DougWariit's more of making demo worse than soldier, and you can be at least 5% better than a soldier if you land slow-moving, arcing projectiles perfectly ontop of everyone you ever meet and you have no room for error ever
http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/67/Grenade_Launcher.png/250px-Grenade_Launcher.png
This is the primary weapon of the Demoman class. You should be comparing this weapon to the Rocket launcher, not the secondary weapon called sticky launcher.
so medics should needle not heal?
[quote=Doug][quote=Wari]it's more of making demo worse than soldier, and you can be at least 5% better than a soldier if you land slow-moving, arcing projectiles perfectly ontop of everyone you ever meet and you have no room for error ever[/quote]
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/67/Grenade_Launcher.png/250px-Grenade_Launcher.png[/img]
This is the [b]primary[/b] weapon of the Demoman class. You should be comparing this weapon to the Rocket launcher, not the [b]secondary[/b] weapon called sticky launcher.[/quote]
so medics should needle not heal?
Wariyou can be at least 5% better than a soldier if you land slow-moving, arcing projectiles perfectly ontop of everyone you ever meet and you have no room for error ever
And the complaint remain as "you have to hit shots to be good in a first person shooting gaming".
@About the primary and secondary weapon argument
It isn't about a weapon needing to be more used if it's the primary, it's about demomen still having a grenade launcher which can do more damage than the rocket launcher, while having something that can completely deny a push (sticky trap).
Some people are posting as stickies spam is the only way a demoman could do damage and like Valve completely removed that.
[quote=Wari]you can be at least 5% better than a soldier if you land slow-moving, arcing projectiles perfectly ontop of everyone you ever meet and you have no room for error ever[/quote]
And the complaint remain as "you have to hit shots to be good in a first person shooting gaming".
@About the primary and secondary weapon argument
It isn't about a weapon needing to be more used if it's the primary, it's about demomen still having a grenade launcher which can do more damage than the rocket launcher, while having something that can completely deny a push (sticky trap).
Some people are posting as stickies spam is the only way a demoman could do damage and like Valve completely removed that.
Waripine_beetleOr you can just hit some fucking pills. My gosh.
pamphletyou just have to choose to never miss again
Big fucking deal. You can either hit your shots and do big damage, or you can miss your shots and do less damage. You got the nice giant projectile hitboxes use them to your advantage. Demo is the only combat class where it's extremely forgiving to have bad aim, so nerfing left click right click really isn't that bad because it's so easy and extremely effective. It still is even after the nerf... Before there was almost no reason to switch to pills because left click right click is so strong. Now though pills are stronger in that specific situation. So hit your pills or do less damage with stickies. It's not the end of the world.
[quote=Wari][quote=pine_beetle]Or you can just hit some fucking pills. My gosh.[/quote]
[quote=pamphlet]you just have to choose to never miss again[/quote][/quote]
Big fucking deal. You can either hit your shots and do big damage, or you can miss your shots and do less damage. You got the nice giant projectile hitboxes use them to your advantage. Demo is the only combat class where it's extremely forgiving to have bad aim, so nerfing left click right click really isn't that bad because it's so easy and extremely effective. It still is even after the nerf... Before there was almost no reason to switch to pills because left click right click is so strong. Now though pills are stronger in that specific situation. So hit your pills or do less damage with stickies. It's not the end of the world.
PlatinumMustard the reason why I like this change is because it breathes new life into a somewhat stagnant game. New strategies, play styles, things to worry about and things to figure out are much more fun to me than putting in 80 hours a week to perfect some spam angles that instagib an over buffed scout.
So for quake, let's breathe some life into the game by making the railgun do 50% damage but fires faster, the LG now has a damage cone instead of just being on one point, and the gauntlet now gives a 2x speed bonus and instakills.
Sorry breathing life into a game by changing basic game mechanics is not the way to go. There are many other, better ways to allow for new strategies and play styles. As a mapper, I think changing up or reviving gamemodes, or even just introducting new maps (#CutGranary2014) does this job way better without pissing off half the active community.
[quote=Platinum]Mustard the reason why I like this change is because it breathes new life into a somewhat stagnant game. New strategies, play styles, things to worry about and things to figure out are much more fun to me than putting in 80 hours a week to perfect some spam angles that instagib an over buffed scout.[/quote]
So for quake, let's breathe some life into the game by making the railgun do 50% damage but fires faster, the LG now has a damage cone instead of just being on one point, and the gauntlet now gives a 2x speed bonus and instakills.
Sorry breathing life into a game by changing basic game mechanics is not the way to go. There are many other, better ways to allow for new strategies and play styles. As a mapper, I think changing up or reviving gamemodes, or even just introducting new maps (#CutGranary2014) does this job way better without pissing off half the active community.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/pxH9uau.png[/img]
Doug@About the primary and secondary weapon argument
It isn't about a weapon needing to be more used if it's the primary, it's about demomen still having a grenade launcher which can do more damage than the rocket launcher, while having something that can completely deny a push (sticky trap).
Some people are posting as stickies spam is the only way a demoman could do damage and like Valve completely removed that.
Rockets do splash damage.
[quote=Doug]
@About the primary and secondary weapon argument
It isn't about a weapon needing to be more used if it's the primary, it's about demomen still having a grenade launcher which can do more damage than the rocket launcher, while having something that can completely deny a push (sticky trap).
Some people are posting as stickies spam is the only way a demoman could do damage and like Valve completely removed that.[/quote]
Rockets do splash damage.
Ma3laaWould've made a lot more sense for the update to be: Sticky Bombs do 15% less damage.
That way you can no longer kill a 125 HP class with a single sticky, the max damage you could do would be 117.
I'm pretty confident valve will change this though, it's sort of what happened with the quick fix before, they made a much to drastic change to the weapon and then found a middle ground between the original stats and the changed stats to make it a better rounded item.
I'm going to quote this so all of you guys can read it again. Also, stop overreacting and complaining to have it put back the way it was because there was obviously some facet of the game that needed to be addressed. If we as a community have such a better understanding of this game than pub players or even Valve themselves, then we should instead try to think of a BETTER way to change it so it wouldn't be such a detriment to our own competitive play, while still making it more fun for pubs.
[quote=Ma3laa]Would've made a lot more sense for the update to be: Sticky Bombs do 15% less damage.
That way you can no longer kill a 125 HP class with a single sticky, the max damage you could do would be 117.
I'm pretty confident valve will change this though, it's sort of what happened with the quick fix before, they made a much to drastic change to the weapon and then found a middle ground between the original stats and the changed stats to make it a better rounded item.[/quote]
I'm going to quote this so all of you guys can read it again. Also, stop overreacting and complaining to have it put back the way it was because there was obviously some facet of the game that needed to be addressed. If we as a community have such a better understanding of this game than pub players or even Valve themselves, then we should instead try to think of a BETTER way to change it so it wouldn't be such a detriment to our own competitive play, while still making it more fun for pubs.
we theorycrafting general
we theorycrafting general
WariPlatinumMustard the reason why I like this change is because it breathes new life into a somewhat stagnant game. New strategies, play styles, things to worry about and things to figure out are much more fun to me than putting in 80 hours a week to perfect some spam angles that instagib an over buffed scout.
So for quake, let's breathe some life into the game by making the railgun do 50% damage but fires faster, the LG now has a damage cone instead of just being on one point, and the gauntlet now gives a 2x speed bonus and instakills.
Sorry breathing life into a game by changing basic game mechanics is not the way to go.
You have to be joking. Demo does less damage immediately after firing and you compare it to that.
[quote=Wari][quote=Platinum]Mustard the reason why I like this change is because it breathes new life into a somewhat stagnant game. New strategies, play styles, things to worry about and things to figure out are much more fun to me than putting in 80 hours a week to perfect some spam angles that instagib an over buffed scout.[/quote]
So for quake, let's breathe some life into the game by making the railgun do 50% damage but fires faster, the LG now has a damage cone instead of just being on one point, and the gauntlet now gives a 2x speed bonus and instakills.
Sorry breathing life into a game by changing basic game mechanics is not the way to go.[/quote]
You have to be joking. Demo does less damage immediately after firing and you compare it to that.
bastiDoug@About the primary and secondary weapon argument
It isn't about a weapon needing to be more used if it's the primary, it's about demomen still having a grenade launcher which can do more damage than the rocket launcher, while having something that can completely deny a push (sticky trap).
Some people are posting as stickies spam is the only way a demoman could do damage and like Valve completely removed that.
Rockets do splash damage.
And are slower
And take longer to reload
And have a higher cooldown between shoots
And have damage falloff
[quote=basti][quote=Doug]
@About the primary and secondary weapon argument
It isn't about a weapon needing to be more used if it's the primary, it's about demomen still having a grenade launcher which can do more damage than the rocket launcher, while having something that can completely deny a push (sticky trap).
Some people are posting as stickies spam is the only way a demoman could do damage and like Valve completely removed that.[/quote]
Rockets do splash damage.[/quote]
And are slower
And take longer to reload
And have a higher cooldown between shoots
And have damage falloff
paulitoMa3laaWould've made a lot more sense for the update to be: Sticky Bombs do 15% less damage.
That way you can no longer kill a 125 HP class with a single sticky, the max damage you could do would be 117.
I'm pretty confident valve will change this though, it's sort of what happened with the quick fix before, they made a much to drastic change to the weapon and then found a middle ground between the original stats and the changed stats to make it a better rounded item.
I'm going to quote this so all of you guys can read it again. Also, stop overreacting and complaining to have it put back the way it was because there was obviously some facet of the game that needed to be addressed. If we as a community have such a better understanding of this game than pub players or even Valve themselves, then we should instead try to think of a BETTER way to change it so it wouldn't be such a detriment to our own competitive play, while still making it more fun for pubs.
There were some pretty good ideas already presented such as reducing clip size to 5 or 6 or adding damage fall off over distance
[quote=paulito][quote=Ma3laa]Would've made a lot more sense for the update to be: Sticky Bombs do 15% less damage.
That way you can no longer kill a 125 HP class with a single sticky, the max damage you could do would be 117.
I'm pretty confident valve will change this though, it's sort of what happened with the quick fix before, they made a much to drastic change to the weapon and then found a middle ground between the original stats and the changed stats to make it a better rounded item.[/quote]
I'm going to quote this so all of you guys can read it again. Also, stop overreacting and complaining to have it put back the way it was because there was obviously some facet of the game that needed to be addressed. If we as a community have such a better understanding of this game than pub players or even Valve themselves, then we should instead try to think of a BETTER way to change it so it wouldn't be such a detriment to our own competitive play, while still making it more fun for pubs.[/quote]
There were some pretty good ideas already presented such as reducing clip size to 5 or 6 or adding damage fall off over distance
DougbastiRockets do splash damage.
And are slower
And take longer to reload
And have a higher cooldown between shoots
And have damage falloff
And I can still more or less reliably kill a scout charging at me when i have at least 3 of them loaded. You can't do that with pipes.
Also self damage is a bitch.
[quote=Doug][quote=basti]
Rockets do splash damage.[/quote]
And are slower
And take longer to reload
And have a higher cooldown between shoots
And have damage falloff[/quote]
And I can still more or less reliably kill a scout charging at me when i have at least 3 of them loaded. You can't do that with pipes.
Also self damage is a bitch.
StaleWaffleThere were some pretty good ideas already presented such as reducing clip size to 5 or 6 or adding damage fall off over distance
Haha, those were what I'd have suggested. My bad for skipping like 20 pages
Edit: I also suggest actually making the ramp-up occur over distance OR time. You're not trying to blow up an incoming scout with a fully charged sticky, but by the time that critted sticky reaches the back of last in half a second it's already full damage.
[quote=StaleWaffle]
There were some pretty good ideas already presented such as reducing clip size to 5 or 6 or adding damage fall off over distance[/quote]
Haha, those were what I'd have suggested. My bad for skipping like 20 pages
Edit: I also suggest actually making the ramp-up occur over distance OR time. You're not trying to blow up an incoming scout with a fully charged sticky, but by the time that critted sticky reaches the back of last in half a second it's already full damage.
bastiDougbastiRockets do splash damage.
And are slower
And take longer to reload
And have a higher cooldown between shoots
And have damage falloff
And I can still more or less reliably kill a scout charging at me when i have at least 3 of them loaded. You can't do that with pipes.
Also self damage is a bitch.
And you should reliably kill scout charging at you with stickies because...?
Equip Loose Cannon if you want scout out of your personal space.
[quote=basti][quote=Doug][quote=basti]
Rockets do splash damage.[/quote]
And are slower
And take longer to reload
And have a higher cooldown between shoots
And have damage falloff[/quote]
And I can still more or less reliably kill a scout charging at me when i have at least 3 of them loaded. You can't do that with pipes.
Also self damage is a bitch.[/quote]
And you should reliably kill scout charging at you with stickies because...?
Equip Loose Cannon if you want scout out of your personal space.
Possimpible
And you should reliably kill scout charging at you with stickies because...?
Equip Loose Cannon if you want scout out of your personal space.
Because it's dumb that a scout can just run into the demo and fuck him over even if the demo hits.. like 3 sticks? Loose Cannon is a nice idea but you still wont get all the close range double donks before he meatshots you once and you die from self damage or some shit.
It's not only about killing scouts running at you it's just much more easy to realiably do damage with rockets than with pipes and pipes are nowhere as good of a primary.
[quote=Possimpible]
And you should reliably kill scout charging at you with stickies because...?
Equip Loose Cannon if you want scout out of your personal space.[/quote]
Because it's dumb that a scout can just run into the demo and fuck him over even if the demo hits.. like 3 sticks? Loose Cannon is a nice idea but you still wont get all the close range double donks before he meatshots you once and you die from self damage or some shit.
It's not only about killing scouts running at you it's just much more easy to realiably do damage with rockets than with pipes and pipes are nowhere as good of a primary.
guess no day 3 update?
edit: nvm, no fix though :<.
guess no day 3 update?
edit: nvm, no fix though :<.
How's this for an idea?
Minor nerf to damage (-10/15%)
Switch ramp up to blast range instead of damage.
Less AoE damage , sticky traps are still useful, and you have to somewhat aim stickies. I'd probably decrease clip size on top of that too.
How's this for an idea?
Minor nerf to damage (-10/15%)
Switch ramp up to blast range instead of damage.
Less AoE damage , sticky traps are still useful, and you have to somewhat aim stickies. I'd probably decrease clip size on top of that too.
StaleWaffleThere were some pretty good ideas already presented such as reducing clip size to 5 or 6 or adding damage fall off over distance
The issue was never long range. Hitting stickies across the map is the most skill based thing about the weapon, that should be rewarded, close range defensive floor spamming with stickies however, should not as it is not supposed to be a strong, or even moderately strong, close quarters class.
Edit: on the other hand, soldiers are able to shoot at the ground, pipes do not afford the same liberty. With pipes, if someone hugs you and you want to do damage, you're forced to take self damage. With rockets on the other hand, you can minimize, or even completely neutralize and self damage by shooting the ground and putting yourself out of splash range, or placing the rocket behind your aggressor so that you don't get hit by the splash.
[quote=StaleWaffle]
There were some pretty good ideas already presented such as reducing clip size to 5 or 6 or adding damage fall off over distance[/quote]
The issue was never long range. Hitting stickies across the map is the most skill based thing about the weapon, that should be rewarded, close range defensive floor spamming with stickies however, should not as it is not supposed to be a strong, or even moderately strong, close quarters class.
Edit: on the other hand, soldiers are able to shoot at the ground, pipes do not afford the same liberty. With pipes, if someone hugs you and you want to do damage, you're forced to take self damage. With rockets on the other hand, you can minimize, or even completely neutralize and self damage by shooting the ground and putting yourself out of splash range, or placing the rocket behind your aggressor so that you don't get hit by the splash.
why don't you email valve this seeing as how no one is going to see this besides tf.tv
why don't you email valve this seeing as how no one is going to see this besides tf.tv
An update to Team Fortress 2 has been released. The update will be applied automatically when you restart Team Fortress 2. The major changes include:
Added a new startup music track from Expiration Date
Added a crafting recipe for The Back Scatter
Fixed a client crash caused by Strange Fists
Fixed players using the partner taunts to enter enemy spawn rooms
Fixed a regression with the Disco Beat Down unusual effect
Fixed The Classic automatically zooming in after going through a teleporter while charging
Updated The Tide Turner to also refill the charge meter from impact kills
so close
An update to Team Fortress 2 has been released. The update will be applied automatically when you restart Team Fortress 2. The major changes include:
Added a new startup music track from Expiration Date
Added a crafting recipe for The Back Scatter
Fixed a client crash caused by Strange Fists
Fixed players using the partner taunts to enter enemy spawn rooms
Fixed a regression with the Disco Beat Down unusual effect
Fixed The Classic automatically zooming in after going through a teleporter while charging
Updated The Tide Turner to also refill the charge meter from impact kills
so close
BdonskiAnother day another scrim.
It's badlands and we're playing froyotech...
I LOVE YOU FOR THIS BDONSKI YOU BEAUTIFUL HUMAN BEING
[quote=Bdonski]Another day another scrim.
It's badlands and we're playing froyotech...[/quote]
I LOVE YOU FOR THIS BDONSKI YOU BEAUTIFUL HUMAN BEING
anyway why did they decide to change the rl/medigun/etc viewmodels but not fucking remove that hand on the left with the original
anyway why did they decide to change the rl/medigun/etc viewmodels but not fucking remove that hand on the left with the original
kanonanyway why did they decide to change the rl/medigun/etc viewmodels but not fucking remove that hand on the left with the original
I don't understand why they changed them at all, don't think anyone really complained about them. At least if they gave the option to put it back to how it was before. I don't actually play soldier but I do use viewmodels with it, the new one however takes up a ton of the screen and looks really odd to me.
Also, has anyone else noticed that the scouts left wrist is bent weird when reloading? Don't think it was like that before.
[quote=kanon]anyway why did they decide to change the rl/medigun/etc viewmodels but not fucking remove that hand on the left with the original[/quote]
I don't understand why they changed them at all, don't think anyone really complained about them. At least if they gave the option to put it back to how it was before. I don't actually play soldier but I do use viewmodels with it, the new one however takes up a ton of the screen and looks really odd to me.
Also, has anyone else noticed that the scouts left wrist is bent weird when reloading? Don't think it was like that before.
KarlDougWariit's more of making demo worse than soldier, and you can be at least 5% better than a soldier if you land slow-moving, arcing projectiles perfectly ontop of everyone you ever meet and you have no room for error ever
http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/67/Grenade_Launcher.png/250px-Grenade_Launcher.png
This is the primary weapon of the Demoman class. You should be comparing this weapon to the Rocket launcher, not the secondary weapon called sticky launcher.
so medics should needle not heal?
lets not forget about the spy's cloak and the knife, should nerf them so they have ramp up damage on the first 3 stabs per target.
[quote=Karl][quote=Doug][quote=Wari]it's more of making demo worse than soldier, and you can be at least 5% better than a soldier if you land slow-moving, arcing projectiles perfectly ontop of everyone you ever meet and you have no room for error ever[/quote]
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/67/Grenade_Launcher.png/250px-Grenade_Launcher.png[/img]
This is the [b]primary[/b] weapon of the Demoman class. You should be comparing this weapon to the Rocket launcher, not the [b]secondary[/b] weapon called sticky launcher.[/quote]
so medics should needle not heal?[/quote]
lets not forget about the spy's cloak and the knife, should nerf them so they have ramp up damage on the first 3 stabs per target.
KanecoSeagullMy first impressions of last night's games were that teams had to be a lot more intentional with positioning and teamfights generally drag out much longer.
Am I supposed to find the good part in this? Because nothing in this seems good to me...
Longer fights -> more opportunities for decisions regarding positioning/prediction/aim/movement -> more interesting fights that reward higher skill. The opposite would end up becoming somewhat like cod, where fights are won and lost based on few seconds leading up to the fight. Both can be fun, but the former is what makes tf2 (and other quake-like games) stand out.
[quote=Kaneco][quote=Seagull]My first impressions of last night's games were that teams had to be a lot more intentional with positioning and teamfights generally drag out much longer. [/quote]
Am I supposed to find the good part in this? Because nothing in this seems good to me...[/quote]
Longer fights -> more opportunities for decisions regarding positioning/prediction/aim/movement -> more interesting fights that reward higher skill. The opposite would end up becoming somewhat like cod, where fights are won and lost based on few seconds leading up to the fight. Both can be fun, but the former is what makes tf2 (and other quake-like games) stand out.
A small patch just hit. Tide turner refills charge on impact kills.
A small patch just hit. Tide turner refills charge on impact kills.
DontubermeA small patch just hit. Tide turner refills charge on impact kills.
Does valve actually base all their weapon changes off star's videos? Suddenly everything makes sense.
[quote=Dontuberme]A small patch just hit. Tide turner refills charge on impact kills.[/quote]
Does valve actually base all their weapon changes off star's videos? Suddenly everything makes sense.
DougAnd the complaint remain as "you have to hit shots to be good in a first person shooting gaming".
@About the primary and secondary weapon argument
It isn't about a weapon needing to be more used if it's the primary, it's about demomen still having a grenade launcher which can do more damage than the rocket launcher, while having something that can completely deny a push (sticky trap).
Some people are posting as stickies spam is the only way a demoman could do damage and like Valve completely removed that.
ur dum
evry class has 2 hit shots because shotoer game ye, but now if u play demo and ur acurate u get dik 4 damage and everyone callse u useless because 30 dmg stickies are adorable, when you dould do 48 dmg rockets (which r faster!(( with th same acuracy nd u dnt get fcukd by close rang either!
nade launcher is objectively better than RL only if ur literlly perfect. if u were that good with pipes, u were either invite or sandbagging, or a DM lord. Every demo just dropped half a division because no one seriously expected that the least useful secondary for all the 6s classes would actually be the primary. GL is shitty compared to every other back up weapon, because it filled literally the same niche as the SL, a mid range spam weapon. It's slightly better point blank just because directs, but even then you're gonna shoot yourself really hard and you'll have to back up or die. Nades as a primary are less consistent, less useful, and less damaging than SL for almost every player in the game right now
SL spam is the only way to deal consistent meaningful damage for demo. Pipes are too easy to avoid, and traps are not useful 90% of the time. When they work, they fuck people up, but especially now that they're the only way to actually demo, they're expected and therefore less threating bcus ud have 2 b retarded 2 actualy cnstintly die 2 traps. the trap heavy lifestyle also slows the game dwn bcus ud have 2 either rotare 4 each push or ubr thrugh togurante no drops, othrwise ur pltng dm 4tres 2 whch is gay bcus then evry fight is dependant on how dm gud ur pcket is
[quote=Doug]
And the complaint remain as "you have to hit shots to be good in a first person shooting gaming".
@About the primary and secondary weapon argument
It isn't about a weapon needing to be more used if it's the primary, it's about demomen still having a grenade launcher which can do more damage than the rocket launcher, while having something that can completely deny a push (sticky trap).
Some people are posting as stickies spam is the only way a demoman could do damage and like Valve completely removed that.[/quote]
ur dum
evry class has 2 hit shots because shotoer game ye, but now if u play demo and ur acurate u get dik 4 damage and everyone callse u useless because 30 dmg stickies are adorable, when you dould do 48 dmg rockets (which r faster!(( with th same acuracy nd u dnt get fcukd by close rang either!
nade launcher is objectively better than RL only if ur literlly perfect. if u were that good with pipes, u were either invite or sandbagging, or a DM lord. Every demo just dropped half a division because no one seriously expected that the least useful secondary for all the 6s classes would actually be the primary. GL is shitty compared to every other back up weapon, because it filled literally the same niche as the SL, a mid range spam weapon. It's slightly better point blank just because directs, but even then you're gonna shoot yourself really hard and you'll have to back up or die. Nades as a primary are less consistent, less useful, and less damaging than SL for almost every player in the game right now
SL spam is the only way to deal consistent meaningful damage for demo. Pipes are too easy to avoid, and traps are not useful 90% of the time. When they work, they fuck people up, but especially now that they're the only way to actually demo, they're expected and therefore less threating bcus ud have 2 b retarded 2 actualy cnstintly die 2 traps. the trap heavy lifestyle also slows the game dwn bcus ud have 2 either rotare 4 each push or ubr thrugh togurante no drops, othrwise ur pltng dm 4tres 2 whch is gay bcus then evry fight is dependant on how dm gud ur pcket is
eee...
I actually agree with you but they way you write it makes it really painfull to do so.
[quote=eee]
...
[/quote]
I actually agree with you but they way you write it makes it really painfull to do so.