to stay "alive" or whatever. esea is huge this season despite it being winter, when numbers are typically much lower. we keep the meta the way it is because it's fun and it what we like.Not quite on topic with OP but what are the current ESEA enrollments looking like? From what I can see, the NA Open division only just made the cutoff of 50 registered teams. Wasn't TF2 going to get pulled without 50? Or does that count include intermediate and invite as well?

58 in open
16 in IM
9 in invite
(i think)

[quote=yttrium][quote=KevinIsPwn]tf2 doesnt need to change to stay "alive" or whatever. esea is huge this season despite it being winter, when numbers are typically much lower. we keep the meta the way it is because it's fun and it what we like.[/quote]
Not quite on topic with OP but what are the current ESEA enrollments looking like? From what I can see, the NA Open division only just made the cutoff of 50 registered teams. Wasn't TF2 going to get pulled without 50? Or does that count include intermediate and invite as well?[/quote]
58 in open
16 in IM
9 in invite
(i think)
17
#17
2 Frags +
dokidokipanic50 total

Oh alright. I know I saw a couple of posts a few weeks ago encouraging more teams to sign up because ESEA would pull TF2 for the winter if they didn't meet the 50 team cutoff, and that they only had around 40 at the time. I guess that might have encouraged more people to sign up because now they're at a strong 83. I was genuinely worried for a little bit.

KevinIsPwn58 in open
16 in IM
9 in invite
(i think)

That's what the current numbers are, yes, I just didn't know if the 50 team cutoff was just for open, in which case we only barely met the cutoff considering that count was far lower a week or two ago, or if the count was all divisions combined in which case we're fine now.

[quote=dokidokipanic]50 total[/quote]
Oh alright. I know I saw a couple of posts a few weeks ago encouraging more teams to sign up because ESEA would pull TF2 for the winter if they didn't meet the 50 team cutoff, and that they only had around 40 at the time. I guess that might have encouraged more people to sign up because now they're at a strong 83. I was genuinely worried for a little bit.

[quote=KevinIsPwn]58 in open
16 in IM
9 in invite
(i think)[/quote]
That's what the current numbers are, yes, I just didn't know if the 50 team cutoff was just for open, in which case we only barely met the cutoff considering that count was far lower a week or two ago, or if the count was all divisions combined in which case we're fine now.
18
#18
3 Frags +

There's probably going to be a dip in IM (not quite 16), but a pretty big bump in open bodes well for the future of the higher divs and IM in particular.

There's probably going to be a dip in IM (not quite 16), but a pretty big bump in open bodes well for the future of the higher divs and IM in particular.
19
#19
-15 Frags +
KevinIsPwnwe keep the meta the way it is because it's fun and it what we like.

This is the main reason tf2 won't get bigger. It's going to remain this underground game that you have no real drive to put time into. It's just something you do in your spare time for fun that you happen to be good at because you once liked it, so you're able to compete casually with your friends. If the game changes you'll have to try and you are all afraid of the change.

yttriumwhat

What about what I said is wrong?

badinkajink
yeah ur definitely a "viewer or fan"
i'm a nobody like you, but at least i don't spout shit

I apologize for hyperbolizing but your nitpicking doesn't change any of my points. The game isn't that big at all and you'd have to be delusional to think otherwise.

[quote=KevinIsPwn]we keep the meta the way it is because it's fun and it what we like.[/quote]

This is the main reason tf2 won't get bigger. It's going to remain this underground game that you have no real drive to put time into. It's just something you do in your spare time for fun that you happen to be good at because you once liked it, so you're able to compete casually with your friends. If the game changes you'll have to try and you are all afraid of the change.

[quote=yttrium]what[/quote]
What about what I said is wrong?

[quote=badinkajink]

yeah ur definitely a "viewer or fan"
i'm a nobody like you, but at least i don't spout shit[/quote]
I apologize for hyperbolizing but your nitpicking doesn't change any of my points. The game isn't that big at all and you'd have to be delusional to think otherwise.
20
#20
3 Frags +
TohsakaRinWhat about what I said is wrong?

oh fuck you're serious?

[quote=TohsakaRin]What about what I said is wrong?[/quote]
oh fuck you're serious?
21
#21
6 Frags +

fuck off jovan
edit:

http://i.imgur.com/hREVHUf.png

fuck off jovan
edit:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/hREVHUf.png[/img]
22
#22
4 Frags +
TohsakaRinretardation

Bigger than the what used to be massive Quake. Is Quake bad because they don't have all these new items?

Also, no other esport has been alive as long as tf2 other than like CS 1.6 and Broodwar.

[quote=TohsakaRin]retardation[/quote]

Bigger than the what used to be massive Quake. Is Quake bad because they don't have all these new items?

Also, no other esport has been alive as long as tf2 other than like CS 1.6 and Broodwar.
23
#23
14 Frags +

Yeah the reason tf2 is not popular is totally weapon bans fault dude, it's totally not because it lacks a 10 Million dollar official sponsored tournament, or in-game matchmaking or actual dev support.

It all comes down to not being able to use the Phlog like u do in pubs and make those fantastic and totally skilled plays with it. Thats the thing that has prevented tf2 from making it big all these years, why did we never think of that

Yeah the reason tf2 is not popular is totally weapon bans fault dude, it's totally not because it lacks a 10 Million dollar official sponsored tournament, or in-game matchmaking or actual dev support.

It all comes down to not being able to use the Phlog like u do in pubs and make those fantastic and totally skilled plays with it. Thats the thing that has prevented tf2 from making it big all these years, why did we never think of that
24
#24
6 Frags +

this is what anime does to u

this is what anime does to u
25
#25
-9 Frags +
KanecoYeah the reason tf2 is not popular is totally weapon bans fault dude, it's totally not because it lacks a 10 Million dollar tournament, or in-game matchmaking or actual dev support.

It all comes down to not being able to use the Phlog like u do in pubs and make those fantastic and totally skilled plays with it.

Reading comprehension. I said it was a major reason. No one is going to take a game where the players give 0 fucks about most of the weapon list seriously. It means you're acknowledging that you're playing a flawed game and have no intention of doing anything about it. I also never said that the phlog was balanced, it definitely falls into the category of guns with a fundamentally broken design.

[quote=Kaneco]Yeah the reason tf2 is not popular is totally weapon bans fault dude, it's totally not because it lacks a 10 Million dollar tournament, or in-game matchmaking or actual dev support.

It all comes down to not being able to use the Phlog like u do in pubs and make those fantastic and totally skilled plays with it.[/quote]

Reading comprehension. I said it was a major reason. No one is going to take a game where the players give 0 fucks about most of the weapon list seriously. It means you're acknowledging that you're playing a flawed game and have no intention of doing anything about it. I also never said that the phlog was balanced, it definitely falls into the category of guns with a fundamentally broken design.
26
#26
1 Frags +
TurinAlso, no other esport has been alive as long as tf2 other than like CS 1.6 and Broodwar.

Man I'm digging at my brain trying to prove you wrong but I really just can't. I guess CSS? That doesn't really count though. SC2 has been around since 2010, L4D2 since 2009. Maybe original DotA?

[quote=Turin]Also, no other esport has been alive as long as tf2 other than like CS 1.6 and Broodwar.[/quote]
Man I'm digging at my brain trying to prove you wrong but I really just can't. I guess CSS? That doesn't really count though. SC2 has been around since 2010, L4D2 since 2009. Maybe original DotA?
27
#27
2 Frags +
TohsakaRinReading comprehension. I said it was a major reason. No one is going to take a game where the players give 0 fucks about most of the weapon list seriously. It means you're acknowledging that you're playing a flawed game and have no intention of doing anything about it. I also never said that the phlog was balanced, it definitely falls into the category of guns with a fundamentally broken design.

Right now, I want you to go down the list of ESEA weapon bans, and share with me one weapon you think should be unbanned. I will give you a legitimately good reason for keeping that weapon banned.

Here's a friendly list if you're lazy.

Now, if you were trying to argue against ETF2L, maybe I could even slightly see an argument worth having. But ESEA?

[quote=TohsakaRin]Reading comprehension. I said it was a major reason. No one is going to take a game where the players give 0 fucks about most of the weapon list seriously. It means you're acknowledging that you're playing a flawed game and have no intention of doing anything about it. I also never said that the phlog was balanced, it definitely falls into the category of guns with a fundamentally broken design.[/quote]
Right now, I want you to go down the list of ESEA weapon bans, and share with me one weapon you think should be unbanned. I will give you a legitimately good reason for keeping that weapon banned.

[url=https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Competitive_item_restrictions]Here's a friendly list if you're lazy[/url].

Now, if you were trying to argue against ETF2L, maybe I could even slightly see an argument worth having. But ESEA?
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#28
2 Frags +
yttriumTurinAlso, no other esport has been alive as long as tf2 other than like CS 1.6 and Broodwar.Man I'm digging at my brain trying to prove you wrong but I really just can't. I guess CSS? That doesn't really count though. SC2 has been around since 2010, L4D2 since 2009. Maybe original DotA?

With a scene as active as tf2 I can only think of quake but even then, quake live can be considered a different game, and it was released after tf2 iirc. Maybe W: Enemy Territory? But the scene is pretty much dead.

[quote=yttrium][quote=Turin]Also, no other esport has been alive as long as tf2 other than like CS 1.6 and Broodwar.[/quote]
Man I'm digging at my brain trying to prove you wrong but I really just can't. I guess CSS? That doesn't really count though. SC2 has been around since 2010, L4D2 since 2009. Maybe original DotA?[/quote]

With a scene as active as tf2 I can only think of quake but even then, quake live can be considered a different game, and it was released after tf2 iirc. Maybe W: Enemy Territory? But the scene is pretty much dead.
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#29
1 Frags +
KanecoWith a scene as active as tf2 I can only think of quake but even then, quake live can be considered a different game, and it was released after tf2 iirc. Maybe W: Enemy Territory? But the scene is pretty much dead.

I think the only thing big enough that wasn't CSS since it just came after 1.6 and leeched the scene from it might be DotA, which stayed around from 2003 until Dota 2's release in 2013 (2011 if you count beta). That's a good 10 years I guess, so I guess that's longer than TF2, but it's dead now and if TF2 stays alive a couple more years it'll surpass it.

[quote=Kaneco]With a scene as active as tf2 I can only think of quake but even then, quake live can be considered a different game, and it was released after tf2 iirc. Maybe W: Enemy Territory? But the scene is pretty much dead.[/quote]
I think the only thing big enough that wasn't CSS since it just came after 1.6 and leeched the scene from it might be DotA, which stayed around from 2003 until Dota 2's release in 2013 (2011 if you count beta). That's a good 10 years I guess, so I guess that's longer than TF2, but it's dead now and if TF2 stays alive a couple more years it'll surpass it.
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#30
1 Frags +

DotA technically was around for 3 years longer than tf2 but it wasn't really an esport for the first few years, it was mostly just a mod that some people ran. I'll include DotA in that list.

So essentially, tf2 is the most prolific esport out of the major ones in history (Quake, all 3 CS's, both DOTA's, LoL, and SC's)

DotA technically was around for 3 years longer than tf2 but it wasn't really an esport for the first few years, it was mostly just a mod that some people ran. I'll include DotA in that list.

So essentially, tf2 is the most prolific esport out of the major ones in history (Quake, all 3 CS's, both DOTA's, LoL, and SC's)
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