cool to voice act people's trauma and then ignore them when they tell you to not do that. surely this is actually about advocating for positive change and not a weird temper tantrum
pedo thread
posted in
TF2 General Discussion
cool to voice act people's trauma and then ignore them when they tell you to not do that. surely this is actually about advocating for positive change and not a weird temper tantrum
rentshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dYetxViIoA
video sucks dick, is a low a effort slopumentary, and couldn't even bother giving a timeline because the hit-piece would have had a lot less impact if he bothered mentioning some of this shit happened damn near a decade ago
[quote=rents][youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dYetxViIoA[/youtube][/quote]
video sucks dick, is a low a effort slopumentary, and couldn't even bother giving a timeline because the hit-piece would have had a lot less impact if he bothered mentioning some of this shit happened damn near a decade ago
video sucks dick, is a low a effort slopumentary, and couldn't even bother giving a timeline because the hit-piece would have had a lot less impact if he bothered mentioning some of this shit happened damn near a decade ago
you used to be able to stand on top of the buildings on granary mid. now people make youtube videos
you used to be able to stand on top of the buildings on granary mid. now people make youtube videos
To preface, I am both the administrator of a competitive TF2 league and I was an RGL admin for a single season.
I will split this lengthy response into two main sections. The first will address the specific issues with this video, and the second will dispel the myth that TF2 is uniquely awful with respect to the players in the community. I acknowledge this is a HUGE word salad, but after a few days and seeing what has been said, I feel as though I cannot sit by. While bliztank's video provides some decent cover, it is rather incoherent, and he is on the verge of tears throughout. I will attempt to detail my thoughts in a more coherent fashion.
TLDR - Dogshit video. Every. Single. One. of these players who brought up are either permabanned or fully cut out of the community. Even the players who received no/shorter bans are still known for those actions, and there is a stigma surrounding them. As of 10/21/26, the title of the video is "Why TF2's E-Sports Scene Harbors P3dophiles...". Merriam-Webster defines the verb of harbor as "to give shelter or refuge to" with the literary example of "harboring a fugitive". This would then suggest that the competitive TF2 scene gives refuge and shelter to such players - despite his own video showing that most players are permabanned and ostracized from the community. I am unsure how you can use that term in the title when not a single one of those players is given shelter or refuge by the community after being exposed, and the entire community usually immediately supports a player's exodus after such allegations are brought forward.
The Video Itself
What an absolute NOTHING burger. This video brings up no new information, doesn't do anything to protect new players, and trivializes the harm the victims faced by A) having voice actors narrate over their messages, and B) dredging up the past and forcing many of the victims to relive some of the trauma they already endured. This is nothing more than monetizing and capitalizing on the suffering of others for some clicks (see Dan Gilroy's Nightcrawler for a good depiction of how people can profit off exploitation). The video ends with a call to action, suggesting viewers message ETF2L and RGL and that he hopes there will be positive change - but what was actually identified in the video that was wrong?
1. Vague Ban Reasons
Detailed ban reasons for Retrodavid, Broking, and Nursey were indeed changed to a more generic reason, and the bans going forward were very generic. The video suggests this is maliciously done on the part of RGL to downplay what happened and make it seem like there are fewer predators. There is literally no evidence to support his view other than his gut feeling/vibe. Contrary to his baseless assertion, and as many have rightfully pointed out here, this is because RGL is rightfully concerned with getting into legal trouble for defamation.
I no longer have access to the conversation, but I can say with 100% certainty that a few years back I was discussing with someone senior at RGL (either exa or sigafoo) specifically about the legal issues with the ban descriptions because RGL had been threatened with a lawsuit over it by a banned player. While I cannot recall the exact specifics (who the banned player was, the specific threat), this was 100% something that happened - despite the legal threats being empty. RGL still has an article up from when the original bans came out that spells out in explicit language what Nursey, Viper, Broking, and Retrodavid were being banned for. He also nitpicks the same issue with the wording for Gwendolyn's ban (see above for why), and Plaidinum. Regarding Plaidinum, he is just being pedantic - sure, RGL could have put the exact charges since there are no defamation concerns, but that's really where we are going to hang our hat? Should the ban read Banned for Violating GA Code § 16-12-100 - Sexual Exploitation of Children? Instead of asking RGL why they write their bans like that, he simply made an unfounded assertion of malfeasance off of the vibes.
2. Sempar + Maggie
First, he brings up the example of Sempar only receiving an 8-month ban. While I am unfamiliar with the specifics of this case, he provides a screenshot from exa discussing how the admins could not verify that Sempar knew the age of the individual. Regardless, Sempar did not get off scot-free, and sure while this case could have been handled better maybe, this is the exception, not the rule. The vast majority of players get permabanned for such behavior, and there are bound to be issues with inconsistent/unclear evidence. To use this one example, when there are dozens to the contrary is foolish. Next, he talks about Peanut Poker Man. I am unsure about the specifics of this case, but there is no evidence in the video that anything was reported to RGL, and there are no TFTV threads about it. Perhaps something was reported to RGL, in which case we go back to Sempar to see that perhaps there was tricky evidence, or it was hard to prove what actually happened.
He brings up Maggie, and how when players were confronting Maggie in the Discord, Mothership was shutting the conversation down, and that Mothership was never punished for this. I am unsure what his point here is. Everyone who was around during the time that Mothership oversaw the forums and Discord knows just how cringe they were and how strict they took that silly computer position, but this does not suggest that RGL was trying to cover stuff up; it was just a Discord mod doing Discord mod things (being cringe and taking their job WAY too seriously). Maggie ended up getting a permaban, and the video suggests that maggie’s ban was only given more explicit reasons due to community pressure. This is odd considering there are WAY more players (Nursey) who have had far more public pressure against them, yet RGL still keeps the generic ban reason. We all know that leagues always respond to public pressure, but Maggie was always going to get banned, and mothership being cringe does not show that there was an attempt to “cover it up”.
3. Exa and the mod team
What is there to say on this point. He makes an unfounded assertion that there is a culture of cover-ups at the top of the league and that top level staff are the problem. Once again, this is a silly statement. The VAST SUPERMAJORITY of problematic players are permabanned, and the few examples given above where there was no ban/a short ban, there are usually mitigating circumstances (exceptions not rule). There is almost a seven-year gap in between the earliest cases in the video and the most recent. There has been tremendous turnover at RGL in that time, with basically every “top-level staff member, " with the exception of Exa, having turned over. To suggest they are all involved in some cover-up for players they don’t know, and have no reason to support (with no actual proof, other than casual connections) is frankly absurd. But we all knew that.
4. ETF2L Stuff
Also a nothing burger. VOLUNTEER Admins bungled a ban first time around, got called out, apologized and permabanned the player. The ETF2L statement does a great job of explaining what went wrong, and how they will fix it. This is not to say that ETF2L conducted themselves amazingly here, but to imply that there was a cover-up or an attempt to sweep Aiko’s actions under the rug is also refuted by the evidence. They made a mistake and fixed it after public pressure (like the most common thing ever - see the pushback and ultimate bankruptcy of Flock Cameras to see just how common it is).
[u]To preface, I am both the administrator of a competitive TF2 league and I was an RGL admin for a single season. [/u]
I will split this lengthy response into two main sections. The first will address the specific issues with this video, and the second will dispel the myth that TF2 is uniquely awful with respect to the players in the community. I acknowledge this is a [b]HUGE[/b] word salad, but after a few days and seeing what has been said, I feel as though I cannot sit by. While bliztank's [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqMIVxyOCwo]video[/url] provides some decent cover, it is rather incoherent, and he is on the verge of tears throughout. I will attempt to detail my thoughts in a more coherent fashion.
[b]TLDR[/b] - Dogshit video. Every. Single. One. of these players who brought up are either [b]permabanned[/b] or fully cut out of the community. Even the players who received no/shorter bans are still known for those actions, and there is a stigma surrounding them. As of 10/21/26, the title of the video is "Why TF2's E-Sports Scene Harbors P3dophiles...". Merriam-Webster [url=(https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/harbor]defines[/url] the verb of harbor as "[i]to give shelter or refuge to[/i]" with the literary example of "[i]harboring a fugitive[/i]". This would then suggest that the competitive TF2 scene gives refuge and shelter to such players - [u]despite his own video showing that most players are permabanned and ostracized from the community[/u]. I am unsure how you can use that term in the title when not a single one of those players is given shelter or refuge by the community after being exposed, and the entire community usually immediately supports a player's exodus after such allegations are brought forward.
[b]The Video Itself[/b]
What an absolute NOTHING burger. This video brings up no new information, doesn't do anything to protect new players, and trivializes the harm the victims faced by A) having voice actors narrate over their messages, and B) dredging up the past and forcing many of the victims to relive some of the trauma they already endured. This is nothing more than monetizing and capitalizing on the suffering of others for some clicks (see Dan Gilroy's [i]Nightcrawler[/i] for a good depiction of how people can profit off exploitation). The video ends with a call to action, suggesting viewers message ETF2L and RGL and that he hopes there will be positive change - but what was actually identified in the video that was wrong?
[u]1. Vague Ban Reasons[/u]
Detailed ban reasons for Retrodavid, Broking, and Nursey were indeed changed to a more generic reason, and the bans going forward were very generic. The video suggests this is maliciously done on the part of RGL to downplay what happened and make it seem like there are fewer predators. There is literally no evidence to support his view other than his gut feeling/vibe. Contrary to his baseless assertion, and as many have rightfully pointed out here, this is because RGL is rightfully concerned with getting into legal trouble for defamation.
I no longer have access to the conversation, but I can say with 100% certainty that a few years back I was discussing with someone senior at RGL (either exa or sigafoo) specifically about the legal issues with the ban descriptions because RGL had been threatened with a lawsuit over it by a banned player. While I cannot recall the exact specifics (who the banned player was, the specific threat), this was 100% something that happened - despite the legal threats being empty. RGL still has an [url=https://rgl.gg/Public/Articles/Default?r=40&a=1306]article up[/url] from when the original bans came out that spells out in explicit language what Nursey, Viper, Broking, and Retrodavid were being banned for. He also nitpicks the same issue with the wording for Gwendolyn's ban (see above for why), and Plaidinum. Regarding Plaidinum, he is just being pedantic - sure, RGL could have put the exact charges since there are no defamation concerns, but that's really where we are going to hang our hat? Should the ban read Banned for Violating GA Code § 16-12-100 - Sexual Exploitation of Children? Instead of asking RGL why they write their bans like that, he simply made an unfounded assertion of malfeasance off of the vibes.
[u]2. Sempar + Maggie[/u]
First, he brings up the example of Sempar only receiving an 8-month ban. While I am unfamiliar with the specifics of this case, he provides a screenshot from exa discussing how the admins could not verify that Sempar knew the age of the individual. Regardless, Sempar did not get off scot-free, and sure while this case could have been handled better maybe, this is the exception, not the rule. The vast majority of players get permabanned for such behavior, and there are bound to be issues with inconsistent/unclear evidence. To use this one example, when there are dozens to the contrary is foolish. Next, he talks about Peanut Poker Man. I am unsure about the specifics of this case, but there is no evidence in the video that anything was reported to RGL, and there are no TFTV threads about it. Perhaps something was reported to RGL, in which case we go back to Sempar to see that perhaps there was tricky evidence, or it was hard to prove what actually happened.
He brings up Maggie, and how when players were confronting Maggie in the Discord, Mothership was shutting the conversation down, and that Mothership was never punished for this. I am unsure what his point here is. Everyone who was around during the time that Mothership oversaw the forums and Discord knows just how cringe they were and how strict they took that silly computer position, but this does not suggest that RGL was trying to cover stuff up; it was just a Discord mod doing Discord mod things (being cringe and taking their job [b]WAY[/b] too seriously). Maggie ended up getting a permaban, and the video suggests that maggie’s ban was only given more explicit reasons due to community pressure. This is odd considering there are [b]WAY[/b] more players (Nursey) who have had far more public pressure against them, yet RGL still keeps the generic ban reason. We all know that leagues always respond to public pressure, but Maggie was always going to get banned, and mothership being cringe does not show that there was an attempt to “cover it up”.
[u]3. Exa and the mod team[/u]
What is there to say on this point. He makes an unfounded assertion that there is a culture of cover-ups at the top of the league and that top level staff are the problem. Once again, this is a silly statement. The VAST SUPERMAJORITY of problematic players are permabanned, and the few examples given above where there was no ban/a short ban, there are usually mitigating circumstances (exceptions not rule). There is almost a seven-year gap in between the earliest cases in the video and the most recent. There has been tremendous turnover at RGL in that time, with basically every “top-level staff member, " with the exception of Exa, having turned over. To suggest they are all involved in some cover-up for players they don’t know, and have no reason to support (with no actual proof, other than casual connections) is frankly absurd. But we all knew that.
[u]4. ETF2L Stuff[/u]
Also a nothing burger. VOLUNTEER Admins bungled a ban first time around, got called out, apologized and permabanned the player. The ETF2L [url=https://etf2l.org/2025/12/21/addressing-recent-events/]statement [/url]does a great job of explaining what went wrong, and how they will fix it. This is not to say that ETF2L conducted themselves amazingly here, but to imply that there was a cover-up or an attempt to sweep Aiko’s actions under the rug is also refuted by the evidence. They made a mistake and fixed it after public pressure (like the most common thing ever - see the pushback and ultimate bankruptcy of Flock Cameras to see just how common it is).
I will split this lengthy response into two main sections. The first will address the specific issues with this video, and the second will dispel the myth that TF2 is uniquely awful with respect to the players in the community. I acknowledge this is a [b]HUGE[/b] word salad, but after a few days and seeing what has been said, I feel as though I cannot sit by. While bliztank's [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqMIVxyOCwo]video[/url] provides some decent cover, it is rather incoherent, and he is on the verge of tears throughout. I will attempt to detail my thoughts in a more coherent fashion.
[b]TLDR[/b] - Dogshit video. Every. Single. One. of these players who brought up are either [b]permabanned[/b] or fully cut out of the community. Even the players who received no/shorter bans are still known for those actions, and there is a stigma surrounding them. As of 10/21/26, the title of the video is "Why TF2's E-Sports Scene Harbors P3dophiles...". Merriam-Webster [url=(https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/harbor]defines[/url] the verb of harbor as "[i]to give shelter or refuge to[/i]" with the literary example of "[i]harboring a fugitive[/i]". This would then suggest that the competitive TF2 scene gives refuge and shelter to such players - [u]despite his own video showing that most players are permabanned and ostracized from the community[/u]. I am unsure how you can use that term in the title when not a single one of those players is given shelter or refuge by the community after being exposed, and the entire community usually immediately supports a player's exodus after such allegations are brought forward.
[b]The Video Itself[/b]
What an absolute NOTHING burger. This video brings up no new information, doesn't do anything to protect new players, and trivializes the harm the victims faced by A) having voice actors narrate over their messages, and B) dredging up the past and forcing many of the victims to relive some of the trauma they already endured. This is nothing more than monetizing and capitalizing on the suffering of others for some clicks (see Dan Gilroy's [i]Nightcrawler[/i] for a good depiction of how people can profit off exploitation). The video ends with a call to action, suggesting viewers message ETF2L and RGL and that he hopes there will be positive change - but what was actually identified in the video that was wrong?
[u]1. Vague Ban Reasons[/u]
Detailed ban reasons for Retrodavid, Broking, and Nursey were indeed changed to a more generic reason, and the bans going forward were very generic. The video suggests this is maliciously done on the part of RGL to downplay what happened and make it seem like there are fewer predators. There is literally no evidence to support his view other than his gut feeling/vibe. Contrary to his baseless assertion, and as many have rightfully pointed out here, this is because RGL is rightfully concerned with getting into legal trouble for defamation.
I no longer have access to the conversation, but I can say with 100% certainty that a few years back I was discussing with someone senior at RGL (either exa or sigafoo) specifically about the legal issues with the ban descriptions because RGL had been threatened with a lawsuit over it by a banned player. While I cannot recall the exact specifics (who the banned player was, the specific threat), this was 100% something that happened - despite the legal threats being empty. RGL still has an [url=https://rgl.gg/Public/Articles/Default?r=40&a=1306]article up[/url] from when the original bans came out that spells out in explicit language what Nursey, Viper, Broking, and Retrodavid were being banned for. He also nitpicks the same issue with the wording for Gwendolyn's ban (see above for why), and Plaidinum. Regarding Plaidinum, he is just being pedantic - sure, RGL could have put the exact charges since there are no defamation concerns, but that's really where we are going to hang our hat? Should the ban read Banned for Violating GA Code § 16-12-100 - Sexual Exploitation of Children? Instead of asking RGL why they write their bans like that, he simply made an unfounded assertion of malfeasance off of the vibes.
[u]2. Sempar + Maggie[/u]
First, he brings up the example of Sempar only receiving an 8-month ban. While I am unfamiliar with the specifics of this case, he provides a screenshot from exa discussing how the admins could not verify that Sempar knew the age of the individual. Regardless, Sempar did not get off scot-free, and sure while this case could have been handled better maybe, this is the exception, not the rule. The vast majority of players get permabanned for such behavior, and there are bound to be issues with inconsistent/unclear evidence. To use this one example, when there are dozens to the contrary is foolish. Next, he talks about Peanut Poker Man. I am unsure about the specifics of this case, but there is no evidence in the video that anything was reported to RGL, and there are no TFTV threads about it. Perhaps something was reported to RGL, in which case we go back to Sempar to see that perhaps there was tricky evidence, or it was hard to prove what actually happened.
He brings up Maggie, and how when players were confronting Maggie in the Discord, Mothership was shutting the conversation down, and that Mothership was never punished for this. I am unsure what his point here is. Everyone who was around during the time that Mothership oversaw the forums and Discord knows just how cringe they were and how strict they took that silly computer position, but this does not suggest that RGL was trying to cover stuff up; it was just a Discord mod doing Discord mod things (being cringe and taking their job [b]WAY[/b] too seriously). Maggie ended up getting a permaban, and the video suggests that maggie’s ban was only given more explicit reasons due to community pressure. This is odd considering there are [b]WAY[/b] more players (Nursey) who have had far more public pressure against them, yet RGL still keeps the generic ban reason. We all know that leagues always respond to public pressure, but Maggie was always going to get banned, and mothership being cringe does not show that there was an attempt to “cover it up”.
[u]3. Exa and the mod team[/u]
What is there to say on this point. He makes an unfounded assertion that there is a culture of cover-ups at the top of the league and that top level staff are the problem. Once again, this is a silly statement. The VAST SUPERMAJORITY of problematic players are permabanned, and the few examples given above where there was no ban/a short ban, there are usually mitigating circumstances (exceptions not rule). There is almost a seven-year gap in between the earliest cases in the video and the most recent. There has been tremendous turnover at RGL in that time, with basically every “top-level staff member, " with the exception of Exa, having turned over. To suggest they are all involved in some cover-up for players they don’t know, and have no reason to support (with no actual proof, other than casual connections) is frankly absurd. But we all knew that.
[u]4. ETF2L Stuff[/u]
Also a nothing burger. VOLUNTEER Admins bungled a ban first time around, got called out, apologized and permabanned the player. The ETF2L [url=https://etf2l.org/2025/12/21/addressing-recent-events/]statement [/url]does a great job of explaining what went wrong, and how they will fix it. This is not to say that ETF2L conducted themselves amazingly here, but to imply that there was a cover-up or an attempt to sweep Aiko’s actions under the rug is also refuted by the evidence. They made a mistake and fixed it after public pressure (like the most common thing ever - see the pushback and ultimate bankruptcy of Flock Cameras to see just how common it is).
It is clear to any informed viewer that this video provides nothing of value. It revictimizes many of the victims of these issues (who would never have guessed their trauma would be viewed by 10s of thousands, if not 100s of thousands of people). He never spoke to any of the admins for comment, and did not speak to most of the victims (if he spoke to any at all) before posting this. The video brings up a few examples of issues and mistakes made by the VOLUNTEER administrators, but by and large, those mistakes were ultimately fixed. The whole premise of the video is defeated by knowing that basically all of the problem players are permabanned and are completely cut out from the community. The insinuation that competitive TF2 harbors pedophiles is incorrect, not supported by any fact proffered in his video, and is easily debunked by looking at the countless threads in TFTV publicly shaming and shitting on those players.
The Stats
Taking a step back, there is some narrative being pushed that competitive TF2 is a uniquely tarnished place, where pedophiles thrive and exist alarmingly. While the number of players who engage in such behavior is terrible, it begs the question of whether the number is actually that bad given the size of the community. Please keep in mind there are not exact numbers
Looking at RGL’s most recent season, there were 624 players in HL, and another 643 in 6s. In ETF2L, there seem to be about 180 HL players and about 622 6s players (there were 30 people on both 6s and HL rosters - about 4%). So let’s assume about 1,267 players in RGL (with a 4% overlap like ETF2L that gets us 1,220 unique players) and about 765 unique players from ETF2L - for a total of 1,980 competitive players. Let’s assume there are a few hundred players who are missing from this list, who are not playing this season or are in other leagues, for a total of 2,200 competitive TF2 players at the moment.
I went through the UGC ban page and found 29 people who have been permabanned (By UGC and mirrored bans from ETF2L and RGL ) for gross misconduct. Let’s assume I’ve missed a few and go with 33 predators.
A rate of 33/2,200 is about 1.5%. Mind you, this uses bans from every era of competitive TF2 and uses the lower number of players now. Assuming larger player numbers in previous years, the rate can be as low as 1.1% or 0.66% (assuming 3,000 and 5,000 players, respectively).
There is a general consensus that it is hard to say for sure what portion of a population is pedophiles, but Michael Seto, writing in 2008, suggests the prevalence of pedophilia in the general population is about 5% (holy shit). Joyal & Carpentier (2017) suggest the rate of actual pedophilia (people who have actually acted on their attraction) is about 0.6%. Whitten et al. (2026), based on their research, show that about 4.6% of men surveyed have had sex or sexual contact with a minor since turning 18 (also holy shit).
Once again, there is a mismatch of time windows since the 33 bans span about 7 years, but 2,200 is one season’s total size. Further, the 0.6% are diagnosible/arrested individuals, and we know between 5-16% of children abused disclose it, and of that, only about 12% get reported to the authorities, suggesting the number of actual pedophiles is probably much higher than the 0.6% of diagnosed pedophiles.
So the TF2 rate of about 0.6-1.5% is…perfectly expected. It also does not help that online gaming spaces put minors and adults in extremely close proximity and foster an environment conducive to pedophilic behaviour (the nature of online communications makes grooming far easier, surrounding mental health factors common in gamers, etc.) In fact, it’s almost surprising how low the rate is, given the nature of competitive TF2.
Beyond this, TF2 is not unique in this problem. Super Smash Bros, Overwatch, Fortnite, Roblox, and the list goes on and on.
No community is perfect, and I have not seen anyone actually look into the numbers before. Fuck that YouTube video, man.
It is clear to any informed viewer that this video provides nothing of value. It revictimizes many of the victims of these issues (who would never have guessed their trauma would be viewed by 10s of thousands, if not 100s of thousands of people). He never spoke to any of the admins for comment, and did not speak to most of the victims (if he spoke to any at all) before posting this. The video brings up a few examples of issues and mistakes made by the VOLUNTEER administrators, but by and large, those mistakes were ultimately fixed. The whole premise of the video is defeated by knowing that basically all of the problem players are permabanned and are completely cut out from the community. The insinuation that competitive TF2 harbors pedophiles is incorrect, not supported by any fact proffered in his video, and is easily debunked by looking at the countless threads in TFTV publicly shaming and shitting on those players.
[b]The Stats[/b]
Taking a step back, there is some narrative being pushed that competitive TF2 is a uniquely tarnished place, where pedophiles thrive and exist alarmingly. While the number of players who engage in such behavior is terrible, it begs the question of whether the number is actually that bad given the size of the community. Please keep in mind there are not exact numbers
Looking at RGL’s most recent season, there were 624 players in HL, and another 643 in 6s. In ETF2L, there seem to be about 180 HL players and about 622 6s players (there were 30 people on both 6s and HL rosters - about 4%). So let’s assume about 1,267 players in RGL (with a 4% overlap like ETF2L that gets us 1,220 unique players) and about 765 unique players from ETF2L - for a total of 1,980 competitive players. Let’s assume there are a few hundred players who are missing from this list, who are not playing this season or are in other leagues, for a total of 2,200 competitive TF2 players at the moment.
I went through the UGC [url=https://web.archive.org/web/20260227012958/https://www.ugcleague.com/banlist_tf2.cfm]ban page [/url]and found 29 people who have been permabanned (By UGC and mirrored bans from ETF2L and RGL ) for gross misconduct. Let’s assume I’ve missed a few and go with 33 predators.
A rate of 33/2,200 is about 1.5%. Mind you, this uses bans from every era of competitive TF2 and uses the lower number of players now. Assuming larger player numbers in previous years, the rate can be as low as 1.1% or 0.66% (assuming 3,000 and 5,000 players, respectively).
There is a general consensus that it is hard to say for sure what portion of a population is pedophiles, but Michael Seto, [url=https://www.annualreviews.org/content/journals/10.1146/annurev.clinpsy.032408.153618]writing[/url] in 2008, suggests the prevalence of pedophilia in the general population is about 5% (holy shit). Joyal & Carpentier (2017) [url=https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26941021/]suggest[/url] the rate of actual pedophilia (people who have actually acted on their attraction) is about 0.6%. Whitten et al. (2026), based on their [url=https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/08862605251403602]research[/url], show that about 4.6% of men surveyed have had sex or sexual contact with a minor since turning 18 (also holy shit).
Once again, there is a mismatch of time windows since the 33 bans span about 7 years, but 2,200 is one season’s total size. Further, the 0.6% are diagnosible/arrested individuals, and we [url=https://icdv.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/2019_Sex_Offenders_101.pdf]know[/url] between 5-16% of children abused disclose it, and of that, only about 12% get reported to the authorities, suggesting the number of actual pedophiles is probably much higher than the 0.6% of diagnosed pedophiles.
So the TF2 rate of about 0.6-1.5% is…perfectly expected. It also does not help that online gaming spaces put minors and adults in extremely close proximity and foster an environment conducive to pedophilic behaviour (the nature of online communications makes grooming far easier, surrounding mental health factors common in gamers, etc.) In fact, it’s almost surprising how low the rate is, given the nature of competitive TF2.
Beyond this, TF2 is not unique in this problem. [url=https://www.ssbwiki.com/2020_Super_Smash_Bros._sexual_misconduct_allegations]Super Smash Bros[/url], [url=(https://www.ginx.tv/en/blizzard-employee-denies-allegations-of-sexual-misconduct-with-underage-girl]Overwatch[/url], [url=(https://www.foxnews.com/tech/fox-on-tech-predators-using-online-games-fbi-warns]Fortnite[/url], [url=https://www.malaymail.com/news/tech-gadgets/2026/04/22/australia-cracks-down-on-roblox-minecraft-over-child-safety-extremist-content-concerns/217270]Roblox[/url], and the list goes on and on.
No community is perfect, and I have not seen anyone actually look into the numbers before. Fuck that YouTube video, man.
[b]The Stats[/b]
Taking a step back, there is some narrative being pushed that competitive TF2 is a uniquely tarnished place, where pedophiles thrive and exist alarmingly. While the number of players who engage in such behavior is terrible, it begs the question of whether the number is actually that bad given the size of the community. Please keep in mind there are not exact numbers
Looking at RGL’s most recent season, there were 624 players in HL, and another 643 in 6s. In ETF2L, there seem to be about 180 HL players and about 622 6s players (there were 30 people on both 6s and HL rosters - about 4%). So let’s assume about 1,267 players in RGL (with a 4% overlap like ETF2L that gets us 1,220 unique players) and about 765 unique players from ETF2L - for a total of 1,980 competitive players. Let’s assume there are a few hundred players who are missing from this list, who are not playing this season or are in other leagues, for a total of 2,200 competitive TF2 players at the moment.
I went through the UGC [url=https://web.archive.org/web/20260227012958/https://www.ugcleague.com/banlist_tf2.cfm]ban page [/url]and found 29 people who have been permabanned (By UGC and mirrored bans from ETF2L and RGL ) for gross misconduct. Let’s assume I’ve missed a few and go with 33 predators.
A rate of 33/2,200 is about 1.5%. Mind you, this uses bans from every era of competitive TF2 and uses the lower number of players now. Assuming larger player numbers in previous years, the rate can be as low as 1.1% or 0.66% (assuming 3,000 and 5,000 players, respectively).
There is a general consensus that it is hard to say for sure what portion of a population is pedophiles, but Michael Seto, [url=https://www.annualreviews.org/content/journals/10.1146/annurev.clinpsy.032408.153618]writing[/url] in 2008, suggests the prevalence of pedophilia in the general population is about 5% (holy shit). Joyal & Carpentier (2017) [url=https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26941021/]suggest[/url] the rate of actual pedophilia (people who have actually acted on their attraction) is about 0.6%. Whitten et al. (2026), based on their [url=https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/08862605251403602]research[/url], show that about 4.6% of men surveyed have had sex or sexual contact with a minor since turning 18 (also holy shit).
Once again, there is a mismatch of time windows since the 33 bans span about 7 years, but 2,200 is one season’s total size. Further, the 0.6% are diagnosible/arrested individuals, and we [url=https://icdv.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/2019_Sex_Offenders_101.pdf]know[/url] between 5-16% of children abused disclose it, and of that, only about 12% get reported to the authorities, suggesting the number of actual pedophiles is probably much higher than the 0.6% of diagnosed pedophiles.
So the TF2 rate of about 0.6-1.5% is…perfectly expected. It also does not help that online gaming spaces put minors and adults in extremely close proximity and foster an environment conducive to pedophilic behaviour (the nature of online communications makes grooming far easier, surrounding mental health factors common in gamers, etc.) In fact, it’s almost surprising how low the rate is, given the nature of competitive TF2.
Beyond this, TF2 is not unique in this problem. [url=https://www.ssbwiki.com/2020_Super_Smash_Bros._sexual_misconduct_allegations]Super Smash Bros[/url], [url=(https://www.ginx.tv/en/blizzard-employee-denies-allegations-of-sexual-misconduct-with-underage-girl]Overwatch[/url], [url=(https://www.foxnews.com/tech/fox-on-tech-predators-using-online-games-fbi-warns]Fortnite[/url], [url=https://www.malaymail.com/news/tech-gadgets/2026/04/22/australia-cracks-down-on-roblox-minecraft-over-child-safety-extremist-content-concerns/217270]Roblox[/url], and the list goes on and on.
No community is perfect, and I have not seen anyone actually look into the numbers before. Fuck that YouTube video, man.
Thank you for writing up something as concrete and well researched as this, i need my time to recover from the comment sections at this point tbh as it's drawn all of my spare attention so I'm taking a mental health break on this topic myself; i hope the post gets the attention it deserves and helps clear the air to others and that we find other ways to bring awareness to it. Really good job Nick, and sorry for how scrambled my own video was.
Thank you for writing up something as concrete and well researched as this, i need my time to recover from the comment sections at this point tbh as it's drawn all of my spare attention so I'm taking a mental health break on this topic myself; i hope the post gets the attention it deserves and helps clear the air to others and that we find other ways to bring awareness to it. Really good job Nick, and sorry for how scrambled my own video was.
this is simply another retard that thinks they can profit from making bad youtube videos. fella didnt even put that much tf2 footage in the video... lmao??? why would you not supplement this entire video with tf2 clips? are you retarded? yes. this is such a pathetic attempt at a serious subject that you should be ashamed of yourself. you for some reason have the same cadence as that retard clavicular btw. that alone should make you reconsider your entire life.
this is simply another retard that thinks they can profit from making bad youtube videos. fella didnt even put that much tf2 footage in the video... lmao??? why would you not supplement this entire video with tf2 clips? are you retarded? yes. this is such a pathetic attempt at a serious subject that you should be ashamed of yourself. you for some reason have the same cadence as that retard clavicular btw. that alone should make you reconsider your entire life.
i love how we're basically throwing tomatoes at tooru and it's beautiful
i love how we're basically throwing tomatoes at tooru and it's beautiful
He really posted this like it was helping his case
[youtube]https://youtu.be/zc1dhHvxgEY[/youtube]
He really posted this like it was helping his case
He really posted this like it was helping his case
https://www.teamfortress.tv/66688/attention-all-pedos#1
I wanted to comment on this thread he posted a few weeks ago to say this was a really bad idea but that thread was locked for some reason
https://www.teamfortress.tv/66688/attention-all-pedos#1
I wanted to comment on this thread he posted a few weeks ago to say this was a really bad idea but that thread was locked for some reason
I wanted to comment on this thread he posted a few weeks ago to say this was a really bad idea but that thread was locked for some reason
Before this thread gets appropriately locked - I want to try and channel a little energy toward dealing with what I see as the real barriers to improving the speed and accuracy of TF2 league discipline.
I am saying this as not only a retired RGL admin/RC member - but also as the parent of a teenager who is very online. (I am not going to violate any confidentiality on any case here or talk about my own family and life).
As far as I can tell, few or none of the people talking about league discipline here actually experienced reviewing cases and deciding when/how to act and that doesn't invalidate their views, but please keep that in perspective.
The biggest issue by far is a lack of reporting. I have heard and seen many people complain heavily about league slowness or inaction on issues, but themselves never filed a report and seem oblivious to the idea that the league cannot act on what it does not know.
There's just this assumption that because some people talk about things in private discords, that league staff already know and the delay is just waiting for them to get around to it.
As volunteer-led, community leagues - almost all the incidents that made this video took place completely outside of any definition of 'on-platform' activities. They're in private discords and direct messaging or player's past/offline activities.
Leagues cannot see these things to act on unless a victim or someone who sees it takes the time and effort to document and report.
Dealing with these requires facts to be seen and understood. Without them, the leagues have a choice, just ban people based on opinions/innuendo or wait for judgement until facts and evidence come to light.
RGL has historically sat on the somewhat conservative side of needing to be pretty sure before banning a player, at least since well before I joined RC (way less than 'beyond a reasonable doubt' but a lot more than 'I heard XXX is a pedo'). People can and do report bullshit sometimes. There are people in this community that could have ended up in this bullshit video that did not belong there because someone doesn't like them or has bizarre understandings of what harassment or misconduct might be.
What the loudest complainers don't seem to recognize is that when we demand action from the league on the former - we're setting up a situation where innocent people will get not only banned, but harmed.
Moving that line might get a couple of people on the perm-ban list a few days or weeks faster, but it is 100% certain people who did not do anything wrong would also end up there by that standard.
And I don't think you can un-ring that bell.
It would be a lot more productive if people debating and complaining approached the issue with a mindset of that line and whether/how it can or should be moved instead of assuming leagues 'know' everything that happened and it's just a matter of clicking the ban button or not.
But, even if you don't want to get into the debates - if you have seen these behaviors, please, please file reports and share the evidence.
Please never assume because some of the evidence is in a team discord or circulating among your teammates or friends that the leagues know. They probably don't and it would be way better to see the same thing reported 3 times than everyone to assume someone else has done it and then be frustrated that discipline hasn't happened yet.
Before this thread gets appropriately locked - I want to try and channel a little energy toward dealing with what I see as the real barriers to improving the speed and accuracy of TF2 league discipline.
I am saying this as not only a retired RGL admin/RC member - but also as the parent of a teenager who is very online. (I am not going to violate any confidentiality on any case here or talk about my own family and life).
As far as I can tell, few or none of the people talking about league discipline here actually experienced reviewing cases and deciding when/how to act and that doesn't invalidate their views, but please keep that in perspective.
The biggest issue by far is a lack of reporting. I have heard and seen many people complain heavily about league slowness or inaction on issues, but themselves never filed a report and seem oblivious to the idea that the league cannot act on what it does not know.
There's just this assumption that because some people talk about things in private discords, that league staff already know and the delay is just waiting for them to get around to it.
As volunteer-led, community leagues - almost all the incidents that made this video took place completely outside of any definition of 'on-platform' activities. They're in private discords and direct messaging or player's past/offline activities.
Leagues cannot see these things to act on unless a victim or someone who sees it takes the time and effort to document and report.
Dealing with these requires facts to be seen and understood. Without them, the leagues have a choice, just ban people based on opinions/innuendo or wait for judgement until facts and evidence come to light.
RGL has historically sat on the somewhat conservative side of needing to be pretty sure before banning a player, at least since well before I joined RC (way less than 'beyond a reasonable doubt' but a lot more than 'I heard XXX is a pedo'). People can and do report bullshit sometimes. There are people in this community that could have ended up in this bullshit video that did not belong there because someone doesn't like them or has bizarre understandings of what harassment or misconduct might be.
What the loudest complainers don't seem to recognize is that when we demand action from the league on the former - we're setting up a situation where innocent people will get not only banned, but harmed.
Moving that line might get a couple of people on the perm-ban list a few days or weeks faster, but it is 100% certain people who did not do anything wrong would also end up there by that standard.
And I don't think you can un-ring that bell.
It would be a lot more productive if people debating and complaining approached the issue with a mindset of that line and whether/how it can or should be moved instead of assuming leagues 'know' everything that happened and it's just a matter of clicking the ban button or not.
But, even if you don't want to get into the debates - if you have seen these behaviors, please, please file reports and share the evidence.
Please never assume because some of the evidence is in a team discord or circulating among your teammates or friends that the leagues know. They probably don't and it would be way better to see the same thing reported 3 times than everyone to assume someone else has done it and then be frustrated that discipline hasn't happened yet.
I am saying this as not only a retired RGL admin/RC member - but also as the parent of a teenager who is very online. (I am not going to violate any confidentiality on any case here or talk about my own family and life).
As far as I can tell, few or none of the people talking about league discipline here actually experienced reviewing cases and deciding when/how to act and that doesn't invalidate their views, but please keep that in perspective.
The biggest issue by far is a lack of reporting. I have heard and seen many people complain heavily about league slowness or inaction on issues, but themselves never filed a report and seem oblivious to the idea that the league cannot act on what it does not know.
There's just this assumption that because some people talk about things in private discords, that league staff already know and the delay is just waiting for them to get around to it.
As volunteer-led, community leagues - almost all the incidents that made this video took place completely outside of any definition of 'on-platform' activities. They're in private discords and direct messaging or player's past/offline activities.
Leagues cannot see these things to act on unless a victim or someone who sees it takes the time and effort to document and report.
Dealing with these requires facts to be seen and understood. Without them, the leagues have a choice, just ban people based on opinions/innuendo or wait for judgement until facts and evidence come to light.
RGL has historically sat on the somewhat conservative side of needing to be pretty sure before banning a player, at least since well before I joined RC (way less than 'beyond a reasonable doubt' but a lot more than 'I heard XXX is a pedo'). People can and do report bullshit sometimes. There are people in this community that could have ended up in this bullshit video that did not belong there because someone doesn't like them or has bizarre understandings of what harassment or misconduct might be.
What the loudest complainers don't seem to recognize is that when we demand action from the league on the former - we're setting up a situation where innocent people will get not only banned, but harmed.
Moving that line might get a couple of people on the perm-ban list a few days or weeks faster, but it is 100% certain people who did not do anything wrong would also end up there by that standard.
And I don't think you can un-ring that bell.
It would be a lot more productive if people debating and complaining approached the issue with a mindset of that line and whether/how it can or should be moved instead of assuming leagues 'know' everything that happened and it's just a matter of clicking the ban button or not.
But, even if you don't want to get into the debates - if you have seen these behaviors, please, please file reports and share the evidence.
Please never assume because some of the evidence is in a team discord or circulating among your teammates or friends that the leagues know. They probably don't and it would be way better to see the same thing reported 3 times than everyone to assume someone else has done it and then be frustrated that discipline hasn't happened yet.
TholeImagine how much better this issue would be if TF2 had girls playing it. As it stands currently our pedo scene operates similarly to Greek pederasty (paiderastia) with the predator also being a mentor of sorts, which while the pedophilia part is obviously the main concern, theres also a second layer of damage being done in getting them hooked on a 20 year old videogame that eats up a relatively important chunk of your developmental years. Sexual predation is obviously not a big concern for 90% of players since gay men make up a fraction of the population, so cases like the ones mentioned in the video are not something the average highschool boy pocket scout is worried would happen to them, and men in general are just less likely to report inappropriate sexual misconduct, especially when they are the victim. However if we had girls playing this game they would not fuck around about calling out pedos and trying to get everyone banned. Our pedos would have to be on their absolute best behavior to continue playing this game and would probably have to get their pedo fix elsewhere like so many of the overwatch and valorant players probably do.
And people say shakespear is dead
[quote=Thole]Imagine how much better this issue would be if TF2 had girls playing it. As it stands currently our pedo scene operates similarly to Greek pederasty (paiderastia) with the predator also being a mentor of sorts, which while the pedophilia part is obviously the main concern, theres also a second layer of damage being done in getting them hooked on a 20 year old videogame that eats up a relatively important chunk of your developmental years. Sexual predation is obviously not a big concern for 90% of players since gay men make up a fraction of the population, so cases like the ones mentioned in the video are not something the average highschool boy pocket scout is worried would happen to them, and men in general are just less likely to report inappropriate sexual misconduct, especially when they are the victim. However if we had girls playing this game they would not fuck around about calling out pedos and trying to get everyone banned. Our pedos would have to be on their absolute best behavior to continue playing this game and would probably have to get their pedo fix elsewhere like so many of the overwatch and valorant players probably do.[/quote]
And people say shakespear is dead
And people say shakespear is dead
This thread has been locked.