I get what you're saying in that you shouldn't add on a class you don't want to play. One example that comes to mind for me is if two non soldier mains are both added on pocket and roamer and get picked on the same team and for whatever reason one of them wants to pocket more than the other one (perhaps its a scout main who likes using hitscan). Another case would be people like rick who frequently add up on every class because they don't really care what they play. Before one of the games started in mumble he asked me why I always pick him on pocket, and someone else who was good at multiple classes asked if he wanted to switch to scout. At the time I didn't consider the thought that it would be 'unfair' to switch the two because both players can play any class and if one of them thought they'd have more fun playing one than the other I wasn't going to stop them.
But in some cases things can get iffy, when players who are good at every class are picked early in drafts and then captains later realize they would be more suited playing another class. For example, a few days ago I first picked b4nny in a pug on scout and then once a few rounds of picking went by, realized that there were more good scouts than good roamers so I picked a scout main (vari) on roamer and asked if they were cool switching. There are lots of mind games and things that went into my first pick and had I predicted that all of the good soldiers would be gone I would have done my first pick differently, but since there were 3 mainclassing invite scouts (cyzer slemnish and b4nny) I figured it would be smart to get at least one of them (so as not to let the second pick get the other two and win the pug off of his scouts carrying). Also some people like rick often add up to multiple classes and prefer to play one but think they may not be picked if they only add on that class.

nice try mustard, but skye's vaccinator game is undeniably the best in invite and I'm bad

have you even watched them play im 99% sure boomer is pocketing lol

wrech's backcap game is top tier that has to count for something smh

edit:

freestate is a god

ftfy

edit:
as for myself I'm motivated to keep playing because it's fun and I enjoy trying to improve, but the real reason I've kept playing is the community
Jumping and pugging are also really fun but the biggest factor is that I feel like if I quit It would be really sad to lose contact with all the friends and people I've met over the years from playing the game

https://www.twitch.tv/b3arodactyl/v/72704689

imo this should all be looked at case-by case instead of automatically (or at least, if the system auto bans people it should be more leniant)
dunno if people will agree or disagree with me here but I feel like it matters more for what reason someone had to leave to get a sub than how frequently it happens
if in the middle of a pug your internet randomly goes down that's a lot less reprehensible than someone just dipping a pug because they feel like it
to address the issue of frequency of needing subs, I feel like this also changes drastically on a case by case basis, because some people pug a lot more than others and if someone does actually dip like 50+% of the games they play but the only add up once every two weeks I feel they should get much more of a punishment than someone who shows up to 95% of their games but in a one week period has to leave 3 pugs to help their roomate with stuff, or for whatever other reason
I'm probably biased here because I recently got banned for this and was very salty about it, but I feel like there is a huge flaw with the system in that there is virtually nothing telling people that they will, or for how long, they will be banned if they need a sub
I understand the parallels to the cs:go matchmaking system, but there is one key distinction I'd like to make. When you queue up to play matchmaking, in the top corner of your screen is a big warning sign and in big yellow text it says

Though to be fair it doesn't say exactly for how long you will be banned, it sure as hell makes clear that there are penalties for leaving. Another difference is when someone leaves a cs:go match, they are replaced with a bot. Now, it's tempting to make the joke that because captains have no choice over who gets the sub, whichever open bot you get stuck with may as well be an actual robot, but the difference is there is a hope of getting an actual sub and continuing the game as normal. Anyways, from my experience most players are somewhat ignorant about how the sub system works and even people who play on the site super frequently are surprised when they are banned for more than the duration of the pug they're currently in (for example I remember hearing how surprised laz was after he got banned for 2 hours and expected to be able to add up after the pug he was in was over). I think it would make a lot of a difference if people knew what the consequences were and if, for example, someone was going to be banned for an entire week for getting subbed, they probably would be a lot more hesitant to request one unless it was an actual emergency. I know this has been talked about many times before but if the sub system were a little less broken perhaps it wouldn't be as big of an issue esp if people knew they could definitely get an adequite sub themselves (you know, from the archaic long forgotten method of messaging people on your friends list?)

Honestly the way most of this stuff works should probably be rethought, the current system doesn't account for nearly enough things and imo punishes people far too much. It may be a futile task to get someone aliased "The Supreme Commander" to stop being a control freak and constantly over-reaching in hopes of Making Pugs Great Again, but my feeling is that things should be a lot more laid back and imo we're moving in the wrong direction by adding things like ELO and all of these convoluted systems for automatic punishment and stuff. Maybe I'm just old fashioned, I feel that most people who actually played back then will agree with me in saying that the way things worked in the days of #tf2.pug.na and even to an extent tf2pug.me were fine.

What about having some way of ending the pug with both captain's consent in order to let them both captain again and not be banned for 5 minutes or whatever? So if a situation arises where one of the first picked players says in chat "shit i gtg sorry" in the middle of picking, they can both be like yea this ruins the game we're starting over. Don't see any problem with it if both of the captains are cool with it (unless a pug ends in the middle of the draft and all the people who were picked would be fatkidded in the new pug because all the better players in the other pug would be picked over them, but that can still happen if one of the captains is willing to sacrifice their ability to captain for a higher level pug so its hard to say what could be done there)

wall of text incoming:
I'm definitely in agreement with you that it can be an issue when people all swap to their mains and suddenly start rolling the pug, however, there is a fine line between this and the other (more common) case in which, for whatever reason, one team is clearly worse than the other (usually because of a bad captain), the losing team switches two players so that they don't keep getting rolled. Though this techincally ruins the 'sanctity' of the pug and in the eyes of the pug system and elo, unfairly changes the outcome of the pug, I feel that most of the time this actually makes the games more enjoyable to play.
Sure it's definitely frustrating, but even in the most extreme scenario possible, your team is up 4 rounds and then ends up losing because the other team switches to their mains, the switching of classes undeniably makes the game more competitive. Looking at it this way it's clear that people will never swap to classes they are worse at, aside from the stand out cases of people throwing. Even then, what's to say it's so bad to swap classes if you're up 4-0 and there's still 15 minutes left in the game? Even in the absolute worst case, you keep rolling them and the pug ends with the losing team (understandably) more salty, it clearly doesn't make much of a difference. What I feel is the far more likely outcome is that instead of being no fun at all for the losing team, they at least get a chance to get a round or two and come back.
The only real problem I could see is if the captain who picks the better team ends up losing 5-4 because all of his players switched classes and threw to mess with him, but I have full confidence that admins will be able to deal with this situation if it does end up arising. From the developer side I know it's definitely tough to deal with this because in an ideal world the elo system should perfeclty reflect who gets picked and its kind of lame for people to switch around to avoid losing elo, but my personal feeling (and hopefully people agree with me here) is that having an actually enjoyable, competitive game is much more important than sticking to the drafted teams and knowing full well that you will lose because your captain fucked up.
Of course it's hard to manage with the amount of games that happen every day, but I remember in the old pug systems (pug.na on irc for example) if you picked a team and got 5-0 rolled, you would 100% get captain restricted if there was an admin around, no questions asked. It seems to me that with this new system this happens a lot less frequently which can lead to more shitty captains and less balanced games, which is fun for nobody. So instead of trying to scapegoat the players switching to their mains and 'ruining' the pugs, you have to at least acknowledge that this doesn't come out of nowhere and more often than not the root cause is the captains (who pick bad teams, leading their players to want to switch in the first place). I know people definitely have differing opinions on this and I may be biased as a frequent captain and player who has done this in the past, but I don't really see it as too much of an issue. Something I didn't address here, something that should be obvious, is that a lot of the time people just don't want to play certain classes. If you get picked on a class you're not good at or you don't want to play, I think it makes perfect sense for people to be able to switch.(for example, when I get picked on a combat class in a high level pug as a medic main I'm likely to want to switch because, whether the pug captain knows it or not, I suck at combat classes)

As for possible sollutions, I'm not sure if this is possible, but if there were some way to get the site to check the logs and verify which class people played and adjust accordingly, that could at least help fix the issue with the elo being skewed (though afaik there isn't elo for specific classes, but maybe that's something worth adding, idk). The far simpler option would just be for admins to investigate any complaints about this on a case-by case basis and determine if people switching classes did in fact ruin the pug, because at least in my mind, it makes no sense to ban people if nobody who was actually in the pug had a problem with it (applies to offclassing too, if people don't have a problem with it why does Big Brother need to step in)

i mean he can shoot things but that being said he is undeniably one of the biggest retards i've ever interacted with perhaps bested only by whitepowerjesus or milan

whatever you do make sure you don't end up maining medic and then hating yourself for not playing soldier like me

what hiding spots they were all removed when granary_abortion was created

yikes

http://i.imgur.com/yhKNSZn.png

http://i.imgur.com/Vje5b7Y.gif

why would you have any respect for someone named rob the awsm in the first place?

The Only Other Decent Invite Medic Has Since Fallen To The Depths Of Open . . . You Will Be Missed Cookie Jacob [*]

http://i.imgur.com/EGlqAtk.png

get fucked emkay

sweet editing man, super smooth slow mo on the pipe kills

enjoyed the frags & music, not so sure about the round timer, lack of xhair & funky orange skybox in the first clip

also it ends very abruptly, should at the very least fade out the music