boppetAll other resident eyewitness accounts say that Brown did put his hands up or more or less stopped and surrendered.
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[quote=boppet]All other resident eyewitness accounts say that Brown did put his hands up or more or less stopped and surrendered.[/quote]
[url=http://puu.sh/d7cRA/bae3689cc6.jpg]Have a nice image.[/url]
[url=http://puu.sh/d7cRA/bae3689cc6.jpg]Have a nice image.[/url]
MarxistSo Memphis you mean to imply that putting your hands on a police officer is a crime worthy of the death penalty? Or mayhaps, one arm wielding a pen at them? Because if it's not, I fail to see what you're adding here.
It's not hard to see that the whole point here, is that it's *far* too easy for police officers to kill people and then go on being cops. It's *very* rare that one secures a conviction - even in a case as laughable as gunning down a 1 armed guy in a wheel chair.
I think everyone is sort of missing the point of these protests. The protests aren't only for this event regarding Michael Brown. While it's unfortunate that he had to die, his death represents the bigger picture. There's a stereotype out there that black people are criminals and violent people. And while by no means am I saying that everyone holds this perception, but the perception does exist. And sadly, this often results in black kids being shot and killed. The protests really represent how tired black people are of their kids being out in danger of killed because of this unfortunate stereotype that exists. White kids and black kids alike commit crimes, but all too often the black kid ends up dead. It doesn't matter if Wilson was guilty or not guilty. Another sad example was in Cleveland where a 12 year old boy was shot with a fake gun. and while violently protesting may just add to this negative perception/stereotype, a line has to be drawn somewhere for these crimes.
[quote=Marxist]So Memphis you mean to imply that putting your hands on a police officer is a crime worthy of the death penalty? Or mayhaps, one arm wielding a pen at them? Because if it's not, I fail to see what you're adding here.
It's not hard to see that the whole point here, is that it's *far* too easy for police officers to kill people and then go on being cops. It's *very* rare that one secures a conviction - even in a case as laughable as gunning down a 1 armed guy in a wheel chair.[/quote]
I think everyone is sort of missing the point of these protests. The protests aren't only for this event regarding Michael Brown. While it's unfortunate that he had to die, his death represents the bigger picture. There's a stereotype out there that black people are criminals and violent people. And while by no means am I saying that everyone holds this perception, but the perception does exist. And sadly, this often results in black kids being shot and killed. The protests really represent how tired black people are of their kids being out in danger of killed because of this unfortunate stereotype that exists. White kids and black kids alike commit crimes, but all too often the black kid ends up dead. It doesn't matter if Wilson was guilty or not guilty. Another sad example was in Cleveland where a 12 year old boy was shot with a fake gun. and while violently protesting may just add to this negative perception/stereotype, a line has to be drawn somewhere for these crimes.
It's not hard to see that the whole point here, is that it's *far* too easy for police officers to kill people and then go on being cops. It's *very* rare that one secures a conviction - even in a case as laughable as gunning down a 1 armed guy in a wheel chair.[/quote]
I think everyone is sort of missing the point of these protests. The protests aren't only for this event regarding Michael Brown. While it's unfortunate that he had to die, his death represents the bigger picture. There's a stereotype out there that black people are criminals and violent people. And while by no means am I saying that everyone holds this perception, but the perception does exist. And sadly, this often results in black kids being shot and killed. The protests really represent how tired black people are of their kids being out in danger of killed because of this unfortunate stereotype that exists. White kids and black kids alike commit crimes, but all too often the black kid ends up dead. It doesn't matter if Wilson was guilty or not guilty. Another sad example was in Cleveland where a 12 year old boy was shot with a fake gun. and while violently protesting may just add to this negative perception/stereotype, a line has to be drawn somewhere for these crimes.
Protesting worked in the past - but now there is easy accessible media that will easy dilute and destroy the message if they feel to do so. Even though I said history repeats itself, the cause may be the same, but we will never know the resolution.
If they actually expect change, they need to do at least 3 things:
1. Organize the riots with a clear message.
2. Unify, and make demands that relate to bettering the police/citizen relationship situation as a whole, outside of an indictment; because that ship has sailed.
3. Riot/Protest away from your community. Outside of the police station or a government building is an effective idea such as this: https://vine.co/v/OAt2EpWulla
Protesting worked in the past - but now there is easy accessible media that will easy dilute and destroy the message if they feel to do so. Even though I said history repeats itself, the cause may be the same, but we will never know the resolution.
If they actually expect change, they need to do at least 3 things:
1. Organize the riots with a clear message.
2. Unify, and make demands that relate to bettering the police/citizen relationship situation as a whole, outside of an indictment; because that ship has sailed.
3. Riot/Protest away from your community. Outside of the police station or a government building is an effective idea such as this: https://vine.co/v/OAt2EpWulla
If they actually expect change, they need to do at least 3 things:
1. Organize the riots with a clear message.
2. Unify, and make demands that relate to bettering the police/citizen relationship situation as a whole, outside of an indictment; because that ship has sailed.
3. Riot/Protest away from your community. Outside of the police station or a government building is an effective idea such as this: https://vine.co/v/OAt2EpWulla
No_One_from_NowheremarmadukeGRYLLSi'm pretty sure i'd rather get shot to death than stabbed.
Well I'd rather get stabbed to death than be flattened by a steam roller.
Just sayin'
if it's head first you're probably better off getting steamrolled. unless you're worried about having a closed casket funeral or some shit, in which case ya you're better off getting stabbed.
[quote=No_One_from_Nowhere][quote=marmadukeGRYLLS]i'm pretty sure i'd rather get shot to death than stabbed.[/quote]
Well I'd rather get stabbed to death than be flattened by a steam roller.
Just sayin'[/quote]
if it's head first you're probably better off getting steamrolled. unless you're worried about having a closed casket funeral or some shit, in which case ya you're better off getting stabbed.
Well I'd rather get stabbed to death than be flattened by a steam roller.
Just sayin'[/quote]
if it's head first you're probably better off getting steamrolled. unless you're worried about having a closed casket funeral or some shit, in which case ya you're better off getting stabbed.
I guess this is part two.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/03/justice/new-york-grand-jury-chokehold/
I guess this is part two.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/03/justice/new-york-grand-jury-chokehold/
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/03/justice/new-york-grand-jury-chokehold/
boppetI guess this is part two.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/03/justice/new-york-grand-jury-chokehold/
fuck new york man this shit is crazy
THIS is the case people should actually be concerned about
[quote=boppet]I guess this is part two.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/03/justice/new-york-grand-jury-chokehold/[/quote]
fuck new york man this shit is crazy
THIS is the case people should actually be concerned about
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/03/justice/new-york-grand-jury-chokehold/[/quote]
fuck new york man this shit is crazy
THIS is the case people should actually be concerned about
There was a lot of grey area in the Ferguson case, but there is absolutely no question that the police officer who killed Eric Garner should have been indicted.
From the beginning I knew the authorities were searching for a way to let Pantaleo off. I guess maybe they found one, but I struggle to imagine what it could be.
The only thing I can think of is that maybe the prosecutors emphasized Garner's poor health, while brazenly ignoring the medical examiner's report and attacking the credibility of the man who recorded the video (even though the video covers the whole incident from start to finish and pretty much speaks for itself).
District attorney's are well known for protecting police from prosecution, but honestly I think this crosses the lines into actual corruption.
There was a lot of grey area in the Ferguson case, but there is absolutely no question that the police officer who killed Eric Garner should have been indicted.
From the beginning I knew the authorities were searching for a way to let Pantaleo off. I guess maybe they found one, but I struggle to imagine what it could be.
The only thing I can think of is that maybe the prosecutors emphasized Garner's poor health, while brazenly ignoring the medical examiner's report and attacking the credibility of the man who recorded the video (even though the video covers the whole incident from start to finish and pretty much speaks for itself).
District attorney's are well known for protecting police from prosecution, but honestly I think this crosses the lines into actual corruption.
From the beginning I knew the authorities were searching for a way to let Pantaleo off. I guess maybe they found one, but I struggle to imagine what it could be.
The only thing I can think of is that maybe the prosecutors emphasized Garner's poor health, while brazenly ignoring the medical examiner's report and attacking the credibility of the man who recorded the video (even though the video covers the whole incident from start to finish and pretty much speaks for itself).
District attorney's are well known for protecting police from prosecution, but honestly I think this crosses the lines into actual corruption.
When you resist arrest you are inviting trouble for yourself. In these cases they got death.
When an officer, or in the NYC case a group of officers, tells you to do something. Just fucking listen.
The time to tell your side will come but not until they have removed you from being a threat. It is really plain and simple to understand.
When you resist arrest you are inviting trouble for yourself. In these cases they got death.
When an officer, or in the NYC case a group of officers, tells you to do something. Just fucking listen.
The time to tell your side will come but not until they have removed you from being a threat. It is really plain and simple to understand.
When an officer, or in the NYC case a group of officers, tells you to do something. Just fucking listen.
The time to tell your side will come but not until they have removed you from being a threat. It is really plain and simple to understand.
SpaceCadetWhen you resist arrest you are inviting trouble for yourself. In these cases they got death.
When an officer, or in the NYC case a group of officers, tells you to do something. Just fucking listen.
The time to tell your side will come but not until they have removed you from being a threat. It is really plain and simple to understand.
There are much better ways to remove you as being a "threat" than choking a person to death. I think that's much more plain and simple to understand. Also choke holds are illegal in the NYPD, which probably explains the cover up the police did when they said the victim was never distressed and he died on his own accord. If there was no bystander filming it in this case, this could've become just like Ferguson where no one knew what really happened. Thank god for cell phones.
[quote=SpaceCadet]When you resist arrest you are inviting trouble for yourself. In these cases they got death.
When an officer, or in the NYC case a group of officers, tells you to do something. Just fucking listen.
The time to tell your side will come but not until they have removed you from being a threat. It is really plain and simple to understand.[/quote]
There are much better ways to remove you as being a "threat" than choking a person to death. I think that's much more plain and simple to understand. Also choke holds are illegal in the NYPD, which probably explains the cover up the police did when they said the victim was never distressed and he died on his own accord. If there was no bystander filming it in this case, this could've become just like Ferguson where no one knew what really happened. Thank god for cell phones.
When an officer, or in the NYC case a group of officers, tells you to do something. Just fucking listen.
The time to tell your side will come but not until they have removed you from being a threat. It is really plain and simple to understand.[/quote]
There are much better ways to remove you as being a "threat" than choking a person to death. I think that's much more plain and simple to understand. Also choke holds are illegal in the NYPD, which probably explains the cover up the police did when they said the victim was never distressed and he died on his own accord. If there was no bystander filming it in this case, this could've become just like Ferguson where no one knew what really happened. Thank god for cell phones.
SpaceCadetWhen you resist arrest you are inviting trouble for yourself. In these cases they got death.
When an officer, or in the NYC case a group of officers, tells you to do something. Just fucking listen.
The time to tell your side will come but not until they have removed you from being a threat. It is really plain and simple to understand.
Come on Spacecadet, you can't be this blind. His hands were literally up when they grabbed hold of him. He did not hit them. He didn't run. At best he swatted the officer who was standing in front of him by the hand once. Then they grabbed him without probable cause (it wasn't proven whether he had recently sold the untaxed cigs or not) and pulled him down to chokehold (which is banned by the NYPD) and died from it.
I don't know in what world where arguing with an officer nonviolently and hitting someone's hand away warrants being choked to death. Even the medical examiner called it a homicide - the officers should at least be charged with assault, and Pantaleo for manslaughter.
[quote=SpaceCadet]When you resist arrest you are inviting trouble for yourself. In these cases they got death.
When an officer, or in the NYC case a group of officers, tells you to do something. Just fucking listen.
The time to tell your side will come but not until they have removed you from being a threat. It is really plain and simple to understand.[/quote]
Come on Spacecadet, you can't be this blind. His [i]hands were literally up[/i] when they grabbed hold of him. He did not hit them. He didn't run. At best he swatted the officer who was standing in front of him by the hand once. Then they grabbed him without probable cause (it wasn't proven whether he had recently sold the untaxed cigs or not) and pulled him down to chokehold (which is banned by the NYPD) and died from it.
I don't know in what world where arguing with an officer nonviolently and hitting someone's hand away warrants being choked to death. Even the medical examiner called it a homicide - the officers should at least be charged with assault, and Pantaleo for manslaughter.
When an officer, or in the NYC case a group of officers, tells you to do something. Just fucking listen.
The time to tell your side will come but not until they have removed you from being a threat. It is really plain and simple to understand.[/quote]
Come on Spacecadet, you can't be this blind. His [i]hands were literally up[/i] when they grabbed hold of him. He did not hit them. He didn't run. At best he swatted the officer who was standing in front of him by the hand once. Then they grabbed him without probable cause (it wasn't proven whether he had recently sold the untaxed cigs or not) and pulled him down to chokehold (which is banned by the NYPD) and died from it.
I don't know in what world where arguing with an officer nonviolently and hitting someone's hand away warrants being choked to death. Even the medical examiner called it a homicide - the officers should at least be charged with assault, and Pantaleo for manslaughter.
There's a federal investigation that will hopefully put that officer in jail. The only way to get good cops is to remove the bad ones.
There's a federal investigation that will hopefully put that officer in jail. The only way to get good cops is to remove the bad ones.
SpaceCadetWhen you resist arrest you are inviting trouble for yourself. In these cases they got death.
When an officer, or in the NYC case a group of officers, tells you to do something. Just fucking listen.
The time to tell your side will come but not until they have removed you from being a threat. It is really plain and simple to understand.
I really don't understand why people insist on not holding police officers accountable for their actions.
why can citizens be blamed for "resisting", but police officers cannot be blamed for what is clearly excessive force?
Do you really think police should be able to order you to do something and then immediately kill you for not complying with their demands? I know it sounds like a ridiculous question, but that does seem to be what you're saying.
Do you really think a fat, middle aged man selling loose cigarettes is enough of a "threat" to justify the use of deadly force
[quote=SpaceCadet]When you resist arrest you are inviting trouble for yourself. In these cases they got death.
When an officer, or in the NYC case a group of officers, tells you to do something. Just fucking listen.
The time to tell your side will come but not until they have removed you from being a threat. It is really plain and simple to understand.[/quote]
I really don't understand why people insist on not holding police officers accountable for their actions.
why can citizens be blamed for "resisting", but police officers cannot be blamed for what is clearly excessive force?
Do you really think police should be able to order you to do something and then immediately kill you for not complying with their demands? I know it sounds like a ridiculous question, but that does seem to be what you're saying.
Do you really think a fat, middle aged man selling loose cigarettes is enough of a "threat" to justify the use of deadly force
When an officer, or in the NYC case a group of officers, tells you to do something. Just fucking listen.
The time to tell your side will come but not until they have removed you from being a threat. It is really plain and simple to understand.[/quote]
I really don't understand why people insist on not holding police officers accountable for their actions.
why can citizens be blamed for "resisting", but police officers cannot be blamed for what is clearly excessive force?
Do you really think police should be able to order you to do something and then immediately kill you for not complying with their demands? I know it sounds like a ridiculous question, but that does seem to be what you're saying.
Do you really think a fat, middle aged man selling loose cigarettes is enough of a "threat" to justify the use of deadly force
boppetSpaceCadetWhen you resist arrest you are inviting trouble for yourself. In these cases they got death.Come on Spacecadet, you can't be this blind. His hands were literally up when they grabbed hold of him. He did not hit them. He didn't run. At best he swatted the officer who was standing in front of him by the hand once. Then they grabbed him without probable cause (it wasn't proven whether he had recently sold the untaxed cigs or not) and pulled him down to chokehold (which is banned by the NYPD) and died from it.
When an officer, or in the NYC case a group of officers, tells you to do something. Just fucking listen.
The time to tell your side will come but not until they have removed you from being a threat. It is really plain and simple to understand.
I don't know in what world where arguing with an officer nonviolently and hitting someone's hand away warrants being choked to death. Even the medical examiner called it a homicide - the officers should at least be charged with assault, and Pantaleo for manslaughter.
Ok, I understand that 95% of the ppl here and on the news just want to bash the police because it is convenient. This is what I see.
1- The police were there cause he was supposedly caught doing something illegal.
2- He was going to get arrested on that basis. He knew that fact and so did the police.
3- At this point, the police have 1 objective, and that is to subdue the criminal and get him in handcuffs before he can do anything dangerous.
4- That does NOT mean there is any discussion required between the police and the criminal so he can get arrested at his leisure.
5- He made a (fatal) decision to resist arrest by saying "Don't Touch me" over and over. His better choice would have been to get arrested and call his lawyer.
6- His saying "I can't breathe" over and over is one of many overused things people say when police need to get physical with criminals. Most times people complain about one thing or another wrong with their body when that happens. It is akin to "crying wolf" since everyone does it all the time.
The bottom line is, police can't take chances with anyone these days. Look at it from the police point of view. This guy could have a hidden weapon at any place on his person. Until the police get him in cuffs and searched, he is a potential threat.
This guy's death was unfortunate and was totally avoidable. His decision to resist arrest is the major issue. His Asthma and overweight body contributed heavily to his death as well. If he was innocent, it can be proven in court, then he can sue and get paid. On the street, you can't argue with police in these situations. You have to pick your battles and play things smart. This guy made a mistake and caused a physical confrontation that his medical issues could not handle causing his death.
[quote=boppet][quote=SpaceCadet]When you resist arrest you are inviting trouble for yourself. In these cases they got death.
When an officer, or in the NYC case a group of officers, tells you to do something. Just fucking listen.
The time to tell your side will come but not until they have removed you from being a threat. It is really plain and simple to understand.[/quote]
Come on Spacecadet, you can't be this blind. His [i]hands were literally up[/i] when they grabbed hold of him. He did not hit them. He didn't run. At best he swatted the officer who was standing in front of him by the hand once. Then they grabbed him without probable cause (it wasn't proven whether he had recently sold the untaxed cigs or not) and pulled him down to chokehold (which is banned by the NYPD) and died from it.
I don't know in what world where arguing with an officer nonviolently and hitting someone's hand away warrants being choked to death. Even the medical examiner called it a homicide - the officers should at least be charged with assault, and Pantaleo for manslaughter.[/quote]
Ok, I understand that 95% of the ppl here and on the news just want to bash the police because it is convenient. This is what I see.
1- The police were there cause he was supposedly caught doing something illegal.
2- He was going to get arrested on that basis. He knew that fact and so did the police.
3- At this point, the police have 1 objective, and that is to subdue the criminal and get him in handcuffs before he can do anything dangerous.
4- That does NOT mean there is any discussion required between the police and the criminal so he can get arrested at his leisure.
5- He made a (fatal) decision to resist arrest by saying "Don't Touch me" over and over. His better choice would have been to get arrested and call his lawyer.
6- His saying "I can't breathe" over and over is one of many overused things people say when police need to get physical with criminals. Most times people complain about one thing or another wrong with their body when that happens. It is akin to "crying wolf" since everyone does it all the time.
The bottom line is, police can't take chances with anyone these days. Look at it from the police point of view. This guy could have a hidden weapon at any place on his person. Until the police get him in cuffs and searched, he is a potential threat.
This guy's death was unfortunate and was totally avoidable. His decision to resist arrest is the major issue. His Asthma and overweight body contributed heavily to his death as well. If he was innocent, it can be proven in court, then he can sue and get paid. On the street, you can't argue with police in these situations. You have to pick your battles and play things smart. This guy made a mistake and caused a physical confrontation that his medical issues could not handle causing his death.
When an officer, or in the NYC case a group of officers, tells you to do something. Just fucking listen.
The time to tell your side will come but not until they have removed you from being a threat. It is really plain and simple to understand.[/quote]
Come on Spacecadet, you can't be this blind. His [i]hands were literally up[/i] when they grabbed hold of him. He did not hit them. He didn't run. At best he swatted the officer who was standing in front of him by the hand once. Then they grabbed him without probable cause (it wasn't proven whether he had recently sold the untaxed cigs or not) and pulled him down to chokehold (which is banned by the NYPD) and died from it.
I don't know in what world where arguing with an officer nonviolently and hitting someone's hand away warrants being choked to death. Even the medical examiner called it a homicide - the officers should at least be charged with assault, and Pantaleo for manslaughter.[/quote]
Ok, I understand that 95% of the ppl here and on the news just want to bash the police because it is convenient. This is what I see.
1- The police were there cause he was supposedly caught doing something illegal.
2- He was going to get arrested on that basis. He knew that fact and so did the police.
3- At this point, the police have 1 objective, and that is to subdue the criminal and get him in handcuffs before he can do anything dangerous.
4- That does NOT mean there is any discussion required between the police and the criminal so he can get arrested at his leisure.
5- He made a (fatal) decision to resist arrest by saying "Don't Touch me" over and over. His better choice would have been to get arrested and call his lawyer.
6- His saying "I can't breathe" over and over is one of many overused things people say when police need to get physical with criminals. Most times people complain about one thing or another wrong with their body when that happens. It is akin to "crying wolf" since everyone does it all the time.
The bottom line is, police can't take chances with anyone these days. Look at it from the police point of view. This guy could have a hidden weapon at any place on his person. Until the police get him in cuffs and searched, he is a potential threat.
This guy's death was unfortunate and was totally avoidable. His decision to resist arrest is the major issue. His Asthma and overweight body contributed heavily to his death as well. If he was innocent, it can be proven in court, then he can sue and get paid. On the street, you can't argue with police in these situations. You have to pick your battles and play things smart. This guy made a mistake and caused a physical confrontation that his medical issues could not handle causing his death.
are you the kind of person that blames a rape victim
are you the kind of person that blames a rape victim
It's not like he said "owww the handcuffs are too tight," he said he couldn't breathe multiple times. Seriously, he was surrounded by cops and he wasn't gonna get anywhere if he tried. The chokehold was entirely unnecessary. How dumb do they feel that they didn't honor his simple request, which then caused him to die? Dunno, doesn't matter, they got off for free.
And not, I don't really bash cops, as I kinda try to stay out of these kinds of debates. However, this shit is inexcusable.
It's not like he said "owww the handcuffs are too tight," he said he couldn't breathe multiple times. Seriously, he was surrounded by cops and he wasn't gonna get anywhere if he tried. The chokehold was entirely unnecessary. How dumb do they feel that they didn't honor his simple request, which then caused him to [b]die[/b]? Dunno, doesn't matter, they got off for free.
And not, I don't really bash cops, as I kinda try to stay out of these kinds of debates. However, this shit is inexcusable.
And not, I don't really bash cops, as I kinda try to stay out of these kinds of debates. However, this shit is inexcusable.
bro force police to wear cameras and this will be a bi-daily ordeal in any inner city
bro force police to wear cameras and this will be a bi-daily ordeal in any inner city
SpaceCadetboppetSpaceCadetstuff
First of all what is convenient about criticizing the police? Wouldn't it be more convenient to claim that the police did nothing wrong and thus there is not massive, systemic problem that needs to be addressed?
"At this point, the police have 1 objective, and that is to subdue the criminal and get him in handcuffs before he can do anything dangerous."
Before he can do anything dangerous? You mean like selling untaxed cigarettes? Even resisting arrest (and I think you have to be biased to claim that he was resisting arrest) is only a misdemeanor, but honestly I don't even think that's relevant. The police should only use force in the manner they did if they know someone's life is in danger. I don't fucking care, if you can't arrest a petty criminal (and selling untaxed cigarettes is pretty fucking small time) without killing him then you're either a complete fucking psycho, incredibly incompetent or both. I honestly don't understand how people can defend this shit.
I don't care if criminals actually lie about not being able to breathe (I don't really understand why you think this is some kind of trick), sometimes they have to be given the benefit of the doubt. More importantly, If you're choking someone and pressing them onto a concrete surface stomach first AND you hear them struggle to get out the words "I can't breathe" you should probably be smart enough to realize that they really can't breathe.
I really hate the hidden weapon argument, because it could apply to anyone in any situation. The idea that police officers are in constant danger from people pulling hidden weapons doesn't seem to have much basis in reality either. Last year the number of police officers killed by firearms dropped to a 54 year low (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/30/law-enforcement-deaths/4247393/) so its not like they're dropping like flies out there.
Ah yes, the personal fitness argument. You have to get yourself in good shape psychically or how will you survive police brutality?
Do you really not think the police could have handled the situation any better?
[quote=SpaceCadet][quote=boppet][quote=SpaceCadet]stuff[/quote]
First of all what is convenient about criticizing the police? Wouldn't it be more convenient to claim that the police did nothing wrong and thus there is not massive, systemic problem that needs to be addressed?
"At this point, the police have 1 objective, and that is to subdue the criminal and get him in handcuffs before he can do anything dangerous."
Before he can do anything dangerous? You mean like selling untaxed cigarettes? Even resisting arrest (and I think you have to be biased to claim that he was resisting arrest) is only a misdemeanor, but honestly I don't even think that's relevant. The police should only use force in the manner they did if they know someone's life is in danger. I don't fucking care, if you can't arrest a petty criminal (and selling untaxed cigarettes is pretty fucking small time) without killing him then you're either a complete fucking psycho, incredibly incompetent or both. I honestly don't understand how people can defend this shit.
I don't care if criminals actually lie about not being able to breathe (I don't really understand why you think this is some kind of trick), sometimes they have to be given the benefit of the doubt. More importantly, If you're choking someone and pressing them onto a concrete surface stomach first AND you hear them struggle to get out the words "I can't breathe" you should probably be smart enough to realize that they really can't breathe.
I really hate the hidden weapon argument, because it could apply to anyone in any situation. The idea that police officers are in constant danger from people pulling hidden weapons doesn't seem to have much basis in reality either. Last year the number of police officers killed by firearms dropped to a 54 year low (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/30/law-enforcement-deaths/4247393/) so its not like they're dropping like flies out there.
Ah yes, the personal fitness argument. You have to get yourself in good shape psychically or how will you survive police brutality?
Do you really not think the police could have handled the situation any better?
First of all what is convenient about criticizing the police? Wouldn't it be more convenient to claim that the police did nothing wrong and thus there is not massive, systemic problem that needs to be addressed?
"At this point, the police have 1 objective, and that is to subdue the criminal and get him in handcuffs before he can do anything dangerous."
Before he can do anything dangerous? You mean like selling untaxed cigarettes? Even resisting arrest (and I think you have to be biased to claim that he was resisting arrest) is only a misdemeanor, but honestly I don't even think that's relevant. The police should only use force in the manner they did if they know someone's life is in danger. I don't fucking care, if you can't arrest a petty criminal (and selling untaxed cigarettes is pretty fucking small time) without killing him then you're either a complete fucking psycho, incredibly incompetent or both. I honestly don't understand how people can defend this shit.
I don't care if criminals actually lie about not being able to breathe (I don't really understand why you think this is some kind of trick), sometimes they have to be given the benefit of the doubt. More importantly, If you're choking someone and pressing them onto a concrete surface stomach first AND you hear them struggle to get out the words "I can't breathe" you should probably be smart enough to realize that they really can't breathe.
I really hate the hidden weapon argument, because it could apply to anyone in any situation. The idea that police officers are in constant danger from people pulling hidden weapons doesn't seem to have much basis in reality either. Last year the number of police officers killed by firearms dropped to a 54 year low (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/30/law-enforcement-deaths/4247393/) so its not like they're dropping like flies out there.
Ah yes, the personal fitness argument. You have to get yourself in good shape psychically or how will you survive police brutality?
Do you really not think the police could have handled the situation any better?
SpaceCadetboppetSpaceCadetWhen you resist arrest you are inviting trouble for yourself. In these cases they got death.Come on Spacecadet, you can't be this blind. His hands were literally up when they grabbed hold of him. He did not hit them. He didn't run. At best he swatted the officer who was standing in front of him by the hand once. Then they grabbed him without probable cause (it wasn't proven whether he had recently sold the untaxed cigs or not) and pulled him down to chokehold (which is banned by the NYPD) and died from it.
When an officer, or in the NYC case a group of officers, tells you to do something. Just fucking listen.
The time to tell your side will come but not until they have removed you from being a threat. It is really plain and simple to understand.
I don't know in what world where arguing with an officer nonviolently and hitting someone's hand away warrants being choked to death. Even the medical examiner called it a homicide - the officers should at least be charged with assault, and Pantaleo for manslaughter.
Ok, I understand that 95% of the ppl here and on the news just want to bash the police because it is convenient. This is what I see.
1- The police were there cause he was supposedly caught doing something illegal.
2- He was going to get arrested on that basis. He knew that fact and so did the police.
3- At this point, the police have 1 objective, and that is to subdue the criminal and get him in handcuffs before he can do anything dangerous.
4- That does NOT mean there is any discussion required between the police and the criminal so he can get arrested at his leisure.
5- He made a (fatal) decision to resist arrest by saying "Don't Touch me" over and over. His better choice would have been to get arrested and call his lawyer.
6- His saying "I can't breathe" over and over is one of many overused things people say when police need to get physical with criminals. Most times people complain about one thing or another wrong with their body when that happens. It is akin to "crying wolf" since everyone does it all the time.
The bottom line is, police can't take chances with anyone these days. Look at it from the police point of view. This guy could have a hidden weapon at any place on his person. Until the police get him in cuffs and searched, he is a potential threat.
This guy's death was unfortunate and was totally avoidable. His decision to resist arrest is the major issue. His Asthma and overweight body contributed heavily to his death as well. If he was innocent, it can be proven in court, then he can sue and get paid. On the street, you can't argue with police in these situations. You have to pick your battles and play things smart. This guy made a mistake and caused a physical confrontation that his medical issues could not handle causing his death.
I don't really understand how you can see something different than other people, There's a video of this shit, clear as day.
How is bashing the police convenient? I for one would love to see some police saving a woman from a burglar, or rescuing a little girl, but you have to accept that cops aren't infallible beings.
Your blaming of the victim is massively out of whack; since when should saying 'Don't touch me' warrant having the life choked from you and your head stamped into the sidewalk? Eric Garner made a mistake? Not the guy who performed a banned chokehold on a man who committed nothing more than a misdemeanor? He didn't even have cigarettes on him that day. What threat was Garner to the cops? He showed no signs of physical aggression whatsoever. By your logic from 1 and 2 of your 'points', should I have 5 policemen pinning me down when I jaywalk?
What does it take for you to think the police did something wrong?
[quote=SpaceCadet][quote=boppet][quote=SpaceCadet]When you resist arrest you are inviting trouble for yourself. In these cases they got death.
When an officer, or in the NYC case a group of officers, tells you to do something. Just fucking listen.
The time to tell your side will come but not until they have removed you from being a threat. It is really plain and simple to understand.[/quote]
Come on Spacecadet, you can't be this blind. His [i]hands were literally up[/i] when they grabbed hold of him. He did not hit them. He didn't run. At best he swatted the officer who was standing in front of him by the hand once. Then they grabbed him without probable cause (it wasn't proven whether he had recently sold the untaxed cigs or not) and pulled him down to chokehold (which is banned by the NYPD) and died from it.
I don't know in what world where arguing with an officer nonviolently and hitting someone's hand away warrants being choked to death. Even the medical examiner called it a homicide - the officers should at least be charged with assault, and Pantaleo for manslaughter.[/quote]
Ok, I understand that 95% of the ppl here and on the news just want to bash the police because it is convenient. This is what I see.
1- The police were there cause he was supposedly caught doing something illegal.
2- He was going to get arrested on that basis. He knew that fact and so did the police.
3- At this point, the police have 1 objective, and that is to subdue the criminal and get him in handcuffs before he can do anything dangerous.
4- That does NOT mean there is any discussion required between the police and the criminal so he can get arrested at his leisure.
5- He made a (fatal) decision to resist arrest by saying "Don't Touch me" over and over. His better choice would have been to get arrested and call his lawyer.
6- His saying "I can't breathe" over and over is one of many overused things people say when police need to get physical with criminals. Most times people complain about one thing or another wrong with their body when that happens. It is akin to "crying wolf" since everyone does it all the time.
The bottom line is, police can't take chances with anyone these days. Look at it from the police point of view. This guy could have a hidden weapon at any place on his person. Until the police get him in cuffs and searched, he is a potential threat.
This guy's death was unfortunate and was totally avoidable. His decision to resist arrest is the major issue. His Asthma and overweight body contributed heavily to his death as well. If he was innocent, it can be proven in court, then he can sue and get paid. On the street, you can't argue with police in these situations. You have to pick your battles and play things smart. This guy made a mistake and caused a physical confrontation that his medical issues could not handle causing his death.[/quote]
I don't really understand how you can [i]see[/i] something different than other people, There's a video of this shit, clear as day.
How is bashing the police convenient? I for one would love to see some police saving a woman from a burglar, or rescuing a little girl, but you have to accept that cops aren't infallible beings.
Your blaming of the victim is massively out of whack; since when should saying 'Don't touch me' warrant having the life choked from you and your head stamped into the sidewalk? Eric Garner made a mistake? Not the guy who performed a [i]banned chokehold[/i] on a man who committed nothing more than a misdemeanor? He didn't even have cigarettes on him that day. What threat was Garner to the cops? He showed no signs of physical aggression whatsoever. By your logic from 1 and 2 of your 'points', should I have 5 policemen pinning me down when I jaywalk?
What does it take for you to think the police did something wrong?
When an officer, or in the NYC case a group of officers, tells you to do something. Just fucking listen.
The time to tell your side will come but not until they have removed you from being a threat. It is really plain and simple to understand.[/quote]
Come on Spacecadet, you can't be this blind. His [i]hands were literally up[/i] when they grabbed hold of him. He did not hit them. He didn't run. At best he swatted the officer who was standing in front of him by the hand once. Then they grabbed him without probable cause (it wasn't proven whether he had recently sold the untaxed cigs or not) and pulled him down to chokehold (which is banned by the NYPD) and died from it.
I don't know in what world where arguing with an officer nonviolently and hitting someone's hand away warrants being choked to death. Even the medical examiner called it a homicide - the officers should at least be charged with assault, and Pantaleo for manslaughter.[/quote]
Ok, I understand that 95% of the ppl here and on the news just want to bash the police because it is convenient. This is what I see.
1- The police were there cause he was supposedly caught doing something illegal.
2- He was going to get arrested on that basis. He knew that fact and so did the police.
3- At this point, the police have 1 objective, and that is to subdue the criminal and get him in handcuffs before he can do anything dangerous.
4- That does NOT mean there is any discussion required between the police and the criminal so he can get arrested at his leisure.
5- He made a (fatal) decision to resist arrest by saying "Don't Touch me" over and over. His better choice would have been to get arrested and call his lawyer.
6- His saying "I can't breathe" over and over is one of many overused things people say when police need to get physical with criminals. Most times people complain about one thing or another wrong with their body when that happens. It is akin to "crying wolf" since everyone does it all the time.
The bottom line is, police can't take chances with anyone these days. Look at it from the police point of view. This guy could have a hidden weapon at any place on his person. Until the police get him in cuffs and searched, he is a potential threat.
This guy's death was unfortunate and was totally avoidable. His decision to resist arrest is the major issue. His Asthma and overweight body contributed heavily to his death as well. If he was innocent, it can be proven in court, then he can sue and get paid. On the street, you can't argue with police in these situations. You have to pick your battles and play things smart. This guy made a mistake and caused a physical confrontation that his medical issues could not handle causing his death.[/quote]
I don't really understand how you can [i]see[/i] something different than other people, There's a video of this shit, clear as day.
How is bashing the police convenient? I for one would love to see some police saving a woman from a burglar, or rescuing a little girl, but you have to accept that cops aren't infallible beings.
Your blaming of the victim is massively out of whack; since when should saying 'Don't touch me' warrant having the life choked from you and your head stamped into the sidewalk? Eric Garner made a mistake? Not the guy who performed a [i]banned chokehold[/i] on a man who committed nothing more than a misdemeanor? He didn't even have cigarettes on him that day. What threat was Garner to the cops? He showed no signs of physical aggression whatsoever. By your logic from 1 and 2 of your 'points', should I have 5 policemen pinning me down when I jaywalk?
What does it take for you to think the police did something wrong?
boppetSpaceCadetI don't really understand how you can see something different than other people, There's a video of this shit, clear as day.boppetSpaceCadetWhen you resist arrest you are inviting trouble for yourself. In these cases they got death.Come on Spacecadet, you can't be this blind. His hands were literally up when they grabbed hold of him. He did not hit them. He didn't run. At best he swatted the officer who was standing in front of him by the hand once. Then they grabbed him without probable cause (it wasn't proven whether he had recently sold the untaxed cigs or not) and pulled him down to chokehold (which is banned by the NYPD) and died from it.
When an officer, or in the NYC case a group of officers, tells you to do something. Just fucking listen.
The time to tell your side will come but not until they have removed you from being a threat. It is really plain and simple to understand.
I don't know in what world where arguing with an officer nonviolently and hitting someone's hand away warrants being choked to death. Even the medical examiner called it a homicide - the officers should at least be charged with assault, and Pantaleo for manslaughter.
Ok, I understand that 95% of the ppl here and on the news just want to bash the police because it is convenient. This is what I see.
1- The police were there cause he was supposedly caught doing something illegal.
2- He was going to get arrested on that basis. He knew that fact and so did the police.
3- At this point, the police have 1 objective, and that is to subdue the criminal and get him in handcuffs before he can do anything dangerous.
4- That does NOT mean there is any discussion required between the police and the criminal so he can get arrested at his leisure.
5- He made a (fatal) decision to resist arrest by saying "Don't Touch me" over and over. His better choice would have been to get arrested and call his lawyer.
6- His saying "I can't breathe" over and over is one of many overused things people say when police need to get physical with criminals. Most times people complain about one thing or another wrong with their body when that happens. It is akin to "crying wolf" since everyone does it all the time.
The bottom line is, police can't take chances with anyone these days. Look at it from the police point of view. This guy could have a hidden weapon at any place on his person. Until the police get him in cuffs and searched, he is a potential threat.
This guy's death was unfortunate and was totally avoidable. His decision to resist arrest is the major issue. His Asthma and overweight body contributed heavily to his death as well. If he was innocent, it can be proven in court, then he can sue and get paid. On the street, you can't argue with police in these situations. You have to pick your battles and play things smart. This guy made a mistake and caused a physical confrontation that his medical issues could not handle causing his death.
How is bashing the police convenient? I for one would love to see some police saving a woman from a burglar, or rescuing a little girl, but you have to accept that cops aren't infallible beings.
Your blaming of the victim is massively out of whack; since when should saying 'Don't touch me' warrant having the life choked from you and your head stamped into the sidewalk? Eric Garner made a mistake? Not the guy who performed a banned chokehold on a man who committed nothing more than a misdemeanor? He didn't even have cigarettes on him that day. What threat was Garner to the cops? He showed no signs of physical aggression whatsoever. By your logic from 1 and 2 of your 'points', should I have 5 policemen pinning me down when I jaywalk?
What does it take for you to think the police did something wrong?
You should watch the whole video of this incident and not just the 10 second edit showing the takedown and choke hold. For at least 3-5 minutes ,prior to the physical stuff, the police were simply talking and giving instructions. The police were not being aggressive in any manner. This guy was getting more and more agitated as the seconds passed. When people act that way, it raises the tension level for everyone involved. He could snap and go for a weapon at any second.
Like I said before. If he was innocent (and he may well have been), then he should have taken them to court and got paid. At most, he would have been taken to the police station and detained for a few hours and let go. You can't fight or resist arrest on the spot, it is NEVER going to work and it has NOTHING to do with his skin color.
When the police have determined you have to be detained or arrested for whatever reason, they do not have to sit around and wait for you to decide when you want to be arrested. They have a job to do and it is dangerous and can cost a life in a moments notice. If you show resistance during the process, you are going to be forcefully detained. Go watch the whole video and face the facts, this guy resisted arrest.
[quote=boppet][quote=SpaceCadet][quote=boppet][quote=SpaceCadet]When you resist arrest you are inviting trouble for yourself. In these cases they got death.
When an officer, or in the NYC case a group of officers, tells you to do something. Just fucking listen.
The time to tell your side will come but not until they have removed you from being a threat. It is really plain and simple to understand.[/quote]
Come on Spacecadet, you can't be this blind. His [i]hands were literally up[/i] when they grabbed hold of him. He did not hit them. He didn't run. At best he swatted the officer who was standing in front of him by the hand once. Then they grabbed him without probable cause (it wasn't proven whether he had recently sold the untaxed cigs or not) and pulled him down to chokehold (which is banned by the NYPD) and died from it.
I don't know in what world where arguing with an officer nonviolently and hitting someone's hand away warrants being choked to death. Even the medical examiner called it a homicide - the officers should at least be charged with assault, and Pantaleo for manslaughter.[/quote]
Ok, I understand that 95% of the ppl here and on the news just want to bash the police because it is convenient. This is what I see.
1- The police were there cause he was supposedly caught doing something illegal.
2- He was going to get arrested on that basis. He knew that fact and so did the police.
3- At this point, the police have 1 objective, and that is to subdue the criminal and get him in handcuffs before he can do anything dangerous.
4- That does NOT mean there is any discussion required between the police and the criminal so he can get arrested at his leisure.
5- He made a (fatal) decision to resist arrest by saying "Don't Touch me" over and over. His better choice would have been to get arrested and call his lawyer.
6- His saying "I can't breathe" over and over is one of many overused things people say when police need to get physical with criminals. Most times people complain about one thing or another wrong with their body when that happens. It is akin to "crying wolf" since everyone does it all the time.
The bottom line is, police can't take chances with anyone these days. Look at it from the police point of view. This guy could have a hidden weapon at any place on his person. Until the police get him in cuffs and searched, he is a potential threat.
This guy's death was unfortunate and was totally avoidable. His decision to resist arrest is the major issue. His Asthma and overweight body contributed heavily to his death as well. If he was innocent, it can be proven in court, then he can sue and get paid. On the street, you can't argue with police in these situations. You have to pick your battles and play things smart. This guy made a mistake and caused a physical confrontation that his medical issues could not handle causing his death.[/quote]
I don't really understand how you can [i]see[/i] something different than other people, There's a video of this shit, clear as day.
How is bashing the police convenient? I for one would love to see some police saving a woman from a burglar, or rescuing a little girl, but you have to accept that cops aren't infallible beings.
Your blaming of the victim is massively out of whack; since when should saying 'Don't touch me' warrant having the life choked from you and your head stamped into the sidewalk? Eric Garner made a mistake? Not the guy who performed a [i]banned chokehold[/i] on a man who committed nothing more than a misdemeanor? He didn't even have cigarettes on him that day. What threat was Garner to the cops? He showed no signs of physical aggression whatsoever. By your logic from 1 and 2 of your 'points', should I have 5 policemen pinning me down when I jaywalk?
What does it take for you to think the police did something wrong?[/quote]
You should watch the whole video of this incident and not just the 10 second edit showing the takedown and choke hold. For at least 3-5 minutes ,prior to the physical stuff, the police were simply talking and giving instructions. The police were not being aggressive in any manner. This guy was getting more and more agitated as the seconds passed. When people act that way, it raises the tension level for everyone involved. He could snap and go for a weapon at any second.
Like I said before. If he was innocent (and he may well have been), then he should have taken them to court and got paid. At most, he would have been taken to the police station and detained for a few hours and let go. You can't fight or resist arrest on the spot, it is NEVER going to work and it has NOTHING to do with his skin color.
When the police have determined you have to be detained or arrested for whatever reason, they do not have to sit around and wait for you to decide when you want to be arrested. They have a job to do and it is dangerous and can cost a life in a moments notice. If you show resistance during the process, you are going to be forcefully detained. Go watch the whole video and face the facts, this guy resisted arrest.
When an officer, or in the NYC case a group of officers, tells you to do something. Just fucking listen.
The time to tell your side will come but not until they have removed you from being a threat. It is really plain and simple to understand.[/quote]
Come on Spacecadet, you can't be this blind. His [i]hands were literally up[/i] when they grabbed hold of him. He did not hit them. He didn't run. At best he swatted the officer who was standing in front of him by the hand once. Then they grabbed him without probable cause (it wasn't proven whether he had recently sold the untaxed cigs or not) and pulled him down to chokehold (which is banned by the NYPD) and died from it.
I don't know in what world where arguing with an officer nonviolently and hitting someone's hand away warrants being choked to death. Even the medical examiner called it a homicide - the officers should at least be charged with assault, and Pantaleo for manslaughter.[/quote]
Ok, I understand that 95% of the ppl here and on the news just want to bash the police because it is convenient. This is what I see.
1- The police were there cause he was supposedly caught doing something illegal.
2- He was going to get arrested on that basis. He knew that fact and so did the police.
3- At this point, the police have 1 objective, and that is to subdue the criminal and get him in handcuffs before he can do anything dangerous.
4- That does NOT mean there is any discussion required between the police and the criminal so he can get arrested at his leisure.
5- He made a (fatal) decision to resist arrest by saying "Don't Touch me" over and over. His better choice would have been to get arrested and call his lawyer.
6- His saying "I can't breathe" over and over is one of many overused things people say when police need to get physical with criminals. Most times people complain about one thing or another wrong with their body when that happens. It is akin to "crying wolf" since everyone does it all the time.
The bottom line is, police can't take chances with anyone these days. Look at it from the police point of view. This guy could have a hidden weapon at any place on his person. Until the police get him in cuffs and searched, he is a potential threat.
This guy's death was unfortunate and was totally avoidable. His decision to resist arrest is the major issue. His Asthma and overweight body contributed heavily to his death as well. If he was innocent, it can be proven in court, then he can sue and get paid. On the street, you can't argue with police in these situations. You have to pick your battles and play things smart. This guy made a mistake and caused a physical confrontation that his medical issues could not handle causing his death.[/quote]
I don't really understand how you can [i]see[/i] something different than other people, There's a video of this shit, clear as day.
How is bashing the police convenient? I for one would love to see some police saving a woman from a burglar, or rescuing a little girl, but you have to accept that cops aren't infallible beings.
Your blaming of the victim is massively out of whack; since when should saying 'Don't touch me' warrant having the life choked from you and your head stamped into the sidewalk? Eric Garner made a mistake? Not the guy who performed a [i]banned chokehold[/i] on a man who committed nothing more than a misdemeanor? He didn't even have cigarettes on him that day. What threat was Garner to the cops? He showed no signs of physical aggression whatsoever. By your logic from 1 and 2 of your 'points', should I have 5 policemen pinning me down when I jaywalk?
What does it take for you to think the police did something wrong?[/quote]
You should watch the whole video of this incident and not just the 10 second edit showing the takedown and choke hold. For at least 3-5 minutes ,prior to the physical stuff, the police were simply talking and giving instructions. The police were not being aggressive in any manner. This guy was getting more and more agitated as the seconds passed. When people act that way, it raises the tension level for everyone involved. He could snap and go for a weapon at any second.
Like I said before. If he was innocent (and he may well have been), then he should have taken them to court and got paid. At most, he would have been taken to the police station and detained for a few hours and let go. You can't fight or resist arrest on the spot, it is NEVER going to work and it has NOTHING to do with his skin color.
When the police have determined you have to be detained or arrested for whatever reason, they do not have to sit around and wait for you to decide when you want to be arrested. They have a job to do and it is dangerous and can cost a life in a moments notice. If you show resistance during the process, you are going to be forcefully detained. Go watch the whole video and face the facts, this guy resisted arrest.
spacecadet your name rings true every single thought you put into this is hurting my brain please stop being such an idiot. can you even comprehend the thought of killing another human being? you keep trying to create all these stupid scenarios and false notions when in reality the person is dead. 4 cops with zero injuries that had no problem taking him down and now hes dead. good luck living with that on your conscious.
i seriously doubt your belief system would be the same if this happened to someone close to you like a family member. police brutality is real stop being so god damn naive, you're the type of person that thinks everyone else is wrong until something awful happens to you. please wake up
spacecadet your name rings true every single thought you put into this is hurting my brain please stop being such an idiot. can you even comprehend the thought of killing another human being? you keep trying to create all these stupid scenarios and false notions when in reality the person is dead. 4 cops with zero injuries that had no problem taking him down and now hes dead. good luck living with that on your conscious.
i seriously doubt your belief system would be the same if this happened to someone close to you like a family member. police brutality is real stop being so god damn naive, you're the type of person that thinks everyone else is wrong until something awful happens to you. please wake up
i seriously doubt your belief system would be the same if this happened to someone close to you like a family member. police brutality is real stop being so god damn naive, you're the type of person that thinks everyone else is wrong until something awful happens to you. please wake up
defyspacecadet your name rings true every single thought you put into this is hurting my brain please stop being such an idiot. can you even comprehend the thought of killing another human being? you keep trying to create all these stupid scenarios and false notions when in reality the person is dead. 4 cops with zero injuries that had no problem taking him down and now hes dead. good luck living with that on your conscious.
i seriously doubt your belief system would be the same if this happened to someone close to you like a family member. police brutality is real stop being so god damn naive, you're the type of person that thinks everyone else is wrong until something awful happens to you. please wake up
Right, because you know me so well. I am not some 15 year old who plays TF2 all day and posts on the boards for fun. I have been in several potentially fatal situations in my life, I have been in jail so I have first hand experience with police on this level.
If you want to go around listening to the media all day and let them determine your opinions for you, then that is your right. Never once did I say police brutality does not happen.
If this guy would have pulled out a gun and accidentally shot a little kid instead of the police, you and others in the media would be the first people to point that same finger at the police and say "Why did they wait so long to get him in cuffs?".
Essentially most view points are simple based on what is popular at the moment. The media is a perfect example. Anything that has popular opinion is the view point media will support because they fear the backlash on a business level. Media never goes against popular opinion but they are very quick to add fuel to any fire.
I don't allow emotions or the opinions of others to make my decisions. I look at the facts and do it for myself.
[quote=defy]spacecadet your name rings true every single thought you put into this is hurting my brain please stop being such an idiot. can you even comprehend the thought of killing another human being? you keep trying to create all these stupid scenarios and false notions when in reality the person is dead. 4 cops with zero injuries that had no problem taking him down and now hes dead. good luck living with that on your conscious.
i seriously doubt your belief system would be the same if this happened to someone close to you like a family member. police brutality is real stop being so god damn naive, you're the type of person that thinks everyone else is wrong until something awful happens to you. please wake up[/quote]
Right, because you know me so well. I am not some 15 year old who plays TF2 all day and posts on the boards for fun. I have been in several potentially fatal situations in my life, I have been in jail so I have first hand experience with police on this level.
If you want to go around listening to the media all day and let them determine your opinions for you, then that is your right. Never once did I say police brutality does not happen.
If this guy would have pulled out a gun and accidentally shot a little kid instead of the police, you and others in the media would be the first people to point that same finger at the police and say "Why did they wait so long to get him in cuffs?".
Essentially most view points are simple based on what is popular at the moment. The media is a perfect example. Anything that has popular opinion is the view point media will support because they fear the backlash on a business level. Media never goes against popular opinion but they are very quick to add fuel to any fire.
I don't allow emotions or the opinions of others to make my decisions. I look at the facts and do it for myself.
i seriously doubt your belief system would be the same if this happened to someone close to you like a family member. police brutality is real stop being so god damn naive, you're the type of person that thinks everyone else is wrong until something awful happens to you. please wake up[/quote]
Right, because you know me so well. I am not some 15 year old who plays TF2 all day and posts on the boards for fun. I have been in several potentially fatal situations in my life, I have been in jail so I have first hand experience with police on this level.
If you want to go around listening to the media all day and let them determine your opinions for you, then that is your right. Never once did I say police brutality does not happen.
If this guy would have pulled out a gun and accidentally shot a little kid instead of the police, you and others in the media would be the first people to point that same finger at the police and say "Why did they wait so long to get him in cuffs?".
Essentially most view points are simple based on what is popular at the moment. The media is a perfect example. Anything that has popular opinion is the view point media will support because they fear the backlash on a business level. Media never goes against popular opinion but they are very quick to add fuel to any fire.
I don't allow emotions or the opinions of others to make my decisions. I look at the facts and do it for myself.
If this guy would have pulled out a gun and accidentally shot a little kid instead of the police, you and others in the media would be the first people to point that same finger at the police and say "Why did they wait so long to get him in cuffs?".
you keep going on and on with all these asinine "what if" scenarios, there is no what if when a man is dead. thanks for proving my point of being completely thick headed. also what facts are you looking at? you have no concrete argument you're just long winded and talking out of your ass. stop droning on about the media my post was directed completely towards your thoughts and thats it.
[quote]If this guy would have pulled out a gun and accidentally shot a little kid instead of the police, you and others in the media would be the first people to point that same finger at the police and say "Why did they wait so long to get him in cuffs?".[/quote]
you keep going on and on with all these asinine "what if" scenarios, there is no what if when a man is dead. thanks for proving my point of being completely thick headed. also what facts are you looking at? you have no concrete argument you're just long winded and talking out of your ass. stop droning on about the media my post was directed completely towards your thoughts and thats it.
you keep going on and on with all these asinine "what if" scenarios, there is no what if when a man is dead. thanks for proving my point of being completely thick headed. also what facts are you looking at? you have no concrete argument you're just long winded and talking out of your ass. stop droning on about the media my post was directed completely towards your thoughts and thats it.
defyIf this guy would have pulled out a gun and accidentally shot a little kid instead of the police, you and others in the media would be the first people to point that same finger at the police and say "Why did they wait so long to get him in cuffs?".
you keep going on and on with all these asinine "what if" scenarios, there is no what if when a man is dead. thanks for proving my point of being completely thick headed. also what facts are you looking at? you have no concrete argument you're just long winded and talking out of your ass. stop droning on about the media my post was directed completely towards your thoughts and thats it.
That was infact, the only single "what if" thing I have said in any of my posts. Can you point out another?
You also dodged my main point with that "asinine scenario" that could have easily been reality. I did point out several facts, you on the other hand have said nothing of substance related to what happened to this guy.
[quote=defy][quote]If this guy would have pulled out a gun and accidentally shot a little kid instead of the police, you and others in the media would be the first people to point that same finger at the police and say "Why did they wait so long to get him in cuffs?".[/quote]
you keep going on and on with all these asinine "what if" scenarios, there is no what if when a man is dead. thanks for proving my point of being completely thick headed. also what facts are you looking at? you have no concrete argument you're just long winded and talking out of your ass. stop droning on about the media my post was directed completely towards your thoughts and thats it.[/quote]
That was infact, the only single "what if" thing I have said in any of my posts. Can you point out another?
You also dodged my main point with that "asinine scenario" that could have easily been reality. I did point out several facts, you on the other hand have said nothing of substance related to what happened to this guy.
you keep going on and on with all these asinine "what if" scenarios, there is no what if when a man is dead. thanks for proving my point of being completely thick headed. also what facts are you looking at? you have no concrete argument you're just long winded and talking out of your ass. stop droning on about the media my post was directed completely towards your thoughts and thats it.[/quote]
That was infact, the only single "what if" thing I have said in any of my posts. Can you point out another?
You also dodged my main point with that "asinine scenario" that could have easily been reality. I did point out several facts, you on the other hand have said nothing of substance related to what happened to this guy.
SpaceCadet
You also dodged my main point with that "asinine scenario" that could have easily been reality.
The fuck are you talking about, he was on the ground with 5+ cops on top of him and he was still being choked out. How was he still a threat at that point?
[quote=SpaceCadet]
You also dodged my main point with that "asinine scenario" that could have easily been reality. [/quote]
The fuck are you talking about, he was on the ground with 5+ cops on top of him and he was still being choked out. How was he still a threat at that point?
You also dodged my main point with that "asinine scenario" that could have easily been reality. [/quote]
The fuck are you talking about, he was on the ground with 5+ cops on top of him and he was still being choked out. How was he still a threat at that point?
SouthpawSpaceCadet
You also dodged my main point with that "asinine scenario" that could have easily been reality.
The fuck are you talking about, he was on the ground with 5+ cops on top of him and he was still being choked out. How was he still a threat at that point?
I doubt you read anything I posted if that is all you have to say. Like I said in my other posts which you did not read. Watch the ENTIRE video and not just the 7 seconds you saw on CNN.
[quote=Southpaw][quote=SpaceCadet]
You also dodged my main point with that "asinine scenario" that could have easily been reality. [/quote]
The fuck are you talking about, he was on the ground with 5+ cops on top of him and he was still being choked out. How was he still a threat at that point?[/quote]
I doubt you read anything I posted if that is all you have to say. Like I said in my other posts which you did not read. Watch the ENTIRE video and not just the 7 seconds you saw on CNN.
You also dodged my main point with that "asinine scenario" that could have easily been reality. [/quote]
The fuck are you talking about, he was on the ground with 5+ cops on top of him and he was still being choked out. How was he still a threat at that point?[/quote]
I doubt you read anything I posted if that is all you have to say. Like I said in my other posts which you did not read. Watch the ENTIRE video and not just the 7 seconds you saw on CNN.
SpaceCadetYou should watch the whole video of this incident and not just the 10 second edit showing the takedown and choke hold. For at least 3-5 minutes ,prior to the physical stuff, the police were simply talking and giving instructions. The police were not being aggressive in any manner. This guy was getting more and more agitated as the seconds passed. When people act that way, it raises the tension level for everyone involved. He could snap and go for a weapon at any second.
Like I said before. If he was innocent (and he may well have been), then he should have taken them to court and got paid. At most, he would have been taken to the police station and detained for a few hours and let go. You can't fight or resist arrest on the spot, it is NEVER going to work and it has NOTHING to do with his skin color.
When the police have determined you have to be detained or arrested for whatever reason, they do not have to sit around and wait for you to decide when you want to be arrested. They have a job to do and it is dangerous and can cost a life in a moments notice. If you show resistance during the process, you are going to be forcefully detained. Go watch the whole video and face the facts, this guy resisted arrest.
Please stop with the hypothetical argument, just because someone is angry and agitated does not mean they are going to pull an invisible weapon out of thin air - Garner did not make any violent advances whatsoever.
If someone, even an officer, puts you in a chokehold, would you not do everything to get him off of you? Even if you make the argument of him resisting arrest, you can't account for the fact that the man repeatedly said that he could not breathe, (while having a banned chokehold on him) and having your head crushed into a sidewalk does not help the arrest. Even after he goes limp, the officers made no attempt to perform CPR or show no haste in calling medical assistance until too late.
After he is dead, they have the AUDACITY to talk to this man as if he was alive - telling his dead body "to help us so we can help you". The lady checked his pulse, who obviously at that moment realized he was dead.
Eric Garner NEVER attacked any of the officers and never showed a threat. He never touched any of the police officers. Even while Garner was being taken down, he still did NOT try to get away or attack any of the officers. He was never a threat was killed. The officer on the chokehold SHOULD HAVE in my opinion, pay for this. Even if he didn't mean to kill him, he made a wrong decision and there are consequences to that, such as manslaughter etc.
Also, do you know why people are so angry about these cases? It's because he wasn't even indicted. It's one thing to go to trial and be found not guilty. I'm sure people will be more open to that, (despite the anger it may still cause) But not being able to even ENTERTAIN THE IDEA that something wrong was done, they brush it off as a non-controversy.
[quote=SpaceCadet]
You should watch the whole video of this incident and not just the 10 second edit showing the takedown and choke hold. For at least 3-5 minutes ,prior to the physical stuff, the police were simply talking and giving instructions. The police were not being aggressive in any manner. This guy was getting more and more agitated as the seconds passed. When people act that way, it raises the tension level for everyone involved. He could snap and go for a weapon at any second.
Like I said before. If he was innocent (and he may well have been), then he should have taken them to court and got paid. At most, he would have been taken to the police station and detained for a few hours and let go. You can't fight or resist arrest on the spot, it is NEVER going to work and it has NOTHING to do with his skin color.
When the police have determined you have to be detained or arrested for whatever reason, they do not have to sit around and wait for you to decide when you want to be arrested. They have a job to do and it is dangerous and can cost a life in a moments notice. If you show resistance during the process, you are going to be forcefully detained. Go watch the whole video and face the facts, this guy resisted arrest.[/quote]
Please stop with the hypothetical argument, just because someone is angry and agitated does not mean they are going to pull an invisible weapon out of thin air - Garner did not make any violent advances whatsoever.
If someone, even an officer, puts you in a chokehold, would you not do everything to get him off of you? Even if you make the argument of him resisting arrest, you can't account for the fact that the man repeatedly said that he could not breathe, (while having a banned chokehold on him) and having your head crushed into a sidewalk does not help the arrest. Even after he goes limp, the officers made no attempt to perform CPR or show no haste in calling medical assistance until too late.
After he is dead, they have the AUDACITY to talk to this man as if he was alive - telling his [i]dead body[/i] "to help us so we can help you". The lady checked his pulse, who obviously at that moment realized he was dead.
Eric Garner NEVER attacked any of the officers and never showed a threat. He never touched any of the police officers. Even while Garner was being taken down, he still did NOT try to get away or attack any of the officers. He was never a threat was killed. The officer on the chokehold SHOULD HAVE in my opinion, pay for this. Even if he didn't mean to kill him, he made a wrong decision and there are consequences to that, such as manslaughter etc.
Also, do you know [i]why[/i] people are so angry about these cases? It's because he wasn't even [i]indicted[/i]. It's one thing to go to trial and be found not guilty. I'm sure people will be more open to that, (despite the anger it may still cause) But not being able to even ENTERTAIN THE IDEA that something wrong was done, they brush it off as a non-controversy.
You should watch the whole video of this incident and not just the 10 second edit showing the takedown and choke hold. For at least 3-5 minutes ,prior to the physical stuff, the police were simply talking and giving instructions. The police were not being aggressive in any manner. This guy was getting more and more agitated as the seconds passed. When people act that way, it raises the tension level for everyone involved. He could snap and go for a weapon at any second.
Like I said before. If he was innocent (and he may well have been), then he should have taken them to court and got paid. At most, he would have been taken to the police station and detained for a few hours and let go. You can't fight or resist arrest on the spot, it is NEVER going to work and it has NOTHING to do with his skin color.
When the police have determined you have to be detained or arrested for whatever reason, they do not have to sit around and wait for you to decide when you want to be arrested. They have a job to do and it is dangerous and can cost a life in a moments notice. If you show resistance during the process, you are going to be forcefully detained. Go watch the whole video and face the facts, this guy resisted arrest.[/quote]
Please stop with the hypothetical argument, just because someone is angry and agitated does not mean they are going to pull an invisible weapon out of thin air - Garner did not make any violent advances whatsoever.
If someone, even an officer, puts you in a chokehold, would you not do everything to get him off of you? Even if you make the argument of him resisting arrest, you can't account for the fact that the man repeatedly said that he could not breathe, (while having a banned chokehold on him) and having your head crushed into a sidewalk does not help the arrest. Even after he goes limp, the officers made no attempt to perform CPR or show no haste in calling medical assistance until too late.
After he is dead, they have the AUDACITY to talk to this man as if he was alive - telling his [i]dead body[/i] "to help us so we can help you". The lady checked his pulse, who obviously at that moment realized he was dead.
Eric Garner NEVER attacked any of the officers and never showed a threat. He never touched any of the police officers. Even while Garner was being taken down, he still did NOT try to get away or attack any of the officers. He was never a threat was killed. The officer on the chokehold SHOULD HAVE in my opinion, pay for this. Even if he didn't mean to kill him, he made a wrong decision and there are consequences to that, such as manslaughter etc.
Also, do you know [i]why[/i] people are so angry about these cases? It's because he wasn't even [i]indicted[/i]. It's one thing to go to trial and be found not guilty. I'm sure people will be more open to that, (despite the anger it may still cause) But not being able to even ENTERTAIN THE IDEA that something wrong was done, they brush it off as a non-controversy.
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