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Advice on Headphones $200-$400
posted in Hardware
1
#1
0 Frags +

I currently have the ATH-M50s and I think they're great, but they're getting a bit worn down. Rather than replacing the outside of them and the pads, I was wondering whether I could get a significant upgrade for less than $400, and use the M50s out and about. Just from looking at reviews I have come up with a few ideas but I'm no expert so I thought I might as well get some opinions from the resident tf2 audiophiles.

I currently have the ATH-M50s and I think they're great, but they're getting a bit worn down. Rather than replacing the outside of them and the pads, I was wondering whether I could get a significant upgrade for less than $400, and use the M50s out and about. Just from looking at reviews I have come up with a few ideas but I'm no expert so I thought I might as well get some opinions from the resident tf2 audiophiles.
2
#2
-8 Frags +

Replace the pads, unless you want to upgrade and become a professional sound/voice editor or what ever. ORRRR, if you're absolutely mad, gather $ 1000 more and buy sennheiser 800hd's, I heard those are quite good.

Replace the pads, unless you want to upgrade and become a professional sound/voice editor or what ever. ORRRR, if you're absolutely mad, gather $ 1000 more and buy sennheiser 800hd's, I heard those are quite good.
3
#3
2 Frags +

Wouldn't call myself an audiophile but I do love good sound, currently using Sennheiser HD 598s and I love 'em to bits. Not ideal if you're looking for noise cancelling since they're open-back but they do sound amazing because of it.

Wouldn't call myself an audiophile but I do love good sound, currently using [url=http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sennheiser-High-End-Over-Ear-Circumaural-Headphones/dp/B0042A8CW2/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1407853146&sr=1-1&keywords=sennheiser+598]Sennheiser HD 598s[/url] and I love 'em to bits. Not ideal if you're looking for noise cancelling since they're open-back but they do sound amazing because of it.
4
#4
serveme.tf
1 Frags +

For outside....Sennheiser Momentum or the HD25/Amperior.

Oh wait you want to use the ATH-M50s for outside...

Plenty of options in that case for your new headphones. I love Beyerdynamics 770/880/990 and Sennheiser upper-but-no-kidney-sale-required range.

For outside....Sennheiser Momentum or the HD25/Amperior.

Oh wait you want to use the ATH-M50s for outside...

Plenty of options in that case for your new headphones. I love Beyerdynamics 770/880/990 and Sennheiser upper-but-no-kidney-sale-required range.
5
#5
0 Frags +

I think if you already have decent headphones in the 100$+ price range and you're confortable with them, it's always best to just replace the pads unless you really have a lot of money laying around for a decent upgrade.

I have a pair of Sennheiser hd 280 pro, bought them second hand already 3 years ago, the pads deteriorated like crazy but I just ordered some replacement pads and I think they will be good as new when I get them.

I think if you already have decent headphones in the 100$+ price range and you're confortable with them, it's always best to just replace the pads unless you really have a lot of money laying around for a decent upgrade.

I have a pair of Sennheiser hd 280 pro, bought them second hand already 3 years ago, the pads deteriorated like crazy but I just ordered some replacement pads and I think they will be good as new when I get them.
6
#6
3 Frags +

-open or closed? Open would be an option if you're using the M50s when "out and about"
-over ear or on ear?
-current soundcard/amp/dac?
-any preferences in terms of sound signature?

-open or closed? Open would be an option if you're using the M50s when "out and about"
-over ear or on ear?
-current soundcard/amp/dac?
-any preferences in terms of sound signature?
7
#7
0 Frags +

I'm fine with open, I'm only going to be using them at my desk so that's a possibility.

I prefer over ear for comfort, but if there were some excellent on-ears then that wouldn't completely put me off.

I will be upgrading my soundcard soon so that shouldn't really be a limiting factor, I just got a wad of fat cash and this is what I wanna spend it on because my soundcard at the moment is dogshit and it's driving me insane.

No preference really but if they're particularly bright I'll get a mad headache, I hate that.

I'm fine with open, I'm only going to be using them at my desk so that's a possibility.

I prefer over ear for comfort, but if there were some excellent on-ears then that wouldn't completely put me off.

I will be upgrading my soundcard soon so that shouldn't really be a limiting factor, I just got a wad of fat cash and this is what I wanna spend it on because my soundcard at the moment is dogshit and it's driving me insane.

No preference really but if they're particularly bright I'll get a mad headache, I hate that.
8
#8
1 Frags +

What soundcard will you get? An external dac/amp instead might make sense.
Soundcards are almost always a limiting factor because of their output impedance.

What soundcard will you get? An external dac/amp instead might make sense.
Soundcards are almost always a limiting factor because of their output impedance.
9
#9
1 Frags +

hifiman he-400

+under 400
+good for music, nice soundstage so good for games too
+don't require an amp

-kind of uncomfortable, might take getting used to
-a bit sibilant

an amp gives a lot more options if you're willing to spend $400

really though you should just go to an audio store and try out different pairs and decide what you prefer and not trust people on the internet

hifiman he-400

+under 400
+good for music, nice soundstage so good for games too
+don't require an amp

-kind of uncomfortable, might take getting used to
-a bit sibilant

an amp gives a lot more options if you're willing to spend $400

really though you should just go to an audio store and try out different pairs and decide what you prefer and not trust people on the internet
10
#10
0 Frags +

Problem with that is that the people at shops often have even less of a clue wtf they're talking about. Plus I wanna have some kind of shortlist before I wander into there like a lost lamb ready for them to shove an overpriced pair at me.

I haven't thought about a soundcard yet, and don't know anything about dacs. Brief hand explaining why that'd be best?

Problem with that is that the people at shops often have even less of a clue wtf they're talking about. Plus I wanna have some kind of shortlist before I wander into there like a lost lamb ready for them to shove an overpriced pair at me.

I haven't thought about a soundcard yet, and don't know anything about dacs. Brief hand explaining why that'd be best?
11
#11
1 Frags +
SideshowProblem with that is that the people at shops often have even less of a clue wtf they're talking about.

yeah, they'll probably try and sell you beats or something. Just listen to the canz in your price range and make your own assessment

I haven't thought about a soundcard yet, and don't know anything about dacs. Brief hand explaining why that'd be best?

it's questionable how much difference a dac will make, but when you go over $200 a lot of headphones start requiring amps

[quote=Sideshow]Problem with that is that the people at shops often have even less of a clue wtf they're talking about.[/quote]

yeah, they'll probably try and sell you beats or something. Just listen to the canz in your price range and make your own assessment

[quote]I haven't thought about a soundcard yet, and don't know anything about dacs. Brief hand explaining why that'd be best?[/quote]

it's questionable how much difference a dac will make, but when you go over $200 a lot of headphones start requiring amps
12
#12
0 Frags +

DT880 pros/prem
I have the prems and my brother has the pros (both 250ohm)
+very neutral
+good bass (not overemphasized)
+The 880 prems (more comfortable) are $400 but can be seen as low as $250/300
+880 pros (same drivers) are $380 but as low as $200 on sale
+great build quality
+big soundstage
+VERY comfortable

-open back; they leak sound
-power hungry (somewhat)
-slightly more treble; can be sibilant
-not portable; sound leakage and requires an amp

DT880 pros/prem
I have the prems and my brother has the pros (both 250ohm)
+very neutral
+good bass (not overemphasized)
+The 880 prems (more comfortable) are $400 but can be seen as low as $250/300
+880 pros (same drivers) are $380 but as low as $200 on sale
+great build quality
+big soundstage
+VERY comfortable

-open back; they leak sound
-power hungry (somewhat)
-slightly more treble; can be sibilant
-not portable; sound leakage and requires an amp
13
#13
1 Frags +

The price range you are looking for has a pretty big variety of headphones to choose from so it would be nice to know more than just nothing too bright. What music do you listen to? What do you like to listen to in the music? Vocals, guitar, bass, etc..

All I can really recommend are the top headphones in the category, you will have to do some research on them. HE-400, Sennheiser HD600, Beyerdynamic DT880, MrSpeaker's Mad Dogs and AKG K702 (with a bunch of varieties based on the number).

Since you don't have an amp and every headphone in this category (and above) benefits from one pretty significantly, I highly recommend you budget in an amp into your purchase. The two best cheap ones are the Objective2 amplifier and the Schiit Magni. Don't worry about getting a DAC unless you hear constant static or pops when listening to audio.

The price range you are looking for has a pretty big variety of headphones to choose from so it would be nice to know more than just nothing too bright. What music do you listen to? What do you like to listen to in the music? Vocals, guitar, bass, etc..

All I can really recommend are the top headphones in the category, you will have to do some research on them. HE-400, Sennheiser HD600, Beyerdynamic DT880, MrSpeaker's Mad Dogs and AKG K702 (with a bunch of varieties based on the number).

Since you don't have an amp and every headphone in this category (and above) benefits from one pretty significantly, I highly recommend you budget in an amp into your purchase. The two best cheap ones are the Objective2 amplifier and the Schiit Magni. Don't worry about getting a DAC unless you hear constant static or pops when listening to audio.
14
#14
0 Frags +

Check out the V-Moda M-100 I really like them and they are right in the middle of your price point. I haven't had a listen to too many headphones but this was the one out of sennheisers and audio technicas in this price range that I decided on.

They are definitely better suited to more modern music, not so much rock and jazz, but they still do quite well, and with sound software, you can make the bass sound a little more mild and they will be great, and the sound stage is pretty nice considering they dont have open backs. Noise isolation is good.

They are very comfortable, but they are a little shallow so if you have big ears maybe not.

Also you might need an amp, i never use it with portable electronics so I wouldn't know. It probably says on the website somewhere.

http://v-moda.com/crossfade-m-100/

Check out the V-Moda M-100 I really like them and they are right in the middle of your price point. I haven't had a listen to too many headphones but this was the one out of sennheisers and audio technicas in this price range that I decided on.

They are definitely better suited to more modern music, not so much rock and jazz, but they still do quite well, and with sound software, you can make the bass sound a little more mild and they will be great, and the sound stage is pretty nice considering they dont have open backs. Noise isolation is good.

They are very comfortable, but they are a little shallow so if you have big ears maybe not.

Also you might need an amp, i never use it with portable electronics so I wouldn't know. It probably says on the website somewhere.

http://v-moda.com/crossfade-m-100/
15
#15
0 Frags +

Don't forget fiio e10. They just changed the dac chip in the e10k so it sounds better. $75 dac and amp. Drivss the 880s easily (250 and 600).

Don't forget fiio e10. They just changed the dac chip in the e10k so it sounds better. $75 dac and amp. Drivss the 880s easily (250 and 600).
16
#16
1 Frags +

HE-400 with a soundcard isn't the best idea. They're low impedance and low efficiency, soundcards have high output impedance (10-100 Ohm) and might not be able to provide enough current even though gain isn't a problem. Also the treble on the HE-400 is really harsh.

About dacs and amps:
Basically every soundcard got high output impedance which is bad if you want to use low impedance headphones. Also it might not provide enough current for low efficiency headphones (e.g. Hifiman, see above). That means a lot of the time you'll need an amp. Now if you've got an amp and don't use the soundcard's fancy software features all the sc really does is act as an digital analog converter (DAC). A stand alone DAC is obviously cheaper since you're not paying for features/software you don't use. External DACs also benefit from not being crammed into a PC case full of electric fields.

Including the soundcard how much do you want to spend?

HE-400 with a soundcard isn't the best idea. They're low impedance and low efficiency, soundcards have high output impedance (10-100 Ohm) and might not be able to provide enough current even though gain isn't a problem. Also the treble on the HE-400 is really harsh.

About dacs and amps:
Basically every soundcard got high output impedance which is bad if you want to use low impedance headphones. Also it might not provide enough current for low efficiency headphones (e.g. Hifiman, see above). That means a lot of the time you'll need an amp. Now if you've got an amp and don't use the soundcard's fancy software features all the sc really does is act as an digital analog converter (DAC). A stand alone DAC is obviously cheaper since you're not paying for features/software you don't use. External DACs also benefit from not being crammed into a PC case full of electric fields.

Including the soundcard how much do you want to spend?
17
#17
0 Frags +

For closed back, Sennheiser HD 380 ($200) or Shure SRH940 ($300) are both great bang for the buck, and they fit your price range. Don't need an amp for either of those to get awesome sound.

If you are looking for open back headset..for $400 you can get Sennheiser HD600's, but you'll need an amp as well unless you have an ASUS Xonar card with the built in amp. Good open headsets after this get considerably pricey (Audeze, Gradio, and the top end Hi-Fi and Senneheiser's).

I worked several years in a studio as a side job in my early 20's and got to test a lot of cool audiophile gear out. From personal experience, closed back are the overall better choice if your primary use is going to be games. No sound leak, good isolation, and you still get great overall sound. Open back are more for a natural music experience, large sound stage, and more accurate instrument separation.

For closed back, Sennheiser HD 380 ($200) or Shure SRH940 ($300) are both great bang for the buck, and they fit your price range. Don't need an amp for either of those to get awesome sound.

If you are looking for open back headset..for $400 you can get Sennheiser HD600's, but you'll need an amp as well unless you have an ASUS Xonar card with the built in amp. Good open headsets after this get considerably pricey (Audeze, Gradio, and the top end Hi-Fi and Senneheiser's).

I worked several years in a studio as a side job in my early 20's and got to test a lot of cool audiophile gear out. From personal experience, closed back are the overall better choice if your primary use is going to be games. No sound leak, good isolation, and you still get great overall sound. Open back are more for a natural music experience, large sound stage, and more accurate instrument separation.
18
#18
0 Frags +

imo it's best to just get a dac/amp combo or a dac and amp. You shouldn't ve processing audio inside your pc; too much can go wrong. Plus, you can take it between systems with ease.

imo it's best to just get a dac/amp combo or a dac and amp. You shouldn't ve processing audio inside your pc; too much can go wrong. Plus, you can take it between systems with ease.
19
#19
1 Frags +

Schiit Magni amp/ Schiit Modi dac for $100 each. Spend your remaining budget on the best headphones you can afford (Sennheiser HD598, $200).

Schiit Magni amp/ Schiit Modi dac for $100 each. Spend your remaining budget on the best headphones you can afford (Sennheiser HD598, $200).
20
#20
1 Frags +

sennheiser hd600, denon d2000, beyerdynamic dt880 all excellent choice

Also don't cheap out on a DAC/amp amazing DACs will make mediocre headphones sound amazing

sennheiser hd600, denon d2000, beyerdynamic dt880 all excellent choice

Also don't cheap out on a DAC/amp amazing DACs will make mediocre headphones sound amazing
21
#21
0 Frags +
MasterKuniSchiit Magni amp/ Schiit Modi dac for $100 each. Spend your remaining budget on the best headphones you can afford (Sennheiser HD598, $200).

Spending $100 on a DAC for $200 headphones is not wise.

Rickamazing DACs will make mediocre headphones sound amazing

Can you give an example, please? Unless you meant to say amp. I would not suggest buying a DAC more expensive than about $40, for example the Behringer UCA202 or Stoner Acoustics UD100/110/120.

[quote=MasterKuni]Schiit Magni amp/ Schiit Modi dac for $100 each. Spend your remaining budget on the best headphones you can afford (Sennheiser HD598, $200).[/quote]
Spending $100 on a DAC for $200 headphones is not wise.

[quote=Rick]amazing DACs will make mediocre headphones sound amazing[/quote]
Can you give an example, please? Unless you meant to say amp. I would not suggest buying a DAC more expensive than about $40, for example the Behringer UCA202 or Stoner Acoustics UD100/110/120.
22
#22
serveme.tf
-1 Frags +

Before you spend a bunch of cash on some crazy DAC or soundcard:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733-19.html

Before you spend a bunch of cash on some crazy DAC or soundcard:
[url=http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733-19.html]http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733-19.html[/url]
23
#23
0 Frags +

@atmo my friend has a Simaudio Moon 100D/Wooaudio headphone amp and I've brought over various medicore headphones I've used through the years like sennheiser hd515s, hd202, sony mbrv6, and some JBL

These headphones were not hard to drive, the highest impedance being 80ohm.. Which compared to my hd600 300 ohm was nothing. But the simaudio really performed

I was used to hearing these headphones on a udac2 which was a decent DAC, after hearing these on my boys simaudio was unreal, ranges opened up I was able to hear and decipher between sounds and instruments much more easily

Now I use an ibasso d7 with hd600s.

Really excellent DAC/amps are underrated, you don't need to spend more than $600 and it will last a lifetime if you are really serious or into recording etc

Also don't buy a PCI sound card it will pick up all emi and sound from the fans and spinning things in your case crippling the sound. Inside a "gaming" PC is not a place to process sound lol

edit: yes I meant DAC/amp combo in my post oops.

@atmo my friend has a Simaudio Moon 100D/Wooaudio headphone amp and I've brought over various medicore headphones I've used through the years like sennheiser hd515s, hd202, sony mbrv6, and some JBL

These headphones were not hard to drive, the highest impedance being 80ohm.. Which compared to my hd600 300 ohm was nothing. But the simaudio really performed

I was used to hearing these headphones on a udac2 which was a decent DAC, after hearing these on my boys simaudio was unreal, ranges opened up I was able to hear and decipher between sounds and instruments much more easily

Now I use an ibasso d7 with hd600s.

Really excellent DAC/amps are underrated, you don't need to spend more than $600 and it will last a lifetime if you are really serious or into recording etc

Also don't buy a PCI sound card it will pick up all emi and sound from the fans and spinning things in your case crippling the sound. Inside a "gaming" PC is not a place to process sound lol

edit: yes I meant DAC/amp combo in my post oops.
24
#24
4 Frags +
Rick@atmo my friend has a Simaudio Moon 100D and I've brought over various medicore headphones I've used through the years like sennheiser hd515s, hd202, sony mbrv6, and some JBL

I was used to hearing these headphones on a udac2 which was a decent DAC, after hearing these on my boys simaudio was unreal, ranges opened up I was able to hear and decipher between sounds and instruments much more easily

Now I use an ibasso d7 with hd600s.

Really excellent DACs are underrated, you don't need to spend more than $600 and it will last a lifetime if you are really serious or into recording etc

Also don't buy a PCI sound card it will pick up all emi and sound from the fans and spinning things in your case crippling the sound. Inside a "gaming" PC is not a place to process sound lol

A good DAC isn't going to make your headphones any better than they're capable of being. It also doesn't need to cost more than a few hundred dollars. Anything more than that, you're paying for features, not sound quality. That money should be spent on amplification and headphones, not a dac.

[quote=Rick]@atmo my friend has a Simaudio Moon 100D and I've brought over various medicore headphones I've used through the years like sennheiser hd515s, hd202, sony mbrv6, and some JBL

I was used to hearing these headphones on a udac2 which was a decent DAC, after hearing these on my boys simaudio was unreal, ranges opened up I was able to hear and decipher between sounds and instruments much more easily

Now I use an ibasso d7 with hd600s.

Really excellent DACs are underrated, you don't need to spend more than $600 and it will last a lifetime if you are really serious or into recording etc

Also don't buy a PCI sound card it will pick up all emi and sound from the fans and spinning things in your case crippling the sound. Inside a "gaming" PC is not a place to process sound lol[/quote]

A good DAC isn't going to make your headphones any better than they're capable of being. It also doesn't need to cost more than a few hundred dollars. Anything more than that, you're paying for features, not sound quality. That money should be spent on amplification and headphones, not a dac.
25
#25
0 Frags +

Yao, Beyerdynamic DT 150 user here, 100% recommend these, got them for 250€ on amazon, they're pretty big but extremely comfortable, great sound, exceptional bass, 10/10 would use again.

Yao, Beyerdynamic DT 150 user here, 100% recommend these, got them for 250€ on amazon, they're pretty big but extremely comfortable, great sound, exceptional bass, 10/10 would use again.
26
#26
1 Frags +
SideshowI just got a wad of fat cash

http://i.imgur.com/c2YT3Eb.jpg

[quote=Sideshow]I just got a wad of fat cash[/quote]

[img]http://i.imgur.com/c2YT3Eb.jpg[/img]
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