#30 more like "if we're fucked we have to be ready to do something about it" then "lol let's all quit esea"
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o my esea
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#30 more like "if we're fucked we have to be ready to do something about it" then "lol let's all quit esea"
I'm really torn on this.
I was really pissed off when all this came out and wanted to see ESEA face the music, but at the same time I understand that as things are, they're a necessary evil.
They made promises to remedy the affected users, and as far as anyone knows they're making good on it. They made promises that this was a one thing deal, and that the involved parties were fired (although reading on the CS:GO subreddit and the esea forums it seems to indicate otherwise) and that they were putting "all" of the funds into the prize pots for this season. On the other hand, nobody knows the full extent of this. How long it really went on, to what extent they exploited the client and what other sorts of rogue code were stuck in there that no one saw.
I was a part of a similar (albeit much broader and larger) punitive damages class action. I can tell you that class certification is going to be tough on this one, and will probably take quite a while. The lawyers for the plaintiffs (basically anyone who downloaded the client, ultimately) will have to argue that everyone incurred equal damages (or *could* have incurred them, but most judges, especially in CA where this, and my case were, will want solid proof of damages). I think it's in ESEA's best interest to go ahead and try a single case and see what happens. The sheer amount of technobabble the plaintiff's council would have to dumb down and explain to a judge and jury is staggering... I'm sure ESEA et al has some pretty phenomenal connections to good council in NY, some of the best class action defenders are out there, so I don't see this having any immediate effect on TF2 or ESEA in general. My case took over 3 years to resolve, and now, 5 years later, it's technically still in arbitration. ESEA has the time and resources to throw at this, and honestly I really don't see this going anywhere. ESEA has made good faith efforts to "restore" any damages to relevant parties of the class, and honestly most judges will see that during class certification and deny it. But know knows, some judges love this new age "Facebooky" shit.
I'm really torn on this.
I was really pissed off when all this came out and wanted to see ESEA face the music, but at the same time I understand that as things are, they're a necessary evil.
They made promises to remedy the affected users, and as far as anyone knows they're making good on it. They made promises that this was a one thing deal, and that the involved parties were fired (although reading on the CS:GO subreddit and the esea forums it seems to indicate otherwise) and that they were putting "all" of the funds into the prize pots for this season. On the other hand, nobody knows the full extent of this. How long it really went on, to what extent they exploited the client and what other sorts of rogue code were stuck in there that no one saw.
I was a part of a similar (albeit much broader and larger) punitive damages class action. I can tell you that class certification is going to be tough on this one, and will probably take quite a while. The lawyers for the plaintiffs (basically anyone who downloaded the client, ultimately) will have to argue that everyone incurred equal damages (or *could* have incurred them, but most judges, especially in CA where this, and my case were, will want solid proof of damages). I think it's in ESEA's best interest to go ahead and try a single case and see what happens. The sheer amount of technobabble the plaintiff's council would have to dumb down and explain to a judge and jury is staggering... I'm sure ESEA et al has some pretty phenomenal connections to good council in NY, some of the best class action defenders are out there, so I don't see this having any immediate effect on TF2 or ESEA in general. My case took over 3 years to resolve, and now, 5 years later, it's technically still in arbitration. ESEA has the time and resources to throw at this, and honestly I really don't see this going anywhere. ESEA has made good faith efforts to "restore" any damages to relevant parties of the class, and honestly most judges will see that during class certification and deny it. But know knows, some judges love this new age "Facebooky" shit.
I was really pissed off when all this came out and wanted to see ESEA face the music, but at the same time I understand that as things are, they're a necessary evil.
They made promises to remedy the affected users, and as far as anyone knows they're making good on it. They made promises that this was a one thing deal, and that the involved parties were fired (although reading on the CS:GO subreddit and the esea forums it seems to indicate otherwise) and that they were putting "all" of the funds into the prize pots for this season. On the other hand, nobody knows the full extent of this. How long it really went on, to what extent they exploited the client and what other sorts of rogue code were stuck in there that no one saw.
I was a part of a similar (albeit much broader and larger) punitive damages class action. I can tell you that class certification is going to be tough on this one, and will probably take quite a while. The lawyers for the plaintiffs (basically anyone who downloaded the client, ultimately) will have to argue that everyone incurred equal damages (or *could* have incurred them, but most judges, especially in CA where this, and my case were, will want solid proof of damages). I think it's in ESEA's best interest to go ahead and try a single case and see what happens. The sheer amount of technobabble the plaintiff's council would have to dumb down and explain to a judge and jury is staggering... I'm sure ESEA et al has some pretty phenomenal connections to good council in NY, some of the best class action defenders are out there, so I don't see this having any immediate effect on TF2 or ESEA in general. My case took over 3 years to resolve, and now, 5 years later, it's technically still in arbitration. ESEA has the time and resources to throw at this, and honestly I really don't see this going anywhere. ESEA has made good faith efforts to "restore" any damages to relevant parties of the class, and honestly most judges will see that during class certification and deny it. But know knows, some judges love this new age "Facebooky" shit.
I don't doubt for a second that there will be a replacement (being only one of what are probably many working on such a project) if ESEA TF2 ceases to be a thing in the future, but the big question is whether the NA competitive community is ready to accept the sacrifices that have to be made (the big possible one being no LAN) in order to make such a league work.
I don't doubt for a second that there will be a replacement (being only one of what are probably many working on such a project) if ESEA TF2 ceases to be a thing in the future, but the big question is whether the NA competitive community is ready to accept the sacrifices that have to be made (the big possible one being no LAN) in order to make such a league work.
thesupremecommanderI don't doubt for a second that there will be a replacement (being only one of what are probably many working on such a project) if ESEA TF2 ceases to be a thing in the future, but the big question is whether the NA competitive community is ready to accept the sacrifices that have to be made (the big possible one being no LAN) in order to make such a league work.
It's not "the big possible one". It's a fact.
[quote=thesupremecommander]I don't doubt for a second that there will be a replacement (being only one of what are probably many working on such a project) if ESEA TF2 ceases to be a thing in the future, but the big question is whether the NA competitive community is ready to accept the sacrifices that have to be made (the big possible one being no LAN) in order to make such a league work.[/quote]
It's not "the big possible one". It's a fact.
It's not "the big possible one". It's a fact.
the responses to these are always depressing b/c the way you all argue makes it sound like
either you all deal with a legitimately awful company, known to not really put much care into your existence, or everyone you know including your loved ones and your dog die
can we just kidnap robin walker to get valve to properly fund TF2 esports
please
the responses to these are always depressing b/c the way you all argue makes it sound like
either you all deal with a legitimately awful company, known to not really put much care into your existence, or everyone you know including your loved ones and your dog die
can we just kidnap robin walker to get valve to properly fund TF2 esports
please
either you all deal with a legitimately awful company, known to not really put much care into your existence, or everyone you know including your loved ones and your dog die
can we just kidnap robin walker to get valve to properly fund TF2 esports
please
KalkinIt's not "the big possible one". It's a fact.
Alright then. Do we just assume that if or when ESEA TF2 dies, the upper NA TF2 competitive scene dies? Or is there a way to make this necessary step happen?
I mean, as a scene we should be proud that we're not dependent on Valve for keeping us alive, but instead we're dependent on a not-necessarily-so-benevolent organization. I'm not saying that we should throw ESEA by the side of the road, but independence is a good thing to work toward, and we're almost there. If we want comp TF2 to be truly independent, we have to find a way to make things like LAN happen.
[quote=Kalkin]It's not "the big possible one". It's a fact.[/quote]
Alright then. Do we just assume that if or when ESEA TF2 dies, the upper NA TF2 competitive scene dies? Or is there a way to make this necessary step happen?
I mean, as a scene we should be proud that we're not dependent on Valve for keeping us alive, but instead we're dependent on a not-necessarily-so-benevolent organization. I'm not saying that we should throw ESEA by the side of the road, but independence is a good thing to work toward, and we're almost there. If we want comp TF2 to be truly independent, we have to find a way to make things like LAN happen.
Alright then. Do we just assume that if or when ESEA TF2 dies, the upper NA TF2 competitive scene dies? Or is there a way to make this necessary step happen?
I mean, as a scene we should be proud that we're not dependent on Valve for keeping us alive, but instead we're dependent on a not-necessarily-so-benevolent organization. I'm not saying that we should throw ESEA by the side of the road, but independence is a good thing to work toward, and we're almost there. If we want comp TF2 to be truly independent, we have to find a way to make things like LAN happen.
if tf2 dies does that mean i have to learn how to play dota?
oh gob
if tf2 dies does that mean i have to learn how to play dota?
oh gob
oh gob
Okay. The only thing I have a problem with is these three guys are trying to speak on behalf of all affected. I highly, highly doubt the money they may win from this will be spread out to everyone in a similar situation. Let's be real. Most of the guys in TF2 really don't give a fuck. I don't think everyone came forward and said "yeah we want to sue to" who had their computers used maliciously. So how can this legal, LEGAL document make an assumption that everyone did?
I agree that esea did a criminal offense, and the lawsuit makes sense. But what the fuck gives the plaintiffs the right to speak on behalf of everyone who was involved?
Am I just inept at law or something, or does that seem strange?
Okay. The only thing I have a problem with is these three guys are trying to speak on behalf of all affected. I highly, highly doubt the money they may win from this will be spread out to everyone in a similar situation. Let's be real. Most of the guys in TF2 really don't give a fuck. I don't think everyone came forward and said "yeah we want to sue to" who had their computers used maliciously. So how can this legal, LEGAL document make an assumption that everyone did?
I agree that esea did a criminal offense, and the lawsuit makes sense. But what the fuck gives the plaintiffs the right to speak on behalf of everyone who was involved?
Am I just inept at law or something, or does that seem strange?
I agree that esea did a criminal offense, and the lawsuit makes sense. But what the fuck gives the plaintiffs the right to speak on behalf of everyone who was involved?
Am I just inept at law or something, or does that seem strange?
DavyCif tf2 dies does that mean i have to learn how to play dota?
oh gob
it's a pretty tough learning curve but you'll get over it
or play league like some nerds do
[quote=DavyC]if tf2 dies does that mean i have to learn how to play dota?
oh gob[/quote]
it's a pretty tough learning curve but you'll get over it
or play league like some nerds do
oh gob[/quote]
it's a pretty tough learning curve but you'll get over it
or play league like some nerds do
OOVOOVaimA league where you only have to pay a one time fee and not a monthly payment? That would be the life.dingohey lets make a tf.tv league, we can make the lan in a place that isn't chicago or have it at an already existing lanya this totally hasnt been brought up and shot down many times before
Surprise????, OOV_DOUCHEBAG strikes again
[quote=OOVOOV][quote=aim]A league where you only have to pay a one time fee and not a monthly payment? That would be the life.[/quote]
[quote=dingo]hey lets make a tf.tv league, we can make the lan in a place that isn't chicago or have it at an already existing lan[/quote]
ya this totally hasnt been brought up and shot down many times before[/quote]
[i]Surprise????[/i], OOV_DOUCHEBAG strikes again
[quote=dingo]hey lets make a tf.tv league, we can make the lan in a place that isn't chicago or have it at an already existing lan[/quote]
ya this totally hasnt been brought up and shot down many times before[/quote]
[i]Surprise????[/i], OOV_DOUCHEBAG strikes again
kane is actually more than jet rich, his family owns an island and they are mega loaded.
kane is actually more than jet rich, his family owns an island and they are mega loaded.
@ #38, it's a class action. Depending on how the class is defined you may be considered a plaintiff "similarly situated." Many of you might have been in a similar situation with the Bank of America class action last year (I know I got a small check in the mail).
No one should make the assumption that filing suit means ESEA is going under. The actual damage caused by the bitcoin mining is probably insignificant in light of the funds ESEA has at its disposal.
As far as the motivation behind filing the law suit, people were mad, they have a right to try and get compensation from a company that effectively lied and stole from them, even if you (or many people) don't care.
@ #38, it's a class action. Depending on how the class is defined you may be considered a plaintiff "similarly situated." Many of you might have been in a similar situation with the Bank of America class action last year (I know I got a small check in the mail).
No one should make the assumption that filing suit means ESEA is going under. The actual damage caused by the bitcoin mining is probably insignificant in light of the funds ESEA has at its disposal.
As far as the motivation behind filing the law suit, people were mad, they have a right to try and get compensation from a company that effectively lied and stole from them, even if you (or many people) don't care.
No one should make the assumption that filing suit means ESEA is going under. The actual damage caused by the bitcoin mining is probably insignificant in light of the funds ESEA has at its disposal.
As far as the motivation behind filing the law suit, people were mad, they have a right to try and get compensation from a company that effectively lied and stole from them, even if you (or many people) don't care.
i've seen this community do a lot simply because they love this game and the competitive scene we're apart of. we raised $20,000 just to go to europe. didn't we do that twice (i forget)? that's a big deal for such a small community (compared to most other communities) with little help from anyone big/important, like the game's developers for example.
not that i want to see esea go considering it's the best we've got at the moment, but if the time comes i'm certain we can use that ability to come up with something better or just as good. the idea is kind of scary, but don't let it get in the way of how much you enjoy this.
i've seen this community do [b]a lot[/b] simply because they love this game and the competitive scene we're apart of. we raised $20,000 just to go to europe. didn't we do that twice (i forget)? that's a big deal for such a small community (compared to most other communities) with little help from anyone big/important, like the game's developers for example.
not that i want to see esea go considering it's the best we've got at the moment, but if the time comes i'm certain we can use that ability to come up with something better or just as good. the idea is kind of scary, but don't let it get in the way of how much you enjoy this.
not that i want to see esea go considering it's the best we've got at the moment, but if the time comes i'm certain we can use that ability to come up with something better or just as good. the idea is kind of scary, but don't let it get in the way of how much you enjoy this.
@#43 - it's not a class yet, it still needs to go through certification and that's going to be very difficult for any judge to accept, given that fact ESEA has made strides to make things right. Ultimately, I think anyone who wants to see this through is going to have to sue them individually for damages. I really don't see this passing the CA class certification litmus test.
@#43 - it's not a class yet, it still needs to go through certification and that's going to be very difficult for any judge to accept, given that fact ESEA has made strides to make things right. Ultimately, I think anyone who wants to see this through is going to have to sue them individually for damages. I really don't see this passing the CA class certification litmus test.
I get that this a grave bump kinda, but I must have missed it before and I wanted to say a quick comment. Just because they are getting sued, it almost never bankrupts a company so can we please stop saying that's going to kill TF2 and eports. If anything, it will make them a little more aware of the lines of right and wrong, which they may need at this point.
I get that this a grave bump kinda, but I must have missed it before and I wanted to say a quick comment. Just because they are getting sued, it almost never bankrupts a company so can we please stop saying that's going to kill TF2 and eports. If anything, it will make them a little more aware of the lines of right and wrong, which they may need at this point.
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