holy shit i plus fragged a blink post
THE REMATCH IS REAL
posted in
TF2 General Discussion
blinKHow about you stop crying about the rules and just use some common sense and show some sportsmanship. Last season in esea open finals we didn't have to wait 2 hours for seanbud to fix his client. We did anyway because it was the fair thing to do, then we still had to reschedule. We also lost the reschedule. But that's what you have to do in the finals. Nobody wants to win or lose on a technicality like that, especially in a championship game, it's just stupid and not what we play for. We play for the fun in competition.
But there are rules for a reason, and i don´t think the "let´s throw those rules out the window and use common sense instead" approach is the right one. If both parties accept to not follow these rules for one reason or another ( so if MF9k would´ve allowed GC to have more timne) then that´s alright but to "cry about" MF9Ks decision to follow the rules instead is stupid. Why have rules to begin with if you don´t want anyone to follow them?
[quote=blinK]How about you stop crying about the rules and just use some common sense and show some sportsmanship. Last season in esea open finals we didn't have to wait 2 hours for seanbud to fix his client. We did anyway because it was the fair thing to do, then we still had to reschedule. We also lost the reschedule. But that's what you have to do in the finals. Nobody wants to win or lose on a technicality like that, especially in a championship game, it's just stupid and not what we play for. We play for the fun in competition.[/quote]
But there are rules for a reason, and i don´t think the "let´s throw those rules out the window and use common sense instead" approach is the right one. If both parties accept to not follow these rules for one reason or another ( so if MF9k would´ve allowed GC to have more timne) then that´s alright but to "cry about" MF9Ks decision to follow the rules instead is stupid. Why have rules to begin with if you don´t want anyone to follow them?
But there are rules for a reason, and i don´t think the "let´s throw those rules out the window and use common sense instead" approach is the right one. If both parties accept to not follow these rules for one reason or another ( so if MF9k would´ve allowed GC to have more timne) then that´s alright but to "cry about" MF9Ks decision to follow the rules instead is stupid. Why have rules to begin with if you don´t want anyone to follow them?
ReykiblinKHow about you stop crying about the rules and just use some common sense and show some sportsmanship. Last season in esea open finals we didn't have to wait 2 hours for seanbud to fix his client. We did anyway because it was the fair thing to do, then we still had to reschedule. We also lost the reschedule. But that's what you have to do in the finals. Nobody wants to win or lose on a technicality like that, especially in a championship game, it's just stupid and not what we play for. We play for the fun in competition.
But there are rules for a reason, and i don´t think the "let´s throw those rules out the window and use common sense instead" approach is the right one. If both parties accept to not follow these rules for one reason or another ( so if MF9k would´ve allowed GC to have more timne) then that´s alright but to "cry about" MF9Ks decision to follow the rules instead is stupid. Why have rules to begin with if you don´t want anyone to follow them?
Aww, look at you, you probably play Lawful Good characters in D&D.
[quote=Reyki][quote=blinK]How about you stop crying about the rules and just use some common sense and show some sportsmanship. Last season in esea open finals we didn't have to wait 2 hours for seanbud to fix his client. We did anyway because it was the fair thing to do, then we still had to reschedule. We also lost the reschedule. But that's what you have to do in the finals. Nobody wants to win or lose on a technicality like that, especially in a championship game, it's just stupid and not what we play for. We play for the fun in competition.[/quote]
But there are rules for a reason, and i don´t think the "let´s throw those rules out the window and use common sense instead" approach is the right one. If both parties accept to not follow these rules for one reason or another ( so if MF9k would´ve allowed GC to have more timne) then that´s alright but to "cry about" MF9Ks decision to follow the rules instead is stupid. Why have rules to begin with if you don´t want anyone to follow them?[/quote]
Aww, look at you, you probably play Lawful Good characters in D&D.
But there are rules for a reason, and i don´t think the "let´s throw those rules out the window and use common sense instead" approach is the right one. If both parties accept to not follow these rules for one reason or another ( so if MF9k would´ve allowed GC to have more timne) then that´s alright but to "cry about" MF9Ks decision to follow the rules instead is stupid. Why have rules to begin with if you don´t want anyone to follow them?[/quote]
Aww, look at you, you probably play Lawful Good characters in D&D.
Ploxo shut up
He's right, UGC needs to update their rules.
Ploxo shut up
He's right, UGC needs to update their rules.
He's right, UGC needs to update their rules.
blinKHow about you stop crying about the rules and just use some common sense and show some sportsmanship. Last season in esea open finals we didn't have to wait 2 hours for seanbud to fix his client. We did anyway because it was the fair thing to do, then we still had to reschedule. We also lost the reschedule. But that's what you have to do in the finals. Nobody wants to win or lose on a technicality like that, especially in a championship game, it's just stupid and not what we play for. We play for the fun in competition.
Sportsmanship is kind of out the window here, both teams already showed that they don't really have any sportsmanship, mf9k is just more public because their match got casted and its the semifinals.
[quote=blinK]How about you stop crying about the rules and just use some common sense and show some sportsmanship. Last season in esea open finals we didn't have to wait 2 hours for seanbud to fix his client. We did anyway because it was the fair thing to do, then we still had to reschedule. We also lost the reschedule. But that's what you have to do in the finals. Nobody wants to win or lose on a technicality like that, especially in a championship game, it's just stupid and not what we play for. We play for the fun in competition.[/quote]
Sportsmanship is kind of out the window here, both teams already showed that they don't really have any sportsmanship, mf9k is just more public because their match got casted and its the semifinals.
Sportsmanship is kind of out the window here, both teams already showed that they don't really have any sportsmanship, mf9k is just more public because their match got casted and its the semifinals.
Admins in any organization need to be very wary of taking action because what they do sets a precedent. Every decision they make, if they're not careful, affects the interpretation of every similar rule and situation. For example, what happened here seems to show that if any UGC team in any league is down a player they are allowed to force the rescheduling of the game even if the other team doesn't agree to it. If they drop a player in the middle of a match (for whatever reason whether it be a fire alarm or even a modem being unplugged because there's no way to tell the difference if the team decides to lie about it), they can get the results of that match overturned.
It's because of issues that arise from such precedent that you can't simply say that "common sense" and "sportsmanship" should preempt the rules. As the competitive scene gets bigger, there are just too many people who are going to take advantage of any loopholes they can take advantage of.
Many organizations tackle this problem in one of two ways, they either: make the rules more explicit to close as many loopholes as possible OR they make the rules vague so the admins' interpretations have a stronger stance and precedent is limited to very specific cases. The problem UGC is facing in this situation is that they are trying to do both and it's conflicting eachother.
Perhaps in the next season they can revise the sportsmanship clause to say something along the lines of:
When a team cannot compete fairly due to immediate and extenuating circumstances, the game may be postponed or delayed so long as it is agreed upon by both teams. If an agreement between teams cannot be met, then a UGC administrator must be contacted immediately to resolve the dispute. Failure to attempt to contact an administrator before (or within X hours after) the scheduled game concludes is tacit approval of the situation.
Using vague terms such as "immediate and extenuating circumstances" gives the UGC admin plenty of room for interpretation while making it very hard for one admin's decision to completely overturn the rule. Hopefully UGC will take the situation very seriously and change the rules to be more accommodating to problems for next season.
Admins in any organization need to be very wary of taking action because what they do sets a precedent. Every decision they make, if they're not careful, affects the interpretation of every similar rule and situation. For example, what happened here seems to show that if any UGC team in any league is down a player they are allowed to force the rescheduling of the game even if the other team doesn't agree to it. If they drop a player in the middle of a match (for whatever reason whether it be a fire alarm or even a modem being unplugged because there's no way to tell the difference if the team decides to lie about it), they can get the results of that match overturned.
It's because of issues that arise from such precedent that you can't simply say that "common sense" and "sportsmanship" should preempt the rules. As the competitive scene gets bigger, there are just too many people who are going to take advantage of any loopholes they can take advantage of.
Many organizations tackle this problem in one of two ways, they either: make the rules more explicit to close as many loopholes as possible OR they make the rules vague so the admins' interpretations have a stronger stance and precedent is limited to very specific cases. The problem UGC is facing in this situation is that they are trying to do both and it's conflicting eachother.
Perhaps in the next season they can revise the sportsmanship clause to say something along the lines of:
[quote]When a team cannot compete fairly due to immediate and extenuating circumstances, the game may be postponed or delayed so long as it is agreed upon by both teams. If an agreement between teams cannot be met, then a UGC administrator must be contacted immediately to resolve the dispute. Failure to attempt to contact an administrator before (or within X hours after) the scheduled game concludes is tacit approval of the situation.[/quote]
Using vague terms such as "immediate and extenuating circumstances" gives the UGC admin plenty of room for interpretation while making it very hard for one admin's decision to completely overturn the rule. Hopefully UGC will take the situation very seriously and change the rules to be more accommodating to problems for next season.
It's because of issues that arise from such precedent that you can't simply say that "common sense" and "sportsmanship" should preempt the rules. As the competitive scene gets bigger, there are just too many people who are going to take advantage of any loopholes they can take advantage of.
Many organizations tackle this problem in one of two ways, they either: make the rules more explicit to close as many loopholes as possible OR they make the rules vague so the admins' interpretations have a stronger stance and precedent is limited to very specific cases. The problem UGC is facing in this situation is that they are trying to do both and it's conflicting eachother.
Perhaps in the next season they can revise the sportsmanship clause to say something along the lines of:
[quote]When a team cannot compete fairly due to immediate and extenuating circumstances, the game may be postponed or delayed so long as it is agreed upon by both teams. If an agreement between teams cannot be met, then a UGC administrator must be contacted immediately to resolve the dispute. Failure to attempt to contact an administrator before (or within X hours after) the scheduled game concludes is tacit approval of the situation.[/quote]
Using vague terms such as "immediate and extenuating circumstances" gives the UGC admin plenty of room for interpretation while making it very hard for one admin's decision to completely overturn the rule. Hopefully UGC will take the situation very seriously and change the rules to be more accommodating to problems for next season.
I'd just like to say that I'm really exited for the match, as high plat got SUPER competitive and close this season.
I'd just like to say that I'm really exited for the match, as high plat got SUPER competitive and close this season.
CrayboffFor example, what happened here seems to show that if any UGC team in any league is down a player they are allowed to force the rescheduling of the game even if the other team doesn't agree to it. If they drop a player in the middle of a match (for whatever reason whether it be a fire alarm or even a modem being unplugged because there's no way to tell the difference if the team decides to lie about it), they can get the results of that match overturned.
I don't understand this line of thinking. If a team has a player drop, you're not contacting admins to reschedule the match. You're getting on your Friend's List, looking for your rostered backups, and getting them ready to hop in if the lost player doesn't come back along with any roster shuffling. Why do people expect this to happen in say UGC Silver for a regular season matchup? It's not like Gentlemen's Club sat there and ended up playing 9 vs. 8 on purpose, they went out and grabbed any of their available backups and went from there.
[quote=Crayboff]For example, what happened here seems to show that if any UGC team in any league is down a player they are allowed to force the rescheduling of the game even if the other team doesn't agree to it. If they drop a player in the middle of a match (for whatever reason whether it be a fire alarm or even a modem being unplugged because there's no way to tell the difference if the team decides to lie about it), they can get the results of that match overturned.
[/quote]
I don't understand this line of thinking. If a team has a player drop, you're not contacting admins to reschedule the match. You're getting on your Friend's List, looking for your rostered backups, and getting them ready to hop in if the lost player doesn't come back along with any roster shuffling. Why do people expect this to happen in say UGC Silver for a regular season matchup? It's not like Gentlemen's Club sat there and ended up playing 9 vs. 8 on purpose, they went out and grabbed any of their available backups and went from there.
[/quote]
I don't understand this line of thinking. If a team has a player drop, you're not contacting admins to reschedule the match. You're getting on your Friend's List, looking for your rostered backups, and getting them ready to hop in if the lost player doesn't come back along with any roster shuffling. Why do people expect this to happen in say UGC Silver for a regular season matchup? It's not like Gentlemen's Club sat there and ended up playing 9 vs. 8 on purpose, they went out and grabbed any of their available backups and went from there.
LunchboxCrayboffFor example, what happened here seems to show that if any UGC team in any league is down a player they are allowed to force the rescheduling of the game even if the other team doesn't agree to it. If they drop a player in the middle of a match (for whatever reason whether it be a fire alarm or even a modem being unplugged because there's no way to tell the difference if the team decides to lie about it), they can get the results of that match overturned.
I don't understand this line of thinking. If a team has a player drop, you're not contacting admins to reschedule the match. You're getting on your Friend's List, looking for your rostered backups, and getting them ready to hop in if the lost player doesn't come back along with any roster shuffling. Why do people expect this to happen in say UGC Silver for a regular season matchup? It's not like Gentlemen's Club sat there and ended up playing 9 vs. 8 on purpose, they went out and grabbed any of their available backups and went from there.
Well the portion you quoted was discussing potential abuse that somebody in some league would inevitably take advantage of maliciously. If your confusion is with my recommendation that a team contact an admin immediately during the game instead of looking for replacements, then perhaps they should be required to make an attempt to contact an admin within 1 hour after the scheduled game has concluded.
Regardless everyone should be required to follow the same policy as everyone else from UGC Iron to Platinum unless variations are explicitly stated in the rules. Rules are only useful if they are predictable.
[quote=Lunchbox][quote=Crayboff]For example, what happened here seems to show that if any UGC team in any league is down a player they are allowed to force the rescheduling of the game even if the other team doesn't agree to it. If they drop a player in the middle of a match (for whatever reason whether it be a fire alarm or even a modem being unplugged because there's no way to tell the difference if the team decides to lie about it), they can get the results of that match overturned.
[/quote]
I don't understand this line of thinking. If a team has a player drop, you're not contacting admins to reschedule the match. You're getting on your Friend's List, looking for your rostered backups, and getting them ready to hop in if the lost player doesn't come back along with any roster shuffling. Why do people expect this to happen in say UGC Silver for a regular season matchup? It's not like Gentlemen's Club sat there and ended up playing 9 vs. 8 on purpose, they went out and grabbed any of their available backups and went from there.[/quote]
Well the portion you quoted was discussing potential abuse that somebody in some league would inevitably take advantage of maliciously. If your confusion is with my recommendation that a team contact an admin immediately during the game instead of looking for replacements, then perhaps they should be required to make an attempt to contact an admin within 1 hour after the scheduled game has concluded.
Regardless everyone should be required to follow the same policy as everyone else from UGC Iron to Platinum unless variations are explicitly stated in the rules. Rules are only useful if they are predictable.
[/quote]
I don't understand this line of thinking. If a team has a player drop, you're not contacting admins to reschedule the match. You're getting on your Friend's List, looking for your rostered backups, and getting them ready to hop in if the lost player doesn't come back along with any roster shuffling. Why do people expect this to happen in say UGC Silver for a regular season matchup? It's not like Gentlemen's Club sat there and ended up playing 9 vs. 8 on purpose, they went out and grabbed any of their available backups and went from there.[/quote]
Well the portion you quoted was discussing potential abuse that somebody in some league would inevitably take advantage of maliciously. If your confusion is with my recommendation that a team contact an admin immediately during the game instead of looking for replacements, then perhaps they should be required to make an attempt to contact an admin within 1 hour after the scheduled game has concluded.
Regardless everyone should be required to follow the same policy as everyone else from UGC Iron to Platinum unless variations are explicitly stated in the rules. Rules are only useful if they are predictable.
Does anyone know when the rematch is happening and if anyone is streaming it?
Does anyone know when the rematch is happening and if anyone is streaming it?
LKincheloeShould be tonight around 9pm EDT on eXtv.
It's 9 and not a peep from the stream or twitter :/
Edit: Allegedly it's at 9:30 at http://www.twitch.tv/extvesports
[quote=LKincheloe]Should be tonight around 9pm EDT on eXtv.[/quote]
It's 9 and not a peep from the stream or twitter :/
Edit: Allegedly it's at 9:30 at http://www.twitch.tv/extvesports
It's 9 and not a peep from the stream or twitter :/
Edit: Allegedly it's at 9:30 at http://www.twitch.tv/extvesports
mf9k looked like a silver team, that was painful to watch
mf9k looked like a silver team, that was painful to watch
For the love of everything Holy, DO NOT TURN OFF YOUR SERVER IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING YOUR MATCH.
For the love of everything Holy, DO NOT TURN OFF YOUR SERVER IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING YOUR MATCH.
Rules are very important for the regular season to keep it moving and organized. But in playoffs or more importantly the grand finals?! Come on. It's the last game of the season with prizes on the line. Let them play fair and square and the best team wins. That's what the community wants to see, and as competitors that's what we SHOULD want to have happen. Our best vs your best. Put on a show! I had the option to ffw budsquad last season but I chose to do the right thing (common sense). The same should be done here. I don't usually watch highlander but i'm definitely going to scope this rematch out. GL to both teams!
God it makes me sick to get +fragged, please -frag me.
Rules are very important for the regular season to keep it moving and organized. But in playoffs or more importantly the grand finals?! Come on. It's the last game of the season with prizes on the line. Let them play fair and square and the best team wins. That's what the community wants to see, and as competitors that's what we SHOULD want to have happen. Our best vs your best. Put on a show! I had the option to ffw budsquad last season but I chose to do the right thing (common sense). The same should be done here. I don't usually watch highlander but i'm definitely going to scope this rematch out. GL to both teams!
God it makes me sick to get +fragged, please -frag me.
God it makes me sick to get +fragged, please -frag me.
It was pretty bad...
First game was a really good one that was pretty close. The only mark on it was the whole ringer incident. Total roll
It was pretty bad...
First game was a really good one that was pretty close. The only mark on it was the whole ringer incident. Total roll
First game was a really good one that was pretty close. The only mark on it was the whole ringer incident. Total roll
Thought mf9k would be pumped and ready. They must have forgot to eat their Wheaties.
Thought mf9k would be pumped and ready. They must have forgot to eat their Wheaties.
GC cleaned house. Here are the SS: http://sizzlingstats.com/stats/196226
blinKRules are very important for the regular season to keep it moving and organized, but in playoffs, more importantly the grand finals?! Come on. It's the last game of the season with prizes on the line. Let them play fair and square and the best team wins. That's what the community wants to see, and as competitors that's what we SHOULD want to have happen. Our best vs your best. I had the option to ffw budsquad last season but I chose to do the right thing (common sense). The same should be done here. I don't usually watch highlander but i'm definitely going to scope this rematch out. GL to both teams!
Rules mean nothing if they are not reliable regardless of the situation. Just because you're a nice guy doesn't mean that people must be nicer than the rules require. What should have happened was the rules being enforced as written. What should happen is for the rules to change to allow for sportsmanship and "common sense" as you've defined it, to play a bigger role. It seems your anger is more targeted towards the rules themselves as opposed to MF9K which I think is a shared feeling in this thread.
GC cleaned house. Here are the SS: http://sizzlingstats.com/stats/196226
[quote=blinK]Rules are very important for the regular season to keep it moving and organized, but in playoffs, more importantly the grand finals?! Come on. It's the last game of the season with prizes on the line. Let them play fair and square and the best team wins. That's what the community wants to see, and as competitors that's what we SHOULD want to have happen. Our best vs your best. I had the option to ffw budsquad last season but I chose to do the right thing (common sense). The same should be done here. I don't usually watch highlander but i'm definitely going to scope this rematch out. GL to both teams![/quote]
Rules mean nothing if they are not reliable regardless of the situation. Just because you're a nice guy doesn't mean that people must be nicer than the rules require. What should have happened was the rules being enforced as written. What should happen is for the rules to change to allow for sportsmanship and "common sense" as you've defined it, to play a bigger role. It seems your anger is more targeted towards the rules themselves as opposed to MF9K which I think is a shared feeling in this thread.
[quote=blinK]Rules are very important for the regular season to keep it moving and organized, but in playoffs, more importantly the grand finals?! Come on. It's the last game of the season with prizes on the line. Let them play fair and square and the best team wins. That's what the community wants to see, and as competitors that's what we SHOULD want to have happen. Our best vs your best. I had the option to ffw budsquad last season but I chose to do the right thing (common sense). The same should be done here. I don't usually watch highlander but i'm definitely going to scope this rematch out. GL to both teams![/quote]
Rules mean nothing if they are not reliable regardless of the situation. Just because you're a nice guy doesn't mean that people must be nicer than the rules require. What should have happened was the rules being enforced as written. What should happen is for the rules to change to allow for sportsmanship and "common sense" as you've defined it, to play a bigger role. It seems your anger is more targeted towards the rules themselves as opposed to MF9K which I think is a shared feeling in this thread.
Can someone explain what happened when the match just ended?
Can someone explain what happened when the match just ended?
ClementineStarsCan someone explain what happened when the match just ended?
Apparently eXtv is on their own spectator stream delay presumably to prevent ghosting or other shenanigans. The server was shut down immediately after the round ended so eXtv's stream cut before the casters and audience were able to see the conclusion. So to the players everything was fine and dandy, but the casters and us were left with an abrupt conclusion.
GC did win with that final push however.
[quote=ClementineStars]Can someone explain what happened when the match just ended?[/quote]
Apparently eXtv is on their own spectator stream delay presumably to prevent ghosting or other shenanigans. The server was shut down immediately after the round ended so eXtv's stream cut before the casters and audience were able to see the conclusion. So to the players everything was fine and dandy, but the casters and us were left with an abrupt conclusion.
GC did win with that final push however.
Apparently eXtv is on their own spectator stream delay presumably to prevent ghosting or other shenanigans. The server was shut down immediately after the round ended so eXtv's stream cut before the casters and audience were able to see the conclusion. So to the players everything was fine and dandy, but the casters and us were left with an abrupt conclusion.
GC did win with that final push however.
Here's the VOD: http://www.twitch.tv/extvesports/b/519696286
Here's the VOD: http://www.twitch.tv/extvesports/b/519696286
Why is tv_delaymapchange 1 not standard in every server config? One of the most disappointing ways to end a cast.
Why is tv_delaymapchange 1 not standard in every server config? One of the most disappointing ways to end a cast.
mr64bitWhy is tv_delaymapchange 1 not standard in every server config? One of the most disappointing ways to end a cast.
That doesn't help for a server shutdown.
[quote=mr64bit]Why is tv_delaymapchange 1 not standard in every server config? One of the most disappointing ways to end a cast.[/quote]
That doesn't help for a server shutdown.
That doesn't help for a server shutdown.
I wish UGC had the balls to stick by their rules, they basically admitted they were not good enough by letting this rematch happen so if they don't change them for next season, it'd be a credibility disaster.
I wish UGC had the balls to stick by their rules, they basically admitted they were not good enough by letting this rematch happen so if they don't change them for next season, it'd be a credibility disaster.
The worse precedent to set would be to start using the rules, somewhat arbitrarily written to prevent abuse, to fuck over your opponents. We'd have so many easy forfeit wins for not starting within 15 minutes of default time it'd be fucking ridiculous. By the way I'm pretty sure the admins have forced games to be played in that circumstance many times, so this decision isn't exactly without precedent itself.
The decision for the rematch should have just been an executive decision and left at that. Just say "we weren't happy with the decisions by players and the way things went in our highest division that is supposed to set the example of fairplay and sportsmanship." I'm happy the rematch happened because now clearly the better team won on even ground. Good on admins for enforcing fair play over a clear attempt to gain an unfair advantage in an important match.
The worse precedent to set would be to start using the rules, somewhat arbitrarily written to prevent abuse, to fuck over your opponents. We'd have so many easy forfeit wins for not starting within 15 minutes of default time it'd be fucking ridiculous. By the way I'm pretty sure the admins have forced games to be played in that circumstance many times, so this decision isn't exactly without precedent itself.
The decision for the rematch should have just been an executive decision and left at that. Just say "we weren't happy with the decisions by players and the way things went in our highest division that is supposed to set the example of fairplay and sportsmanship." I'm happy the rematch happened because now clearly the better team won on even ground. Good on admins for enforcing fair play over a clear attempt to gain an unfair advantage in an important match.
The decision for the rematch should have just been an executive decision and left at that. Just say "we weren't happy with the decisions by players and the way things went in our highest division that is supposed to set the example of fairplay and sportsmanship." I'm happy the rematch happened because now clearly the better team won on even ground. Good on admins for enforcing fair play over a clear attempt to gain an unfair advantage in an important match.
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