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koth_metro - Feedback developing a KOTH map for 6s
1
#1
0 Frags +

Current version: koth_metro_a4

I'm a 6s player working on developing a koth map specifically for 6v6 play, currently under the name koth_metro. After several alpha iterations I'm looking to get some serious feedback on basic map geometry and game flow in a competitive environment.

You can see screenshots and download the map here on TF2Maps.net.

The map is completely functional and ready for play. While I've done my best to carefully consider the map layout, I'm absolutely still open to major revisions to all areas of the map, so any and all suggestions are welcome.

Changelog

a4

  • Moved the right-most route to point further right and tweaked the surrounding geometry.
  • Moved the left most route to point further left and tweaked the surrounding geometry.
  • Redesigned the house/closed area from the ground up to be more open.
  • Redesigned the catwalk attached to house/closet area - now leads towards point.
  • Redesigned spawn rooms and exits.
  • Redesigned spawn courtyard to be more open and interesting, and to discourage spawn-camping.
  • Redesigned routes out of spawn courtyard to be more distinct.
  • Fixed and issue with the point not unlocking.
  • Added and repositioned props in point area.
  • Added high ground to left side of courtyard.
  • Added elements to block overpowered soldier/demo bombs.
  • Added elements to better illustrate where jumpers can fly over.
  • Added basic props where relevant to player movement/gameplay.
[b]Current version: koth_metro_a4[/b]

I'm a 6s player working on developing a koth map specifically for 6v6 play, currently under the name [b]koth_metro[/b]. After several alpha iterations I'm looking to get some serious feedback on basic map geometry and game flow in a competitive environment.

[url=http://tf2maps.net/threads/koth_metro.27479/]You can see screenshots and download the map here on TF2Maps.net.[/url]

The map is completely functional and ready for play. While I've done my best to carefully consider the map layout,[b] I'm absolutely still open to major revisions to all areas of the map[/b], so any and all suggestions are welcome.

[b]Changelog[/b]

[b]a4[/b]
[list]
[*] Moved the right-most route to point further right and tweaked the surrounding geometry.
[*] Moved the left most route to point further left and tweaked the surrounding geometry.
[*] Redesigned the house/closed area from the ground up to be more open.
[*] Redesigned the catwalk attached to house/closet area - now leads towards point.
[*] Redesigned spawn rooms and exits.
[*] Redesigned spawn courtyard to be more open and interesting, and to discourage spawn-camping.
[*] Redesigned routes out of spawn courtyard to be more distinct.
[*] Fixed and issue with the point not unlocking.
[*] Added and repositioned props in point area.
[*] Added high ground to left side of courtyard.
[*] Added elements to block overpowered soldier/demo bombs.
[*] Added elements to better illustrate where jumpers can fly over.
[*] Added basic props where relevant to player movement/gameplay.
[/list]
2
#2
5 Frags +

A quick run through.
-both entrances from spawn are right next to each other
-all 3 chokes (right outside of spawn) start and nearly end at the same height, are about the same size, and function nearly identical to each other.
-lack of sightline cover on mid. It's important to create very distinct sight lines, especially on mid. Think above and bellow badlands mid bridge, low ground and high ground on gullywash, even the hill on viaduct works as a sight line blocker because you never really want to stand in the middle during a mid fight.
-scaling and ramp incline on most of the map

Every entrance should act as a unique path for players. Some should end on high ground, some should begin, some should lead to chokes, others to open areas. You want just as much strategic variety as possible so combo has a reason to push one choke over another. Ask yourself: are there 2-3 unique paths for the combo to push from area to area? If they push on the left do they end up in the same place as if they push through the middle? You want as much variety as possible.

By the way maps in the map pool are by no means perfect. Figure out what works and what doesn't.

A quick run through.
-both entrances from spawn are right next to each other
-all 3 chokes (right outside of spawn) start and nearly end at the same height, are about the same size, and function nearly identical to each other.
-lack of sightline cover on mid. It's important to create very distinct sight lines, especially on mid. Think above and bellow badlands mid bridge, low ground and high ground on gullywash, even the hill on viaduct works as a sight line blocker because you never really want to stand in the middle during a mid fight.
-scaling and ramp incline on most of the map

Every entrance should act as a unique path for players. Some should end on high ground, some should begin, some should lead to chokes, others to open areas. You want just as much strategic variety as possible so combo has a reason to push one choke over another. Ask yourself: are there 2-3 unique paths for the combo to push from area to area? If they push on the left do they end up in the same place as if they push through the middle? You want as much variety as possible.

By the way maps in the map pool are by no means perfect. Figure out what works and what doesn't.
3
#3
5 Frags +

Please make the ground flat and not like a hill, it's so annyoing to shoot rockets/ctap on that

Please make the ground flat and not like a hill, it's so annyoing to shoot rockets/ctap on that
4
#4
-4 Frags +

There is reason why 5cp is most dominant gamemode in 6s.
Most of koth maps are ultimate dm fest, which makes game unfun to play and watch, as well sniper having insane impact on koth, especially on viaduct. Another major problem is that viaduct is only good koth map, and it's hard to make good koth map without ripping viaduct off.

There is reason why 5cp is most dominant gamemode in 6s.
Most of koth maps are ultimate dm fest, which makes game unfun to play and watch, as well sniper having insane impact on koth, especially on viaduct. Another major problem is that viaduct is only good koth map, and it's hard to make good koth map without ripping viaduct off.
5
#5
11 Frags +
MankyThere is reason why 5cp is most dominant gamemode in 6s.
Most of koth maps are ultimate dm fest, which makes game unfun to play and watch, as well sniper having insane impact on koth, especially on viaduct. Another major problem is that viaduct is only good koth map, and it's hard to make good koth map without ripping viaduct off.

idk about you but i think viaduct is one of the most fun maps to watch

its just hard to cast or understand if you are new

[quote=Manky]There is reason why 5cp is most dominant gamemode in 6s.
Most of koth maps are ultimate dm fest, which makes game unfun to play and watch, as well sniper having insane impact on koth, especially on viaduct. Another major problem is that viaduct is only good koth map, and it's hard to make good koth map without ripping viaduct off.[/quote]
idk about you but i think viaduct is one of the most fun maps to watch

its just hard to cast or understand if you are new
6
#6
3 Frags +

if yung metro dont trust you ...

if yung metro dont trust you ...
7
#7
4 Frags +

Just played this 7v7 on the TF2maps servers.

- The point doesn't unlock.
- The areas are too connected, the different entrances don't feel like they lead to separate push areas, just one main hallway.
- The point area and geometry is underscaled as hell, making soldier and scout too powerful.
- The spawn is terrible, look at how Viaduct constructs its courtyard.

Edit: Not exactly sure why I am being downvoted, this is actual feedback from playtesting.

Just played this 7v7 on the TF2maps servers.

- The point doesn't unlock.
- The areas are too connected, the different entrances don't feel like they lead to separate push areas, just one main hallway.
- The point area and geometry is underscaled as hell, making soldier and scout too powerful.
- The spawn is terrible, look at how Viaduct constructs its courtyard.

Edit: Not exactly sure why I am being downvoted, this is actual feedback from playtesting.
8
#8
1 Frags +
riotbzViaducts just hard to cast or understand if you are new

I have a love hate with it. As a newer caster, I find the hard part of casting it is that there is no time for an analysis, and there's no good gap to hand off to the other caster, as the next push happens so quickly. This results in less experienced casters talking for a long time, and can make the co caster feel like he's not even there, which is why 5cp is preferred. 5cp plays to the analyst role, as generally there's time between pushes to talk about what happened and what will happen. With that said, some of the most highlight reel games ive done were Viaduct.

[quote=riotbz]Viaducts just hard to cast or understand if you are new[/quote]

I have a love hate with it. As a newer caster, I find the hard part of casting it is that there is no time for an analysis, and there's no good gap to hand off to the other caster, as the next push happens so quickly. This results in less experienced casters talking for a long time, and can make the co caster feel like he's not even there, which is why 5cp is preferred. 5cp plays to the analyst role, as generally there's time between pushes to talk about what happened and what will happen. With that said, some of the most highlight reel games ive done were Viaduct.
9
#9
3 Frags +

i think the one thing that should be distinctly different from viaduct is that the point shouldn't be a great place to defend from, i think it would change the style of play significantly and would be cool to see attackers with a good advantage instead of just sac'ing into turtle defense

i think the one thing that should be distinctly different from viaduct is that the point shouldn't be a great place to defend from, i think it would change the style of play significantly and would be cool to see attackers with a good advantage instead of just sac'ing into turtle defense
10
#10
4 Frags +

Taking into account all the feedback from here, TF2Maps, and friends, I've made a number of significant changes.

To download the map, click here or on the link in the first post.

Changelog

  • Moved the right-most route to point further right and tweaked the surrounding geometry.
  • Moved the left most route to point further left and tweaked the surrounding geometry.
  • Redesigned the house/closed area from the ground up to be more open.
  • Redesigned the catwalk attached to house/closet area - now leads towards point.
  • Redesigned spawn rooms and exits.
  • Redesigned spawn courtyard to be more open and interesting, and to discourage spawn-camping.
  • Redesigned routes out of spawn courtyard to be more distinct.
  • Fixed and issue with the point not unlocking.
  • Added and repositioned props in point area.
  • Added high ground to left side of courtyard.
  • Added elements to block overpowered soldier/demo bombs.
  • Added elements to better illustrate where jumpers can fly over.
  • Added basic props where relevant to player movement/gameplay.

Any further feedback would be appreciated!

Taking into account all the feedback from here, TF2Maps, and friends, I've made a number of significant changes.

To download the map, [url=http://tf2maps.net/downloads/koth_metro.1363/]click here[/url] or on the link in the first post.

[b]Changelog[/b]
[list]
[*] Moved the right-most route to point further right and tweaked the surrounding geometry.
[*] Moved the left most route to point further left and tweaked the surrounding geometry.
[*] Redesigned the house/closed area from the ground up to be more open.
[*] Redesigned the catwalk attached to house/closet area - now leads towards point.
[*] Redesigned spawn rooms and exits.
[*] Redesigned spawn courtyard to be more open and interesting, and to discourage spawn-camping.
[*] Redesigned routes out of spawn courtyard to be more distinct.
[*] Fixed and issue with the point not unlocking.
[*] Added and repositioned props in point area.
[*] Added high ground to left side of courtyard.
[*] Added elements to block overpowered soldier/demo bombs.
[*] Added elements to better illustrate where jumpers can fly over.
[*] Added basic props where relevant to player movement/gameplay.
[/list]

Any further feedback would be appreciated!
11
#11
2 Frags +

DAT remake, really nice. I'll edit this post with crits tonight after we playtest.

DAT remake, really nice. I'll edit this post with crits tonight after we playtest.
12
#12
1 Frags +

the yard area is coming along beautifully. I think mid still needs some work

but I'm not a mapper

edit: also a city theme would be fucking awesome

the yard area is coming along beautifully. I think mid still needs some work

but I'm not a mapper

edit: also a city theme would be fucking awesome
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